Warrior Horn of Renew Exploit?

[hotpimp]

What I have been noticing is,
4 warriors with heal/2 sec. invinicbilty and a max geared rogue join games.

The rogue will spam skills and never die, 4 warriors never ending heal.. Like a sorcs never ending stun before patch. Or like rogues charged never ending stun before patch.

Solution? Add a CD of how many times a player can get healed from HoR and/or how many times a person can be invincible during a period of time from HoR.


Opinions?

[Cero]

just leave and find another room that has no warriors,
if theyll gonna nerfed the shield then warriors will cry blood and everyone knows whos next to dominate after warriors. and the chain continues. . . .




ive been playing end game and fought many battles against 5stacking shields. at current 3-4 can be neutralize with 2-3mage's stuns and slags.

[Bless]

Bitter but true, team play is impossible with these wars running around at twink levels just spamming heal...Mind you this happens at endgame guild wars too so dont flame me..

[Infrico]

They should just increase cooldowns for Horn/Packs to 30 seconds, would definetely solve the op'ness in warrior groups and also the never ending battles between warrior vs warrior and it would probably make things more balanced. Worth a shot!

[Yakiniku]

I just started doing endgame pvp again and yea, stacked HoR means you're screwed.

Aimed Shot and stuns are nice and all, but really HoR and warrior teammates with half a brain to time shields are all you need.

Nerf it? Lol I dunno. We might see Crymageddon part 2.

[Bless]

I just started doing endgame pvp again and yea, stacked HoR means you're screwed.

Aimed Shot and stuns are nice and all, but really HoR and warrior teammates with half a brain to time shields are all you need.

Nerf it? Lol I dunno. We might see Crymageddon part 2. Wow I could thank that post x1000. :)

[yuriramos]

This is very true. The team with most warriors normally end up winning the clash especially with synchronized horn. Imho, horn must not have a party effect in pvp.

[Infrico]

Sts just listen to me for one second! Do as I say I command you! Increase Hp packs/Horn to 30 seconds. TRUST ME! I GOT DIS!

[Bless]

Sts just listen to me for one second! Do as I say I command you! Increase Hp packs/Horn to 30 seconds. TRUST ME! I GOT DIS! 30 seconds is way too long, us rogues would have to start hiding and warriors wouod die in 1v1s

[Wowsome]

lmao! this is part of the game, not a real issue.

[JaytB]

Sts just listen to me for one second! Do as I say I command you! Increase Hp packs/Horn to 30 seconds. TRUST ME! I GOT DIS!

This would break PvE.

[GoodSyntax]

Just add a shield immunity, similar to what was done with stun immunity...

STS has obviously added the mechanics in place to keep timers in place to determine whether stun will occur or not, so why not reuse the same code base and do the same for Warrior shields?

[Yakiniku]

lmao! this is part of the game, not a real issue.

I demand that chain stuns be made "part of the game" again. :D. I kid, I kid!

Kidding aside, I'm always leery of nerf threads. If you nerf chain shield, ctf will become Aimed Shot wars again. Then if you nerf Aimed Shot, rogues become meat. Then what? Balance is a really delicate thing. For now, the solution is find a team with the most warriors haha.

Totally agreed on not changing HoR cooldown. Never break pve for the sake of pvp.

[Wowsome]

I demand that chain stuns be made "part of the game" again. :D. I kid, I kid!

Kidding aside, I'm always leery of nerf threads. If you nerf chain shield, ctf will become Aimed Shot wars again. Then if you nerf Aimed Shot, rogues become meat. Then what? Balance is a really delicate thing. For now, the solution is find a team with the most warriors haha.

Totally agreed on not changing HoR cooldown. Never break pve for the sake of pvp.

True! BTW, I am all in for chain stuns too :).

[GoodSyntax]

True! BTW, I am all in for chain stuns too :).

You mean stun lock was actually removed?

Weird, because when a Warrior sneezes from across the arena, my Rogue gets stunned. Then a Sorc comes around the corner and even before a Fireball is launched, I get stunned again.

This one time, at band camp, my Rogue tripped over her bow and got stunned for 2 days.

[Wowsome]

This one time, at band camp, my Rogue tripped over her bow and got stunned for 2 days.

LLOL!

[Yakiniku]

True! BTW, I am all in for chain stuns too :).

Yesssssss. A sympathizer! Today Wowsome, tomorrow the world! :D

Stunlock does bite though (for everyone else). The days where you could stun with a Fireball, unload everything you have, then stun again with charged rifle shot were pretty hilarious. I wish I padded my KDR back then when the getting was good lol.

[Excuses]

Honestly HOR is good as it is.
If you nerf it you will have to suffer for that your tank can't heal you enough too.
IMO rogue is op in this new lvl cap.
I have seen so many rogues do more than 2k dmg with a single AS. Left my warrior's hp(4500) by 30-40%.
4 warriors?
3 rogues with bone chill bow stun like crazy and kill all warriors real quick.
And I have seen a rogue who has 2700 hp, two warriors couldn't kill her within 10 sec (which is another packs for her) and finally a tank came and help her to kill those two tanks.

I don't think warriors are op even with the heals because of their weak dmg.
But rogues are op with so high dmg, dodge and even defense too. (+1k armor, +27k hp and 3 pack.. )

[Spects]

Honestly HOR is good as it is.
If you nerf it you will have to suffer for that your tank can't heal you enough too.
IMO rogue is op in this new lvl cap.
I have seen so many rogues do more than 2k dmg with a single AS. Left my warrior's hp(4500) by 30-40%.
4 warriors?
3 rogues with bone chill bow stun like crazy and kill all warriors real quick.
And I have seen a rogue who has 2700 hp, two warriors couldn't kill her within 10 sec (which is another packs for her) and finally a tank came and help her to kill those two tanks.

I don't think warriors are op even with the heals because of their weak dmg.
But rogues are op with so high dmg, dodge and even defense too. (+1k armor, +27k hp and 3 pack.. )

Lol yeah, we get hardly any kills, cant kill heal pack rogues and what do these guys suggest?
Nerf our only useful skill. Why dont go a step further?
Cut half of our dmg/hp/ armor and increase hor cd to 45sec?
I have no problem becoming a total wimp.
Amusing to see the op class (rogue) complaining...

[GoodSyntax]

I don't think warriors are op even with the heals because of their weak dmg.


I know that very few Warriors could ever be geared up like this....but just saying.

http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?96392-These-stats!!!-Must-see!

[Excuses]

I know that very few Warriors could ever be geared up like this....but just saying.

http://www.spacetimestudios.com/showthread.php?96392-These-stats!!!-Must-see!


Yes.. very rare as you said.
And see his k/d rate. Lol

I would like to see a rogue with same lvl equips.
I guess he can do one shot kill most of warrior. ;)

[Syylent]

Well technically it is not an exploit. It may be overpowering in a match but saying it is an exploit is a little too much.

The same can be said about 4 rogues all critting with AS on you at the same time or a lightning bolts from sorcs.

It would be quite a feat for 4 warriors (with different lag spikes) to fire off their HoR at the exact correct interval as to have 8 seconds of invulnerability. Do the different HoR's heal ticks stack? Can you get 4 ticks from 4 different warriors giving a tick? That I can see as being a little too much. I have to admit I don't know and didn't try to test that.

Level 21 warrior.

I just tested HoR and its efficiency compared to packs. Say a level 21 rogue with 2,000 health (I ran with 2000 at level 21) 3 packs 2000 health rogue 600 each pack or 1800 heal, assuming packs all grabbed at maximum output. HoR puts out low 280 to a high of 350. I gives 6 ticks of health. 1680-2100. About the same pure healing capacity.

People were saying the same thing when the hooks came out. Not to the same degree. Then they got a buff.

The real sad thing? Bonechill bow. It took what a day or two to nerf Storm Sword?

[hotpimp]

You have to pick packs up... You have to stop attacking momentarily to pick ur packs up if ur low.
U can laydown packs everywhete but u will get dragged into it, dash into it, or accidently walk into it.

On the other hand, it doesnt take a rocket scientist to use HoR after the other one runs out.,,

[Syylent]

You have to pick packs up... You have to stop attacking momentarily to pick ur packs up if ur low.
U can laydown packs everywhete but u will get dragged into it, dash into it, or accidently walk into it.

On the other hand, it doesnt take a rocket scientist to use HoR after the other one runs out.,,

Yes, I know you have to push a button and charge it to lay down packs. Then as you are running around with your bow, plinking AS every 2 seconds as mana allows, you have to run over a pack. I realize its complexity for people.

I am sure rocket scientists are the only ones smart enough to figure it out.:eagerness:

[Wowsome]

Yes, I know you have to push a button and charge it to lay down packs. Then as you are running around with your bow, plinking AS every 2 seconds as mana allows, you have to run over a pack. I realize its complexity for people.

I am sure rocket scientists are the only ones smart enough to figure it out.:eagerness:

LLOL!

[Darko]

I cant mess toth hor as its vital for everybody in pve especislly elite.. you nerf that ur killing urself in games as well....u forget hor protects us as well, andand honestly most tanks are dumb as three tanks will use hor all at same time

[Excuses]

I cant mess toth hor as its vital for everybody in pve especislly elite.. you nerf that ur killing urself in games as well....u forget hor protects us as well, andand honestly most tanks are dumb as three tanks will use hor all at same time

Indeed!!
Have to ask 'stay together and time your heal' every time....sick.

[Chili]

This isn't about the skill... This is all about 4 warriors on one time. Dude it's impossible and eventual k/d suicide no matter who you are....

[Darko]

I can say same thing when it comes to three rouges after my shield is gone the can all hit me with three arrows in 1 sec, and if they crit, im dead....mages can stack stun and time (time sucks) , warriors can stack wind and horn, rouges can stack aimed, razor, shadow, piercer, and nox.... every class stacks its strengths.... that's how u win in pvp

[Bless]

I can say same thing when it comes to three rouges after my shield is gone the can all hit me with three arrows in 1 sec, and if they crit, im dead....mages can stack stun and time (time sucks) , warriors can stack wind and horn, rouges can stack aimed, razor, shadow, piercer, and nox.... every class stacks its strengths.... that's how u win in pvp whilst the rogues "stack" their attacks, the rogues dont have a 2sec invulnerability. They can still be attacked however warriors cant be attacked durin that time.

[hotpimp]

5 war v 5 rog

Who wins?
The wars ofc....

[Infrico]

5 war v 5 rog

Who wins?
The wars ofc....

Yep its the same in all level ranges.... but think of it this way.... rogues > warriors 1 v 1... so nerfing warriors wouldn't really make them good in anything...team battles is all they can do. Sorcerers...i really don't know, they're terrible lmao.

[Natrich]

Sorcerers...i really don't know, they're terrible lmao.

5 sorc would trample 5 rogue...you must not know good ones lol

As for 5 sorc vs 5 war, it depends on a lot of factors(stuns, pets, skills, builds, line up heals, etc)

[Syylent]

whilst the rogues "stack" their attacks, the rogues dont have a 2sec invulnerability. They can still be attacked however warriors cant be attacked durin that time.

At lvl 21.. 5 Rogues all AS for max at the same time... 1030? You do the math everything would die.

The only way 5 warriors would be able to stack their HoR at max effeciency is if they are in the same room yelling HoR! and even then there would be 5 seconds of vulnerability giving 5 rogues 10 AS shots and 10 Nox.

[Syylent]

Yep its the same in all level ranges.... but think of it this way.... rogues > warriors 1 v 1... so nerfing warriors wouldn't really make them good in anything...team battles is all they can do. Sorcerers...i really don't know, they're terrible lmao.


I don't know about sorcs being terrible. There are some that look at you and you fall over dead. I have not asked their secret yet.. The sorcs I know can hold their own and more in 1v1. When they are with someone their kill spam begins.

[gundamsone]

Yep its the same in all level ranges.... but think of it this way.... rogues > warriors 1 v 1... so nerfing warriors wouldn't really make them good in anything...team battles is all they can do. Sorcerers...i really don't know, they're terrible lmao.

5 war v 3 rog

Who wins?
The wars ofc...

[Natrich]

At lvl 21.. 5 Rogues all AS for max at the same time... 1030? You do the math everything would die.

The only way 5 warriors would be able to stack their HoR at max effeciency is if they are in the same room yelling HoR! and even then there would be 5 seconds of vulnerability giving 5 rogues 10 AS shots and 10 Nox.

What the heck are you talking about? 5 rogues is the worst team in pvp. You must not play much

[Bless]

At lvl 21.. 5 Rogues all AS for max at the same time... 1030? You do the math everything would die.

The only way 5 warriors would be able to stack their HoR at max effeciency is if they are in the same room yelling HoR! and even then there would be 5 seconds of vulnerability giving 5 rogues 10 AS shots and 10 Nox.

What the heck are you talking about? 5 rogues is the worst team in pvp. You must not play much ikr...

[Excuses]

Ha.

What you guys are talking about is the importance of tank.

But warrior's dmg is just so bad.
Imagine 5 war vs 3 war+2 rogue(or mage).
I have never seen 5 warriors win when other team HAS good tanks.

5 warriors can't easily kill even 2 warriors.
My warrior can stand almost forever against 2 warriors and also it's almost impossible for 2 warriors to kill a good warrior even with a flag.

Every class is important.
Just saying 3k dmg from a single as is a little too much because it brings 1 shot kill back in pvp.

[Darko]

whilst the rogues "stack" their attacks, the rogues dont have a 2sec invulnerability. They can still be attacked however warriors cant be attacked durin that time.

K you said rouges don't have two second invunerability, well tanks don't have option for 250% crit like other classes nor do we have the ability to achieve it... you actually have the ability to get two second invunerability from your teamate :)

[hotpimp]

Rogues dont have 4k health
Rogues dont have 2 heal skills
Rogue dont have damage buffs

[Wowsome]

Rogues dont have 4k health
Rogues dont have 2 heal skills
Rogue dont have damage buffs

Rogues don't need these things.

[Darko]

Rogues dont have 4k health
Rogues dont have 2 heal skills
Rogue dont have damage buffs

Warriors can't have 3 offensive skills to use
Warriors can't stand back and shoot endlessly at a group
Warriors don't have 250% crit chance like other classes
Warriors don't have any skills that can be combined for extra damage (razor, shadow and aimed can all be done at same time)
Warriors have slow mana regen
Warrios cant crit over 1000
Warriors don't have over 400 dps and damage (cept me, lok, and viking)

See I can play that game too...different classes have strengths and weakness. ...learn your classes strength instead of worrying about what it doesn't do...otherwise as shown above we can go back and forth all day long

[Bless]

Warriors can't have 3 offensive skills to use well they do have 2 defensive skills. it all depends on the build
Warriors can't stand back and shoot endlessly at a group thats just common sense...warriors are melee. rogues only chance of surviving from a 5v5 is kiting
Warriors don't have 250% crit chance like other classes other classes dont have 4k hp, can save you from a crit anyday
Warriors don't have any skills that can be combined for extra damage (razor, shadow and aimed can all be done at same time) dmg is a rogues speciality, do u want rogues running around with 2% crit, 40dmg, 4% dodge at endgame?
Warriors have slow mana regen *facepalm* rogues and mages have 2x the mana a warrior has, sorry but this excuse failed.
Warrios cant crit over 1000 theyre not supposed to. theyre a tank class thats why you have the 2 sec invulnerability ROGUES DONT HAVE IT
Warriors don't have over 400 dps and damage (cept me, lok, and viking) god...youre repeating yourself...tank class...

See I can play that game too...different classes have strengths and weakness. ...learn your classes strength instead of worrying about what it doesn't do...otherwise as shown above we can go back and forth all day long replies in bold

[Darko]

replies in bold

Miracle my post was towards someone talking about what rogues don't have...I wasn't being literal. ..or serious... :)

[Excuses]

Then so, it's natural that warrior's dmg is low and bad because it is tank/melee class, and complain that it has too good heal skill to save other party and high hp to take dmg in stead of them?
Now I can't even bear two AS to tank.

Then I guess rogue should not have +1k armor while warrior have 1200 average.

Nonsense.


......


Back to the topic.
Maybe sts should add class limit in each room so not too many one class can be in a room.

[Darko]

Hmm I agree but I think that would present a problem. .. lets say a mage team (rage of mages) wants tp pvp, and all they have is mages. .they couldnt fight as guild?.I still think solution. Is if you don't like who's in room, go to another one. ..simple. .mstjj you make me laugh with your first comment, your so right! !.I

[Syylent]

What the heck are you talking about? 5 rogues is the worst team in pvp. You must not play much

Yeah your right I don't play much.

I can follow logic though. If we are talking about 5 warriors, logic assumes to compare 5 rogues and 5 sorcs.


You must not reason much.

[Darko]

Yeah your right I don't play much.

I can follow logic though. If we are talking about 5 warriors, logic assumes to compare 5 rogues and 5 sorcs.


You must reason much.

5 warriors > 5 rouges
5mages > 5 rouges
5 mages > 5 warriors

1rogue > 1 warrior
1 rogue > 1 mage
1 warrior > 1 mage

That's how pvp is currently....

[Syylent]

5 warriors > 5 rouges
5mages > 5 rouges
5 mages > 5 warriors

1rogue > 1 warrior
1 rogue > 1 mage
1 warrior > 1 mage

That's how pvp is currently....

Thanks.

That is fine. Sorcs are becoming more powerful.

I personlly do not see anything wrong with that. 1v1 rogues are generally alpha male. Warriors are made to last. My sorc is only 18 so I can't really comment. The ones I know generally destroy people.

It is why I have one of each.


I was just commenting on 5 rogues all criting at once with AS. It would be a lot of damage.

[Darko]

Thanks.

That is fine. Sorcs are becoming more powerful.

I personlly do not see anything wrong with that. 1v1 rogues are generally alpha male. Warriors are made to last. My sorc is only 18 so I can't really comment. The ones I know generally destroy people.

It is why I have one of each.


I was just commenting on 5 rogues all criting at once with AS. It would be a lot of damage.

Being hit by it I agree, I have arcane still can be tore apart by rouge

[Excuses]

Hmm I agree but I think that would present a problem. .. lets say a mage team (rage of mages) wants tp pvp, and all they have is mages. .they couldnt fight as guild?.I still think solution. Is if you don't like who's in room, go to another one. ..simple. .mstjj you make me laugh with your first comment, your so right! !.I

Oh. I haven't thought about one class team. Oh yes. Your right.

I just feel wrong when a rogue 1hit kill other rogue or mage. That's it.

[Minty]

I think its pretty well balanced myself

[Syylent]

Being hit by it I agree, I have arcane still can be tore apart by rouge

Ouch.. Yeah have seen the stats of some of your arcane/mythic warriors. It makes me drool. Even my stats with the hammer at 21 was crazy. Damage is king, though. Being able to put out 5 AS shots in 10 seconds and still heal 30% 3 times... crazy.

The thing that got me. They decided to nerf Storm Sword yet leave Bonechill as it is. Sometimes I do not follow their logic.

The rogues in my guild like to use me as their practice dummy. It is painful to see a 5 crit streak in a matter of what 10 seconds? Anywhere from 500-1030 damage at lvl 21/22. I must say these are the best rogues at that level though.

[Darko]

Ouch.. Yeah have seen the stats of some of your arcane/mythic warriors. It makes me drool. Even my stats with the hammer at 21 was crazy. Damage is king, though. Being able to put out 5 AS shots in 10 seconds and still heal 30% 3 times... crazy.

The thing that got me. They decided to nerf Storm Sword yet leave Bonechill as it is. Sometimes I do not follow their logic.

The rogues in my guild like to use me as their practice dummy. It is painful to see a 5 crit streak in a matter of what 10 seconds? Anywhere from 500-1030 damage at lvl 21/22. I must say these are the best rogues at that level though.

See that's the thing with aimed shot, its most powerful skill in the game yet has fastest cd, and doesn't use much mana.......if they upped cd to 5 sec....would be way more balanced

[Syylent]

See that's the thing with aimed shot, its most powerful skill in the game yet has fastest cd, and doesn't use much mana.......if they upped cd to 5 sec....would be way more balanced

Last night.. 3 warriors vs 1 rogue... dead rogue... laughing warriors and bragging about how good they were... Some help came and then 2 rogues vs 3 warriors... 1 warrior would die.... Then another rogue came and 3 rogues vs 3 warriors dead warriors. They would not even give us another fight. They just left.. no more laughing or bragging from them. The only 2 rogues are the top of the food chain though.

I am not sure if it is that bad. I need to play the rogue a bit more. Axe throw is a powerful skill. Maybe reduce its timer a couple seconds or so.

[Energizeric]

I didn't read the previous 2 pages of responses, so maybe someone already suggested this, but there is an easy solution:

Make the 2 seconds of invincibility only apply to the warrior who uses the skill. Problem solved!

No warrior should complain about this since it won't affect himself during pvp, only his party members. And this will solve the issue of multiple warriors using this over and over to stay invincible.

[Bless]

I didn't read the previous 2 pages of responses, so maybe someone already suggested this, but there is an easy solution:

Make the 2 seconds of invincibility only apply to the warrior who uses the skill. Problem solved!

No warrior should complain about this since it won't affect himself during pvp, only his party members. And this will solve the issue of multiple warriors using this over and over to stay invincible. its a good idea but people will hate the idea because it breaks pve, warriors save party members just before a OHKO crit.

[Energizeric]

its a good idea but people will hate the idea because it breaks pve, warriors save party members just before a OHKO crit.

It's broken right now since when you have 3 warriors on a team they are invincible.

[Wowsome]

I didn't read the previous 2 pages of responses, so maybe someone already suggested this, but there is an easy solution:

Make the 2 seconds of invincibility only apply to the warrior who uses the skill. Problem solved!

No warrior should complain about this since it won't affect himself during pvp, only his party members. And this will solve the issue of multiple warriors using this over and over to stay invincible.

recipe for disaster! why not eliminate the warrior class altogether?

[Syylent]

It's broken right now since when you have 3 warriors on a team they are invincible.

No, they are not. Now maybe 4 or 5.. I can't confirm that. I can confirm 3 rogues can beat 3 warriors.

[iacito]

recipe for disaster! why not eliminate the warrior class altogether?

They could make it do that only for PvP.

[Wowsome]

They could make it do that only for PvP.

Let me ask - would you want a team-mate in PvP that has pathetic damage and can not heal you?

Ruin HoR, and that is the final nail in the coffin.

[Skidmarkz]

Ouch.. Yeah have seen the stats of some of your arcane/mythic warriors. It makes me drool. Even my stats with the hammer at 21 was crazy. Damage is king, though. Being able to put out 5 AS shots in 10 seconds and still heal 30% 3 times... crazy.

The thing that got me. They decided to nerf Storm Sword yet leave Bonechill as it is. Sometimes I do not follow their logic.

The rogues in my guild like to use me as their practice dummy. It is painful to see a 5 crit streak in a matter of what 10 seconds? Anywhere from 500-1030 damage at lvl 21/22. I must say these are the best rogues at that level though.

Lol practice dummy...

[Syylent]

Lol practice dummy...

I am pretty good at it too. I have perfecyed the art. I just need traps now and speed passives!

[Skidmarkz]

I am pretty good at it too. I have perfecyed the art. I just need traps now and speed passives!

Don't forget smoke.

[Syylent]

Don't forget smoke.

I did not want to give away all of my secrets. Now the enemy will know my secrets!

[Energizeric]

Let me ask - would you want a team-mate in PvP that has pathetic damage and can not heal you?

Ruin HoR, and that is the final nail in the coffin.

Yes I would if he can tank for me. His job is to block (like the offensive line in football). He doesn't have to heal me, I'm a sorcerer and can heal myself (and the whole party for that matter). Warrior's job is to tank and keep the opposing bad guys away from me while I use my range skills.

That is actually the biggest factor in determining how well I do in PvP. If I have a warrior who can tank then I get loads of kills. Without that I get mobbed and die very fast.

[wowdah]

K you said rouges don't have two second invunerability, well tanks don't have option for 250% crit like other classes nor do we have the ability to achieve it... you actually have the ability to get two second invunerability from your teamate :)

aha pls say rogues not rouges, the latter annoys me :'(

[Wowsome]

Yes I would if he can tank for me.

I stand by my opinion. I have a lot of work to do, so agreed to disagree :p :).

[Darko]

Yes I would if he can tank for me. His job is to block (like the offensive line in football). He doesn't have to heal me, I'm a sorcerer and can heal myself (and the whole party for that matter). Warrior's job is to tank and keep the opposing bad guys away from me while I use my range skills.

That is actually the biggest factor in determining how well I do in PvP. If I have a warrior who can tank then I get loads of kills. Without that I get mobbed and die very fast.

Even with 6000 health I can be oblirated if im hit all at sane time with aimed shots. If vb had a 20% reduction like juggernaught, id agree with you. ..