[question] talon or malison?

[tyler84]

hey guys,

if you have only one choice, what would it be? and why?

[FluffNStuff]

Not the answer you are looking for, but my 'Choice' changes after 10 minutes :)

[Zuzeq]

I'd rather have Mali in action for mobs(more HP), but Talon for bosses(for the DMG). I know bosses hit way harder, but at least you know it's coming.

[spuddragg]

I'd choose Talon for more damage. Malison is always a really good choice though too.

[Jellowpy]

Malison for mobs
Talon for Boss
Slag if boss are in Rage and iam forced to use bow ( mini stun fr Slag and movement speed helps a lot)

This is how i uses my 3 main rogue pet at the moment..

[Cowflab]

Depends on what youre doing. Malison is good for trash mobs because of his aoe attack. Couple the dodge of his arcane ability with razor shield and you can push your dodge to 60+% which goes well with trap>razor shield>dagger attack.

Talon is great for single target damage. They both serve their purposes in those given situations. I also use Jack when clearing trash mobs because of his mana regen ability.

[Zuzeq]

Don't sleep on Clyde for bosses ether. That -80% to movement speed has that stupid spider frostbite moving in slow motion. Ran a elite run with four bow rogues, that thing didn't stand a chance.

[Tankz]

Sts stole the name Talon from League of Legends lol

[Carapace]

Sts stole the name Talon from League of Legends lol

Or a talon could be... "A talon is a sharp claw of an animal, especially a bird of prey, such as a buzzard, eagle, falcon, hawk, or owl."

I would argue STS stole it from Websters :P

[Cashews]

Flapjack actually has comparable dmg lvls to talon at endgame and with mythics surpasses talon. That 5% extra dmg eventually overtakes the 30dex talon gives. The only thing that sucks is it doesn't show on stat screen. I have 257.5 dmg with no pet. With flapjack it calculated to 296dmg and with talon 301dmg. As dmg lvls get higher flapjack will surpass talon. I'm guessing it will around 265dmg with no pet.

[Zuzeq]

Flapjack actually has comparable dmg lvls to talon at endgame and with mythics surpasses talon. That 5% extra dmg eventually overtakes the 30dex talon gives. The only thing that sucks is it doesn't show on stat screen. I have 257.5 dmg with no pet. With flapjack it calculated to 296dmg and with talon 301dmg. As dmg lvls get higher flapjack will surpass talon. I'm guessing it will around 265dmg with no pet.

No doubt % pets will overcome base stat pets as soon as the next expansion. One has to take in account the ability to stay alive. After all you can't do DMG while walking back to the fight cause you just died. Saying that, pets that grant a bit of STR/DEX(a bit if HP) will always be useful.

[Cashews]

No doubt % pets will overcome base stat pets as soon as the next expansion. One has to take in account the ability to stay alive. After all you can't do DMG while walking back to the fight cause you just died. Saying that, pets that grant a bit of STR/DEX(a bit if HP) will always be useful.
Loki provides 15% dmg, 15 str, and +5 mana regen. His arcane ability heals team and gives +20 dex. I think by the next expansion he will be a contender for the top rogue pet. There wont be a need for INT as a lot of rogues are already rockin 1k+.

[FluffNStuff]

Flapjack actually has comparable dmg lvls to talon at endgame and with mythics surpasses talon. That 5% extra dmg eventually overtakes the 30dex talon gives. The only thing that sucks is it doesn't show on stat screen. I have 257.5 dmg with no pet. With flapjack it calculated to 296dmg and with talon 301dmg. As dmg lvls get higher flapjack will surpass talon. I'm guessing it will around 265dmg with no pet.

Flapjack will surpass Talon??? With Talon I just one shot killed Mother (the LOW level spider boss) from the smoke. Try that with any other pet!

[Zuzeq]

Loki provides 15% dmg, 15 str, and +5 mana regen. His arcane ability heals team and gives +20 dex. I think by the next expansion he will be a contender for the top rogue pet. There wont be a need for INT as a lot of rogues are already rockin 1k+.

Guess I need to buy a Loki egg..lol

[Cashews]

Flapjack will surpass Talon??? With Talon I just one shot killed Mother (the LOW level spider boss) from the smoke. Try that with any other pet!
Percentage boosts overtake stat boosts at a certain point. It's simple math.

[GoodSyntax]

I have actually started to use Loki as part of my general PvP pet rotation.

Originally, it was Malison, Wrathjaw and Ribbit, but lately, I've noticed that the 15% DMG from Loki really does a lot of extra damage and the heal (while not a ton) is enough to keep you alive for an extra second while your Medic skill cools down.

[Wowsome]

Loki has been one of the most underestimated pets.

[FluffNStuff]

Percentage boosts overtake stat boosts at a certain point. It's simple math.

Agreed on the simple math, but there is a very complicated math I will not get into that puts stats so far above boosts it will be LONG before Loki overtakes Talon.

Edit: forget that, lets go back to simple math. 30 dex has 15 percent bonus damage in it so Loki will NEVER over take Talon.

[Zuzeq]

Agreed on the simple math, but there is a very complicated math I will not get into that puts stats so far above boosts it will be LONG before Loki overtakes Talon.

Edit: forget that, lets go back to simple math. 30 dex has 15 percent bonus damage in it so Loki will NEVER over take Talon.


LoL'ed, You tell em Fluff!

[Axelrod15]

Loki has been one of the most underestimated pets.

I have a level 24 Loki AND HE'S A BOSS!!

[jtst]

Agreed on the simple math, but there is a very complicated math I will not get into that puts stats so far above boosts it will be LONG before Loki overtakes Talon.

Edit: forget that, lets go back to simple math. 30 dex has 15 percent bonus damage in it so Loki will NEVER over take Talon.

passive damage increase and pet bonus damage not equal to BONUS DAMAGE on your stat page, or any +10dex would be better than 5points in passive damage. I call your statement false

[FluffNStuff]

passive damage increase and pet bonus damage not equal to BONUS DAMAGE on your stat page, or any +10dex would be better than 5points in passive damage. I call your statement false
Guess I got to pick up a cheep 10% damage pet and get you some numbers.

[jtst]

Guess I got to pick up a cheep 10% damage pet and get you some numbers.

Would be nice of you

[GoodSyntax]

Just be aware that the DMG% from pets do not show up in your inspect page.

[yoho.]

This topic got me interested, so I did some tests.
Rough information of damage increase for rogue with 250 dmg, comparing to no_pet:
+5.4% malison
+6.0% granite
+13,4% loki
+14.0% flap
+15.5% talon
+16.0% slag


As you see statistical error quite big (flap and loki should have same dmg increase), but tendency is easy to notice:
+ % damage pets are far more valuable, and next cap flap and loki will be better than talon in damage department

[Bless]

Flapjack will surpass Talon??? With Talon I just one shot killed Mother (the LOW level spider boss) from the smoke. Try that with any other pet!
Percentage boosts overtake stat boosts at a certain point. It's simple math. Dude talon has 10% dmg boost too..,bes attack pet

[Cashews]

Dude talon has 10% dmg boost too..,bes attack petFlap and Loki have 15%. That extra 5% will overtake the 30 dex talon gives very soon.

[FluffNStuff]

Flap and Loki have 15%. That extra 5% will overtake the 30 dex talon gives very soon.

You seem to be talking Auto, so I guess I will address that even though I usually only talk Aim when it comes to Rogue damage.

Loki gives 15% Damage.

Talon gives 10% Damage + 30 Dex.
Now that 30 Dex includes 15 Bonus Damage. Current Rogues have around 300 Bonus Damage. This means the 15 bonus damage increases damage by 5 percent. So at the current level, Talon Gives 10% damage + 5% damage, or 15% damage. Now in the future, as the over all bonus damage increases, the effect of the 15 bonus damage from Talon WILL decrease. At the next cap, assuming things stay the same, players will go up by 60 Dex (30 from stats, 30 from equip) which is 30 bonus damage. At that point Talon's 30 dex will give 4.5 % damage, so ignoring his 8% crit boost and attack, and the dodge and crit you get from 30 DEX, I suppose you could say that from a strictly Auto Attack point of view Loki will give .5% more damage then Talon when they release the next cap.

Now this completely ignores skills and specifically Aim which is a whole different bees nest and I will go about testing it tonight.

[jtst]

You seem to be talking Auto, so I guess I will address that even though I usually only talk Aim when it comes to Rogue damage.

Loki gives 15% Damage.

Talon gives 10% Damage + 30 Dex.
Now that 30 Dex includes 15 Bonus Damage. Current Rogues have around 300 Bonus Damage. This means the 15 bonus damage increases damage by 5 percent. So at the current level, Talon Gives 10% damage + 5% damage, or 15% damage. Now in the future, as the over all bonus damage increases, the effect of the 15 bonus damage from Talon WILL decrease. At the next cap, assuming things stay the same, players will go up by 60 Dex (30 from stats, 30 from equip) which is 30 bonus damage. At that point Talon's 30 dex will give 4.5 % damage, so ignoring his 8% crit boost and attack, and the dodge and crit you get from 30 DEX, I suppose you could say that from a strictly Auto Attack point of view Loki will give .5% more damage then Talon when they release the next cap.

Now this completely ignores skills and specifically Aim which is a whole different bees nest and I will go about testing it tonight.

it's whole same bees, fluffy, tested

[~ARI~]

Talon is good for damage increase. Malison is good for survival increase. But out of the two, Malison is better.

[extrapayah]

well, assuming %bonus damage is added from weapon's damage, and %bonus from passive or pet are added from final damage (weapon * %bonus main attribute) then:

+ also assuming we don't count the base damage (shown in increase attribute window)

talon's should give additional 11.5% damage, while flap jack's a flat 15%

[UndeadJudge]

Mali.


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