The PVP Discussion

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12-28-2013, 01:55 AM
Stevenmc

The PVP Discussion

THE END GAME PVP SET DISCUSSION!
Please do not troll or flame, discuss opinions only!

I think I stand beside everyone when I say dodge needs to be nerfed in endgame Pvp. Dodge here and there is okay, its cool to be able to say "Wow I got lucky with my dodge." But when 1 out of the 10 times you manage to kill someone who is using a dodge skill, and they say, "Wow where is my dodge?" I think that there is a problem. I do not think the problem is the Savage set or Swift set themselves, yet the skills that increase the dodge. I say this because how a Mage wearing one of these sets, is completely kill-able, because they don't have these increase dodge skills. Before I go into more detail, some people may say to me, "Just make a bear, and get over it." I did just make a bear, and it is good and really easy to kill everything. That's great, WooHoo. Pull Stomp is the most fun thing to do in pvp. So, anyway, here are my reasons.

Reasons to nerf the dodge!

-Fights against dodge seem to me to be unfair, no matter how much skill one has in pvp, YOU CAN NOT KILL WHAT YOU CAN NOT HIT.
-In CTF, I have watched a bear steal the flag, then dodge his way to the other side of the map to score even when he has 2 damage characters attacking him.
-It makes debuffs for a mage far from useful, I 1v1'ed multiple bears with multiple skill builds, including debuff builds and pure damage builds, to no success. They either don't land or your die soon after using them.
-It will bring back some of the skill it used to take to pvp, and maybe some oldies who quit because of the pvp situation.

Since the thread is open to opinions to either side of the argument here is a section on reasons to keep dodge. I will put any VALID AND REASONABLE reasons people come up with here. I have one of my own that I do see.

Reasons to keep dodge the same!
-In PVE, dodge is useful for surviving mobs in endgame.

Solutions!!
-Increase health, so that the PVE players stand a chance even without the dodge.
-This is a long shot, but make it so debuffs actually hit and are effective, so that mages can counter the dodge.
-If not reducing the dodge skill, reduce the base dodge stat for the sets. (Might make Pallies go back to INT)
-Balance the damage they deal to be fair with the dodge they have, so when they dodge a full nuke, we are still partly alive to keep fighting.

Thank you to anyone who took the time to read this! Please post opinions and such below, I really want to hear the communities opinion on this topic!:smile:

~IStaff
12-28-2013, 01:58 AM
Doodlebeast

I'm pretty sure that's the final nerf were gonna get in PL haha
12-28-2013, 11:11 PM
Michael Liu

Let's just nerf everything so no one can do any damage and weapons are just for looks... Ok happy now?
12-28-2013, 11:20 PM
Stevenmc

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Liu

Let's just nerf everything so no one can do any damage and weapons are just for looks... Ok happy now?

Good one, you must be a comedian.
12-28-2013, 11:20 PM
Stevenmc

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doodlebeast

I'm pretty sure that's the final nerf were gonna get in PL haha

I sure hope not.
12-28-2013, 11:21 PM
Caiahar

The stupid moment when your DODGE debuffs get dodged -.-

WhoIsThis suggested in his thread, that debuffs should have 100% accuracy and not be able to be dodged, while the dmg in the debuff can be dodged, yet the debuff cannot. That would be great at endgame.
Another one by WhoIsThis is turn all buffs to percentages%, which would be effective, just a bit changes to be made.
12-28-2013, 11:27 PM
XghostzX

Hey Steven, first off I agree with everything you're saying. There was a time when JustG reached out to the community and attempted to fix PvP... unfortunately, he didn't quite stick through with it and finish up the job. Dodge IMO is the biggest thing that needs to be fixed next to OP damage with every class... but I just don't see STS doing anything about it at this point.
12-28-2013, 11:51 PM
Dudetus is my hero

Alright I'll be serious for once. If debuffs always hit bear fights would not end, because if hs always hit bears would have -hit%after 2hs' and in my opinion that is retarded that hit can be minus.
12-29-2013, 12:17 AM
XghostzX

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dudetus is my hero

Alright I'll be serious for once.

But in seriousness, Dudetus is king.
12-29-2013, 12:21 AM
Doodlebeast

Quote:

Originally Posted by XghostzX

But in seriousness, Dudetus is king.

Yesh. He is alterra's finest player x king x troll too.

Skyrocket dudetus's ego out of the sky pls.
12-29-2013, 12:22 AM
Stevenmc

Quote:

Originally Posted by XghostzX

Hey Steven, first off I agree with everything you're saying. There was a time when JustG reached out to the community and attempted to fix PvP... unfortunately, he didn't quite stick through with it and finish up the job. Dodge IMO is the biggest thing that needs to be fixed next to OP damage with every class... but I just don't see STS doing anything about it at this point.

I do think damage is OP too, but if it is more difficult to lower damage, an increase in health would act the same wouldn't it?
12-29-2013, 12:24 AM
Stevenmc

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dudetus is my hero

Alright I'll be serious for once. If debuffs always hit bear fights would not end, because if hs always hit bears would have -hit%after 2hs' and in my opinion that is retarded that hit can be minus.

True, can hit % actually become negative?

Edit: I feel like things should be scaled from a cap such as 56 or 66 (I don't know how the 61 cap went i wasn't around much.) The classes all seemed pretty equal, maybe a slight bird advantage at 56, or a slight mage advantage in 66. At 66 even if mage was slightly Op, there were pros around like Zeus, who could drop my mage with his bear anytime.
12-29-2013, 01:15 AM
Dudetus is my hero

Quote:

Originally Posted by XghostzX

But in seriousness, Dudetus is king.

I know right. He's the best. EVER.
12-29-2013, 03:54 AM
Extreme

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dudetus is my hero

I know right. He's the best. EVER.

Nun Dudetus Extreme's Uncle with shaved beard n sexy savage muscles*
12-29-2013, 12:25 PM
Timelife

aslong as the birds dodge don't get nerfed, that'd be terrible.
but for bears i think it would be a good idea, however, in my opinion pally mages do stand a good chance against bears in endgame, so i'm not really sure about this, that would kinda lead to pallys owning bears 24/7. also the 3 cap rings combined with dragon is kinda op against someone without it :(, for example, a good skilled archer loses to an archer that has less experience, but has the benefits of the 3 cap ring, it happens, or its just luck :) -- idk if this were off the topic but Steven i find this a good idea!
12-29-2013, 02:24 PM
Stevenmc

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timelife

aslong as the birds dodge don't get nerfed, that'd be terrible.
but for bears i think it would be a good idea, however, in my opinion pally mages do stand a good chance against bears in endgame, so i'm not really sure about this, that would kinda lead to pallys owning bears 24/7. also the 3 cap rings combined with dragon is kinda op against someone without it :(, for example, a good skilled archer loses to an archer that has less experience, but has the benefits of the 3 cap ring, it happens, or its just luck :) -- idk if this were off the topic but Steven i find this a good idea!

Yeah, archer is not as hard as a bear, but you do see archers dodge 8 attacks in a row sometimes. Maybe a slight nerf for the savage set, and the dodge buffs, so that Pally will not always win against a bear. Yeah, rings do make a difference for sure, I try to fight 3PC mages with my mage when im not using my 2PC, and its rough. When I do use my 2PC its pretty fair.
12-29-2013, 04:23 PM
Itoopeo

I have a pure bird with max buffs. And... i got 36 dodge when buffed.

So basically mages kill me with fire+auto damage = 400+120=520 and i die.

Birds just blast shot = 450+150=600 and i die

Bears(dex) are sometimes kiteable due to their close range skills. Still sometimes beckon+auto kills
300+250=550 and i die

With L40 hammer bird, bears usually kill me like this:
60+50+25+110+25+45+90+150=555 damage which kills me.
Pretty nice, i have even a little time to fight them off and run plus as a bird i do little better damage to them. Thats fair and doesnt feel op at all.
In endgame i dont have any change as bird. Im dead before i can do anything. Endgame needs more health OR a lot more armor so it would be littlebit similiar to L40 PvP.
12-29-2013, 05:00 PM
Reunegade

It's not dodge that completely ruins PvP (although it's a factor that does), but the 9 point skills. The increase from 7 point skills to 9 point skills is beyond overpowered, for all classes. Take a look at HS. It goes from 8 meter to 12 meters from 6 points to 9 points, also debuffing more and more hit from 8 point to 9 point than 6 point to 7 point. The 10% damage nerf just weakened purely damaging classes.
12-29-2013, 06:40 PM
Stevenmc

Quote:

Originally Posted by finnman

I have a pure bird with max buffs. And... i got 36 dodge when buffed.

So basically mages kill me with fire+auto damage = 400+120=520 and i die.

Birds just blast shot = 450+150=600 and i die

Bears(dex) are sometimes kiteable due to their close range skills. Still sometimes beckon+auto kills
300+250=550 and i die

With L40 hammer bird, bears usually kill me like this:
60+50+25+110+25+45+90+150=555 damage which kills me.
Pretty nice, i have even a little time to fight them off and run plus as a bird i do little better damage to them. Thats fair and doesnt feel op at all.
In endgame i dont have any change as bird. Im dead before i can do anything. Endgame needs more health OR a lot more armor so it would be littlebit similiar to L40 PvP.

I understand the need for bird dodge, but shouldn't a tank.. Tank hits? They shouldn't be ninjas dodging around everything.
12-30-2013, 05:17 AM
Itoopeo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stevenmc:1402879

Quote:

Originally Posted by finnman

I have a pure bird with max buffs. And... i got 36 dodge when buffed.

So basically mages kill me with fire+auto damage = 400+120=520 and i die.

Birds just blast shot = 450+150=600 and i die

Bears(dex) are sometimes kiteable due to their close range skills. Still sometimes beckon+auto kills
300+250=550 and i die

With L40 hammer bird, bears usually kill me like this:
60+50+25+110+25+45+90+150=555 damage which kills me.
Pretty nice, i have even a little time to fight them off and run plus as a bird i do little better damage to them. Thats fair and doesnt feel op at all.
In endgame i dont have any change as bird. Im dead before i can do anything. Endgame needs more health OR a lot more armor so it would be littlebit similiar to L40 PvP.

I understand the need for bird dodge, but shouldn't a tank.. Tank hits? They shouldn't be ninjas dodging around everything.

I have flying bow set. Which is actually best i can get. L73
I can do some serious damage to opponets but they kill me so fast so i cant even root them. When fighting other flying birds, its all about who can press blast shot first, wins.

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