crafting mechanics in Humania: good job STS

I haven't seen a thread addressing the crafting mechanics in Humania, so here goes. Techno Email mentioned that the way crafting works in Humania is an experiment with variations on previous themes. IMO, the crafting mechanics in Humania represent a great overall design. Here are the facets of crafting and why I think it's a really good model for future crafting designs.

1. Crafting components are much simplified. Especially compared to Mt. Fang, Humania's design is much easier to understand. In Fang and other places, we had to get components to make other components that then went into the final crafted product. In Humania, there's just direct crafting in a single, straightforward way. This makes it much easier to keep track of what to get and how far along you are.

2. Recipes are much more available. In pretty much every other crafting area since Sewers, the recipes were extremely hard to come by. This meant you pretty much had to either buy already crafted items or spend plat to skip the recipe. Humania is the first area where it's reasonable that anyone who wants to can farm or buy everything they need to craft without spending plat.

3. Daily quests are well balanced. All of the components for crafting are available for a reasonable amount of effort or gold. Although it's still really hard to farm the weapons themselves, all the other pieces are available through daily quests. The diamonds are time-consuming to get, but it is reasonable for someone to use the quest to get enough diamonds to craft an entire set if they are willing to put in the time. This was also true of Fang, though not of Nuri's. And I think it deserves a mention that originally diamonds could only be farmed, but STS decided to add a quest path based on feedback, and that turned out to be a great move to keep players motivated and keep the price of crafting down. Had they not done so, only very rich or very hard-core farmers could have ever gotten crafted gear.

4. Gear is on par with area. I'm not sure if everyone feels this way, but I think the crafted gear is a good match for the Humania areas. It's good enough to keep players effective, but not overpowered such that they can completely steamroll over the maps. I only have the str gear tank set, but that seems good to me, and I see other classes doing a good job with their sets.

In summary, this crafting design is a very good one. I hope STS uses this as a model for how future areas' crafting is set up.

I disagree. I think with the daily quests the results will ultimately be that there are more crafted items out there than non-crafted. I think crafted items should be rare and very expensive. But as more and more diamonds get farmed, more and more items will be crafted, and eventually the price of the diamonds will be very low.

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Originally Posted by Energizeric

I disagree. I think with the daily quests the results will ultimately be that there are more crafted items out there than non-crafted. I think crafted items should be rare and very expensive. But as more and more diamonds get farmed, more and more items will be crafted, and eventually the price of the diamonds will be very low.

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And why is this a problem? This goes back to the "mobile" argument where STS wants everyone to enjoy the game without having to spend weeks trying to find gear. I am very opposed to monopolizing items to where only those who can play for 7-8 hours a day get the drops. As I have said many times, games are meant to be fun, not work. I come home to relax and enjoy games and not put in another 3-4 hours of "work". I am not saying we revert back to AO2 days where pinks dropped like rain. Balefort Sewers was a VERY successful campaign: people made a lot of gold, MORE people pvp'ed, and gear was still "rare" enough that many farmed.

Nuri's was a HUGE fail, not because of the design (maybe the second best designed camapaign STS has put out), but because the drop rates were so ridiculous for gear and crafting materials that noone "enjoyed" it.

I won't play a game that is not "fun". Period.

I agree with Crimson!

I mean, what are you looking to get for an OBD - 1 million? This is a casual game, that should be fun to play, has some social aspects and other side quests and distractions to keep it interesting.

How saturated was the market for Fang crafted? It seemed like everyone had at least one set if not multiples, but that did not cripple the economy for the items until Humania was released.

The OBD quest is hard, but attainable for casual players, assuming you are in a good guild, or can get on a roll with a good group.

The best addition, IMHO is the fact that there are set bonuses on the NON crafted items as well. This allows my mage to focus on damage with the Hula set, and when I am in the mood to farm, I can chase the Crafted set. I don't feel so obligated to get the crafted set, because the Hula fits my play style better.

There was nothing worse than tooling along in Fang, farming for Lillith or Orlok and the only pink that dropped in days was a non-craftable that you couldn't even sell in CS. At least now, these non-craftables are holding value and are, in all honesty, desirable items. If I get a non-craftable drop, I don't feel so disappointed this time around.

I think that the non-crafted set bonuses will keep the crafting surge in check. I mean, if some of the non-crafted sets are actually better in some cases, why craft at all? If you are happy with your sets, you won't feel so compelled to farm relentlessly, so that keeps supply and demand in check.

Yes I agree that the Sewers was a good campaign, but in the sewers the recipes were/are very rare drops and cannot be purchased for plat. So while the crafting items could be gotten from the daily quests, the recipes were expensive rare drops. So the net result is much fewer crafted items than non-crafted. Look in the CS any day and that is what you will see -- many more non-crafted items for sale than crafted.

On the other hand, Nuri was the opposite... The recipes could be purchased for plat, but the crafting items were the rare drops. I believe in Nuri the glyph blade steels were simply too rare. The drop rate on those should have been a bit higher. But the same result, fewer crafted items than non-crafted.

Fang on the other hand is a complete bust. The recipes can be purchased for plat and the crafting items can be gotten from easy daily quests. The net result is 5 crafted items for sale in CS for every non-crafted item. And the crafted fang sets can be purchased very cheaply. I think crafted orlok set goes for about 300k these days. You cannot even get a Fortified Shield for that much let alone a complete crafted gemstone set.

From the look of things, it appears that Humania gear is headed in this direction and will be common like the Fang gear. I would expect in a couple of months that 90% of the Humania gear in the CS will be crafted. I also expect that ocean blue diamonds will go down in price to around 20k or so over time. That crafted sand walker set that now goes for 4m will probably cost about 500k in 2-3 months. The only thing that may hold prices a bit higher is that the non-crafted pink item drops have become a bit scarce since they lowered the drop rate on those, and so perhaps the non-crafted gear prices may hold. But I'd expect that in time there won't be much difference in price between crafted and non-crafted.

One thing I find interesting about this discussion is the definition of "good" is very different for different people. To me, a "good" system is one that is accessible and fun to people who are casual players. That is, they don't have to be super rich or farm 8 hours a day to have a realistic shot at crafting. Others, like Energizeric, define "good" as a system where crafted items are rare and hold their cash value for longer, i.e. an unusual thing to see/have.

So it really comes down to a difference in philosophy as to what goal the game should be aiming for. For Fang and Humania, it seems pretty clear that STS is going for a lower degree of difficulty on crafting so it's available to more players. Personally, I think this is the right goal for STS to shoot for, because otherwise what is there for the casual endgame player to do? If not working on crafting a gear set, then they have really nothing to do other than I suppose farm gold and/or kills, which gets really boring really quickly. The reality of PL as it stands today is that it's not reasonable for a casual player to farm anything of value at all...that can only be achieved by hard-core, multi-hour, high-dedication play. I think STS has made the right choices for crafting In order not to disenfranchise the casual players. That is after all one of the stated goals of PL: to be fun and challenging even for those who can't play that much.

I see your point. I think you would classify me as the more "hardcore" type of player who plays a few hours per day on average. So if getting the best gear in game only takes me a couple of weeks, then what else is there for me to do after that? I will become bored.

There always needs to be some better gear for me to work towards or else I will have no reason to play, and will simply take time off until the next expansion. I'm glad dragon gear is so expensive because at least I still have something to work for now that I've gotten my crafted set.

Yup, it's a tough line STS is trying to walk. They want something for the casual people to go for, yet they don't want to completely lose the hardcore audience either. I think simply realizing that there are two kinds of players here is pretty useful in itself. And the two audiences are in some ways at odds: make it easy for the casual player and you automatically make it probably too easy for the hardcore ones. I guess having two sets of goals is inevitable then for the two player types, which STS is currently supporting by lowering the bar for crafted stuff but also introducing the other class of stuff with the dragon gear. Hopefully they continue to support both so there's always something for both types of players to strive for.

I think STS has stuck a nice balance by introducing set bonuses on non-crafted items.

The introduction of Elite items, Dragon sets and others are terrific for hardcores, while the non-crafted set bonuses are nice for casual players.

It's hard to walk that line without alienating one group or the other, but I think that STS has been doing a commendable job. You can see the progress from Sewers to Nuri, then Fang and Humania with their balancing act.

At this point, I still go back into the Shadow Caves and the Sewers to farm (with no luck at all), but it at least gives me something challenging to go for. Sure I can go to Alien Oasis if I need a pink fix, but there are still tough drops to attain for the more-than-casual, but not quite hardcore player like me.

We are fortunate that there are challenging maps to clear and easy ones, challenging gear to find and super easy ones as well. There is a lot of variety in game that should be able to keep us entertained, hardcore or casual.

I have to say that for the first time, I am crafting by myself my gear, rather than just buying it crafted from CS.

Sts have done a good job on crafting this time.

P.S. I would like the OBD gem quest to require 25 furs or at least the boss to give you 2 furs some time (like the keeper does in the cyber quest), but you could say I'm selfish :P