Should I put points in STR?

[Caiahar]

Hey guys, for my main, a bird, should I put some points in str so I can have more health?

[Spyce]

Full Dex is the best IMO.

[CrimsonTider]

For every point of STR you put into a bird, you deny it a little more of it's intended purpose: Damage.

[Caiahar]

Ive done that for a long time, but maybe I should put points into str for survivability
(maybe like 130 str XD)

[NotYoCookiez]

Throw in some int while you're at it, that way you can save some mana pots.

[Randomguy]

Less respect

[CrimsonTider]

Ive done that for a long time, but maybe I should put points into str for survivability
(maybe like 130 str XD)

Sounds more like you need to learn more about playing the class properly. Lemme see if I can find Moog's guide....

[Caiahar]

Throw in some int while you're at it, that way you can save some mana pots.

I have unlimited mana at 73 O.o

[Randomguy]

That is true

[Caiahar]

Ive done that for a long time, but maybe I should put points into str for survivability
(maybe like 130 str XD)

Sounds more like you need to learn more about playing the class properly. Lemme see if I can find Moog's guide....

I know, when I was noob, I put all points in str, later, when I found forums and physiologics legendary bird guide, I knew what to do.
but I hear putting str puts a LITTLE but more survivability, and its not worth it.

[CrimsonTider]

Here ya go:

http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?59607-The-quot-Archer-Dive-quot-FTW&highlight=archer+dive

[KingFu]

Sounds more like you need to learn more about playing the class properly. Lemme see if I can find Moog's guide....

No need. Just link him to Physio's profile.

[CrimsonTider]

No need. Just link him to Physio's profile.

Yeah, but I figured Moog's was..... simpler. ;)

[Caiahar]

Im a disgrace to birds....im staying full dex.
But I cant find any good tanks these days, so now I started even considering putting into str.

[Caiahar]

No need. Just link him to Physio's profile.

Yeah, but I figured Moog's was..... simpler. ;)

And...phys is my teacher in birds..tho I never met him. I used phys' guide on my whoke bird life. Even skills :D

[CrimsonTider]

And...phys is my teacher in birds..tho I never met him. I used phys' guide on my whoke bird life. Even skills :D

The answer is quite simple: You ARE going to die as a bird. If you can't find good bears to tank for you, wait for a 3x blessing or expect to die.

[Caiahar]

And...phys is my teacher in birds..tho I never met him. I used phys' guide on my whoke bird life. Even skills :D

The answer is quite simple: You ARE going to die as so bird. If you can't find good bears to tank for you, wait for a 3x blessing or expect to die.
So......3x.combos have become a must for birds?..

[CrimsonTider]

So......3x.combos have become a must for birds?..

Ugghh... No. I am saying if you are not patient enough to learn the class and expect you will die (worrying about kdr), then using a 3x daily is your only remaining option.

[Caiahar]

So......3x.combos have become a must for birds?..

Ugghh... No. I am saying if you are not patient enough to learn the class and expect you will die (worrying about kdr), then using a 3x daily is your only remaining option.

I dont wish to bother you, if you think I am a nuisance (which I think you do). you have already helped me out alot before. And I dont care about kdr :/

[CrimsonTider]

I dont wish to bother you, if you think I am a nuisance (which I think you do). you have already helped me out alot before. And I dont care about kdr :/

Not a factor of bothering. More of you read too much into things. Gotta break that shell of paranoia, bud.

[MightyMicah]

For every point of STR you put into a bird, you deny it a little more of it's intended purpose: Damage.

You and I are some of the few who truly understand this concept, Crim.

[Caiahar]

I dont wish to bother you, if you think I am a nuisance (which I think you do). you have already helped me out alot before. And I dont care about kdr :/

Not a factor of bothering. More of you read too much into things. Gotta break that shell of paranoia, bud.

Ill try..

P.S: Micah youre back! :D

[xcainnblecterx]

I member int bird during fang cap, now pure dex has become the most efficient. If you ever get bored try doing opposite of the purpose stat for each class lol. Ie: pure dex mage, pure int bear, and pure str bird. Note this will be useless in bsm and probally humania. But for a true pve build to lvl listen to crimson

[Suentous PO]

Just to play devils advocate, I keep a warbird specifically for pugs. When I'm joining randoms people don't always know what to do best, & strength gear makes up for some of their failings.
I believe in the purism also, however, who cares if you know how to contribute well & everyone's having a good time.
( caveat : my main is a bird & I'd never do anything to take away one point of crit.)

[TEOKILLO]

Put 1/3 in each str dex and int, bes build

[billybob1]

how many threads u gonna make bout ur build?

[KingFu]

how many threads u gonna make bout ur build?

Until he knows the class inside and out. So a lot.

[Wendellism]

Birds are originally built for Strength and Dexterity. The fact that strength only grants higher survivability rather than damage, and dex grants insane damage, has caused the majority of PL playing as birds to go for pure DEX.

After all, the Elixir Generation benefits greatly in runs whenever there are more and more birds in the party. Coupled together with a pro mage (>1s rez), birds in pure DEX could easily clear a run in record time. Same rule applies for those without elixirs.

[dudetus]

Birds are originally built for Strength and Dexterity. The fact that strength only grants higher survivability rather than damage, and dex grants insane damage, has caused the majority of PL playing as birds to go for pure DEX.

After all, the Elixir Generation benefits greatly in runs whenever there are more and more birds in the party. Coupled together with a pro mage (>1s rez), birds in pure DEX could easily clear a run in record time. Same rule applies for those without elixirs.

Birds are intended to be just pure DEX. No STR, no INT, just pure DEX. What's the use of having a character which is based on damage, without the highest possible damage?

It's false that pure DEX is caused by elixirs. During AO3 cap I don't remember seeing a guy with any points in STR. There are far more DEX/STR birds now than there have been, mostly due to fact that the average skill level is way lower than it used to be due to elixirs and ppl just dont know how to play bird effectively.

[Wendellism]

Birds are intended to be just pure DEX. No STR, no INT, just pure DEX. What's the use of having a character which is based on damage, without the highest possible damage?

It's false that pure DEX is caused by elixirs. During AO3 cap I don't remember seeing a guy with any points in STR. There are far more DEX/STR birds now than there have been, mostly due to fact that the average skill level is way lower than it used to be due to elixirs and ppl just dont know how to play bird effectively.

Exactly, and I agree with you Ninja, and the main reason why Str/Dex birds exist is because of the lack of quality on players. Heck, Ragericon has even once considered respecing to equip a Savage set to give him 90+ dodge, but gave up on it as he realised that birds are meant to deal the most damage, rather than dodging all the time.

However in PvP, things aren't the same. I have seen a few Strength specced birds that has insane dodge in PvP, and they're really hard to kill without debuffing their dodge. Also, generally new players would be encouraged to add strength as a secondary stat, since a bird's base stats are;
7 Dex
2 Strength
1 Int

So that means Str/Dex birds do exist from the beginning of the game, but the veterans realised that adding Strength is useless, so they went for pure DEX. And yes, it has worked out up to Sewers or maybe even further. But from then, newer generations of players came in, and their lack of skill has caused some of them to go for the original build again. And lately, in this cap, Strength based gear is considered OP due to their dodge, thus influencing more and more players to go Strength/Dexterity all over again.

[MightyMicah]

Ill try..

P.S: Micah youre back! :D

Yes sir :)

[aav5224]

str r good in dodge if u have str gear and stuff

[Kraze]

Birds are originally built for Strength and Dexterity. The fact that strength only grants higher survivability rather than damage, and dex grants insane damage, has caused the majority of PL playing as birds to go for pure DEX.

After all, the Elixir Generation benefits greatly in runs whenever there are more and more birds in the party. Coupled together with a pro mage (>1s rez), birds in pure DEX could easily clear a run in record time. Same rule applies for those without elixirs.

Birds are intended to be just pure DEX. No STR, no INT, just pure DEX. What's the use of having a character which is based on damage, without the highest possible damage?

It's false that pure DEX is caused by elixirs. During AO3 cap I don't remember seeing a guy with any points in STR. There are far more DEX/STR birds now than there have been, mostly due to fact that the average skill level is way lower than it used to be due to elixirs and ppl just dont know how to play bird effectively.

I would have to disagree.... While the thrash pandemic has driven me away from pl I was able to play at a high level for some time as a nerdie birdie

[Suentous PO]

^^^he knows, he was in a Lilith set also at one time.
Anyone else remember when lv 30 warbird could dominate?

[dudetus]

I would have to disagree.... While the thrash pandemic has driven me away from pl I was able to play at a high level for some time as a nerdie birdie

My reply was regarding just STR burds.

I was an intburd during Fang as well. I gave rly hard time to Kanital with my Lilith set and we became best buds and I got into Unity. I owe most of my PL PvP moments to Lilith set.

I'm not saying that Intburds weren't useful but in terms of viability they aren't that good anymore as talon + wing is just simply way better.

[The Flash]

^^^he knows, he was in a Lilith set also at one time.
Anyone else remember when lv 30 warbird could dominate?

There taking about pve not pvp.

[Suentous PO]

There taking about pve not pvp.
No one said pvp or pve, but I admit I'm digressing.

Shadow, if you want I'll post the stats of a bird in any/all crafted end game sets.

[Deathofan]

Savage birds with a black valient ring have a ton of potencial, but are very frowned upon :/ I would tell you go pure dex and learn your class blah blah, but you will enjoy warbird alot. Common where's the str, int, dex variation? This game doesn't have items class-specific for a reason. Yes, pros will rule by using it's corresponding gear, but if you want to stand out and try something new, go for it, there's a wide variation on what you can use. I still remember the epic battles I had with ninja during fang cap, warbird vs nerdburd ;)

[Deathofan]

You and I are some of the few who truly understand this concept, Crim.
Didn't you make a voodoo bird and said you had fun using it? There's nothing wrong with it, just saying, few people can use another spect, study it, and master it and that truly is an achievement.

[dudetus]

There taking about pve not pvp.

True viability is best seen in PvP arena against others, in this case Intbird vs Dexbird. Anyone who is generally good bird can use effectively any gear in PvE. The question isn't if the spec is playable in PvE as u could go in tripple spec as well and manage to endure. The real question is if it's viable compared to other builds.


Didn't you make a voodoo bird and said you had fun using it? There's nothing wrong with it, just saying, few people can use another spect, study it, and master it and that truly is an achievement.

I can play any spec with my bird and I have actually done it. I will be Intbird at the very moment it becomes viable compared to pure dex. In this case a cap without talon + wing combo. Intbirds are basically talon birds and during this cap talonset outmatches wandset in every essential term, damage, crit, skill damage, speed, armor.


Once again, true question is viability. Not if it can be used as it is always possible.

[MightyMicah]

Didn't you make a voodoo bird and said you had fun using it? There's nothing wrong with it, just saying, few people can use another spect, study it, and master it and that truly is an achievement.

This is true. However, bear in mind that my voodoo was level 35. Before forgotten, this meant that warbird was the only "successful" build during that time. Pure dex and int hadn't been done before. After forgotten, pure dex means forgotten bow. That's something I won't stoop to.

Also, I wasn't necessarily dissing warbirds. Thank Xazic for that. Warbirds are amazing and I kind of wish I had one from time to time. However, it's annoying when every single bird I see is a warbird, and the random one-in-a-thousand dex bird I see usually completely sucks. I just wish more people would play it the way it was meant to be played like back at sewer cap.

Overall it's just a game. Do whatever is fun and makes you successful. :)

[Zeus]

I don't get this thread.

You ask which is more viable & then when given advice, you do your own thing. If you already have your mind made up then what was the purpose of this thread?

[Caiahar]

Um Apollo.....im going pure dex.....and I left this thread quite a while ago...I already decided im going pure dex....

[Suentous PO]

I was surprised to see the crit on a bird w/crafted 75 int set was higher than dex set (63 vs 55) but that's at the cost of loosing out on ALL other stats.
Yeah pure dex is best, but I'm keeping a warbird for pve. In games without a tank (which I love!) I'm in front gaining agro and setting up massive nature strikes ( ooh no non-traditional how evil.) 40 dodge vs 18, more health, armor, and comparable damage = farm machine.

[tHelonestud]

Um Apollo.....im going pure dex.....and I left this thread quite a while ago...I already decided im going pure dex....
Do not use that tone of voice at Sir Parth

[Caiahar]

I was surprised to see the crit on a bird w/crafted 75 int set was higher than dex set (63 vs 55) but that's at the cost of loosing out on ALL other stats.
Yeah pure dex is best, but I'm keeping a warbird for pve. In games without a tank (which I love!) I'm in front gaining agro and setting up massive nature strikes ( ooh no non-traditional how evil.) 40 dodge vs 18, more health, armor, and comparable damage = farm machine.

Kewl! I might make a warbird pve only :p

[Zeus]

Um Apollo.....im going pure dex.....and I left this thread quite a while ago...I already decided im going pure dex....

Good, you're learning to take advice.

[Caiahar]

Um Apollo.....im going pure dex.....and I left this thread quite a while ago...I already decided im going pure dex....

Good, you're learning to take advice.

._.
@thelonestud: Sir......Parth?

[Zeus]

._.
@thelonestud: Sir......Parth?

It's better than the other cringing titles you've decided to bestow.

[Caiahar]

._.
@thelonestud: Sir......Parth?

It's better than the other cringing titles you've decided to bestow.

Like Great p- nevermind that.
Ill probably treat lots of forumers the same, normally, unless someone helps me, I will give a name of honor to them :D

Stupid I know...

[CrimsonTider]

I was surprised to see the crit on a bird w/crafted 75 int set was higher than dex set (63 vs 55) but that's at the cost of loosing out on ALL other stats.
Yeah pure dex is best, but I'm keeping a warbird for pve. In games without a tank (which I love!) I'm in front gaining agro and setting up massive nature strikes ( ooh no non-traditional how evil.) 40 dodge vs 18, more health, armor, and comparable damage = farm machine.

Everyone knows I love to tank. Pure dex bird, bear, mage... I love the challenge of spamming pots and keeping things moving. My favorite non-traditional "tank" is (dumdumduuuuum) pure int STAFF mage. I love to circle up the mobs, releasing nightmare/weakness along the way, and once they are circled, freeze, lightening, (hopefully roots are laid down by now), and fire blast away.

[Suentous PO]

Everyone knows I love to tank. Pure dex bird, bear, mage... I love the challenge of spamming pots and keeping things moving. My favorite non-traditional "tank" is (dumdumduuuuum) pure int STAFF mage. I love to circle up the mobs, releasing nightmare/weakness along the way, and once they are circled, freeze, lightening, (hopefully roots are laid down by now), and fire blast away.
Haven't tried anything like that in a while, think I'll respec and give that a try :D

[tHelonestud]

Stupid I know...
Acknowledgement is the first step toward fixing it

[MightyMicah]

Everyone knows I love to tank. Pure dex bird, bear, mage... I love the challenge of spamming pots and keeping things moving. My favorite non-traditional "tank" is (dumdumduuuuum) pure int STAFF mage. I love to circle up the mobs, releasing nightmare/weakness along the way, and once they are circled, freeze, lightening, (hopefully roots are laid down by now), and fire blast away.

A perfect example of how you don't need a strength respec in order to tank. Thank you, Crim. :D

[Deathofan]

I can play any spec with my bird and I have actually done it. I will be Intbird at the very moment it becomes viable compared to pure dex. In this case a cap without talon + wing combo. Intbirds are basically talon birds and during this cap talonset outmatches wandset in every essential term, damage, crit, skill damage, speed, armor.


Once again, true question is viability. Not if it can be used as it is always possible.

Yeah, i'm aware wand birds are used as a high-armor-8m-auto-range class just like talon, but were only used in levels were the wand was considerably better than the talon set. Some examples would be toyman birds in low lv (pre-forgotten), voodoo pin bird, I think I saw some decent 56 charmin wand birds when drop rate was increased, if I recall correctly phoenix did an angel wand bird and did really well, just like alvin & pkbanana did with goddess set. I know int set is currently messed up at endgame, and talon set is more viable, but let's hope endgame stats are fixed and some people start creating different builds with different spects.

[Suentous PO]

A perfect example of how you don't need a strength respec in order to tank. Thank you, Crim. :D
Personally I make a distinction between gaining aggro and being a real tank. Prob with gaining aggro is that you loose their attention when someone else does more damage, a problem I had in the past as a pure dex behind a nuke.
Not to argue semantics however.