Hit percentange?? Whats the effects

[Whofool]

Just a question. Does your hit percentage inflict on your oppenets dodge? Like if you have 200% hit, are you more likely to hit on someone with 20 dodge?

[Muslim]

Ofcourse lol, the more hit%, the more likely you wont miss a hit, and the more likely you wont get dodged. High hit% will make ot so that you will land more hits on your opponent.

[Whofool]

Ofcourse lol, the more hit%, the more likely you wont miss a hit, and the more likely you wont get dodged. High hit% will make ot so that you will land more hits on your opponent.

Thanks lmao. Some one was saying crit makes it so they dont dodge as much? Donesnt mske sense at all. But thanks justwanted to make sure(:

[Lexlyde]

Dodge and hit% are different things. When you start a char it have 67hit% it means if do 100 attacks 67 will hit and 23 will miss. Dodge is a % too. If you have 10 dodges, when get hit 100times you will dodge 10times.

[dudetus]

Anything above 100% is obsolete, hit % is just hit %. Above 100% does no use.

Do mages crit a crit?

[LEVEL ONE]

Anything above 100% is obsolete, hit % is just hit %. Above 100% does no use.

Hm, are you sure about that?

[CrimsonTider]

Physiologic showed WAY back that hit% caps out somewhere around 85%. Like Dudetus said, going much higher is just a "false" number. Dodge is more of the determining factor, thus why it says "dodge" when you land a hit rather than "miss." This is the argument at endgame PvP: Though it is nice to run maps and not get hit, 5 minute (or more) bear fights or no bueno.

[Yich]

Physiologic showed WAY back that hit% caps out somewhere around 85%. Like Dudetus said, going much higher is just a "false" number. Dodge is more of the determining factor, thus why it says "dodge" when you land a hit rather than "miss." This is the argument at endgame PvP: Though it is nice to run maps and not get hit, 5 minute (or more) bear fights or no bueno.

This has been tested for level 15-17 talons and is true.

[CrimsonTider]

This has been tested for level 15-17 talons and is true.

This "agreeing" has to stop! ;)

Quick... someone make a thread about... no, nevermind. :)

[Waug]

This "agreeing" has to stop! ;)

Quick... someone make a thread about... no, :)

ok sir,

The cap can't be at 85% it has to be at 100%.

And that's what % meant to be :)
more than 100% is meaningless unless it's affected by hit debuff.

[MightyMicah]

I'm pretty sure a high crit will make you more likely to hit an opponent with high dodge. In fact, I'm very sure.

[CrimsonTider]

I'm pretty sure a high crit will make you more likely to hit an opponent with high dodge. In fact, I'm very sure.

We only work in absolutes, sir. "Pretty sure" is for lazy slobs who eat flaming-hot Cheeto's. ;)

[Yich]

ok sir,

The cap can't be at 85% it has to be at 100%.

And that's what % meant to be :)
more than 100% is meaningless unless it's affected by hit debuff.

I see no chink in the armor that is your logic. Except, wait, no, you're completely wrong. The cap is 85% for many weapons, it's been tested, and unless you've test and found otherwise, get outta here with your wanna-be matter-of-fact posts. We all understand that percents generally cap at 100%, but I regret to inform you that STS has many hidden game mechanics. It's not all so simple like you seem to think it is. So go crawl back in your cave and continue to believe that if you get 200 hit % you'll start double hitting people, and just leave the people who think logically alone. No offense.

[MightyMicah]

We only work in absolutes, sir. "Pretty sure" is for lazy slobs who eat flaming-hot Cheeto's. ;)

If you're Referring to Yich and his flaming, then it's more accurately described as "crushing flaming hot Cheetos." ;)

[FluffNStuff]

Hit does NOT cap at 85%, at least not anymore.

[CrimsonTider]

If you're Referring to Yich and his flaming, then it's more accurately described as "crushing flaming hot Cheetos." ;)

It was actually a Parth reference but he be too lazy to read, which in turn proves my point.

@Fluff - When was this tested last? It has always been my understanding this is the case.

[Deathofan]

Dodge and hit% are different things. When you start a char it have 67hit% it means if do 100 attacks 67 will hit and 23 will miss. Dodge is a % too. If you have 10 dodges, when get hit 100times you will dodge 10times.
Thats a lie, 67% hit means you have a chance of picking 1 number out 67 from a total of 100. Where did you get you have to do it 100 times to get the percentage? Percentage is the chance out of 100, not the results of 100 tests.

[MightyMicah]

It was actually a Parth reference but he be too lazy to read, which in turn proves my point.

@Fluff - When was this tested last? It has always been my understanding this is the case.

Wait. Let me get this straight. Y'all think hit% will only make it to 85% regardless of what the actual % is? That's ridiculous! I'm sorry...that goes against everything I've ever experienced in pvp.

[Deathofan]

I've even seen apollo admit it. The higher the hit %, the better it breaks through the dodge factor, I saw an old post from someone who quoted Cinco about it, but I'll look for it. And I believe there are seperate equations from both PvE and PvP, so I guess PvE tests don't count here.

[Piosidon]

Are dodge and crit even a percentage cause all I see is just a number

[Zeus]

Anything above 100% is obsolete, hit % is just hit %. Above 100% does no use.

Do mages crit a crit?

Wrong, Cinco has quoted that even above 100% hit, a higher hit percent will mean that you will have a higher chance of breaking through the dodge.

Think about it... why do bears have very unsuccessful pulls at 100-120 hit? The hit factor isn't going up fast enough (excluding birds) to counteract the dodge factor.


To all those wondering, this is the very same reason why when your bear has 90+ dodge, a bird makes it seem like it infact does not have 90% dodge.

Ever wonder why a mage can't hit through a bear's dodge very well in PvP but a bird can? This is why^^

[Gaunab]

I've even seen apollo admit it

I lol'd.

There is no hit% cap (at least not in PvP). If you have 100+ hit every auto/skill will hit (unless its dodged).
Dodge is not correlated to hit or crit of the opponent, if it seems to be thats just because people see what they want to see.
Btw, dodge is not a percentage (if anybody is going to do tests).

[CrimsonTider]

Wait. Let me get this straight. Y'all think hit% will only make it to 85% regardless of what the actual % is? That's ridiculous! I'm sorry...that goes against everything I've ever experienced in pvp.

Tis true... unfortunately. If I weren't busy getting things ready for school tomorrow I would do some digging. Maybe Parth or Fluff remember the exact threads. But as Deathoffan stated, the equations and exacts don't match the same. PL (as all STS games) don't deal in exact mathematics. Take everything you have learned in school and throw it away. I believe Moogerfooger first taught me about this, or it might have been MrWallace.

Edit: Nevermind, Parth doesn't think the same so I guess I have to dig. Uggh...

[Gaunab]

Ever wonder why a mage can't hit through a bear's dodge very well in PvP but a bird can? This is why^^

Roots are why. As well as more single target dmg skills.


Mind posting a link to that Cinco quote? o.O

[Zeus]

I lol'd.

There is no hit% cap (at least not in PvP). If you have 100+ hit every auto/skill will hit (unless its dodged).
Dodge is not correlated to hit or crit of the opponent, if it seems to be thats just because people see what they want to see.
Btw, dodge is not a percentage (if anybody is going to do tests).

Gaunab,

Cinco/Asommers (can't remember which) has stated that dodge infact is correlated to hit. If you don't believe me, auto attack using a geared out Mage on a fully buffed bear and count the dodges. Then, do the same thing but replace the Mage with a bird.

[CrimsonTider]

Here is what I have gone by my whole PL career and until now, I have never seen anyone refute it:

http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?16817-Guide-to-Advanced-Mechanics-in-PL-DPS-Crits-etc&highlight=physiologic+percentage

Your answers are within section 7.

[Zeus]

I stand corrected, and so does Cincio apparently.

All classes, at different levels of hit (all above 100) had roughly the same amount of dodges at 95 dodge.

Bird at 186 hit had 49 dodges out of 100 possible attacks.
Bear at 102 hit had 50 dodges out of 100 possible attacks.
Mage at 113 hit had 49 dodges out of 100 possible attacks.

The tests were done against a savage set, 3 piece vanity bear. The dodge on bear was 95.

[Zeus]

Here is what I have gone by my whole PL career and until now, I have never seen anyone refute it:

http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?16817-Guide-to-Advanced-Mechanics-in-PL-DPS-Crits-etc&highlight=physiologic+percentage

Your answers are within section 7.

In PvP at least, I have not seen one class miss at above 100% hit.

Keep in mind that the guide Physio made, which may have been accurate at the time, may not be accurate now due to the large amount of changes done in the game.

[CrimsonTider]

In PvP at least, I have not seen one class miss at above 100% hit.

Keep in mind that the guide Physio made, which may have been accurate at the time, may not be accurate now due to the large amount of changes done in the game.

As far as I know, game mechanics haven't changed. If you look at Phys' example (using a Sunblessed set), the hit% of that set is more than most sets now outside of Flying sets (which after 5 caps, only raise 40%.) Dodge still works the same. So how would his findings still not be applicable? If anything, what you wrote above matches Phys' findings exactly. Hit% does have a cap.

[Zeus]

As far as I know, game mechanics haven't changed. If you look at Phys' example (using a Sunblessed set), the hit% of that set is more than most sets now outside of Flying sets (which after 5 caps, only raise 40%.) Dodge still works the same. So how would his findings still not be applicable? If anything, what you wrote above matches Phys' findings exactly. Hit% does have a cap.

I'm not disagreeing with him that hit % doesn't have a cap, but I am disagreeing with it being at 85%. I was looking for misses when we ran our tests, but in 300 hits not a single miss appeared.

[CrimsonTider]

I'm not disagreeing with him that hit % doesn't have a cap, but I am disagreeing with it being at 85%. I was looking for misses when we ran our tests, but in 300 hits not a single miss appeared.

I understand that, but you know as well as I do, STS has a wierd way of doing things. A "dodge" could equal a "miss" as far as they are concerned. Also, because of the makeup of this game, percentages are not "true." For example, we have used casino examples a ton to explain farming and "luck." Well, the same laws apply here. Just because someone has 100% hit, it does not mean it will land 100% of the time just as a toon with 67% hit COULD land every single hit in a trial of 500. Not likely BUT possible.

And as Gaunab stated, dodge isn't a percentage (also shown by Phys in same thread I believe.) Because of this, we cannot base percentage accuracy off of a non-percentage trait. Make sense?

BTW.... I just agreed with Yich again. I think I have the flu. :p

BTW squared: In life, if you throw a knife at me and I dodge it Matrix style, you technically "missed." hehe

[FluffNStuff]

Phys thread is simply wrong. We had this exact discussion about six months ago and I did ton of tests on myself in PvP and found that 90 hit gives 90% hit and 100 hit gives 99% hit and I never missed at 110% hit. Can't find the thread because the archives for my posts don't go back that far but if you find the discussion please post here.


BTW, GO BLUE!

[CrimsonTider]

Phys thread is simply wrong. We had this exact discussion about six months ago and I did ton of tests on myself in PvP and found that 90 hit gives 90% hit and 100 hit gives 99% hit and I never missed at 110% hit. Can't find the thread because the archives for my posts don't go back that far but if you find the discussion please post here.


BTW, GO BLUE!

On page 3 of Phys' thread, you bring up a conversation you had with Cinco regarding the factors influencing hit% and dodge and Phys had a response. I am not disagreeing with you but I am confused as to what has occurred in the last 2+ years to all of a sudden discredit work which has been considered by many "golden"?

In your quote, you state that Cinco would not reveal ALL of the schematics involved in hit% so how can we ever truly test this theory?

BTW... still looking for that other thread.

[FluffNStuff]

On page 3 of Phys' thread, you bring up a conversation you had with Cinco regarding the factors influencing hit% and dodge and Phys had a response. I am not disagreeing with you but I am confused as to what has occurred in the last 2+ years to all of a sudden discredit work which has been considered by many "golden"?

In your quote, you state that Cinco would not reveal ALL of the schematics involved in hit% so how can we ever truly test this theory?

BTW... still looking for that other thread.

Found the thread with the data I found:

http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?67608-1-Crit-5-Damage/page2

Guess you were not here for that.

[Waug]

I see no chink in the armor that is your logic. Except, wait, no, you're completely wrong. The cap is 85% for many weapons, it's been tested, and unless you've test and found otherwise, get outta here with your wanna-be matter-of-fact posts. We all understand that percents generally cap at 100%, but I regret to inform you that STS has many hidden game mechanics. It's not all so simple like you seem to think it is. So go crawl back in your cave and continue to believe that if you get 200 hit % you'll start double hitting people, and just leave the people who think logically alone. No offense.

lmao

Firstly, I said more than 100% is meaningless, you didn't read that at all, lol, no problem.

Secondly, there's no doubt that, hit% got capped at 100%

it's not my imagination, prove otherwise. And before you do, don't mention any thread that is so old, that may not be valid today.

[CrimsonTider]

Found the thread with the data I found:

http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?67608-1-Crit-5-Damage/page2

Guess you were not here for that.

No idea how I missed this thread. I will read it tomorrow so I can actually compare/contrast. Minds on NCAA right now. I guess a precursor to my future response will be this: Have tests like these been done with toons of lower hit%? For example, a full str bear with 67% hit. Also, because skills are a major factor in both PvE and PvP, do these numbers work for landing skills as well? Don't laugh if the answers are found within the reading! :p

Would be nice if we could eliminate dodge just for the sake of testing. In my simple-minded-slow-moving-brain, only way to truly test accuracy of hit% is to remove all other variables (in this case, dodge.)

[FluffNStuff]

lmao

Firstly, I said more than 100% is meaningless, you didn't read that at all, lol, no problem.

Secondly, there's no doubt that, hit% got capped at 100%

it's not my imagination, prove otherwise. And before you do, don't mention any thread that is so old, that may not be valid today.

Actually, more then 150 is meaningless. 100 will get you debuffed to storm trooper accuracy in no time.

[Waug]

Actually, more then 150 is meaningless. 100 will get you debuffed to storm trooper accuracy in no time.
That's what I said before.


more than 100% is meaningless unless it's affected by hit debuff.

[Zeus]

Actually, more then 150 is meaningless. 100 will get you debuffed to storm trooper accuracy in no time.

Stomp + HS = -95% hit

[Yich]

lmao

Firstly, I said more than 100% is meaningless, you didn't read that at all, lol, no problem.

Secondly, there's no doubt that, hit% got capped at 100%

it's not my imagination, prove otherwise. And before you do, don't mention any thread that is so old, that may not be valid today.

My goal isnt to prove anything to anyone, but since you went all big red, I will say this. The facts go alongside with intelligence. I highly respected PvPer and person in general (Vv aka call aka jake) taught me that with a talon u wont really get over 100 hit%, regardless of your stat. Now here a half-illiterate random is trying to tell me that 100% means you'll always hit every time. Without testing, I can tell you for a fact which is right, because I know who to trust.

[MightyMicah]

lmao

Firstly, I said more than 100% is meaningless, you didn't read that at all, lol, no problem.

Secondly, there's no doubt that, hit% got capped at 100%

it's not my imagination, prove otherwise. And before you do, don't mention any thread that is so old, that may not be valid today.

Oh, the ignorance. I happen to agree with you, but dude. Take a chill pill and listen to the people who are 100x smarter than either of us. I'm gonna pull the Bible card on you, brother.

Proverbs 13:1, "A wise son hears his father’s instruction, but a scoffer does not listen to rebuke."

And that begs the question- "Who's your daddy?!"

[Waug]

First off, there are two factors are related with hit %.

One is, you'll miss or not.

Second is, much debated relation with dodge, but it's true that it's directly related with dodge.

The theory is - more hit % means the opponent will dodge less, as a high level pure bird I always desperately miss this fact that a bear should dodge way much less against me, compared to other classes but this doesn't happen as hit % got capped already, this is the main reason that dodge has taken over everything and luck factor got overpowered.

I made a thread regarding this matter months ago, techno also replied their, though she didn't mention anything about the mechanics.

http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?77706-Time-has-come-Need-to-re-balance

[Yich]

First off, there are two factors are related with hit %.

One is, you'll miss or not.

Second is, much debated relation with dodge, but it's true that it's directly related with dodge.

The theory is - more hit % means the opponent will dodge less, as a high level pure bird I always desperately miss this fact that a bear should dodge way much less against me, compared to other classes but this doesn't happen as hit % got capped already, this is the main reason that dodge has taken over everything and luck factor got overpowered.

I made a thread regarding this matter months ago, techno also replied their, though she didn't mention anything about the mechanics.

http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?77706-Time-has-come-Need-to-re-balance

Your misuse of the word "their" makes your argument invalid. Good fight my friend.

[CrimsonTider]

First off, there are two factors are related with hit %.

One is, you'll miss or not.

Second is, much debated relation with dodge, but it's true that it's directly related with dodge.

The theory is - more hit % means the opponent will dodge less, as a high level pure bird I always desperately miss this fact that a bear should dodge way much less against me, compared to other classes but this doesn't happen as hit % got capped already, this is the main reason that dodge has taken over everything and luck factor got overpowered.

I made a thread regarding this matter months ago, techno also replied their, though she didn't mention anything about the mechanics.

http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?77706-Time-has-come-Need-to-re-balance

Might wanna look into the threads Fluff and I ha e posted. Might help understand things TE left unanswered. (And yes, I read your thread.)

[Waug]

My goal isnt to prove anything to anyone, but since you went all big red, I will say this. The facts go alongside with intelligence. I highly respected PvPer and person in general (Vv aka call aka jake) taught me that with a talon u wont really get over 100 hit%, regardless of your stat. Now here a half-illiterate random is trying to tell me that 100% means you'll always hit every time. Without testing, I can tell you for a fact which is right, because I know who to trust.




Oh, the ignorance. I happen to agree with you, but dude. Take a chill pill and listen to the people who are 100x smarter than either of us. I'm gonna pull the Bible card on you, brother.

Proverbs 13:1, "A wise son hears his father’s instruction, but a scoffer does not listen to rebuke."

And that begs the question- "Who's your daddy?!"

Funny. :)

[Arlvincham]

Bears had low hit percentage so sometimes their attack is miss. while bird that has a high hit percentage can hit and kill fast. thats why archers kills fast cause of high damage and they can hit without missing but really depends on the players stat. cause some are warbirds that their hit % will went down to 105% or lower but thats not bad. But for archers it is good to go for a pure dex.

[Waug]

Might wanna look into the threads Fluff and I ha e posted. Might help understand things TE left unanswered. (And yes, I read your thread.)

Sorry but techno left nothing un answered, rather she cleared that

- balancing pvp is a ongoing process and they are working on it (what she said, I'm not saying they are doing or not)

- They are not gonna turn the big nob of the games, means they are not gonna change any basic game algorithm that would impact the whole game, causing many side effects that may harm the game in other ways.

from that perspective she was pretty much clear.

[CrimsonTider]

Sorry but techno left nothing un answered, rather she cleared that

- balancing pvp is a ongoing process and they are working on it (what she said, I'm not saying they are doing or not)

- They are not gonna turn the big nob of the games, means they are not gonna change any basic game algorithm that would impact the whole game, causing many side effects that may harm the game in other ways.

from that perspective she was pretty much clear.

Actually, if you reread what YOU said, "She didn't mention anything about mechanics." That is what the discussion turned too and my reference for your response.

[Whofool]

Are dodge and crit even a percentage cause all I see is just a number

Yes theyre both percentages..

[CrimsonTider]

Yes theyre both percentages..

Read the attached threads within. Dodge has never been a percentage.

[GELLIO77]

ive never found dodge to be linked to hit%, i mean as a 71 flying bird i have over 200 hit but as i fight a bear they still dodge almost every single attack.

ive always believed (and wont stop to until proven wrong) that hit has nothing to do with the amount of dodge.

@whofool

dodge isnt a percentage, neither is crit. you dont see a ''%'' next to either of those figures do you?

[Gaunab]

dodge isnt a percentage, neither is crit. you dont see a ''%'' next to either of those figures do you?

Actually there is a "%" for hit crit and dodge in the item descriptions, just not on the inspect page. Its misleading because dodge very obviously isnt a percentage (95 dodge doesnt let you dodge 19/20 hits).
Crit, however, is and always has been a percentage as far as Im concerned.

[GELLIO77]

@Gaunab

Thinking about it now I guess crit could be seen as a "%" seeing as above 100 crit is continuous criticals.

However what you said on dodge I agree with, sometimes I dodge tons on my bear some times I dodge absolute zero

[Waug]

ive never found dodge to be linked to hit%, i mean as a 71 flying bird i have over 200 hit but as i fight a bear they still dodge almost every single attack.

ive always believed (and wont stop to until proven wrong) that hit has nothing to do with the amount of ...

Please read earlier posts carefully cause, this never has been said that hit percentage above 100 has any effect on dodge cause that's where it got saturated.

Secondly, the relation between these factors is quite prominent, unfortunately "the legit and well calculated dodge" mixed up with "lucky dodge" in current mid-high to endgame otherwise dodge is not just a luck factor rather it's an well calculated tactic.

[dudetus]

I got a headache after reading this thread further.

So, I was kinda right and Apollo was kinda wrong?

[CrimsonTider]

I got a headache after reading this thread further.

So, I was kinda right and Apollo was kinda wrong?

To be honest, I don't think we will ever truly know. Here is an example why:

Last night, I stood in a CTF map waiting on teams to get full (on my 51 bird.) I had a Sentinel Shotty set on, no buff, and had one of those annoying kids using auto on me (he was a bird.) My dodge, unbuffed, is 14. I sat there and watched 20 shots in a row get dodged, get hit a couple of times, then dodged another 5-6.

Am I saying this 2 minute example is the end all? No. What I am saying is we can test and test, which we should, and it's not always going to be definitive. Kinda like Vegas odds, someone can play slots their whole life and never win while another can sit down and hit jackpot 3 times a week. I wish I played as much as I use to so I could form a research team to do a test through a variety of levels, gears, and builds. Then again, we could do all this testing and STS turns and changes builds or mechanics again. :)

[angeldawn]

In PvP at least, I have not seen one class miss at above 100% hit.

Keep in mind that the guide Physio made, which may have been accurate at the time, may not be accurate now due to the large amount of changes done in the game.

You may want to check again on the 'miss'. There was a bird complaining in CTF (Rockfort) yesterday that his hit way over 100 and he had a miss. He raged about this a few times.

[Zeus]

You may want to check again on the 'miss'. There was a bird complaining in CTF (Rockfort) yesterday that his hit way over 100 and he had a miss. He raged about this a few times.

It is correct, I've already checked many times.

Birds can miss due to debuffs though. I know that my bear can debuff over 100+ hit, so it's definitely still possible for them to miss.

Also, a bird isn't quite a credible source, Angel. I'd need to know his name and stuff, because if he's a newer player and doesn't understand the mechanics as well, he may just be raging and calling dodges misses (or have various other misunderstandings).

[angeldawn]

It is correct, I've already checked many times.

Birds can miss due to debuffs though. I know that my bear can debuff over 100+ hit, so it's definitely still possible for them to miss.

Also, a bird isn't quite a credible source, Angel. I'd need to know his name and stuff, because if he's a newer player and doesn't understand the mechanics as well, he may just be raging and calling dodges misses (or have various other misunderstandings).

Gotcha. When you said you saw no misses I don't realize you meant only in your testing vacuum without any buffs or debuffs.

[GELLIO77]

Please read earlier posts carefully cause, this never has been said that hit percentage above 100 has any effect on dodge cause that's where it got saturated.

Secondly, the relation between these factors is quite prominent, unfortunately "the legit and well calculated dodge" mixed up with "lucky dodge" in current mid-high to endgame otherwise dodge is not just a luck factor rather it's an well calculated tactic.

please read what i actually said before speaking