Devs, The game will be dying

[rorolf1]

Hi devs,

There are a few things I need to point out for AO3.

1. Casual players.

I saw so many good feedbacks on AO3 thread and I feel really surprised. As casual player, I think AO3 is unfair for us. With not enough money and not enough power, we are hard to take boss down. It seems you just want to keep your crazy fans, but you will lose most of the casual players. it is way too hard to them to do AO3.

Losing casual players means dying of the game.

I suggest at least make part of AO3 bosses easy to farm. So those casual players can have some fun at least. When they completely lost confidence on AO3 boss, it is too bad.

2. Extremely unbalanced armor.

At lv45, armor is good indicator and I can feel difference of 10 more armor when facing boss. But now, who cares about armor?! Anyway, its one hit even after having potion. It seems the lv50 armors are pretty useless.

Please consider. thx

[Dizko]

I do agree that casual players should be able to play aswell however it is even more important that the game is a multi-player game, requiring more than one person to complete a level.

The source of the entire negative feedback of AO3 is that people for so long on this game have required no strategy at all. Swamps was pretty good, but AO3 is very good - giving us a challenge, not necessarily requiring lots of time - but definatly requiring thought and teamwork.

It is a difficult balance. If they make a certain section easy to farm then the hardcore players will farm and farm it until the items are extremely common.
We are yet to see much of the new armour. So lets wait and see what happens.

[Drewl90]

i kind of agree that it's hard for casual players.
i already spent nearly 150k on elixirs and pots. =/.. shouldnt be this way.

[Dizko]

AO3 is very straight forward when you follow the traditional MMO team and tactics model.

Tank, Healer, DPS.
Tank goes first, DPS second, Healer stays alive. Everyone watch the healers back, healer watches tanks back.

And please, before each boss fight - talk about it first.

[Drewl90]

well yeah. but then again there aren't any parties or guilds available in PL. so some of the casual players find it hard to join groups that are experienced enough to do that.

but overall, i like ao3. i hope they never change it

[Dizko]

well yeah. but then again there aren't any parties or guilds available in PL. so some of the casual players find it hard to join groups that are experienced enough to do that.

Great point.

Perhaps this is the problem.

[TheLaw]

I agree, and the part where you cant join ao3 maps makes the situation all the more worse. The warrior armor is far more less powered than mages(Not saying that the mage armor is overpowered) but i think all warriors and mages should have nearly the same stats, and I think the Avians deserve some special armor to be fair. And a 1handed Gun and shield or something.

[Furrawn]

It's crazy and too much for anyone but the players who are sellers and have more than a few hundred thousand. It's so wrong that AO3 is making it so that only farmers can afford to play. I don't want it nerfed, but something needs to change like yesterday. Elixirs should absolutely never be a must-have even for a boss fight. As for teamwork- when the campaign is so against traditional mages and birds that it's like I said before, it's not teamwork when your team is dead.

Drew- you spent 150K playing AO3 but you hope they never change it?

[Dizko]

Again, elixers are not needed.

Go grab a healer, a tank, and 3 DPS'ers. Then go fight Gorgux.

But before you do, discuss it.

"Okay guys, turn on your volume cause when he growls that means he is about to do his huge attack. At that point, quickly grab one of the green orbs. Healer, you stay over there - Damage dealer's keep pushing him into this corner and Tank hold aggro"

And then go into the fight.

[Arjun]

Point and Point - Was thinking much the same thing myself of late. Used to be Pickup and Play. . . if u gotta go walk the dog then go walk the dog and get back to it. Now day's it's more like the dog got's to go walk itself. It take's almost 20 minutes to get anywhere next to a boss and even then - 99.99% of the time you get loot which isn't really what you wanted.

Which is Great - If you have the time, patients, wherewithal to stand around town waiting for that ever so critical double coincidence of wants.

The single most exciting thing about AO3 (in my humble opinion) is the chance one might score that mad awesome spacesuit. But try as we might - most of us will never. - That's been sorted out between the traders and the dev's.

So can there not be an 'orange' or 'green' variant on the same. Spacesuit. Just as we have 'green' Kopesh of blood now. Looks same as the lvl 45 'pink' one. But is diff in stats for sure.

Just to keep us casual, or otherwise committed, players somewhat satisfied with our unimportant little selves.

And I have met a whole bunch of people in-game. Some single parents, some college going students - all who can't commit time to farm. On the other end of the spectrum you have groups of five people fortunate enough to know each other and all like the same game (quintuple coincidence of wants) living/working/studying out of the same area - who have more than a lot of time (esp combined) to procure better gear/equips. I've seen it happen in Vxynar's layer - when the Helm went viral. Crew of four marched in in a little line (I was already fighting a random boss spawn - before the update regularized it), marched up to boss, killed him as one, and marched out.

Few day's later I read an article about a game called 'starcraft' and how they got professional teams and such - and couldn't help thinking to myself that I had just seen one in action. More or less.

Still - the biggest point of difference between the purists of any MMO genre and us regular types who just want to kill a couple of minutes having fun remains - How much Loot is too Much!

And I can't speak for anybody else, while I am totally satisfied with AO3 and my whole PL experience so far, the only thing that would make it better is if . . . .lost my track for a second. Guess there is no one fix. Only Hope is the Auction House. So we can at least exchange things for a reasonable amount of gold. Compare offers more conveniently. Is what the forums are for no doubt. But hundreds of players still haven't logged in on the forums. Even still - in AO3 - I find myself telling people that there is a forum and a traders market.

Yeah - It's all about the loot I guess. In summary. No Spacesuit for me yet. And I spent about as much time as I could set aside on it. But like I said - never on a commute or in a pick up and play sort of frame of mind. That's what it used to be way back when - early days, early days. Good times. . . good times.

[Furrawn]

Again, elixers are not needed.

Go grab a healer, a tank, and 3 DPS'ers. Then go fight Gorgux.

But before you do, discuss it.

"Okay guys, turn on your volume cause when he growls that means he is about to do his huge attack. At that point, quickly grab one of the green orbs. Healer, you stay over there - Damage dealer's keep pushing him into this corner and Tank hold aggro"

And then go into the fight.

????
Gorgux is a breeze...
I had to buy elixir for the Galactic Overlord. Not Gorgux. He's easy.

[Dizko]

Oh right.

But do you not see that fighting the highest boss in the game with old gear and 1-5 levels short of the max level is supposed to be difficult/near impossible?

It's just my opinion but I think that the toughest boss should require players to level up first before being able to take him down. It should feel like an accomplishment.

[Drewl90]

holy mother of babies arjun. i didn't even bother reading that haha. wayyy too long. :P



It's crazy and too much for anyone but the players who are sellers and have more than a few hundred thousand. It's so wrong that AO3 is making it so that only farmers can afford to play. I don't want it nerfed, but something needs to change like yesterday. Elixirs should absolutely never be a must-have even for a boss fight. As for teamwork- when the campaign is so against traditional mages and birds that it's like I said before, it's not teamwork when your team is dead.

Drew- you spent 150K playing AO3 but you hope they never change it?

haha well. i must say that it was all to do for leveling my character up with all the exp elixirs and such. (died too many times) it is a HUGE amount i know, but i know that soon many of us will not need elixirs anymore.

There are already strategies for The keeper, the purple boss(don't know what's his name), and the overlord. It's just a matter of time before people get used to it. A

I still feel that casual players are affected badly though.

[Arjun]

holy mother of babies arjun. i didn't even bother reading that haha. wayyy too long. :P

Brother Drewl - I does have a tendency to wax eloquent I admit's. . . is hard to stick to the points thinking like a mile a minute. . . . cause I'm a spaceman. Or about to be certified. Soon as I loots tht Suits.

[TheLaw]

whats the new tactic to gurgox? Where do you find "The Keeper" or his specific name, I need to know the tactic for all Ao3 bosses, Please and Thank you :D

[Drewl90]

whats the new tactic to gurgox? Where do you find "The Keeper" or his specific name, I need to know the tactic for all Ao3 bosses, Please and Thank you :D

You find "the Keeper" in the "crush the keeper" level.
You find "Overlord" in the 5th lvl(not sure what it's called)
--> both tactics are found somewhere below this post

and btw the gurgox ur referring to is the purple boss is that right?

[TheLaw]

I dont see it below your post? Thanks for the Tips though :D Does anyone know where The Gurgox Eye of Cosmos, Mirage Robes of Cosmos and Jacobs Mage Hat of Cosmos Drop? Really would like to get them xP

[Drewl90]

I dont see it below your post? Thanks for the Tips though :D Does anyone know where The Gurgox Eye of Cosmos, Mirage Robes of Cosmos and Jacobs Mage Hat of Cosmos Drop? Really would like to get them xP

haha okay fine. not below this post, but below this THREAD. :P

[Trollpackan]

I am more and more leaning towards the group of players who believe that we need to level up and get some better gear before we can deal with the overlord in a more "cheap" way. I will not complain about the toughness of the bosses before I'm 50 with epic loot... :D

And I think many things regarding the casual players not having good gear and all that, will change now when they will put in the consignment shop. Should be great!

[icantgetkills]

Tank, Healer, DPS.
Tank goes first, DPS second, Healer stays alive. Everyone watch the healers back, healer watches tanks back.

Yes if healer and birds the tank elixirs didn't get 1 hit buy overlord I'm a pally to stay alive I need to spam mana pots if I have shield up or spam health pots then I die i don't even get time to revive or heal or anything

[jonboy]

I have to say in some boss fights, I have one finger constantly spamming health pots, and spamming heals interspersed with hitting mana pots, outputting zero damage as a paly in a poor group.

However this is just temporary as I get used to the bosses maps and strats AND more importantly everyone else does.

AO3 can't be played whilst walking the dog.

[Arjun]

Sadly no. . . The dog has got's to wait.

[Raxie]

here is a simple solution.
DEVS, MAKE THE DAMN POTIONS NOT SO DAMN EXPENSIVE! i mean seriously, 1.5k a potion just so that most people will buy the potion by plat? i think that's just being a bit too greedy... maybe 500 gold per potion.
there is also another solution. make gold easier to get; for example when killing enemies or breaking open treasure chests, make it give much more reward money. also, maybe if the boss gets taken down, even more reward money should be given. quests could also give more money.

[Arjun]

here is a simple solution.
DEVS, MAKE THE DAMN POTIONS NOT SO DAMN EXPENSIVE. i mean seriously, 1.5k a potion just so that most people will buy the potion by plat? i think that's just being a bit too greedy... maybe 500 gold per potion.
there is also another solution. make gold easier to get; for example when killing enemies or breaking open treasure chests, make it give much more reward money. also, maybe if the boss gets taken down, even more reward money should be given. quests could also give more money.

Was thinking the same. . .had built up a gold stash of some 100k plus just picking on Vanx for that uber-rare helm of his. Not even two day's in AO3 and is all gone. Almost all gone. I'm thinking - What !! Where!?! OMG I hav been robbed!!! WHo Stole It!?!

[TheLaw]

LOL, i kinda agree on this, wasted 15k just to kill Overlord, real money-wasting method.

[jonboy]

It's the devs way of purging money from the in game economy :)

[Haikus]

here is a simple solution.
DEVS, MAKE THE DAMN POTIONS NOT SO DAMN EXPENSIVE! i mean seriously, 1.5k a potion just so that most people will buy the potion by plat? i think that's just being a bit too greedy... maybe 500 gold per potion.
there is also another solution. make gold easier to get; for example when killing enemies or breaking open treasure chests, make it give much more reward money. also, maybe if the boss gets taken down, even more reward money should be given. quests could also give more money.

No, 1 potion (mana or health) is 44 gold.Your thinking of Ellie in town but that goes 100 potions for 1.5k.If you look at it thats a steal. 44*100= 4,400. I think its fine and I'm not rich myself,only 28k.I do agree on the getting more gold part though.

[Riccits]

mana and health pots very often u become from chests, but only wenn you have less than 25... i never need to buy it...

[jonboy]

We are talking about armor pots and damage pots.

[SlipperyJim]

We are talking about armor pots and damage pots.
Specifically, I think you're talking about elixirs.

[Arterra]

i am veeeery (very) cheap on elixers, but was forced to with bosses. even so, if i can get away without one i WILL. lost 20k so far... crazy... :P

[jonboy]

Thank you Capt. Obvious :)

Edit in ref to the elixir post before by dumbledore.

[maneut]

The game is not dying, on the contrary.. I think it's alive again.. what's the fun of playing a game when it's too easy or mindless? what's the achievement you get? Yes, I agree it's hard now.. but you feel good and happy when you beat the boss now, right?
Don't give up, think of a way to beat the boss, make some friends.. talk, think, plan and try and try again ;)

[jonboy]

Word dude word.

[Royce]

It's the devs way of purging money from the in game economy :)

I still think this is a bad change. The money in this game is not evenly distributed. Many people, like me, felt there was no reason to hoard gold, so have always sold pinks cheap if not given them away. I have enough to probably get several characters through the game, but that is only because the gold I got form liquidating junk has been building up since April. Many people are not in the same situation. What are the players who have essentially no gold at all supposed to do. I love the challenge. I just think it should be more along the lines of Frozen Nightmares for a level 30, challenging, but survivable even without elixers. Elixers should never be necessary. If they are going to be, then they should cost about 1/10 of what they do now.

My least favorite thing about AO3 is that it is clear I cannot continue to be generous with new players, giving them good deals, or just giving them items. I have to count and hoard my gold now...

[icantgetkills]

I still think this is a bad change. The money in this game is not evenly distributed. Many people, like me, felt there was no reason to hoard gold, so have always sold pinks cheap if not given them away. I have enough to probably get several characters through the game, but that is only because the gold I got form liquidating junk has been building up since April. Many people are not in the same situation. What are the players who have essentially no gold at all supposed to do. I love the challenge. I just think it should be more along the lines of Frozen Nightmares for a level 30, challenging, but survivable even without elixers. Elixers should never be necessary. If they are going to be, then they should cost about 1/10 of what they do now.

My least favorite thing about AO3 is that it is clear I cannot continue to be generous with new players, giving them good deals, or just giving them items. I have to count and hoard my gold now...

Royce iv been playing for about Same time as u just when lost expedition came out and you summed it up in 1 post good job I'm the same i spent 100k sold some items got 80k back then lost it... So iv lost 180k... And the only people who rant complaining Are the tanks well most of em.. Swamps where fun.. That's the difficulty it needs to be lowered to so you don't need elixirs.

[Furrawn]

I still think this is a bad change. The money in this game is not evenly distributed. Many people, like me, felt there was no reason to hoard gold, so have always sold pinks cheap if not given them away. I have enough to probably get several characters through the game, but that is only because the gold I got form liquidating junk has been building up since April. Many people are not in the same situation. What are the players who have essentially no gold at all supposed to do. I love the challenge. I just think it should be more along the lines of Frozen Nightmares for a level 30, challenging, but survivable even without elixers. Elixers should never be necessary. If they are going to be, then they should cost about 1/10 of what they do now.

My least favorite thing about AO3 is that it is clear I cannot continue to be generous with new players, giving them good deals, or just giving them items. I have to count and hoard my gold now...

Amen.

Currently, I'm faced with becoming a farmer, quitting the game, or not leveling my characters...

***Farmers are awesome. Some of my best friends in the game are farmers. It's just not my cup of tea...

[TwinkTastical]

Hi devs,

There are a few things I need to point out for AO3.

1. Casual players.

I saw so many good feedbacks on AO3 thread and I feel really surprised. As casual player, I think AO3 is unfair for us. With not enough money and not enough power, we are hard to take boss down. It seems you just want to keep your crazy fans, but you will lose most of the casual players. it is way too hard to them to do AO3.

Losing casual players means dying of the game.

I suggest at least make part of AO3 bosses easy to farm. So those casual players can have some fun at least. When they completely lost confidence on AO3 boss, it is too bad.

2. Extremely unbalanced armor.

At lv45, armor is good indicator and I can feel difference of 10 more armor when facing boss. But now, who cares about armor?! Anyway, its one hit even after having potion. It seems the lv50 armors are pretty useless.

Please consider. thx

NERFED AO3 TIME! gf skill... this games gonna be a freakin hacknslash

[Furrawn]

NERFED AO3 TIME! gf skill... this games gonna be a freakin hacknslash

Not necessary to nerf it, Twink...
They need to have kills & chests give out an adequate amount of gold... And maybe balance the game for non-strength Mages & birds...

[Futumsh]

Or you could, you know, gear up on the lower bosses while you level to 50, rather than complain about doing content above your level and needing elixirs to do it.

[TwinkTastical]

Not necessary to nerf it, Twink...
They need to have kills & chests give out an adequate amount of gold... And maybe balance the game for non-strength Mages & birds...

SOOO i can farm str8 gold? SWEEEEET, No but srsly, i kinda get bored reading threads by people who play PL while driving and die in a bad car accident...

[TwinkTastical]

Or you could, you know, gear up on the lower bosses while you level to 50, rather than complain about doing content above your level and needing elixirs to do it.

-Loves inital wording-

Im pretty sure dev has a big *** point...

[Furrawn]

Or you could, you know, gear up on the lower bosses while you level to 50, rather than complain about doing content above your level and needing elixirs to do it.

Nice sarcasm.

I paid 20P for a campaign and you want me to be stuck playing the lower levels that are still a huge money drain until I'm a lvl 50? Are you kidding me? This has never been the case in past campaigns.

Your response is hateful and not what I'd expect from a dev...
But, fine if this is how you respond... I quit.

I know now will be the sarcastic response from JustG saying "Can I have your stuff?"
Answer "No."
I'll be on tonight & will give my belongings to my friends.

[Royce]

Or you could, you know, gear up on the lower bosses while you level to 50, rather than complain about doing content above your level and needing elixirs to do it.

Seriously? Because I've found a few level 47 and 48 pinks in the lower levels, and they are only marginally (quite insignificantly really) better than my level 45 gear. Is that gear going to make a difference, like with that extra 2 armor, mages will be able to keep on their feet against bosses? It sounds unlikely. I like the difficulty. I like that the game requires skill. I don't think the frequency of 1-shot kills and then repeated rez spawn kills is a good thing. However, I'm just now finally getting a chance to really get into AO3, so we'll see. I don't want any big nerf, but there seems to be something wrong with a campaign when no one but tanks can make it through without armor pots.

[CanonicalKoi]

My least favorite thing about AO3 is that it is clear I cannot continue to be generous with new players, giving them good deals, or just giving them items. I have to count and hoard my gold now...

This. I don't play to be a merchant (and there's nothing wrong with folks that like that aspect). I've never even sold anything to another player, just sell it back to the game for little profit or hand it off. I usually have around 50k at any one time, but it's generally less. I, too, like giving away stuff--it's only play money, after all. But now....now I'm having to keep an eye on the bottom line. I find myself looking forward to the consignment store just to get the money to buy the potions I need. It's pretty sad when I can't afford to reward a newbie with a pretty pink for a good job because I've got to buy potions or elixirs. Keep it difficult, make us plan and cooperate, but don't make elixirs necessary to play.

[Mala]

Nice sarcasm.

I paid 20P for a campaign and you want me to be stuck playing the lower levels that are still a huge money drain until I'm a lvl 50? Are you kidding me? This has never been the case in past campaigns.

Your response is hateful and not what I'd expect from a dev...


I agree 100% with you. Very unproffesional and discourteous.


Or you could, you know, gear up on the lower bosses while you level to 50, rather than complain about doing content above your level and needing elixirs to do it.

Last time I checked it was a lvl 45-50 campaign. Not a lets play half the campaign until im lvl 50 and can play it without elixers campaign. It supposed to be difficult enough to allow lvl 45-50 players play. Not only level 50 ones.

[Snakespeare]

Or you could, you know, gear up on the lower bosses while you level to 50, rather than complain about doing content above your level and needing elixirs to do it.

Quite so. That is what I have been doing. I know map 1 is comparatively boring, but there are Lesser D'Jinn who drop pinks, and two bosses who don't require elixirs.

But Futumsh, you've gotta listen when I tell you, the gear in there is mostly crap. What use do we have for level 44 gear? There's been some kind of mistake. This is a level 45 map. And so many of the pinks that drop are level 46 or 47, or 48. Their stats are different by, like, 1 or 2 points of damage. It's not "gearing up". It's just stuff to liquidate. Also, the threat level in Secret Pyramid is yellow for level 45 through level 47. That's about 70 mobsters who give .5 less XP per kill. That's got to be a mistake, too.

So, yes, this is my plan of attack. And I do appreciate that we can't power-level in map 1. The armor is too high for fast kills. I have been considering the respawning shadows in map 2 for that.

Thank you for referring to something being "above your level". Now can we mention things that are "below your level"? Because the idea that character levels and map levels are supposed to coincide has been ignored no matter how many times I point it out. Especially to people "farming" with characters who are 20 levels too high for a map who bully those who are in the right level. So, let's keep that concept in mind. If there is such a thing as "above your level", there is also such a thing as "below your level".

In short, I have mostly stuck to map one through level 46, and now that I reached level 47, I will be mostly playing in map 2.

And with deep respect for my friends who see things differently, I can only say, I hope you will try it this way.

Fut, you probably shouldn't say the word "complain". It sounds too much like a dismissal.

[Chickdigcookies]

Quite so. That is what I have been doing. I know map 1 is comparatively boring, but there are Lesser D'Jinn who drop pinks, and two bosses who don't require elixirs.

But Futumsh, you've gotta listen when I tell you, the gear in there is mostly crap. What use do we have for level 44 gear? There's been some kind of mistake. This is a level 45 map. And so many of the pinks that drop are level 46 or 47, or 48. Their stats are different by, like, 1 or 2 points of damage. It's not "gearing up". It's just stuff to liquidate. Also, the threat level in Secret Pyramid is yellow for level 45 through level 47. That's about 70 mobsters who give .5 less XP per kill. That's got to be a mistake, too.

So, yes, this is my plan of attack. And I do appreciate that we can't power-level in map 1. The armor is too high for fast kills. I have been considering the respawning shadows in map 2 for that.

Thank you for referring to something being "above your level". Now can we mention things that are "below your level"? Because the idea that character levels and map levels are supposed to coincide has been ignored no matter how many times I point it out. Especially to people "farming" with characters who are 20 levels too high for a map who bully those who are in the right level. So, let's keep that concept in mind. If there is such a thing as "above your level", there is also such a thing as "below your level".

In short, I have mostly stuck to map one through level 46, and now that I reached level 47, I will be mostly playing in map 2.

And with deep respect for my friends who see things differently, I can only say, I hope you will try it this way.

Fut, you probably shouldn't say the word "complain". It sounds too much like a dismissal.

YOUVED OPEN MY EYES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

still, robodude is pretty hard...

[Tavore]

Or you could, you know, gear up on the lower bosses while you level to 50, rather than complain about doing content above your level and needing elixirs to do it.

That seemed a little harsh. Really wasn't expecting that. I know your probably not liking some of the feedback your getting but people are only giving it to help the game out. I wouldnt be making remarks like that to your community that gives you your income. Although I could just be taking it the wrong way.

[Kacktress]

You all need to quit crying and deal with it. Freakin babies!!!

[Snakespeare]

No name calling, please, and no characterizing. Our devs have always been receptive to our feedback. They actively solicit our feedback. Things will change in the new campaign as things get worked through. This is the standard evolutionary process of this game.

If you don't have anything to suggest other than "stop crying", then you are the one who needs to learn to deal with it. It's a messageboard. What exactly were your expectations?

[Aspergillus]

Or you could, you know, gear up on the lower bosses while you level to 50, rather than complain about doing content above your level and needing elixirs to do it.


That seemed a little harsh. Really wasn't expecting that. I know your probably not liking some of the feedback your getting but people are only giving it to help the game out. I wouldnt be making remarks like that to your community that gives you your income. Although I could just be taking it the wrong way.

I don't know if there is any other way to take it... You are right... it is not smart to alienate your community for pointing out flaws in the game. no one wants to play the AO1 remake level until they get to an "appropriate" level.

Devs - there are other games coming out. Some using new engines like Unreal Engine 3 (see Epic Citadel). The only way that PL can survive is to have a dedicated community of players. By recycling maps, making play restrictive, making the good loot unattainable for most players, charging extra for less and telling community members that they aren't playing right if they point out the problems, you will destroy the loyalty that is needed for the game to succeed.

New content - original, not recycled and re-colored - and treating the members with respect are necessary for the future of PL, as is fixing the problems that players point out. If people feel that they have been cheated or that the game is unplayable, they won't play, let alone spend money on new level packs.

[CanonicalKoi]

That seemed a little harsh. Really wasn't expecting that. I know your probably not liking some of the feedback your getting but people are only giving it to help the game out. I wouldnt be making remarks like that to your community that gives you your income. Although I could just be taking it the wrong way.

This. Considering that the #1 rule of the forum is, "Be Respectful" and the #1 rule of the game is, "Be Nice", Fu's comment seemed more than a little ironic to me. Sarcasm with a side of irony, if you will. A reply of, "Players wanted a challenge and we envisioned the final levels as being played by level 50's with appropriate equipment and still not having an easy time of it. We probably could have done a better job of communicating that to everyone. Sorry for the miscommunication." might've been a bit better.

[Snakespeare]

This has to be a misunderstanding. Haven't the devs always been receptive to us?

Is there any way we can wait this out and see if the two of them can work it out, not make things worse by adding fuel?

In my impression, Furrawn is someone who doesn't really need others to do her arguing for her.

Let's try to fix this, please. :)

[Futumsh]

Nice sarcasm.

I paid 20P for a campaign and you want me to be stuck playing the lower levels that are still a huge money drain until I'm a lvl 50? Are you kidding me? This has never been the case in past campaigns.

Your response is hateful and not what I'd expect from a dev...
But, fine if this is how you respond... I quit.

I know now will be the sarcastic response from JustG saying "Can I have your stuff?"
Answer "No."
I'll be on tonight & will give my belongings to my friends.

I'm sorry you feel that way, but almost all the campaigns are set up in a difficulty progression. There's no 'huge money drain' here, unless you make one for yourself - elixirs aren't required to do the content, they just make it a bit easier and allow for surviving more mistakes. Working together as an effective group with a cohesive strategy is the far more effective way to go. AO3 is a lot less forgiving of the 'just run in and kill it' method often used in the lower content, so may take some adjustment in playstyles to deal with.

That's not to say the balance of it is perfect, and it's possible it will change, but as a player I'm pretty happy with where it is now.

[Aspergillus]

In my impression, Furrawn is someone who doesn't really need others to do her arguing for her.



lol... it's true. She can definitely hold her own. However, this isn't just about her.

It points out a bigger issue. There are several people who have commented on the levels being a gold sink and the impossibility of facing later bosses without spending lots of gold on elixirs. And the answer to this? Don't play those levels, play the easy, recycled levels until you are a higher level. Even though you paid twice as much to play it.

I love this game. I spend hours playing a day and it is one of the few non-necessities I allow myself to spend money on (I'm pretty broke). I hope it all works out too, but even now, I can't imagine buying a new level pack unless I'm sure that it won't be like this, both in lack of originality overall (some of the stuff like the prisoners were awesome, but most was the same), and impossibility to enjoy. Spending 30,000 on elixirs and pots is not fun.

[Mala]

I'm sorry you feel that way, but almost all the campaigns are set up in a difficulty progression. There's no 'huge money drain' here, unless you make one for yourself - elixirs aren't required to do the content, they just make it a bit easier and allow for surviving more mistakes. Working together as an effective group with a cohesive strategy is the far more effective way to go. AO3 is a lot less forgiving of the 'just run in and kill it' method often used in the lower content, so may take some adjustment in playstyles to deal with.

How could anyone strategize if bosses 1HKO everyone? Buffed and all, players dont have the opportunity to debuff the boss unless we chug an elixer. So we would love to use strategy if given the opportunity of course.

[Futumsh]

How could anyone strategize if bosses 1HKO everyone? Buffed and all, players dont have the opportunity to debuff the boss unless we chug an elixer. So we would love to use strategy if given the opportunity of course.

This is probably a clue that there's a better way to deal with that particular boss.

[Tavore]

This is probably a clue that there's a better way to deal with that particular boss.

Not everyone is a hardcore gamer. There are a lot more casual them hardcore too. I love how it takes strategy but for most they will just give up and leave while the rest of the people in the party have no one to help them out anymore.

[Royce]

This is probably a clue that there's a better way to deal with that particular boss.

So what's the "easier" way to beat the overlord? Please enlighten. I hope you're not just referring to what everyone knows, because that's not enough. Everyone knows about the barrels and not to hit him shielded. However, the best (only?) strategy for non-Str characters is to hide outside and run in to rez if needed (probably dying in the process). And you absolutely do need elixers to keep from having the whole party 1-shot. This is not a fun boss battle unless you are a Str character with money to burn on elixers.

[Mala]

So what's the "easier" way to beat the overlord? Please enlighten. I hope you're not just referring to what everyone knows, because that's not enough. Everyone knows about the barrels and not to hit him shielded. However, the best (only?) strategy for non-Str characters is to hide outside and run in to rez if needed (probably dying in the process). And you absolutely do need elixers to keep from having the whole party 1-shot. This is not a fun boss battle unless you are a Str character with money to burn on elixers.

You read my mind, Royce. We must be Siamese twins.

[Furrawn]

I'm sorry you feel that way, but almost all the campaigns are set up in a difficulty progression. There's no 'huge money drain' here, unless you make one for yourself - elixirs aren't required to do the content, they just make it a bit easier and allow for surviving more mistakes. Working together as an effective group with a cohesive strategy is the far more effective way to go. AO3 is a lot less forgiving of the 'just run in and kill it' method often used in the lower content, so may take some adjustment in playstyles to deal with.

That's not to say the balance of it is perfect, and it's possible it will change, but as a player I'm pretty happy with where it is now.

First of all, I'd say thanks for the apology but "I'm sorry you feel that way" is not an apology.

Secondly, you are implying that I "just run in and kill" which has never been my style of gameplay. You assume an awful lot of negative things about my gameplay. Thanks for the insult.

Third, I expect bosses to be hard but I don't expect to have to use an elixir and have my whole team die around me when we are all level 46. I bought a campaign for 45-50. It's wrong for you to insist that good players just stay in the boring part hacking away.

Fourth, I only buy an elixir for fighting the Galactic Overlord on lvl 5. I simply think it should be POSSIBLE for a typical team including non-strength mages and birds to beat him without having to use an elixir.

Fifth, most of the gold sink comes from having to use health pots to stay alive because team players who aren't tanks die far too easily because there's an imbalance somewhere...

I gave honest feedback because I care about the game. What I get in return is you attacking my gameplay... Assuming bad things about me that you have zero right to assume... What person would still play PL if they were me and had you say what you've said to me?

I've played plenty with some forum folk here. I'm sure someone can vouch that I'm not a mindless player...

You could should have listened and responded thoughtfully... Understanding that I probably represent a large game demographic that isn't often vocal on the forums.

I didn't ask for a nerf. I hate nerfing. I shouldn't have to just play in the low levels because I don't have a million or more in gold. It's wrong.

Snake- yes, I can fight my own battles...
But to be honest, I feel pretty beaten up about now...

[Justg]

Swamps were tough, return of Skeller came about as a way to level easier. Things change constantly. Some people LOVE AO3, some think it is too hardcore. We'll work it out, together.

[Chickdigcookies]

hmm i think were supposed to be lvl 50 with new gear on so we get this awesome set bonus that makes us super strong...

thats just me though...thing is, THIS boss drops the new lvl 50.

[Mala]

I have noticed that the players who LOVE AO3 are those players who dont mind chugging elixers and pots left and right. Players who are also rich in the game.

[Arterra]

First of all, I'd say thanks for the apology but "I'm sorry you feel that way" is not an apology.

Secondly, you are implying that I "just run in and kill" which has never been my style of gameplay. You assume an awful lot of negative things about my gameplay. Thanks for the insult.

Third, I expect bosses to be hard but I don't expect to have to use an elixir and have my whole team die around me when we are all level 46. I bought a campaign for 45-50. It's wrong for you to insist that good players just stay in the boring part hacking away.

Fourth, I only buy an elixir for fighting the Galactic Overlord on lvl 5. I simply think it should be POSSIBLE for a typical team including non-strength mages and birds to beat him without having to use an elixir.

Fifth, most of the gold sink comes from having to use health pots to stay alive because team players who aren't tanks die far too easily because there's an imbalance somewhere...

I gave honest feedback because I care about the game. What I get in return is you attacking my gameplay... Assuming bad things about me that you have zero right to assume... What person would still play PL if they were me and had you say what you've said to me?

I've played plenty with some forum folk here. I'm sure someone can vouch that I'm not a mindless player...

You could should have listened and responded thoughtfully... Understanding that I probably represent a large game demographic that isn't often vocal on the forums.

I didn't ask for a nerf. I hate nerfing. I shouldn't have to just play in the low levels because I don't have a million or more in gold. It's wrong.

Snake- yes, I can fight my own battles...
But to be honest, I feel pretty beaten up about now...

Furrawn... everyone... you have all fallen for the internet trap. since you were frazzled by some bad ao3 experience you see others responses to everything as negative when it might not be so. also you are inserting these feeling into your response back and so further making a problem.
Everyone, a good strategy for online discussion is to play sorta happy-go-lucky, and imagine all others are too. that said, </vent>

anyway... on to real issue, ao3...

ao3 is now the beginning of the strategy side of mmo. I have to admit i had fallen into that "hacknslash" mentality, but this will fix it quick. The real problem here is this is the very first (noticable) attempt at strategy we can see in PL. you have to forgive some bugs in the system, and take in faith it will be worked out as devs see how if ao3 is ever going to work as a beta they have to TEACH us how to strategize. I am one of those semi-maybe-casual players (wannabe/future hardcores lol) and wouldn't mind if they gave us more hints on these things or softened it up for us.



I have noticed that the players who LOVE AO3 are those players who dont mind chugging elixers and pots left and right. Players who are also rich in the game.

i LOVE ao3... and all i have to my name is 150k.. the most ive ever had... im too cheap lol

[KingFu]

You all need to quit crying and deal with it. Freakin babies!!!

Hmm, was that necessary? No. Was that a troll and flaming remark? Yes.

Anyways, Futumsh, I can see your point of view since we have been complaining about ao3 being late and when you guys worked so hard on it, and release it, people say they don't like something about it. BUT, they do say it to try and help you, and the game out. I think it was a little harsh, but guys, we made it clear to him that we didn't appreciate that post, now we are done. Now may we get back to the OP?

The game is challenging, I like it like that, but, I'm leveling my tank, he's lvl 49, and without pots I'm done for. I started off with about 60 deaths, and now I have 260, yes, most of them were from lvl 45, but I'm still dying, and seeing others die from the wrath of the overlord. I realize he's supposed to be the hardest, roughest, toughest boss, but he needs more of a balance between damage, and armor and slight debuffs. Maybe if his attack dealt less damage, but he had an hs debuff, or more armor he'd be more playable? Mages get 1 shot buffed with mana shields, I don't see it fair. I post this to give my point of view and to try and help the game as a concerned player. I don't think we should spend 20 plat, only to lvl to 48 in ao2 then hit up ao3 and farm and level. Leveling takes a long time now to get from 45 to 50, so we can't have the expansion be impossible for us along the way:)

[Snakespeare]

When I was a kid and I smacked my brother, my Mom made me apologize. I would say something like, "I'm sorry that you don't like to be smacked". Somehow that never seemed to work. Then I read this line in Macbeth about equivocation, and I looked the word up. That's what I was doing! I had no idea there was a word for it. LOL!

[FluffNStuff]

I'm sorry you feel that way, but almost all the campaigns are set up in a difficulty progression. There's no 'huge money drain' here, unless you make one for yourself - elixirs aren't required to do the content, they just make it a bit easier and allow for surviving more mistakes. Working together as an effective group with a cohesive strategy is the far more effective way to go. AO3 is a lot less forgiving of the 'just run in and kill it' method often used in the lower content, so may take some adjustment in playstyles to deal with.

That's not to say the balance of it is perfect, and it's possible it will change, but as a player I'm pretty happy with where it is now.

Futumsh, I think some of the ~disconnect~ between how the Dev's expected the user's to be experiencing the game and how the user's are now experiencing the game may be due to the Dev's testing on a private local server. You are very correct that AO3 is not very forgiving of error, but that error is not always the player. AO3 is COMPLETELY UNFORGIVING of LAG. I am playing on an iPad using 25 Mb/s (~3 MB/s) connection, and I still get lag spikes in AO3. I almost threw my iPad when one of the spikes lasted exactly as long as the OverLords shields were down. The game play is very smooth, but when these spikes occur, it means almost certain death. I can not imagine the frustration of users over 3G.

As for the source of the lag, could the increase in invites be to cause? If so, can we have a do not disturb so the invites never get sent jamming up our bandwidth when in a fight?

[Furrawn]

When I was a kid and I smacked my brother, my Mom made me apologize. I would say something like, "I'm sorry that you don't like to be smacked". Somehow that never seemed to work. Then I read this line in Macbeth about equivocation, and I looked the word up. That's what I was doing! I had no idea there was a word for it. LOL!

Lol yes! Equivocation is exactly the right word!!!

The harsh post is over for you, Mystic, because it wasn't directed at you- nor was the apology that wasn't an apology at all. I have my pride. I can't possibly play after what Futumsh said unless he apologizes... which won't happen...

Fluff-
I've wondered if lag causes some of the problems, too....

The saddest thing is that I LOVE this game. I was being honest. If I made a game, I'd value honest feedback from players even if it wasn't all kudos...

[KingFu]

Lol yes! Equivocation is exactly the right word!!!

The harsh post is over for you, Mystic, because it wasn't directed at you- nor was the apology that wasn't an apology at all. I have my pride. I can't possibly play after what Futumsh said unless he apologizes... which won't happen...

The saddest thing is that I LOVE this game. I was being honest. If I made a game, I'd value honest feedback from players
even if it wasn't all kudos...

True:( fair enough, I can see where you're coming at but I really really don't want you to quit :/ :(

[Arterra]

As for the source of the lag, could the increase in invites be to cause? If so, can we have a do not disturb so the invites never get sent jamming up our bandwidth when in a fight?

I have previously suggested a GHOST/HIDDEN/NON-INVITE MODE. NOW is the time for it.

[CanonicalKoi]

True:( fair enough, I can see where you're coming at but I really really don't want you to quit :/ :(

Me either. :( I'm a very sad mage about all this.

[Cascade]

I think the devs expect us to love whatever they make....And when we dont they get all mad.

[Durnam]

I think the devs expect us to love whatever they make....And when we dont they get all mad.

well saying the games going to die because of 1 bad update isnt the way to go either though lol.

[PvP]

People are missing the fact that Pocket Legends is an MMO(RPG). In any MMO, you're ALWAYS (if you're not, then it isn't a good MMO) spending time leveling up your character and trying to 1 up everyone. Pocket Legends falls right smack in the middle of this category. I see it as not completely time consuming, because there isn't even crafting, or anything besides straight up leveling, some optional quests, and item drops. I mean really, if you want it to be non-time consuming you can't ask for anything more simple. Also, nobody is making you sit down and do all the levels in 1 day to get to level 50. Usually its at least 1 month before the next campaign comes out. I don't see them as over doing it at all, and if anything, the game would die because of it being too easy and too simple. I don't see that happening though, the devs are already breaking down mobile and computer obstacles that have never been accomplished before. This game will continue to improve, but you can't just have everything handed to you and expect level 50 to be as easy as forest haven was.

[RedRyder]

can everyone just STOP talking about it till like another week or two please?

[Arterra]

People are missing the fact that Pocket Legends is an MMO(RPG). In any MMO, you're ALWAYS (if you're not, then it isn't a good MMO) spending time leveling up your character and trying to 1 up everyone. Pocket Legends falls right smack in the middle of this category. I see it as not completely time consuming, because there isn't even crafting, or anything besides straight up leveling, some optional quests, and item drops. I mean really, if you want it to be non-time consuming you can't ask for anything more simple. Also, nobody is making you sit down and do all the levels in 1 day to get to level 50. Usually its at least 1 month before the next campaign comes out. I don't see them as over doing it at all, and if anything, the game would die because of it being too easy and too simple. I don't see that happening though, the devs are already breaking down mobile and computer obstacles that have never been accomplished before. This game will continue to improve, but you can't just have everything handed to you and expect level 50 to be as easy as forest haven was.

EPIQUOTE. let his statement ride the waves of understanding

[Drewl90]

ARGH SO MANY COMMENTS I CAN'T THINK! ARGH!


The game is not dying, on the contrary.. I think it's alive again.. what's the fun of playing a game when it's too easy or mindless? what's the achievement you get? Yes, I agree it's hard now.. but you feel good and happy when you beat the boss now, right?
Don't give up, think of a way to beat the boss, make some friends.. talk, think, plan and try and try again ;)


but yeah you got it spot on mate!

[Raxie]

furrawn, please don't go!
devs, i am liking your game very, very much. it is great and the BEST idevice game i have ever played; and i've played quite a lot. but do you know the true and real reason why i like this game? it's because the creators of the game actually listen to the community. i have been to COUNTLESS games in the past; whether it be fps, rpg, etc and BARELY ANY of the games actually listen to the community and fix the problems that the community points out. and when i first came here to pocket legends in june, i was astounded. i knew in about a day that this is truly a great game. because the devs actually LISTENED TO THE COMMUNITY AND MADE CHANGES.
but i have to say that futumsh's response is wrong. we are not complaining; sure it could be called that but we are giving you feedback on maybe what to improve. sure, you can be like most games out there and just not listen at all to the feedback. but if you do this, you will lose most of your players and resulting in you losing money. i'm quite disappointed that a dev wold say that. why should we level in ao2 until we are level 50 when we paid a good 20 plat for ao3? also, ao3 gear isn't that much better than ao2 gear. sure there are some differences of course but to get ao3 gear, you need to defeat the boss. and to defeat the boss, you really need pots. but what about the people who can't afford pots? what should they do? don't tell me you don't need pots because you do. sure, a team of tanks who are extremely good could do it without pots. but what about the mages or the birds? they get one-hit sometimes EVEN WITH POTS.
so as i said before, there are two simple solutions. either increase the money we can get. for example, more reward money when enemies die, more reward money for quests, more money from the treasure chests or more money when liquidating an item.
or, decrease the elixir's price. i'm not talking about health or mana potions; they are fine. for people without money how will they buy pots? they'll just keep dying and dying while fighting the boss. you could plan everything out but what is there to plan out when mages and birds usually get one-shotted? i mean 1.5k for one elixir? don't you think that's a bit too much. i am not one of those poor people; i have more money than i need. but i'm thinking of the poor people; especially the mages or birds who don't have much money. what are they going to do? they only have two solutions. beg and hope people give them money or get platinum.
devs, just think about it. we aren't doing this because we hate this game are we? we are doing it because we love the game and just want it better and better.

[Snakespeare]

People are missing the fact that Pocket Legends is an MMO(RPG). In any MMO, you're ALWAYS (if you're not, then it isn't a good MMO) spending time leveling up your character and trying to 1 up everyone. Pocket Legends falls right smack in the middle of this category. I see it as not completely time consuming, because there isn't even crafting, or anything besides straight up leveling, some optional quests, and item drops. I mean really, if you want it to be non-time consuming you can't ask for anything more simple. Also, nobody is making you sit down and do all the levels in 1 day to get to level 50. Usually its at least 1 month before the next campaign comes out. I don't see them as over doing it at all, and if anything, the game would die because of it being too easy and too simple. I don't see that happening though, the devs are already breaking down mobile and computer obstacles that have never been accomplished before. This game will continue to improve, but you can't just have everything handed to you and expect level 50 to be as easy as forest haven was.

I disagree with the main thrust of your reply. One-upmanship? If that were true, I wouldn't play. Crafting? No thanks. Don't want it. Levelling? No. I have PvE XP-locked twinks. Optional quests? No. They ARE THE POINT. Items? What use are items to people who only level-cap, which is what you say is the only thing to do here. They only liquidate.

I do agree about slow-leveling. It's the better way to play. Exageration, however, makes me disagree. Nobody, but NOBODY, is asking for level 50 to be as easy as Forest Haven. They are saying that they can't tell the dog "just a minute" anymore.

You also don't address the concept of level 44 items dropping in a level 45 map, the question of balance that seem to be off because mages and avian are not able to play versus some bosses or the trashy level 46 versions of level 45 items.

In short, the only thing I do agree with is the part where you say they have broken barriers and that it is continuously improving. I'll add to that that these developers listen to us. And that's why we are giving feedback.

[Dip]

well.. jsut my two cents..

actually i've jsut completed AO3 yesterday. haha was working and didnt really ahve time to play.. but thanks to some friends in PL, they guided me through all the levels including how to defeat overlord..

Well i'm not sure why ppl are complaining.. i mean if you run through the lvls like me, each level just from the mobs and liquidation, you gain quite a lot. which i have calculated to be more than enough for pots and elixir to defeat each level..you'll get around 5-6k from liquidation, just spend 1.5k on health, mana and elixir each.. but i'm sure i dont even spam 100 health pot of mana pot on each level.. max 50.. so its actually 750 +750+1500...

sorry but i'm with the dev on this one.. it seems pretty cool to have a boss that requires all classes to defeat and also some team work.

playing brainless and stupid hacking-away-at-dumb-mobs doesnt really appeal to me..and pls remember this is not newbie level.. its the highest lvl possible in PL right now.

[yesIManoob]

If you're spending ridiculous amounts of pots trying to beat the Galactic Overlord, THEN DON'T FIGHT IT YET. It's meant to be hard for a reason.
And this complaining is ridiculous. If it's so easy to get to level 50, then everyone will get there and then be bored again/ quit the game because there won't be anything to do until the next campaign comes out, and who knows when that will be, considering AO3 came out a few months after AO2.

[Snakespeare]

Yes, but if you imply that an intelligent person is stupid or brainless, they will get angry.

[Furrawn]

First- to address PvP, Red, etc- I never advocated nerfing AO3. I said I can't afford to play it like it is... There are multiple possible solutions, I'm sure- including Raxie's suggestion of more gold being given in AO3. I said I can't afford to level my characters (not because of buying elixir for one boss- I just don't think anyone should HAVE to buy an elixir) and am concerned about it. I never said it's too hard. I said there's an imbalance for non-strength mages and archers.

Red- I can't play AO3 for a couple of weeks... I don't have the gold...

Mystic, Snake, Asper, Canonicalkoi, Cascade, Raxie, Necrobane... Thank you...
Truly... I love y'all and did before this mishap.

Haikus said he was quitting if I did... I told him not to... But Haikus, I appreciate the heroic gesture very much:)

I'm, personally, very sorry that things unfolded the way they have... I had to express my concern that I couldn't afford to level my three 45's to 50... I never assumed that I spoke for everyone. Nor did I expect or want the devs to jump and change things. I do know that I am not alone in my experience. I had to tackle the issue now since the campaign was going to become hard for me to play goldwise....

I didn't expect Futumsh to post at all- much less to post what he posted... I realize many of you would shrug it off. Well, I can't. My feelings were hurt and my pride was hurt...

As far as I'm concerned, if I continue to play without an apology for the harshness, I'm saying it's ok and it's not. I realize we must say things on the forum that the devs don't like... But harshness from one of them is worse than harshness from a peer... I know they have feelings... But they have the position of power and should be considerate when responding...

I thought there would be a way to talk and make tweaks so gold was less of an issue because I knew plenty of people were having the same problem as me... I never said the solution was nerfing. I don't know the solution. I was frustrated and trying to ask for help:(

[jonboy]

wow first thread where dev input actually lowered the standard of the posts.

[CanonicalKoi]

When I was a kid and I smacked my brother, my Mom made me apologize. I would say something like, "I'm sorry that you don't like to be smacked". Somehow that never seemed to work. Then I read this line in Macbeth about equivocation, and I looked the word up. That's what I was doing! I had no idea there was a word for it. LOL!

Snakespeare, I think I love you. Anyone who can bring in Shakespeare *and* Macbeth into the conversation....well. I'm in love. May I call you the Asp of Avon? (And very good point, btw.)

[Advance]

HURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR DURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

OMG MENG I CANT RUSH IN LAIK DUH LEROY JENKINS EVERY LEVEL， IT DUH TOO HARD MENG！！

HOLY SHETTT THE BOSS CAN ACTUALLY KEEL ME？ WHATTTTTTT ？？？ NERFFFFF

CASUAL PLAYER CASUAL PLAYER EXCUSE EXCUSE CASUAL PLAYER EXUCSEEEEEESSSS

K Seriously, being a casual player is one thing, having a brain is another.

STS, don't make the mistake of nerfing AO3 like you've done with Swamps.

[CanonicalKoi]

K Seriously, being a casual player is one thing, having a brain is another.



Making a weird, off-the-cuff response is one thing and actually reading the whole thread before hitting reply is another. Read the whole thing--neither Furrawn nor anyone else with concerns was asking that AO3 be nerfed.

[Advance]

Sorry, kind sir. I have a Physics exam comming up tommorow, and I cannot be bothered to read 9 pages of back and forth bickering about who the content should favor ; Casual players or Hardcore players in this case.

However, I c wut u did thar in attempting to mimic the structure of my response, thus sounding like a kool kid.

[shadywack]

I think the Android release would definitely give the game a shot in the arm ;)

[CanonicalKoi]

Sorry, kind sir. I have a Physics exam comming up tommorow, and I cannot be bothered to read 9 pages of back and forth bickering about who the content should favor ; Casual players or Hardcore players in this case.

However, I c wut u did thar in attempting to mimic the structure of my response, thus sounding like a kool kid.

Not a sir, long since out of school at any level, long past the point of being a "kool (sic) kid". Studying so that you know something about a subject rather than just jumping into the middle of it is a good idea and one that may be applied to other areas in life. Ahem. If you'd read even the opening post you'd have seen what some of the concerns were. But, (laughing) your kind apology is graciously accepted in the spirit in which it was given.

[Arterra]

I also will ignore this and post a useless thing (up top anyway) in order to get praise for it :D

Though i will say that we should pay more attention to the after effects of AO3... this is effectively a WALL. I cannot see any of them Mynas noobs getting thru this, at least not without de-noobing in the process. That is perfect! If the devs finally do put in a minimum level requirement of lv49 (48 being ao2 max) on all subsequent campaigns then we are home free of these guys!! all previous campaigns are to teach you basic skill and hacknslash training. AO3 comes along and trains you for the next level: STRATEGY. I would not mind 10 more level cap raises of this kind, makes it a REAL GAME.

THAT is how to deal with mmo cheaters. make a CHALLENGE.

[Leach]

I've yet to purchase this AOC3 however years of gaming has taught me, that a game is boring if you farming it within a few months. While i know PL is not a typical MMO, lets look at this realistically. Do you really want a challenge, something worth trial and erring over or would you enjoy a game were your running over your opponents with out resistance.
The developers want to give us a challenge because they respect us as gamers, dumbing down would just be a insult. Personally this thread has convinced me to purchase AOC3 because of the challenge, please don't nurf it.

[Arterra]

ah, fine, I'll spill the beans... statistics show forum users aren't smart anyway :P



I also will ignore this and post a useless thing (up top anyway) in order to get praise for it :D

Though i will say that we should pay more attention to the after effects of AO3... this is effectively a WALL. I cannot see any of them Mynas noobs getting thru this, at least not without de-noobing in the process. That is perfect! If the devs finally do put in a minimum level requirement of lv49 (48 being ao2 max) on all subsequent campaigns then we are home free of these guys!! all previous campaigns are to teach you basic skill and hacknslash training. AO3 comes along and trains you for the next level: STRATEGY. I would not mind 10 more level cap raises of this kind, makes it a REAL GAME.

THAT is how to deal with mmo cheaters. make a CHALLENGE.


NOW can u see it?

says "
Though i will say that we should pay more attention to the after effects of AO3... this is effectively a WALL. I cannot see any of them Mynas noobs getting thru this, at least not without de-noobing in the process. That is perfect! If the devs finally do put in a minimum level requirement of lv49 (48 being ao2 max) on all subsequent campaigns then we are home free of these guys!! all previous campaigns are to teach you basic skill and hacknslash training. AO3 comes along and trains you for the next level: STRATEGY. I would not mind 10 more level cap raises of this kind, makes it a REAL GAME.
"
\
http://kokugamer.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/noobs.jpg

[Arterra]

double post for sake of SHOWING you what i mean
(i love google docs drawing... expect much more lol)

http://i902.photobucket.com/albums/ac221/yuyuhakushi/AO3wall.jpg

[Royce]

OMG, yay one of our most useless forum members has returned to post more BS. Seriously, it's not about casual and hardcore, or bosses capable of killing. I want challenge. As I've said before the problem is that Int and even Dex characters can barely participate in some battles, and elixirs have become a requirement in many cases. I don't want an overall nerf either, but there is something so obviously wrong with the current stare of affairs that only a moron could miss it ;)

[Arterra]

OMG, yay one of our most useless forum members has returned to post more BS. Seriously, it's not about casual and hardcore, or bosses capable of killing. I want challenge. As I've said before the problem is that Int and even Dex characters can barely participate in some battles, and elixirs have become a requirement in many cases. I don't want an overall nerf either, but there is something so obviously wrong with the current stare of affairs that only a moron could miss it ;)

well we are not ruling out the possibility of patching up the loose edges. just saying that this is a good turning point for going and making a full mmo experience for those with the acquired experience in the game.

[Royce]

well we are not ruling out the possibility of patching up the loose edges. just saying that this is a good turning point for going and making a full mmo experience for those with the acquired experience in the game.

I wasn't referring to you Aterra, and I agree. I think that challenge and a requirement for teamwork is a great way to go, but I think some serious tweaking is in order. Currently the best team would be entirely composed of Str characters, mostly tanks and paladins. We need a game where Int mages, at least, have a place.

[Azrael]

Wow i'm glad i missed out on most of this thread.

Anyway i'm totally with the devs. Sure some bosses need refinement but the difficulty level is perfect, and besides i think a lot more players were/are going to quit if the game provides 0 challenge than those who will quit cause its too hard. The reality is that ao3 is not only challenging but its interesting, and its certainly not the mindless hack and slash weve delt with for the last few months.

About the only complaint here i agree with is that there should be some better loot on the first 3 levels for level 48-50 that will allow players to be better prepared to deal with the later levels without always having to use elixers. Not for nothing though the entire team doesn't need elixers in any of the content. Most times only one player needs it.

Of course i hope instead of complaining for nerfed levels, that players will instead look to have healing become a serious part of the game. If the mobs did a more damage but players (tanks in particular) had closer to 1500 health rather than 400, and mages were able to actually use heal to keep them alive... these levels might not seem so impossible to players with inferior gear but still had good teamwork.

And lastly, don't go whining about futmush's posts when what he told you is the pure and honest truth. The game needs difficult content. If there are two out of the 10 or so bosses in this level that are too hard for 50% of the player base to defeat, then GOOD. You get 8 bosses for casual and 2 for players who play the game enough to handle it. That seems fair to me.

[Arterra]

I wasn't referring to you Aterra, and I agree. I think that challenge and a requirement for teamwork is a great way to go, but I think some serious tweaking is in order. Currently the best team would be entirely composed of Str characters, mostly tanks and paladins. We need a game where Int mages, at least, have a place.
(apart from the neutrality i tried putting into that first post, im glad. double posting makes me nervous...)
int characters seem to have the most trouble...
1)even when all i do is heal and rez with my pally, not even attack ANYONE, i still get mega aggro and get crippled out. horrible when only elf in group.
2)personally saw a group of birds march in and murder pl'othozz numerous times, but haven't even heard of any mage runs lol
3)they just get 1 hit ko since lack of both hp and armor. cannot even enter overlord's room (lol even birds cannot)

[flaimdude]

Wow, I'm really late to this party. But even though I'm late, this:


http://i902.photobucket.com/albums/ac221/yuyuhakushi/AO3wall.jpg
is brilliant. I mean seriously.

And believe it or not, I'm going to side with the devs on this. There was such a community response in the past that PL needed to be harder that the devs gave the community what it wanted - something harder. And now, casual players are complaining. So I mean, if there aren't people complaining, those are the people that are happy. Sadly, from what I've seen, a fair portion of new people only join the forums to complain about the most recent update, which shouldn't be. But it is how it is. So from what I've seen, I would say good job STS on making a more difficult, group and strategy-oriented campaign. I'm sorry that now casual people are complaining, but be sure that there is a huge userbase of more leaning-towards hardcore people that are very happy.

[Azrael]

I still dont get why the casual are in such a tiff. Yes at first there wasnt enough gear coming off the lower level bosses to help with harder bosses, but obviously the devs will be added more gear, and they did so today. I said it in my post on page ten that there are ways to improve gameplay without nerfing everything and making the game dull again, and again if casuals can beat 4/5 bosses, thats perfectly fair, experienced players deserve harder content just as much as casual players deserve easy content.

[Snakespeare]

They keep changing the topic into something it's not, then they argue what they changed it into.

[Gaabob]

I don't understand.... Ao3 is set up just fine for regular casual players... The levels aren't actually hard to get through, it just takes a while. Casual players are casual because they don't play alot, and they don't expect much from the game. A casual player that thinks they can do everything the hardcores can do, while still only playing casual is redonclulous.

I like playing PL hardcore myself, but school has made me take a more casual approach. Therefore I am just focusing on playing, rather than leveling quickly or farming a boss. Leveling quickly and farming bosses is for hardcores. As I see it the bosses that are in level 1 and 3 aren't all that difficult.

I dont know if I make sense, but in conclusion it doesn't make sense for casual players to expect from the game what hardcores get from it. Ao3 is set up so that it favors hardcores, but it is still playable by casual gamers.

The bosses/balance do need to be tweaked even for hardcores, but other than that there isn't much to complain about from a difficulty perspective.

P.S. I'm kinda tired so not waxing all that eloquent, I hope this helps the discussion

[Krimm]

Honestly, games on an IPhone or iPad are generally aimed at the casual player. If you get too far away from that, you will make the hardcore player happier, but could lose a much bigger percentage of other players.

[Arterra]

Honestly, games on an IPhone or iPad are generally aimed at the casual player. If you get too far away from that, you will make the hardcore player happier, but could lose a much bigger percentage of other players.

I would think that a goal for a company would be to hook a consumer to them, and for this it would be turning casual players at least semi-hardcore. who says the iphone cannot be made for hardcore gamers? spacetime took this up and made a mmo!

[Krimm]

Any companies goal is to make money, therefore keeping the masses happy over the few unhappy people. So, since casual players are much more prevalent, the "harcore" player will probably get the short end of the stick.

Example: the swamps nerf

[pooop]

well
i loves it! devs well done on something entertaining! you guys have to admit, ao3 will keep your attention when playing :D

[Azrael]

Any companies goal is to make money, therefore keeping the masses happy over the few unhappy people. So, since casual players are much more prevalent, the "harcore" player will probably get the short end of the stick.

Example: the swamps nerf

Or they can serve the needs of both player bases. And ao3 doea just that.

[vulgarstrike]

i think ao3 is fine.

all the complaining "casual" players are actually mynas noobs who want to be 50 and have awesome items but they cant. by being casual, you sacrifice skill and intuitive power for easy gameplay. if youre gonna be lazy you get what yoou work for. and i think ao3 brings just that. cant defeat the last bosS? as a casual, take your time. one day you will be level 50 (couple months from now, since youre CASUAL RIGHT) and it will all work out fine.
take your time, no ones rushing but the hardcores.

[Arjun]

One Hit Kill - Impossible Bosses - Non-Extant Loot - Is All Good.

But CAN WE GET CHECKPOINTS FOR RE-SPAWN? Would it Be Too Much To Ask For?

[TheLaw]

It would be boring then Arjun. No running about.

[Arjun]

Running about just takes up me time - was supposed to be pick up and play. ..

I prefer chilling in the hot-tubs spread around AO3.

But here's the thing see - I tries to un-equip my armor and I found tht I can't get Nekked. For to chill in hot-tub properly. Got a default silver armor underneath my uber lvl 45 gear - What gives!??

RESPAWN AT CHECKPOINT FOR MAGES ONLY - HOW'S THAT !?!

[Fyrce]

I also think Ao3 is fine. Please please do not touch it until more time has passed.

I have gone through the area with 3 of my players, only one of whom is a tank. And I have been with both an almost all bird group and an all mage group. I would say the mage group died the most but then in all my previous all-mage groups, it's our mutual rezs that save us. Same thing in Ao3. I would say Ao3 is a pleasure to play. Yes, the overlord is impossibly hard, but I expected him to be, particularly for non-tank groups. The all-mage group completed him when a couple mages quit and we acquired ONE level 48 tank and some strategy. Besides the Overlord, whom I expect to be hard, I did not find any need to use elixirs unless I wanted to. And I only used elixirs when I figured out some runs/rushes/farming things to do. Again that was by choice and I still only did that occasionally.

I do not find Ao3 to be a massive death mill. Yes there was some dying, but nothing extraordinary. The highest number of deaths I would say occurred the 1st time through, but I expected that since most of it was unknown. Until the Overlord, I did not acquire any overwhelming number of deaths on any of my chars. Heck, even after him, because at some point, you have to realize it helps to be higher level. After the 1st time, I knew the Overlord was going to be extremely difficult; I racked up deaths and spent money because I wanted to learn about him, not that I was expecting a magic bullet just because I was chugging elixirs. I think the gold and time I had to spend on him were a pleasure. He is still extremely difficult and takes some commitment, which makes him a great final boss. If we could kill him easily, please everyone would complain of boredom again. I would like to see geared level 50s run him over some time to make sure some of the best strategists have had a chance at him before he is changed, if even then. If birds and mages cannot enter his room EVER, then maybe that's not the greatest, but I think that should be a decision for a later time.

For the players who complain about gold, I would suggest you do what you did before to acquire gold. Or if you do not know how, just run through Ao2 a few times. You'll find you can level AND acquire gold and items. Also consider running with other players and watch how they play. You'll notice many people do not pop those elixirs to level. Well, unless they WANT to.

For the casual players, considering hardcore players leveled to 50 in a day (or a little over a day?), it seems completely possible to level up casually. Remember the level cap has been removed and you can level in Ao2. You might need a bit of help with a boss (Overlord) or two (Gurgox) in Ao3, but Ao3 can definitely be played by people who can only play a few minutes, go work/whatever, then come back. There is no reason you could not join a pick-up game or run a few of the levels yourself. And when you get stuck at a boss, you can call for help. There are plenty of tanks willing to help out, particularly if, as a casual player, it takes you awhile to get to a point where you are stuck. There is no reason you need to complete the area on your first run.

For the person who said you cannot farm in Ao3 unless you have epic gear + elixirs, etc, etc., I believe you will discover that that view is FAR from reality. Farming and powerleveling is already occurring and probably occurred as quickly as it took for there to be level 50 players. There are parts of Ao3 for every type of player, from hardcore requiring time and strategy (a boss or two or three) to the casual gamer in for a few minutes between meetings/classes (particularly true in the first few levels).

I love going into Ao3 pick-up games and seeing the difference in the playing, from "Ao3 is hell in gaming and there's no way we can go anywhere without elixirs; everybody elixir up" to "Let's run through the halls, get the combos going, and boy, is this fun!" (And there ARE certain levels I like better than others, depending on what I want to play.) I do wonder how the people who found/find Ao2 extremely difficult find Ao3, but I'd imagine they'd say it's somewhere close to impossible. I AM very happy to NOT be reminding people how to use their skills in Ao3, though probably more could remember their buffing/debuffing/stunning skills. Well, most of Ao3. I did have to remind a few players of their skills a few times in Ao3:1, but hey, that's the beginning. It's nice to see strategy (pull this mob, keep this one stunned, target this one, etc.) and see fewer of the players who will not listen. I suppose death is a good teacher. Not a perfect teacher, but a good teacher. The non-participating player (why does it seem there is one in many groups?) is much more noticeable in Ao3 since it's a great help to have all hands on deck in this area. Again, there is a lesser occurrence of this in the higher level(s).

Lastly, I love the new gear: Their names, their graphics. A few of the former Ao2 items seem a bit underpowered, but I'd imagine those will get fixed. A couple of the level 50 items are exactly the same as their level 45 counterparts except for the level. I can't remember which right now, but I'd imagine people are already noting those. I would say, overall, Ao3 is very entertaining.

[Slush]

One Hit Kill - Impossible Bosses - Non-Extant Loot - Is All Good.

But CAN WE GET CHECKPOINTS FOR RE-SPAWN? Would it Be Too Much To Ask For?

No way man. After losing a boss fight it is mandatory to take the walk of shame.

[Arjun]

No way man. After losing a boss fight it is mandatory to take the walk of shame.

Fair Nuff - But is not right on the mages what had been rezing others who should also be in on walk of shame. Mage to Get Checkpoint. And Warriors to go topless for Hot-tub.

[gizerbeam]

Or you could, you know, gear up on the lower bosses while you level to 50, rather than complain about doing content above your level and needing elixirs to do it.

Regarding Futumsh's comment, I would say this is true. We complain because A02 was too easy, then we complain because A03 is too hard. We had 3 months or w/e amount of time to accumulate gold. Fighting a boss should be a reward. If performed properly, any boss can be defeated. Your forced to work together, to communicate and to become strategic. Something that we haven't had in the past. Thus some individuals have been over-reacting.

There is always a way around it. Keep it up Dev's. My only suggestion would be to perhaps increase the gold input for minons/boss' in A03. That would perhaps make elixirs much more affordable for the casual player.

[Thyrant]

I have not so much Time to play every Day many Hours.
i Have one Tank Warrior on Lv 46, leveld up on the normal way. 3 Weeks playing, a few hours a day.
Yesterday i played Ao3, crazy.

i didnt have the best Weapon, in never spend time in farming.
i have just 65k Gold, i only selled 1 Weapon for 20k. i didnt have the time, to Sell pinks in the Game.

When i hearded that Peoples spend 200k and more Gold to play Ao3, iam wired.
i dindt have so much MOney, i think, i never will.

Most of my Pinks, i spend it for new Players. i thought its the right way.

Now i have to farm, and Sell Items, against my nature.
Just to beat AO3.

Yesterday we need 2 Hours, to beat the seceond Map.
Cause, the Players allways leave the Game.
You cant get a strong Party. Every People does what he wants, rushes directly into the death.

We need Guilds! Were i can Trade Weapons, not sell. And play together.



soryy for my English, iam German

[Raxie]

i completely understand how you feel, thyrant.

[Arjun]

i didnt have the best Weapon, in never spend time in farming.
i have just 65k Gold, i only selled 1 Weapon for 20k. i didnt have the time, to Sell pinks in the Game.

Yesterday we need 2 Hours, to beat the seceond Map.
Cause, the Players allways leave the Game.
You cant get a strong Party. Every People does what he wants, rushes directly into the death.

We need Guilds! Were i can Trade Weapons, not sell. And play together.



soryy for my English, iam German

Don't Stress Bro - Same thing on my side. Never thought would gather sooo much gold. Just keep u'r eye's open in town is all. Pay attention to wht people are buying - B> So and So and So and So of Thoth. If you happen to have it. Start Negotiating.

Seriously. I happens to score an Alien Blaster Back in AO2. . .a lvl 43 one. Was just going to my stash in town and started speaking to someone looking for an Alien Blaster. 300k. right there. I was like - OOookaaay.

Same with Zuraz Shock Lance. . . was just running the lvl with a team not farming as such. . .killing D'jinns et al. . got to boss. . one shock lance - zuraz. Two day's later - another. Sooo was not going to sell . . or even try so hard to sell. . .as you said. . hardly have time to play so much. Can't bother standing around to sell stuff. . . .walking through town saw someone asking anybody for shock lance of zuraz. . so to show off I said I had one. . .he said lemme see in trade. Puts 700k gold. I didnt even ask for it. Again. Said. . .Oookay. Tick.

Soo just keep going with the flow I say. And Stop. . . Look . .. and Listen. Every now and then.

[Galois]

This has been a really good read. I don't post much at all (I'm more of a reader) but I wanted to echo some of the thoughts raised.

I am personally loving AO3, although I will admit it is a large step up in difficulty from most of the previous content. I've only been completely through it twice with my pally and have only hit the first area with my bird, as I've been replaying the early levels a lot.

I dont believe that the problem is the difficulty itself, but rather, as other players have mentioned, that there isn't an organized way to play. I personally believe that guilds will do wonders for the game, as like minded players will be able to organize and tackle the game based on their play styles. The trouble I have run into is that when the party wipes a few times, or even once, players give up and leave. Another player (I apologize for not specifically calling out names-I'm posting from my iPhone so going back in the thread is difficult) mentioned that he had the same issues: the party breaks, reforms and is less organized with each iteration.

Another issue is the divide in the player base. With just about any MMO, especially those that are easily accessible, the player base divides into a "casual" group and a "hardcore" group. From that point, it becomes incredibly difficult for the developers to make everyone happy. If they cater more toward the group that doesn't sink hours each day into the game, they lose the interest of the more frequent players. One needs to look no further than the wait between AO2 and AO3: how many posts were there of people being fed up with low level quests taking but a day for level capped players to exhaust, begging for more high level content?

The tricky part is that the "hardcore" group tends to be smaller than the "casual" group, so many times the former group gets left out. One thing that might help would be to have two versions of new content: a more accessible version in which players can still reach level cap, and a harder version in which the enemies are stronger but drop much better loot. That way, both camps can feel happy with their purchases.

[Fyrce]

I have to comment about the grouping thing: Yes, there seem to be lots of people who quit out just because of a death. Die, leave. I say good riddance. Usually in a group of 5, after suffering a few deaths, you know who the persistent ones are. You can also start to call out some strategy, since they already know straight rushing won't work. I've noticed many times the ones who quit are the ones rushing about on their own anyways. You do not need those in your party.

If you're short hands, start going down your friends list and invite. You can start with classes you need and then all friends. If that doesn't work, then your partner (there almost always is someone who sticks it out with you) invites. It usually doesn't take long to get a group together. Several times, I've found friends were running the same dungeon level and were also short of hands. We combine games and viola! Lots of fun. As a last resort, look at the games list and find another game playing the same dungeon and join that one. Try to take your persistent buddies with you if you can or explain you will invite when there is space. They might be your new friends (see below). And when you join other people's game, you know the rule: it's their game, let them lead or tell you what they want to do. Don't run off on your own and NOT contribute to the group.

Which leads to the "make sure to friend anyone you find who plays the game the way you like to play". I admit I used to friend everyone I played with and I still make sure there's at least one friend in the crash areas (Ao2:6, Ao3:2), but that gets frustrating if those are people who frustrate you. So friend after you've played with them a bit; it only takes a couple fights to tell which you like. Eventually your friends list will consist of people who play about the same time as you in very similar styles or who enjoy your company. Then your invites form a very nice group.

Which also means you need to remember to NOT friend or unfriend people you do not enjoy being with. That way you do not invite the people you do not like or who play very differently than you. If should only take a few good pick-up games to get a nice friends list going.

Which also means your friends list is now your guild.

Lastly, if there's something you like doing, a particular dungeon you like, a task you need to do, then host your own game. When your friends know what you do, they'll join you or ask about it or invite you when you're on. Viola, more fun in the void!

Of course, there will always be random people who join and you WANT random people to join; it's how you meet new players and make new friends. There is a usefulness threshold here, of course, though last night, there was a very useful level 30 mage in Ao3:2 who was better than some of the higher level players so try not to judge too early. With that mage, a level 30s bird, another bird and two tanks, we defeated the Keeper. Loved it and of course, they are now friends. Note: the group only had ONE mage and it was a level 30 mage. Not 31. 30. And we defeated the Keeper, the one some people say they were stuck on. I am not going to say I would invite level 30s first but they will level and they will still be on the friends list. I can't even remember how many level 45+ people popped in and chickened out (prob because of the level 30s) before this group meshed.

Ao3 will weed out the weak ones; trust it (LOL).

And of course, when games fill up too quickly, be polite and tell people that you're sorry the game's full, or that someone else joined, or that you will invite next game, etc. And if you say you are inviting them, then invite them or make sure they know the game filled up too fast and there's a next time. Be nice. Of course, if you are rude a lot, your friends list will likely shrink because I am pretty sure I am not the only one who uses the friends list to mark those whose play I enjoy.

[Gator]

Or you could, you know, gear up on the lower bosses while you level to 50, rather than complain about doing content above your level and needing elixirs to do it.

Not a nice response from a dev. I think you should be careful about what you say as a developer and be nicer to the people who are paying good money to play your game.

[Arterra]

Not a nice response from a dev. I think you should be careful about what you say as a developer and be nicer to the people who are paying good money to play your game.

dude a little late with this. don't u dare start another flame war...

[Azrael]

I have not so much Time to play every Day many Hours.
i Have one Tank Warrior on Lv 46, leveld up on the normal way. 3 Weeks playing, a few hours a day.
Yesterday i played Ao3, crazy.

i didnt have the best Weapon, in never spend time in farming.
i have just 65k Gold, i only selled 1 Weapon for 20k. i didnt have the time, to Sell pinks in the Game.

When i hearded that Peoples spend 200k and more Gold to play Ao3, iam wired.
i dindt have so much MOney, i think, i never will.

Most of my Pinks, i spend it for new Players. i thought its the right way.

Now i have to farm, and Sell Items, against my nature.
Just to beat AO3.

Yesterday we need 2 Hours, to beat the seceond Map.
Cause, the Players allways leave the Game.
You cant get a strong Party. Every People does what he wants, rushes directly into the death.

We need Guilds! Were i can Trade Weapons, not sell. And play together.



soryy for my English, iam German

You can add me in game "Ogrim" and play in my games. We finish maps quickly.

[Lesrider]

I wasted about 10k trying to help a friend beat the overlord to unlock victory lap. Everyone took tank pots, and before you know it, I was the only one still fighting, downing health pots like there's no tomorrow. Till finally my tank pot wore off and I died. Game over. All that cash gone and didn't even kill the boss.

I've returned to farming cash in ao2 with my Mage so I can save up enough money to buy armor for my chars. This is no fun -- the exciting part of the game is loot drops! But if I can't fight the bosses that drop the armor without having the armor, how can I ever get the armor?!? It's a vicious circle.

And then there's the problem of players with full armor wanting to rush all the bosses, when there are members of the party who don't have strong enough armor to do that. So half the team wants to clear while others want to rush and everyone ends up dying if the rushers won't comply.

It's gotten to the point that I'll only do ao3 if a few specific friends of mine are online, because I know they won't rush into a game and get us all killed.

[TwinkTastical]

Whyd u revive a dead thread? ^ Also, Overlord is easily soloable on a 45 with just tank pots -.-

[Lesrider]

You can solo the Ol? Show me please.

[Raxie]

by easily, you mean using about 200 health pots?

[Kossi]

suggestion- add herblore (make pots cheap)