PvP Balance

[Capzy]

From my experience, I find pvp to be very balanced. Most of the people complaining about imbalance are people that are not 25/26 and are playing twink characters. I will share to you why I find pvp balanced.

Rogues:
Many people complain about the over-poweredness of a rogue's aimed shot. It seems only fair that they have such a powerful skill, they do not have any damage mitigating skills other than an upgraded razor blade, which only provides a chance to evade attacks, it is not certainty. In every game, rogues are the top-notch 1v1 players and I do not believe that this should change just because people cry out imbalance. Catch a rogue off-guard in a group fight and your chances to win the fight are much higher.

Warriors:
The complaint about warriors is that they do not do enough damage as well as their shield invulnerability, well my question is, why would you choose a warrior for damage in the first place? Warriors are the tanking class and are an essential asset in a team. They are meant to be at the front line of the battles, absorbing damage for their team to pew pew away from behind them, it is only fitting that they have a spell that allows them to be invulnerable, otherwise they may as well just be a strength-stacked rogue. As for damage, would it really be fair for someone to have 4k health doing 800 crits and being able to be invulnerable, with unlimited mana from vengeful blood? I think not.

Mages:
"Plz buff mage am 2 weak for teh 1v1 and am die 1 shot to rouge." Mages are given AoE spells for a reason, utilize them. Mages are clearly not a 1v1 class, the assortment of their spells clearly dictates that. They are extremely powerful if used right, all you need to do is stand behind the beefy meat-shield warriors or the evasive rogues and nuke away. "Oh but Capzy what about getting one shot?" Use your shield, even other rogues can get one shot by another rogue so we're not just singling out mages here.

Guys, capture the flag is a group effort, many of you are asking for changes based off of 1v1s which is ludicrous because they give you 4 other teammates for a reason, utilize them.

[blakadder]

Oh wow! People we found common sense and reason in one nicely assembled post!

The only problem with the final statement is that the awards for PvP are based on number of kills and number of flags scored thus promoting farming of both and not actually playing a team game of capturing flags.

[Limsi]

Finally! You deserve my thanks.

[SkyDagger]

All you said is true .. for a new member in forum it looks like your a legendary forum-er already, you found all the things that make itself balanced :)

[grazier07]

Seriously rogue balanced?? Defense with almost near to tanks.. 800-900 full eqpmt with dogde near tp almost 30% with just different about 100 def to tanks?? Really?? Well lets just say tanks definately deserved higher def.. ok fine rogues and mage with highger dps/dmg.. but might consider lower their def though.. to let say 500-600?? Then I will consider pvp balanced.. its my though maybe wrong or maybe if u are good enough to think wise because rouges nowadays can tank 2 top warrior easily and kill em.. just nonsense armor..

[Mysticaleagle]

All you said is true .. for a new member in forum it looks like your a legendary forum-er already, you found all the things that make itself balanced :)

27408

Just kidding around. I agree with the OP.

[SkyDagger]

27408

Just kidding around. I agree with the OP.

LOL :hororr:

[Capzy]

Seriously rogue balanced?? Defense with almost near to tanks.. 800-900 full eqpmt with dogde near tp almost 30% with just different about 100 def to tanks?? Really?? Well lets just say tanks definately deserved higher def.. ok fine rogues and mage with highger dps/dmg.. but might consider lower their def though.. to let say 500-600?? Then I will consider pvp balanced.. its my though maybe wrong or maybe if u are good enough to think wise because rouges nowadays can tank 2 top warrior easily and kill em.. just nonsense armor..

First off, at the end of your rant it's "rogue" not rouge. Second, how else do you think a rogue is supposed to survive? You can't just neglect armor entirely. Rogues at 16 can have from 400-500ish armor, and can still receive critical hits up to 900+. You're telling me that you want a level 26 rogue to have 500 armor, who already takes 1.9k crits with the standing armor that they have, and change that to about 2.4k? Okay I like where this is going. How about let's just take away aimed shot because it's so over-powered? That would work. Or actually, let's just delete rogues because they can't be fixed.. Are you following? Good, keep up. If deleting the rogues doesn't work, STS should just remove the game completely from the app store and delete all of our characters. Actually this all sounds quite ridiculous, how about cope with the game or stop playing?

[Mysticaleagle]

First off, at the end of your rant it's "rogue" not rouge.

Is provoking that necessary? Perhaps a more friendly post wouldn't ''turn the lighter on'', like my grandma would say. ;)

[SkyDagger]

Seriously rogue balanced?? Defense with almost near to tanks.. 800-900 full eqpmt with dogde near tp almost 30% with just different about 100 def to tanks?? Really?? Well lets just say tanks definately deserved higher def.. ok fine rogues and mage with highger dps/dmg.. but might consider lower their def though.. to let say 500-600?? Then I will consider pvp balanced.. its my though maybe wrong or maybe if u are good enough to think wise because rouges nowadays can tank 2 top warrior easily and kill em.. just nonsense armor..

Yep def almost near to tanks with full equipments. but not all rogue have a gold to buy it or plat. Lets say you have hp that can increase until 5k while we doesnt have any buff skill like that. . You have invulnerability skill upgrade with matching regen , we dont have invulnerability but we have a regen in a short period. You have axe throw that can debuff us and the crit stack will lost, we dont have. you have a stunning skill that has a great chance while us have low which on charging normal attack. The thing that we have common is lack of mana. once we run out one will die for sure.

making us 500 - 600 def o.O oh my we are dead meat on it. 2 war vs 1 rogue? maybe it just happen that the 2 war doesnt have a good gear and the rogue has.

Conclusion : i think the balanced will happen on lvl 36 cap which all of us have arcane weapon. but since all of arcane and mythic will be hard to get.

[Capzy]

Is provoking that necessary? Perhaps a more friendly post wouldn't ''turn the lighter on'', like my grandma would say. ;)

Haha it was somewhat uncalled for, but I just feel like if someone is trying to get a point across to me then the grammar & diction should be proper, I'm hardheaded. :grumpy:

[White Paws]

He spelt it right at the start, it was just a typo later.

But regarding the OP, I can't say much because I have only played more than once on a warrior (and that was only to lvl 14, I'm still into PL) and I only have 80-90k to experiment with. But the classes seem balanced enough to enjoy gameplay. They will never be perfect. Personally I enjoy being a pure tank class. I levelled only tanking skills right from the start and equipment was based on stats and armour, not dps. I solo'd levelling (which was slow but easy and cheep on the pots) and with a team behind me, lets just say people were quick to party up. If you want to be a lone wolf in pvp, it sounds like rogue is the class for you. But have a good go at other rolls too. Be a team player and just play for fun every now and then. When I played CoD we called it playing objective and playing for kills. Playing objective in this case is building your class to do its roll and benefiting the whole team. Not just farming dem kills/captures.

[Syylent]

From my experience, I find pvp to be very balanced. Most of the people complaining about imbalance are people that are not 25/26 and are playing twink characters. I will share to you why I find pvp balanced.

Rogues:
Many people complain about the over-poweredness of a rogue's aimed shot. It seems only fair that they have such a powerful skill, they do not have any damage mitigating skills other than an upgraded razor blade, which only provides a chance to evade attacks, it is not certainty. In every game, rogues are the top-notch 1v1 players and I do not believe that this should change just because people cry out imbalance. Catch a rogue off-guard in a group fight and your chances to win the fight are much higher.

Warriors:
The complaint about warriors is that they do not do enough damage as well as their shield invulnerability, well my question is, why would you choose a warrior for damage in the first place? Warriors are the tanking class and are an essential asset in a team. They are meant to be at the front line of the battles, absorbing damage for their team to pew pew away from behind them, it is only fitting that they have a spell that allows them to be invulnerable, otherwise they may as well just be a strength-stacked rogue. As for damage, would it really be fair for someone to have 4k health doing 800 crits and being able to be invulnerable, with unlimited mana from vengeful blood? I think not.

Mages:
"Plz buff mage am 2 weak for teh 1v1 and am die 1 shot to rouge." Mages are given AoE spells for a reason, utilize them. Mages are clearly not a 1v1 class, the assortment of their spells clearly dictates that. They are extremely powerful if used right, all you need to do is stand behind the beefy meat-shield warriors or the evasive rogues and nuke away. "Oh but Capzy what about getting one shot?" Use your shield, even other rogues can get one shot by another rogue so we're not just singling out mages here.

Guys, capture the flag is a group effort, many of you are asking for changes based off of 1v1s which is ludicrous because they give you 4 other teammates for a reason, utilize them.


Rogues also have their little blue circle of protection if spec'd for. Razor is not their only defense mechanism. Their health packs up their survivability greatly. AS is a very powerful. Too powerful? I am 50/50 on it.

Warrior's VB does not guarantee mana. On my warrior, I am out of mana quite a bit. Invuln last 2 seconds.

Clock, stun and lightning bolt make me cringe against a good sorc. When playing them they do seem quite low on the food chain. Still they are a blast to play until you die a lot.

It is easier for a rouge to accept being one shot since they have the ability to do it.

CTF is the only PvP out currently. Yes it is team based, I guess. In the future I would hope that there would be more than this one map. Why not balance now than wait? Balance is balance. I don't think anyone ever said it would be easy.

Basically a pug team match consists of one team relentlessly hammering 1 or 2 players until they quit. You really can't call that CTF.

[Darko]

From my experience, I find pvp to be very balanced. Most of the people complaining about imbalance are people that are not 25/26 and are playing twink characters. I will share to you why I find pvp balanced.

Rogues:
Many people complain about the over-poweredness of a rogue's aimed shot. It seems only fair that they have such a powerful skill, they do not have any damage mitigating skills other than an upgraded razor blade, which only provides a chance to evade attacks, it is not certainty. In every game, rogues are the top-notch 1v1 players and I do not believe that this should change just because people cry out imbalance. Catch a rogue off-guard in a group fight and your chances to win the fight are much higher.

Warriors:
The complaint about warriors is that they do not do enough damage as well as their shield invulnerability, well my question is, why would you choose a warrior for damage in the first place? Warriors are the tanking class and are an essential asset in a team. They are meant to be at the front line of the battles, absorbing damage for their team to pew pew away from behind them, it is only fitting that they have a spell that allows them to be invulnerable, otherwise they may as well just be a strength-stacked rogue. As for damage, would it really be fair for someone to have 4k health doing 800 crits and being able to be invulnerable, with unlimited mana from vengeful blood? I think not.

Mages:
"Plz buff mage am 2 weak for teh 1v1 and am die 1 shot to rouge." Mages are given AoE spells for a reason, utilize them. Mages are clearly not a 1v1 class, the assortment of their spells clearly dictates that. They are extremely powerful if used right, all you need to do is stand behind the beefy meat-shield warriors or the evasive rogues and nuke away. "Oh but Capzy what about getting one shot?" Use your shield, even other rogues can get one shot by another rogue so we're not just singling out mages here.

Guys, capture the flag is a group effort, many of you are asking for changes based off of 1v1s which is ludicrous because they give you 4 other teammates for a reason, utilize them.

No defense migating attacks, what do u vall having the highest dodge percentage our of any class? What so you call having the highest healt h % skill to revive? Warriors can't absorb. That much as a rouge can oblirate a tabk in less than 4 seconds...thats not absorbing anything...a warrior cannot kill another warrior period... damage should be increased....mages are aoe and will not be the best at 1 vs1.. we can bump up their health a little.....the percentage rouges are closer to tanks health than tanks are to a rouges dps....

[Weagledan]

Oh wow! People we found common sense and reason in one nicely assembled post!

The only problem with the final statement is that the awards for PvP are based on number of kills and number of flags scored thus promoting farming of both and not actually playing a team game of capturing flags.

You beat me to it here Blak - maybe they need to create a 'Number of Team Wins' achievement or something similar to promote balanced teams, and give characters (read: tanks) a reason to play if they're not getting the Kills achievements

[Kaarataka]

I agree with almost everything you posted. PVP/CTF is nearly perfectly balanced. My only counter is the horn skill for warriors that I clearly outline in this post (http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?92229-A-long-time-legends-player-s-recommendations-for-PVP-CTF). The issue with horn is that it gives the entire team invulnerability. My issue is only with possible team diversity being an option in future tournaments. With the current skill the best team will be all pro tank teams. With 2 sec+ 2sec + 2sec+ 2 sec+ 2 sec = possible 10 sec of continuous invulnerability the obvious favor lies with all warrior teams. Now I'm not saying only take this away. That would hurt warriors even more than the previous patch did. If this skill is nerfed, there should be compensation on other skills to allow warriors to either put out more damage or buff defensive abilities in another way thats not invulnerability.

Thanks for posting your thoughts on the matter. The only way devs and players will understand the issues or non-issues is by discussing them. The more that engage in the conversation the better.

Happy hunting and cya in CTF
Zhuangzhe/Karaataka

[Bless]

Agree withnall points. GJ cappy ;)

Btw im lilbless

[Lady_Pebbles]

Mages are build for CC. In PvP they need better survivability. The Shield skill needs to be fixed/tweaked, it breaks very easily (with just 500dmg). The AS skill can break it and one hit kill Mages at the same time (happened to my toon a lot). However, pets help Mages a lot in PvE as well as PvP. Those with dodge or higher hp, or preferably both, do help out against those one shots. Its all about balancing your build so that you get less one hit kills without sacrificing too much. Still, the survivability is lower than the rest, super squishie.. Even with Heal, it benefits the team mates better than the caster! Smh.. So yeah the Shield & Heal skills need to be tweaked a lot.

[Energizeric]

in response to the OP, the problem is that most warriors and rogues do not play as a team. I can play for 3 hours before finding a team that actually sticks together. When I join games all of my team are usually scattered throughout the maze. And if I finally catch up with a warrior or rogue, I am usually unable to even stay close as they leap or jump away from me and I am too slow to keep up. So 90% of my fights are indeed 1-on-1.

As a well skilled mage with top gear, I manage to keep a positive K/D ratio, but I know if I were a rogue I would probably have a 10/1 K/D ratio instead of it just barely being positive.

You say that CTF is a team sport, but I don't see any statistics or leaderboards for that. And since players care about stats and leaderboards, 1-on-1 is where it is. Perhaps if they want CTF to be a team sport, they should make some statistics for that.

[Caiahar]

in response to the OP, the problem is that most warriors and rogues do not play as a team. I can play for 3 hours before finding a team that actually sticks together. When I join games all of my team are usually scattered throughout the maze. And if I finally catch up with a warrior or rogue, I am usually unable to even stay close as they leap or jump away from me and I am too slow to keep up. So 90% of my fights are indeed 1-on-1.

As a well skilled mage with top gear, I manage to keep a positive K/D ratio, but I know if I were a rogue I would probably have a 10/1 K/D ratio instead of it just barely being positive.

You say that CTF is a team sport, but I don't see any statistics or leaderboards for that. And since players care about stats and leaderboards, 1-on-1 is where it is. Perhaps if they want CTF to be a team sport, they should make some statistics for that.

i hate, hate, HATE THE INVULNERABILITY! Exactly, 1 sec shield for whole team. And i also have one problem.

SORCERERS HAVE NO REAL BUFFS.
Only dodge from gust, which is useless in pvp, and useless for sorcerer. Razor gives some good buffs to rogue. Vengeful Blood/Horn of Renew/Rally Cry for warrior...for sorcerer, the shield doesnt go up with lvl, just 500 dmg, its gone. Rogues and EASILY break through that. And the 2 sec invul doesnt seem to work..

[Darko]

Warriors invincibility -2-2-2-2-2. With five (if done correctly whixh most use at same time) howver 5 rogues can do 5 aimed shots at same time.....thats 25 aimed shots in ten sec....I can't believe people talk about defebse stacking when offense is stacked all the time...ans why nerf the best thing in elite....

[Bless]

Warriors invincibility -2-2-2-2-2. With five (if done correctly whixh most use at same time) howver 5 rogues can do 5 aimed shots at same time.....thats 25 aimed shots in ten sec....I can't believe people talk about defebse stacking when offense is stacked all the time...ans why nerf the best thing in elite.... why are you Comparing an offensive skill vs a defensive skill? Seriously?!

[Bootydots]

Imbalances: Rogues can sit in the back and 1 shot any guy your workin on killing, AKA Leech's. A group of 2+ geared warriors should not make a game unbearable for the opposing team without a warr. Their Heal/invulnerability to the entire team is just ridiculous seriously unbeatable if timed between the warrs correctly. And also im not entirely sure where your getting this information on sorc's. I get more kills doin 1v1's then i do runnin with a friendly rogue on my back kill stealing... But anywayz Like a couple of others said this will never be a team game unless Wins are added into our pvp history/ achievements.

[blakadder]

You do understand that if the only objective and reward is winning the game all that you perceive as imbalances wouldn't be a problem!

Getting rid of awards for kills would create strategic thinking and promote teamplay in a match where the objective is to push thru enemy lines and secure the flags for the win. So you can stack invulnerability as much as you like with 5 warriors since you can occupy the team with 4 players while the 5th flags and secures the win!

[Bullox]

I play Main Sorc and i play Warri too. I think PvP is good balanced.
The only thing which take the fun away is that stupid Warri invulnerability shield!
Make it only for casting Warri and its perfect.
And make it soon, its really time for it!!!!!!!!!!!

[Cero]

I play Main Sorc and i play Warri too. I think PvP is good balanced.
The only thing which take the fun away is that stupid Warri invulnerability shield!
Make it only for casting Warri and its perfect.
And make it soon, its really time for it!!!!!!!!!!!

nah, a warrior who cant shield up is good as dead. Just give those class what they want, if you dont want sorc to be nerf.
remember warrior's cry = nerf.

[Bullox]

@Cero...i know that, i play Warri...Warri should have his shield....but only the Warri, not his Group....

[Cero]

i was kidding in there, guess i fail on jokes.

[Excuses]

Every class should have strength and weakness, and needs to cover their weakness while fighting with strength.

So I think it is comparable, HoR vs AS / low dmg vs low health. Which is pretty fair for me.

5 AS can kill one warrior at a time if they shoot it together and even 5 warrior make some mistakes on timing of shield. So it's not about skills, but how to use.

So you shouldn't nerf or ban warrior's heal and rogue's dmg(as long as it is reasonable. Why is it ok to make +2k dmg, but not 2sec shield?).


As long as CTF awards kills, this argument will continue for good.
Never seen a CTF tournament, but kill tournament.
Flag has no meaning but farming for LB.

We need some change on party system (ex. to limit the number of class for each room by 2) or CTF itself, not from classes IMO.

Class balance is impossible. Every class should have their unique strength and weakness and fight with them.
So, as always I said, if each class can fight 1on1 fair, it will be class balance.
Balance in CTF? It depends on your party because it is team game! It will never be balanced.

[Bullox]

......and again!!!
I dont wanna nerf Rogues Aimed Shot!!!!
I dont wanna nerf Warris heal and shield complete away!
I say: make the Shield! (not the heal) only for the casting Warri.
At time u dont need very good Gear or Skill for win, u only need more Warris in ur Team than the other Team...
That damn shield makes PvP boring and unbalanced.....
If the shield is only for the Warri himself, all other classes have to manage their health and heal to help the group.
That bring flexibility back to game and gives Teams whithout a Warrior a Chance to win!

[Kracker jak]

From my experience, I find pvp to be very balanced. Most of the people complaining about imbalance are people that are not 25/26 and are playing twink characters. I will share to you why I find pvp balanced.

Rogues:
Many people complain about the over-poweredness of a rogue's aimed shot. It seems only fair that they have such a powerful skill, they do not have any damage mitigating skills other than an upgraded razor blade, which only provides a chance to evade attacks, it is not certainty. In every game, rogues are the top-notch 1v1 players and I do not believe that this should change just because people cry out imbalance. Catch a rogue off-guard in a group fight and your chances to win the fight are much higher.

Warriors:
The complaint about warriors is that they do not do enough damage as well as their shield invulnerability, well my question is, why would you choose a warrior for damage in the first place? Warriors are the tanking class and are an essential asset in a team. They are meant to be at the front line of the battles, absorbing damage for their team to pew pew away from behind them, it is only fitting that they have a spell that allows them to be invulnerable, otherwise they may as well just be a strength-stacked rogue. As for damage, would it really be fair for someone to have 4k health doing 800 crits and being able to be invulnerable, with unlimited mana from vengeful blood? I think not.

Mages:
"Plz buff mage am 2 weak for teh 1v1 and am die 1 shot to rouge." Mages are given AoE spells for a reason, utilize them. Mages are clearly not a 1v1 class, the assortment of their spells clearly dictates that. They are extremely powerful if used right, all you need to do is stand behind the beefy meat-shield warriors or the evasive rogues and nuke away. "Oh but Capzy what about getting one shot?" Use your shield, even other rogues can get one shot by another rogue so we're not just singling out mages here.

Guys, capture the flag is a group effort, many of you are asking for changes based off of 1v1s which is ludicrous because they give you 4 other teammates for a reason, utilize them.

1 big prob u say rogues balanced.
how so my rogue has 40+ dodge constant 60+ when buffed with razor and I dont have mali :-0 then I would buff 70+ dodge. which means my def doesnt matter u dont hit me even tho my def is 800+ usin lvl 25 gear I can kill tank in 3-4 hits as longas they dont get shield on then gotta wait n do same 3-4 hits when shield down. mages 1-2shots 2-3 shots whith shield.

hence the rogue OP title

[The Darkling]

i agree with Capzy

[Cremated]

Warrior- 2 much hp
Rogue- Trash pack to op
Sorcerer- NEED TO BE MOrE OP