CD Comparison and suggestions (Cool down time)and mana output

SO I play all three classes and have noticed quite a bit of disparity amongst skills and cool down time.. Im going to break each class down and show you what I mean

Warrior :
Offensive:
SKyward SMash (75.8 mana, 4 sec cool down)
Chest Splitter (70.8 mana, 3 sec cool down)
Windmill (86.65 mana, 10 sec cool down)
Axe throw (70.8 mana, 7 sec cool down)

Defensive
Juggernaut (73.8 mana, 45 sec cool down) (thats not a typo)
Rally Cry (60.05 mana, 20 sec cool down) (most worthless skill ever... literrally what a waste)
Vengeful (63.05 mana, 25 sec cool down)
Horn of renew (64.7 mana, 15 sec cool down)



Rogue:

Offensive:
SHadow Piercer (85 mana 2 sec CD)
Noxious Bolt (69 mana, 2 sec cd)
Aimed shot (69 mana, 2 sec cd)
SHadow storm (74 mana, 5 sec cd)
Entangling trap (53 mana, 10 sec cd)

Defensive(still offensive)
Shadow Viel (53 mana 20 sec cd)
Razor shield (85 mana, 20 sec cd)
COmbat medic (53 mana, 15 sec cd)


Mage

Offensive :

Fireball (136 mana, 4 sec CD)
Lighting strike ( 119 mana, 3 sec cd)
Gale Force ( 119 mana, 5.5 sec cd)
Frost Bolt (119 mana, 3 sec cd)

Defensive:

Arcane Shield (102 mana, 30 sec cd)
Time shift (136 mana, 10 sec cd)
Curse (102 mana, 15 sec cd)
Lifegiver (119 mana, 15 sec cd)



so whats yoru take on this?? IMO, something just jumps out at you... The three classes have strengths. A warriors strength is defense, so its most beneficial skill would be juggernaut... however its best skill has a ridiculous CD time of 45 seconds. no other class is even close to 45 seconds on any skill. Lets look at the next fact. One aimed shot can do more damage than 2 windmills. thats a fact. two windmills take 20 seconds. I can do 10 aimed shots in that time, yet one does just as much damage as two windmills. Mages are supposed to have the best mana, yet all of their skills use a ridiculous amount of mana, and there ONLY skill to get back mana doesnt do anything really except to its allies...My suggestions go as follows

warrior :
Juggernaut needs to be reduced to 30 sec cd. or combine it with vengeful and rally cry(so vengeful is a true defensive buff) and create some new skills for warriors... its much needed..
Increase damage , lower cd and mana output.

Rogue :
higher cd, like aimed shot to 4 seconds would be nice.... get rid of shadow storm and give them some type of defensive armor type skill

Mage:
Let lifegiver restore more mana for the mage. fireball lowered to 119 like all other offesive skills.


plain and simple offensive skill should range from 4-10. defensive should be 15-30



btw i love playing with my mage and rogue... since they are so op right now... i feel bad for warrior... they cant solo any boss because their damage output is like getting hit with a fluffy pillow.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Darko

SO I play all three classes and have noticed quite a bit of disparity amongst skills and cool down time.. Im going to break each class down and show you what I mean

Warrior :
Offensive:
SKyward SMash (75.8 mana, 4 sec cool down)
Chest Splitter (70.8 mana, 3 sec cool down)
Windmill (86.65 mana, 10 sec cool down)
Axe throw (70.8 mana, 7 sec cool down)

Defensive
Juggernaut (73.8 mana, 45 sec cool down) (thats not a typo)
Rally Cry (60.05 mana, 20 sec cool down) (most worthless skill ever... literrally what a waste)
Vengeful (63.05 mana, 25 sec cool down)
Horn of renew (64.7 mana, 15 sec cool down)



Rogue:

Offensive:
SHadow Piercer (85 mana 2 sec CD)
Noxious Bolt (69 mana, 2 sec cd)
Aimed shot (69 mana, 2 sec cd)
SHadow storm (74 mana, 5 sec cd)
Entangling trap (53 mana, 10 sec cd)

Defensive(still offensive)
Shadow Viel (53 mana 20 sec cd)
Razor shield (85 mana, 20 sec cd)
COmbat medic (53 mana, 15 sec cd)


Mage

Offensive :

Fireball (136 mana, 4 sec CD)
Lighting strike ( 119 mana, 3 sec cd)
Gale Force ( 119 mana, 5.5 sec cd)
Frost Bolt (119 mana, 3 sec cd)

Defensive:

Arcane Shield (102 mana, 30 sec cd)
Time shift (136 mana, 10 sec cd)
Curse (102 mana, 15 sec cd)
Lifegiver (119 mana, 15 sec cd)



so whats yoru take on this?? IMO, something just jumps out at you... The three classes have strengths. A warriors strength is defense, so its most beneficial skill would be juggernaut... however its best skill has a ridiculous CD time of 45 seconds. no other class is even close to 45 seconds on any skill. Lets look at the next fact. One aimed shot can do more damage than 2 windmills. thats a fact. two windmills take 20 seconds. I can do 10 aimed shots in that time, yet one does just as much damage as two windmills. Mages are supposed to have the best mana, yet all of their skills use a ridiculous amount of mana, and there ONLY skill to get back mana doesnt do anything really except to its allies...My suggestions go as follows

warrior :
Juggernaut needs to be reduced to 30 sec cd. or combine it with vengeful and rally cry(so vengeful is a true defensive buff) and create some new skills for warriors... its much needed..
Increase damage , lower cd and mana output.

Rogue :
higher cd, like aimed shot to 4 seconds would be nice.... get rid of shadow storm and give them some type of defensive armor type skill

Mage:
Let lifegiver restore more mana for the mage. fireball lowered to 119 like all other offesive skills.


plain and simple offensive skill should range from 4-10. defensive should be 15-30



btw i love playing with my mage and rogue... since they are so op right now... i feel bad for warrior... they cant solo any boss because their damage output is like getting hit with a fluffy pillow.

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^ indeed on it all, especially jugg, cd is way too long for how long it is actual affect. Also combining the two/three skills to make one special for tanking.

In vengeful addes 500 health and reduction 20% armor like jugg, (tanking) that wo uld be awesome...and veryb useful in pve as well

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Darko

In vengeful addes 500 health and reduction 20% armor like jugg, (tanking) that wo uld be awesome...and veryb useful in pve as well

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Indeed, or just combine venge and jugg, venge should have taunt and damage reduction, as well as protects from movement impairments.

I definitely understand your point about warriors not being able to solo a boss. Keep in mind sorcerers cannot either as we are too squishy and die from one hit. Rogues seem to have a big advantage when it comes to PvE.

On the other hand, they have to be very careful with any changes they make as it could affect PvP as well. Right now I feel like PvP is pretty balanced. But that could change very easily with any big changes being made. For example, it's impossible for a sorcerer to beat a warrior in PvP without stunning him repeatedly. Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Juggernaut cause immunity to stuns? If the cooldown was lowered, that would have a huge impact on PvP.

I'm not saying they shouldn't make changes, but they have to be very careful and make the changes pretty even.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Energizeric

I definitely understand your point about warriors not being able to solo a boss. Keep in mind sorcerers cannot either as we are too squishy and die from one hit. Rogues seem to have a big advantage when it comes to PvE.

On the other hand, they have to be very careful with any changes they make as it could affect PvP as well. Right now I feel like PvP is pretty balanced. But that could change very easily with any big changes being made. For example, it's impossible for a sorcerer to beat a warrior in PvP without stunning him repeatedly. Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Juggernaut cause immunity to stuns? If the cooldown was lowered, that would have a huge impact on PvP.

I'm not saying they shouldn't make changes, but they have to be very careful and make the changes pretty even.

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Indeed, although the issue lies there, if you use vengeful blood you have mana hp and dmg. Though you die faster, if you use jugg, you survive longer and wont be stunned, but you also will not do very much dmg. Also, jugg is only on for 15 seconds of the 45 it takes to cool down, I often die before I can use the skill again.

I seriously don't see aimed going up in cd. We are a fast class and not supposed to wait for our shots and just shoot useless auto attackes..

I will say this.... right now each of the classes is very extreme in their differences. In PL the classes all had lots of overlap, and often times you had birds using bear gear, or dex bears, and there wasn't really that much of a difference between the classes. In AL the class differences are very clearly defined and are huge. It seems STS likes it that way and does not want to make changes that will make the classes more similar to each other.

So is the case with Sorcerer when we use Arcane Shield... available like Warrior Juggernaut for 15 secs and 30 Secs cooldown..
Shield goes... we get squished like Talc..

Rogues... Still op...

I guess thats what im gauging it towards in pl and sl all classes had clearly defines strengths and weaknesses. In al its the rogue show. Think about it, (let's give them the highest damage, highwst dps, make them not have to wait long to use that damage and gice them instant health every 15 seconds,and also the abilitiy to inrease their health., warriors can't increase damage why should rogues be able to increase health) in sl cammandos (warriors) were damn good tanks that did tons of damage...., the rogue like character had high crit and fast attacks but it was more like this :
Commando :2 hits, 500 damage placed 5 seconds elapsed
Rogue : 4 hits 800 damage placed in 5 seconds elapsed.

See rogues were quicker but their individual hits were nt as powerful. And equality was there. one warrior hit was higher but theybwere slower so over time (cause rogue is faster) theyd produce more damage. Now here is al:

Warrior : 2 hits , 500 damage , 10 seconds elapsed
Rogue : 10 hits , 5000-7500 damage, 10 seconds elapsed

This is the main problem right now...if we lowered their damage output we could higher warrios damage but lower warriors health....there indicidual hits are high plus they r more frequent...a single rogue can do an elite map faster than four warriors, or four mages or any combo of four warriors and mages....that's not balance at all...each class should have a clearly defined weakness....mage is health, warrior is damage.....what's rogues???they have Highest crit, highest damage, highest dodge,, skills use least mana, fastest skills, best damage skills, fast, long range skills, long range melee, ability to duel spec (sacrafice damage for health), best pets, I mean their only noticable weakness is mana, but they have highest regean for mana out of any class so that negates that...and I'm not some crying warrior..I use a rogue too and its op imo.

I agree that in PvE rogues are at a huge advantage. All you have to do is look at the timed runs and it's almost all full rogue teams with an occasional warrior or sorcerer thrown into the mix. In PL the mages were best at clearing the mobs, the birds were best at taking down the boss, and warriors were somewhere in the middle and could do both effectively, but not as fast. Still, all 3 classes were able to solo if they were good enough of a player with good enough gear. In AL it's tough for a full mythic sorcerer or warrior to even solo a non-elite Nordr boss.

This is a definite problem. Perhaps the solution is to make some adjustments that are only for PvE and do not affect PvP. STS has done such things before, so maybe they can do that here.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Energizeric

This is a definite problem. Perhaps the solution is to make some adjustments that are only for PvE and do not affect PvP. STS has done such things before, so maybe they can do that here.

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THIS is a great suggestion. When you look at it the way Darkko puts it...yeah, rogues seem pretty OP lol.

Yeah pve needs a definate change......I wish new skills would be introduced....I do miss pl where every class was needed.. a bear had an epic move with pulling a group and stomping (forgot name of skill) . I remeber the dsrk ca erens made elite look like child's play...you had to have each class to beat the queen...rogues don't need the other class....warriors and mages need rogues though...the funniest moment I had was me and a tank and rogue were doing arena...I waa full mythic with arcane, other tank waa full mythic...the rogue died from lag, and me and the tank were left vs bloodhammer. ...both of us even with mythic n arcane didn't produce enough damage to decrease his life. His health regean was faster and quicker..thata ridiculous imo

Before I go ahead and dismantle your arguments later - I would like to point out that the information you posted above is not even the correct mana usage per skill if you're going to compare a 31 warrior's mana per skill vs a low level rogue's mana per skill or mage's mana per skill. It was pretty obvious just looking at your initial post that the comparison was skewed - as you level up skills take more mana. Let me fix it for you :

Warrior (Level 31)
Offensive:
SKyward SMash (75.8 mana, 4 sec cool down)
Chest Splitter (70.8 mana, 3 sec cool down)
Windmill (86.65 mana, 10 sec cool down)
Axe throw (70.8 mana, 7 sec cool down)
Defensive
Juggernaut (73.8 mana, 45 sec cool down) (thats not a typo)
Rally Cry (60.05 mana, 20 sec cool down) (most worthless skill ever... literally what a waste)
Vengeful (63.05 mana, 25 sec cool down)
Horn of renew (64.7 mana, 15 sec cool down)
___________________________________
Rogue (level 31)
Offensive:
SHadow Piercer (107.5 mana 2 sec CD)
Noxious Bolt (87 mana, 2 sec cd)
Aimed shot (87 mana, 2 sec cd)
SHadow storm (92 mana, 5 sec cd)
Entangling trap (66.5 mana, 10 sec cd)
Defensive(still offensive)
Shadow Viel (66.5 mana 20 sec cd)
Razor shield (107.5 mana, 20 sec cd)
COmbat medic (66.5 mana, 15 sec cd)
__________________________________________
Mage (level 31)
Offensive:
Fireball (162 mana, 4 sec CD)
Lighting strike ( 143.5 mana, 3 sec cd)
Gale Force ( 143.5 mana, 5.5 sec cd)
Frost Bolt (143.5 mana, 3 sec cd)
Defensive:
Arcane Shield (123 mana, 30 sec cd)
Time shift (164 mana, 10 sec cd)
Curse (123 mana, 15 sec cd)
Lifegiver (143.5 mana, 15 sec cd)

Let me also point out that a full mythic warrior has around 4700hp and 930mana, full rogue 2900-3100hp and 1300mana, and full mage 3200hp and 4400mana.

Doing quick division per skill per mana pool on each classes arguably best skill and faster cool down skill -
Warrior : Skyward or Chestsplitter - 70.8mana / 930 mana = 7.6%
Rogue : Aimed shot - 87mana / 1300mana = 6.6%
Mage : tricky... I'll just choose lightning (could argue a lot of the skills are useful) - 143.5mana / 4400 = 3.2% (shoot they are going to run out of mana REALLY quick)

I'll go ahead and continue my critique on your post later. But next time use the correct information before we announce to the entire AL world issues with class. And, I do all my critiquing with the utmost love for you Darko :)

Also, per the post above - bloodhammer has an red zone skill where he "eats you" and absorbs damage if you are in the red zone. Most tanks just stand in the red zone and let Bloodhammer heal himself. That's not to say that's what you did, sometimes it glitches and he hits other "items" and he heals.

Tabks have to most of our skills aren't long range like cs. We can pew pew from a distance....my apoligies indidnt realize mana output increased by level. .....you cant argue how op rogues damage is though.....please gonplay pl and sl and you'll see what I'm saying