In your opinion

[Renegade]

Hello everyone, I've wanted to know for a while now how others view pvp. This is only directed to endgame pvp, as I have no idea what goes on in twinking. By now I'm sure most know that PvP is well... Garbage. Nothing we can really do about it as STS is occupied with milking AL.

Mainly the two questions I would like to ask are 'In your opinion, which class/setup takes the least skill to use and is easiest to for pvp'. Secondly 'List 3 things that bother you the most about pvp that you believe should be fixed or alteted'.

I will go ahead and give my opinion first. I hope you all do as well. I know many will disagree but that is why I am curious to see what others have to say. Also if you could give some details on what you chose. That would be great.

For the first question I would definitely have to say pallies (mages in strength sets) take the least amount of skill to use. Granted, being a bear or a bird doesn't take loads of skill but mages in strength sets just get it all. They easily hit just as hard as a bird, they can tank just as much as bears can (have seen bears get out-dodged by pallies), while still having loads of mana. Of course it is all the strength set with its ridiculous stats, but on a mage, even more ridiculous. The fact they have heal and wipe away all debuffs makes it even more powerful.

For the second question my top 3 for problems in pvp are Dodge, Damage, and Auto. Dodge has gotten way too high. When the strength set can reach almost 50% dodge unbuffed... There needs to be a change. In pvp, if your opponent dodges and you don't, well It's safe to say you lost. As for damage, it is way too high as well. There is no fun in getting killed by one shot from
every other class. Hell there's no fun in killing others with 1 shot. Thus damage being so high brings me to the problem with Auto. This mainly affects birds. I don't know why they changed it but it was a terrible idea. Birds can now use 1 skill and because auto triggers when a skill is used, the opponent gets hit twice instantly. Leading to 1 shot kills. If you dont dodge 1 you're dead. Having auto like this is pretty much like double blast but on a single target. 1 skill, hit twice instantly. So yea that's it for me.

For those who do take the time to read through and post. Thank you

[Deathofan]

Hey bro, it's nice to see your words on this matter. Many people are hoping for stats to get fixed by next cap (mainly dodge and dmg), but some dev said they were going to rebalance everything after AL's pvp system was balanced as well. From what i've heard lately, AL has their pvp fairly balanced, they get new content every few days, Devs post on their forums very often and so on, point is, AL has all their attention for the fact that it's filling their wallets. Imo I don't think they have even started on next Campaign yet, but one can only hope the best.

[Deathofan]

As for your questions on which class I consider the easiest to use are Phoenix bow bear and Savage Pally. Man, getting 1 shotted is boring, bird vs bird fights usually are determined by dodge but also on who hits blast first, doesn't blast shot hit 550+ on critical lol, even with the best ring it's more of a lottery game. I would personally say any class can kill any class at endgame (excluding foxes and rhinos) at least with 2 hits. Lets just hope devs are done with AL soon and they come and fix the tons of bugs and work on PvP rebalancement.

[joshtheboss]

Hello everyone, I've wanted to know for a while now how others view pvp. This is only directed to endgame pvp, as I have no idea what goes on in twinking. By now I'm sure most know that PvP is well... Garbage. Nothing we can really do about it as STS is occupied with milking AL.

Mainly the two questions I would like to ask are 'In your opinion, which class/setup takes the least skill to use and is easiest to for pvp'. Secondly 'List 3 things that bother you the most about pvp that you believe should be fixed or alteted'.

I will go ahead and give my opinion first. I hope you all do as well. I know many will disagree but that is why I am curious to see what others have to say. Also if you could give some details on what you chose. That would be great.

For the first question I would definitely have to say pallies (mages in strength sets) take the least amount of skill to use. Granted, being a bear or a bird doesn't take loads of skill but mages in strength sets just get it all. They easily hit just as hard as a bird, they can tank just as much as bears can (have seen bears get out-dodged by pallies), while still having loads of mana. Of course it is all the strength set with its ridiculous stats, but on a mage, even more ridiculous. The fact they have heal and wipe away all debuffs makes it even more powerful.

For the second question my top 3 for problems in pvp are Dodge, Damage, and Auto. Dodge has gotten way too high. When the strength set can reach almost 50% dodge unbuffed... There needs to be a change. In pvp, if your opponent dodges and you don't, well It's safe to say you lost. As for damage, it is way too high as well. There is no fun in getting killed by shot by one shot from
every other class. Hell there's no fun in killing others with 1 shot. Thus damage being so high brings me to the problem with Auto. This mainly affects birds. I don't know why they changed it but it was a terrible idea. Birds can now use 1 skill and because auto triggers when a skill is used, the opponent gets hit twice instantly. Leading to 1 shot kills. If you dont dodge 1 you're dead. Having auto like this is pretty much like double blast but on a single target. 1 skill, hit twice instantly. So yea that's it for me.

For those who do take the time to read through and post. Thank you

Um a pally doesn't tank harder than a bear or hit harder than a bird and mana shield on a pally is just bad. Once it gets into the danger zone which takes two hits you become a sitting duck.

[lonleybird]

Pallys are really hard to get down, from my point of view....

[lonleybird]

Um a pally doesn't tank harder than a bear or hit harder than a bird and mana shield on a pally is just bad. Once it gets into the danger zone which takes two hits you become a sitting duck. Pallys hard to take down from my point of view..

[Deathofan]

A Pally who knows how to Time their Mana Shield very well, can tank better than a bear. Nobounds (Flawless) is a perfect example.

[joshtheboss]

Pallys hard to take down from my point of view..

I do agree with that as a pally I feel like it's either no dodge for me or I dodge almost all add in some well timed drain and a short regen time for heal and pallys can take a while to kill.

[Renegade]

I do agree with that as a pally I feel like it's either no dodge for me or I dodge almost all add in some well timed drain and a short regen time for heal and pallys can take a while to kill.

I've seen you in pvp before. So I should've specified that I meant mages in savage. Seeing as you pvp in a crusher set. A mage in savage is going to have around 40 crit, 45 dodge, and 300+ armor. All unbuffed, so in crusher, you won't kill or survive as easily as a mage in a savage set.

[Zeus]

I've seen you in pvp before. So I should've specified that I meant mages in savage. Seeing as you pvp in a crusher set. A mage in savage is going to have around 40 crit, 45 dodge, and 300+ armor. All unbuffed, so in crusher, you won't kill or survive as easily as a mage in a savage set.

Honestly, I don't have that much of a problem at paladins.

Bears need to know that if their skills aren't landing, it is best to back off and retreat until they do.

[Renegade]

Honestly, I don't have that much of a problem at paladins.

Bears need to know that if their skills aren't landing, it is best to back off and retreat until they do. they do.

With pvp being so easy, of course people aren't going to use logic when playing. But the point of this thread wasn't to have everyone ponder on my opinions. I wanted to hear yours. I wanted to hear what you think is easiest to use and your 3 biggest pet peeves in pvp.

Such as when players are behind an object like trees or walls. They will always be able to land skills before they're even visible on your screen. Things like that.

[The Godlyness]

With pvp being so easy, of course people aren't going to use logic when playing. But the point of this thread wasn't to have everyone ponder on my opinions. I wanted to hear yours. I wanted to hear what you think is easiest to use and your 3 biggest pet peeves in pvp.

Such as when players are behind an object like trees or walls. They will always be able to land skills before they're even visible on your screen. Things like that.

Alright, my biggest pet peeves are:

1.Debuffs.
Currently, the hit percent of bears & mages is simply not going up fast enough to counteract the massive debuffs in play. This is a huge dilemma because for characters like birds, one blind shot effectively renders a bear or mage useless.

2. Armor/Damage
If developers want to increase damage to what they have the value set at currently for each class, respectively, then they need to also increase armor with the same ratio. Currently, armor is too low to counteract the high damage. If you look at L65 sets, L60 sets, L55 sets, L50 sets, the ratio of damage to armor simply keeps increasing in favor of damage. Now, if developers do not want to add more armor for the sake of diminishing the effect of elixirs in PvE, then all they have to do is increase the percentage of damage reduction in PvP to match the damage levels.

3. Combining Tree Hiding & Leaving/Rejoining
I personally feel that if you are hiding behind a tree, the game should detect it and penalize you somehow for the act of cowardice. After all, when one hides, they are taking cover, correct? So, as a result, if one is hiding behind the tree, damage, dodge, or some stat should be reduced for a temporary time period. Also, when hiding behind a tree, leaving & rejoining should not be permitted & if the "angry" face emote is up, leaving should not be permitted either. One more thing that should be done is to increase the duration of the "in-combat" mode.

[Renegade]

Alright, my biggest pet peeves are:

1.Debuffs.
Currently, the hit percent of bears & mages is simply not going up fast enough to counteract the massive debuffs in play. This is a huge dilemma because for characters like birds, one blind shot effectively renders a bear or mage useless.

2. Armor/Damage
If developers want to increase damage to what they have the value set at currently for each class, respectively, then they need to also increase armor with the same ratio. Currently, armor is too low to counteract the high damage. If you look at L65 sets, L60 sets, L55 sets, L50 sets, the ratio of damage to armor simply keeps increasing in favor of damage. Now, if developers do not want to add more armor for the sake of diminishing the effect of elixirs in PvE, then all they have to do is increase the percentage of damage reduction in PvP to match the damage levels.

3. Combining Tree Hiding & Leaving/Rejoining
I personally feel that if you are hiding behind a tree, the game should detect it and penalize you somehow for the act of cowardice. After all, when one hides, they are taking cover, correct? So, as a result, if one is hiding behind the tree, damage, dodge, or some stat should be reduced for a temporary time period. Also, when hiding behind a tree, leaving & rejoining should not be permitted & if the "angry" face emote is up, leaving should not be permitted either. One more thing that should be done is to increase the duration of the "in-combat" mode.

Thank you for contributing. I absoulutely agree with all the points you made.

I also have a bear so I can see where you're coming from with the hit issue. Damage for me is ultimately the biggest problem. When birds and mages don't even have over 600 health. How can birds possibly have blast shot hitting at 600+. Same with mages. Just today a mage hit me with a 681 drain, even though I have the best gear possible, and was fully buffed. Just ridicoulous.

Again, thank you for your input.

[Renegade]

Incase you were a little confused, this is Apollo. I just use this forums account because of the guild <Smile> and a new fad that we have going on around forums.

I do have to disagree with you when you say that damage is the biggest problem. To me, if the armor value increased to effectively counteract the high damage, then damage would not be an issue.

Although, my way of saying it pretty much equates to your way of saying it. It's just the same solution presented two different ways.

Good way to look at it. In the end though, even if they lower damage or raise armor. There's still dodge. Started to think about how many fights I've lost simply because they dodged and I didn't. Lowering dodge and raising armor I feel would improve pvp.

You seem pretty knowledgeable in pvp. Do you happen to know what a mages skill damage is with elite staff set? Curious to know seeing as a bird with 250+ armor fully buffed can still take 680 damage from drain. Must mean their skill damage is in the 700-800 region.

[The Godlyness]

Good way to look at it. In the end though, even if they lower damage or raise armor. There's still dodge. Started to think about how many fights I've lost simply because they dodged and I didn't. Lowering dodge and raising armor I feel would improve pvp.

You seem pretty knowledgeable in pvp. Do you happen to know what a mages skill damage is with elite staff set? Curious to know seeing as a bird with 250+ armor fully buffed can still take 680 damage from drain. Must mean their skill damage is in the 700-800 region.

Unfortunately, I do not. However, I can probably find that information out for you. Either that, or you can simply ask a mage in game with the elite staff. I know that most of them have it in their inventory somewhere! ;)

[joshtheboss]

Good way to look at it. In the end though, even if they lower damage or raise armor. There's still dodge. Started to think about how many fights I've lost simply because they dodged and I didn't. Lowering dodge and raising armor I feel would improve pvp.

You seem pretty knowledgeable in pvp. Do you happen to know what a mages skill damage is with elite staff set? Curious to know seeing as a bird with 250+ armor fully buffed can still take 680 damage from drain. Must mean their skill damage is in the 700-800 region.

I asked a mage with a crafted elite staff set and drain is 865 max when buffed.

[The Godlyness]

I asked a mage with a crafted elite staff set and drain is 865 max when buffed.

Dayum...no wonder staff mages (if they know how to play one right) absolutely destroy my bear.

[joshtheboss]

Dayum...no wonder staff mages (if they know how to play one right) absolutely destroy my bear.

Ya they have the absolutely highrdt damage output when they survive long enough to use it.

[XghostzX]

Hey Regren, I like the approach you took with this thread, in a respective and mature manner. If it were me, I probably would have complained considering I've been way too loyal to this game. Here's my view, which probably has no meaning to STS or much people... I could go into further detail, but I'll give you the basic version:

As you have mentioned, all the stats are way too blown out. The amount of damage that is dealt is not even closely in proportion to the amount of health points a class can attain. STS hasn't been taking a proactive approach to the system. Before AL came out and they were still focused with us, they would actually take into account what we had to say. Unfortunately, by the time they made some changes, they thought it was enough and ventured off into AL when it was released.

The one thing that STS consistently does is increasing the amount of damage, armor, HP, dodge, Crit, etc. that each class has. Rather than keeping everything proportional (that means lowering spell damage, stats, the amount of stats on specific gear) was not taken into account the slightest bit. STS was totally caught off guard this cap - if you keep bloating all the stats, based off of exponential factors, the stats will become obsolete at some point, leading to everyone one shotting each other.

Basically, it comes down to two key things in order to win: 1.) If you're fully buffed, while your opponent isn't. 2.) If you dodge the entire time.

The fact that everyone can one-shot at different times, or by catching someone a little off guard is pathetic. What happened to having skill, and needing to use your skills at the right time, and making sure the skills you use correspond with your teammates to be efficient?

Spell damage is way too high. Look at how much the spell "Drain Life" does. If a mage has a staff and is fully geared, as well as full INT, then our drain ALONE is more than our healthpoints. PL might as well only need 2 skills for this game.

Going back to your original question as to what class is more powerful - I'd disagree with a pally. Because 1v1 with the typical 'go' is so popular (which I hate), let's take a bird and a pally. Both classes have spells that do high damage, can potentially dodge (bird can dodge more), and can attack from a 12m range. Honestly, don't even take armor into account. All of this damage makes armor nearly useless in a broad perspective. Anyways, a bird's spells are instant. You press one spell, and it'll hit the target immediately. On the other hand, a mage/str mage has spells that are all delayed. Therefore, a bird can hit it's spells far more quicker than a mage can, having the advantage on any mage (considering both players are strategic/smart).

A 1v1 with a Pure mage Vs. bird is a joke. Mages are forced to kite (and by kiting, I mean that every meter counts. Taking one step in the wrong direction = insta-kill.) Our mana shields are useless... we (mages) simply aren't quick enough to kill you (birds).

Bears are only good when they're buffed. Going back to what I previously said, buffs are taking over this game and the way we approach FFA fights. A bear is pretty much overpowered, unless it either: A.) Misses with Beckon. 2.) Is not buffed. 3.) Doesn't dodge. It can't even rely on it's armor because, once again, armor in end game is obsolete. All you need to do is spam your skills in order to beat a bear unbuffed.

Don't even get me started with Rhino's and Foxes for endgame. They don't even compete in 1v1's, and for FFA matches, they're only good when other players aren't targeting you. My rhino is a great flag carrier for CTF, but averages 2 kills a game. (Although, it's the class that requires even the smallest amount of support/teamwork with it's reviving, healing, damage buff for party, and tanking for a good 3 seconds when buffed.)

There's also this weird glitch. If you run towards an opponent, and retreat, then they run at you, they get an extra meter on all of their 12m attacks. It really defeat the purpose of kiting; I can't even use my classic "fire/ice" combo to kite sufficiently. I always die now. If someone knows what I'm talking about and could describe this glitch better, I'd really appreciate that.

Hopefully I got my point across. If STS could do one thing (that is, they don't put all the stats in proportion with one another), simply increase the amount of HP we have BY A LOT. I'm talking something like 4-6x the amount of HP we already have?





I'm doing this on mobile, so I apologize if anything seems a little too wordy/bad grammar. I get bored when I'm in a 2 hour car ride home.

[MightyMicah]

Hello everyone, I've wanted to know for a while now how others view pvp. This is only directed to endgame pvp, as I have no idea what goes on in twinking. By now I'm sure most know that PvP is well... Garbage. Nothing we can really do about it as STS is occupied with milking AL.

Mainly the two questions I would like to ask are 'In your opinion, which class/setup takes the least skill to use and is easiest to for pvp'. Secondly 'List 3 things that bother you the most about pvp that you believe should be fixed or alteted'.

I will go ahead and give my opinion first. I hope you all do as well. I know many will disagree but that is why I am curious to see what others have to say. Also if you could give some details on what you chose. That would be great.

For the first question I would definitely have to say pallies (mages in strength sets) take the least amount of skill to use. Granted, being a bear or a bird doesn't take loads of skill but mages in strength sets just get it all. They easily hit just as hard as a bird, they can tank just as much as bears can (have seen bears get out-dodged by pallies), while still having loads of mana. Of course it is all the strength set with its ridiculous stats, but on a mage, even more ridiculous. The fact they have heal and wipe away all debuffs makes it even more powerful.

For the second question my top 3 for problems in pvp are Dodge, Damage, and Auto. Dodge has gotten way too high. When the strength set can reach almost 50% dodge unbuffed... There needs to be a change. In pvp, if your opponent dodges and you don't, well It's safe to say you lost. As for damage, it is way too high as well. There is no fun in getting killed by one shot from
every other class. Hell there's no fun in killing others with 1 shot. Thus damage being so high brings me to the problem with Auto. This mainly affects birds. I don't know why they changed it but it was a terrible idea. Birds can now use 1 skill and because auto triggers when a skill is used, the opponent gets hit twice instantly. Leading to 1 shot kills. If you dont dodge 1 you're dead. Having auto like this is pretty much like double blast but on a single target. 1 skill, hit twice instantly. So yea that's it for me.

For those who do take the time to read through and post. Thank you

All I can say is welcome to the forums! Please post more. We need more people like you!

I'd love to try and add to the topic, but unfortunately I haven't done endgame in a long while. Just thought I'd post anyways and let you know I appreciate what you're doing and how you're going about doing it! Keep it up :)

[Frioadr]

i don't know about the other bears, but at this point i would take the 15 minute bear battles from mount fang over this. At least then you could use knowledge and skill to best your opponent when you found appropriate

[Deathofan]

All I can say is welcome to the forums! Please post more. We need more people like you!

He isn't new on forums neither in game lol. Lets just say he was #1 bird on LB ;)

[Blind]

^ I think you have confused him with ReGRenade, this guy is ReNEgade.

[Deathofan]

I double checked and it's indeed Renegade :encouragement:
who's Regrenade lol?

[Blind]

I'm confused now as well,

You said the OP is not a new player but is a veteran

Regrenade is a veteran

Renegade (the one who posted) isn't

Right?

EDIT: or did someone recently rename to Renegade?

Cause i know Regrenade is an old archer pvper

[Deathofan]

Renegade is a veteran, check your Pm.

[Waug]

About balance, I think I talked a lot about in past. No mood to say all these, again and again.

Well, a mage 1) second best damaging class, not even meant to be the highest damaging class as bird 2) with a shield and 1h weapon 3) low damaging, defensive build i.e, str means pally

doing more damage then

a bird 1) meant to be the highest damaging class 2) 2h weapon i.e bow 3) highest damaging, offensive build i.e pure dex.

Great game sts, now the ironic part. That str mage starts tree hugging like that tree is attractive and they're trying to excite it, lol randomly press mana shield, so that the bird miss their precious blast, if the bird manage to kill the mage, she says "op nub bird", irony at it's highest point.

[MightyMicah]

He isn't new on forums neither in game lol. Lets just say he was #1 bird on LB ;)

Hmm, well he still needs to post more. I haven't seen so much common sense in one place in a long while.

[XghostzX]

I'm confused now as well,

You said the OP is not a new player but is a veteran

Regrenade is a veteran

Renegade (the one who posted) isn't

Right?

EDIT: or did someone recently rename to Renegade?

Cause i know Regrenade is an old archer pvper

Regren is a vet

[Zeus]

Regren is a vet

Regrenade and I go way back.

[XghostzX]

Regrenade and I go way back.

We go back... even.. further pfft.