Warrior NERFED? Hoping People Will Voice Thoughts...

Dear Tyger,

There is plenty of tanks that are coming up with new builds and being sucessful. I'll make a deal with you, if you try some of those builds in the tank class section. During your trails and respecs I will party with you and give you all the gold for all your pots until you have a build you're happy with.

I dont see how changing VB made ur survivability in pve worse. There always were warriors that died fast as rogue and those that can keep urself alive before this patch. So it will be after this patch also. Some wasnt able to tank some was. Now ur tankig is better.
If tank is dead then usualy other classes follow after but its not a rule. Theres also a lonly sorcerer or rogue as last man standing. Bc he wasnt afraid to use pots.

Just bc u need to use some pots more...and rogues whining? ABt what? I only see warriors before trying to adapt and use combination and denying using pots. I dont realy understand that. Whats so bad on using pots. Bc u got used to neverdrain mana?

If mobs attacking doesnt give anough mana it can be fixed so it will be more.

What does your mana have to do with your survivability? Ever heard of mana pots?

Trust me.... you gotta know. mana is super important for warriors... vengeful was amazing before idk now,.

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Originally Posted by Zuzeq

Dear Tyger,

There is plenty of tanks that are coming up with new builds and being sucessful. I'll make a deal with you, if you try some of those builds in the tank class section. During your trails and respecs I will party with you and give you all the gold for all your pots until you have a build you're happy with.

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I already followed your advice. The truth is my build: 5,4,0,0,0,0,5,4 with 5-Might and 2-Damage SHOULD technically still be effective according to the guides you asked me to look at, but I can barely get through a normal kraken lvl like Grog Beach without consuming about 40 total potions, which (maybe not for a rogue) is kind of ridiculous for a class that is supposed to trade off DPS, CRIT and killing speed for durability. I don't think its very fair to attack our durability so much when it is really the only perk we have going for us, the devs have essentially said 'ya you can still regen your mana but its just gonna cost you like 3/4 of your health to get it full again... oh and one more thing, your skills cost about 70% more mana to cast! Have Fun!' If they made it so you didnt lose health while getting hit for a short period and regained your mana then this shift might make sense, but as it stands it seems like an incredibly counterintuitive part of the update that tried to fix a trivial balancing issue (mana pot consumption) which has existed forever without people really caring and instead created a dozen other blancing issues that are going to make the game kinda just suck. Also my preferred weapon lvl 25 Captain's axe of potency still has ok DPS, but an incredibly nerfed dodge proc that used to help me stay alive and now gives me a pathetic dodge bonus for how frequently it actual decides to proc (It wasn't outrageously expensive but 150k is 150k...)

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Originally Posted by Lalarie

What does your mana have to do with your survivability? Ever heard of mana pots?

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Yes I have heard of mana potions. Ever heard of HEALTH potions? Warriors already use more of them than any other class (especially in elites) to tank hits for their groups in mobs and now they have to spam mana pots as well. Things have not been "BALANCED".

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Originally Posted by Tyger

It's no longer a matter of spamming potions in Elite as it is survivng in Elites long enough to actually help the team lol. I'm sorry your "hero" bailed on you that sucks, but you wouldnt have been able to hold his aggro for half as long so I wouldn't be talking. You are basically proving my point with what I think you believed was some sort of rebuttal lol.
-Tanks can no longer tank for teams with the changes that have been made and "tankability" is why people play warriors lol. Just because you didn't like playing pre patch warriors in 1v1 doesn't mean that they werent adequately equipped and useful in other aspects of the game and now things are going to suck because Rogues don't really seem to know when to stop whining.

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The lifethiefs proc is useless, charging it would only merit me 15-30 additional hp, and that won't happen all the time. What was nerfed was the damage output, you see us rogues are mana dependent - if we ever run out of mana which happens often on one full skill setup rotation, we would have to rely on using normal attacks. The case now is that since the damage putput has been lowered, we pretty much kill slower than before. Trust me, go on and try the lifethief and see if the proc is worth it.

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Originally Posted by Limsyoker

The lifethiefs proc is useless, charging it would only merit me 15-30 additional hp, and that won't happen all the time. What was nerfed was the damage output, you see us rogues are mana dependent - if we ever run out of mana which happens often on one full skill setup rotation, we would have to rely on using normal attacks. The case now is that since the damage putput has been lowered, we pretty much kill slower than before. Trust me, go on and try the lifethief and see if the proc is worth it.

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That's just a less than 2 percent (hp)

I like the "old" Warrior better! Please fix -STS Staff

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Originally Posted by Zuzeq

Dear Tyger,

There is plenty of tanks that are coming up with new builds and being sucessful. I'll make a deal with you, if you try some of those builds in the tank class section. During your trails and respecs I will party with you and give you all the gold for all your pots until you have a build you're happy with.

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Regardless of how us warriors are adapting to this (I can still play & survive, it just literally isn't FUN anymore and its supposed to be a game.) with new builds we are really the only class that is being FORCED and encouraged to completely restructure our builds to compensate for a single update Zuzeq! Look at the update sheet that mana cost increase is a bigger deal than it seems on paper, we were completely TARGETED and the dmg was overkill compared to what was doled out to the other classes in the update. I have had the same build since lvl 1 to lvl 25 and I really liked it, (To be honest I think the mage is far more fun to play but my Warrior was slow/steady and always pulled through on tough lvls) having to abandon my build just to get through lvls makes me incredibly angry when I think about the time I've put into it all.

This is not what I wanted to get into though, I really wanted everyone who has experienced "Vengenothing" to maybe post a few suggestions on how it can be fixed or altered to make the game fun and playable for warriors once again. I for one don't expect Veng to be returned to us, but I do think returning a less potent version of it (slower mana return/longer cooldown) would be simple and approppriate. I like the "get hit and get mana" concept though so perhaps they could make Veng a short-timed buff once again that simply takes 50% (any percentage devs think is fair would work) of the damage you receive and returns it as mana rather than a hit to health. That way vengeance would still be worth using and if they added even a tiny mana regen to the buff to compensate for Rogue/Sorc passiveness in pvp during the Veng buff, that might even redeem our PvP competitiveness that is now non-existent. Anyone else have suggestions or tips?

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Originally Posted by Tyger

I already followed your advice. The truth is my build: 5,4,0,0,0,0,5,4 with 5-Might and 2-Damage SHOULD technically still be effective according to the guides you asked me to look at, but I can barely get through a normal kraken lvl like Grog Beach without consuming about 40 total potions, which (maybe not for a rogue) is kind of ridiculous for a class that is supposed to trade off DPS, CRIT and killing speed for durability. I don't think its very fair to attack our durability so much when it is really the only perk we have going for us, the devs have essentially said 'ya you can still regen your mana but its just gonna cost you like 3/4 of your health to get it full again... oh and one more thing, your skills cost about 70% more mana to cast! Have Fun!' If they made it so you didnt lose health while getting hit for a short period and regained your mana then this shift might make sense, but as it stands it seems like an incredibly counterintuitive part of the update that tried to fix a trivial balancing issue (mana pot consumption) which has existed forever without people really caring and instead created a dozen other blancing issues that are going to make the game kinda just suck. Also my preferred weapon lvl 25 Captain's axe of potency still has ok DPS, but an incredibly nerfed dodge proc that used to help me stay alive and now gives me a pathetic dodge bonus for how frequently it actual decides to proc (It wasn't outrageously expensive but 150k is 150k...)

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Ok look tyger im a rouge i also have a war and i dont complane about pots or the fact that i lost a infinit amount of mana on my war i could care less i out survive wars before patch and i still do cuz i rather rely on my pots then some one tanking for me i also soloed pre kraken like wars could and if u want a class that should never be nerfed and i dont have the class try playing as a mage i even find them to weak that is more unfair also wars are still plenty strong in pvp and pve u just have to remeber potions are your friends also i use about 500-1000 pots in a day of farming so ya i use alot of pots

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Originally Posted by salvair

Ok look tyger im a rouge i also have a war and i dont complane about pots or the fact that i lost a infinit amount of mana on my war i could care less i out survive wars before patch and i still do cuz i rather rely on my pots then some one tanking for me i also soloed pre kraken like wars could and if u want a class that should never be nerfed and i dont have the class try playing as a mage i even find them to weak that is more unfair also wars are still plenty strong in pvp and pve u just have to remeber potions are your friends also i use about 500-1000 pots in a day of farming so ya i use alot of pots

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I don't think many would agree with the idea that warriors are still strong in PvP, from what I hear they are getting destroyed. I would not expect a rogue main to mind potion spamming but I am a warrior main and my build was built to avoid potion spamming and support my team in mobs and elites. After the update I cannot fight (skills) and cast the horn of renew nearly enough to keep my team alive. The game is no longer fun for warriors and people are quitting already haha

BTW its spelled Rogue.

first of all i completely agree with tyger.
and secondly,
all you rogues that complain that you use pots, got nerfed, we should also get used to it and blah blah,
all of you forgot to mention one advantage both rogues and mages have over warriors. RANGED ATTACKS. the only ranged attack warriors have is axe throw (which is literally useless) and with the high dos and damage rogues and mages have, I'd say warriors are now the weakest class. (and not to mention warriors are slow as hell) all we are now is, just a big bulky load of meat with alot of HP. and good luck all those mages and rogues surviving in elite maps and pvp without the warriors always blowing the horn to save your bums. lol level 26 warrior, and quit the game until this issue is fixed. i really dont get why they had to nerd VB. all everyone was asking for was to fix the glitch with windmill (i didnt use that glitch btw, the respec to use the glitch wasnt worth it) seriously confused with the update STS :upset:

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Originally Posted by wowdah

Trust me.... you gotta know. mana is super important for warriors... vengeful was amazing before idk now,.

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Rogue's could also benefit greatly from a skill that always kept them at full mana. While we're at it, lets add one that keeps our health full too.

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Originally Posted by Anindu Bandara

first of all i completely agree with tyger.
and secondly,
all you rogues that complain that you use pots, got nerfed, we should also get used to it and blah blah,
all of you forgot to mention one advantage both rogues and mages have over warriors. RANGED ATTACKS. the only ranged attack warriors have is axe throw (which is literally useless) and with the high dos and damage rogues and mages have, I'd say warriors are now the weakest class. (and not to mention warriors are slow as hell) all we are now is, just a big bulky load of meat with alot of HP. and good luck all those mages and rogues surviving in elite maps and pvp without the warriors always blowing the horn to save your bums. lol level 26 warrior, and quit the game until this issue is fixed. i really dont get why they had to nerd VB. all everyone was asking for was to fix the glitch with windmill (i didnt use that glitch btw, the respec to use the glitch wasnt worth it) seriously confused with the update STS :upset:

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Ranged attack is overrated. The only time it works great is when you are fighting a single mob or boss. When you are in the midst of mobs, its VERY easy for Rogues to get aggro. And when you do, it pot burning time.

Besides, regardless of the fact that we have ranged attacks, the fact remains, we use a TON of pots (mana AND health).

The big advantage that warriors have? You don't lose 1/3 of your HP with a single hit from an elite mob. And you don't burn your whole mana pool after 4 attacks.
BTW, I also play warrior. I burn through health pots already. Mana pots are cheaper, so the impact is not that great.

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Originally Posted by Aedenos

Ranged attack is overrated. The only time it works great is when you are fighting a single mob or boss. When you are in the midst of mobs, its VERY easy for Rogues to get aggro. And when you do, it pot burning time.

Besides, regardless of the fact that we have ranged attacks, the fact remains, we use a TON of pots (mana AND health).

The big advantage that warriors have? You don't lose 1/3 of your HP with a single hit from an elite mob. And you don't burn your whole mana pool after 4 attacks.
BTW, I also play warrior. I burn through health pots already. Mana pots are cheaper, so the impact is not that great.

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It's not potion consumption that is the major issue man, that's just an annoyong byproduct that most warriors like myself have already countered with int boosts. Plz read more into the issue you before you try and argue against an issue you obviously don't understand. It's more about PvP being ruined and the entire tanking "system" of using horn of renew and skyward/(mill or CS) to help your team stay alive is now impossible to do effectively with the update in place. It would be ridiculous for rogues to expect a mana regen like the warrior because their skills (aimed/strike) are so deadly to begin with and backed by a ridiculous critical chance that they would put a warrior down in seconds simply by spamming those abilities. The warrior's three usable offensive skills (smash,Splitter, Mill) are useful but nowhere near as powerul as the rogues skills and the warrior's max crit is pitiful compared to the rogue's so it actually made a ton of sense back when the mana costs were low for Warriors and we had regen (windmill crit bug had to be fixed and it was). Would slowing down/reducing the regen for veng have been acceptable? I would have compromised there, but instead one of our top skills has simply been butchered seemingly without any forethought regarding how other classes could abuse veng in PvP by simply not attacking. LOL

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Originally Posted by Tyger

It's not potion consumption that is the major issue man, that's just an annoyong byproduct that most warriors like myself have already countered with int boosts. Plz read more into the issue you before you try and argue against an issue you obviously don't understand. It's more about PvP being ruined and the entire tanking "system" of using horn of renew and skyward/(mill or CS) to help your team stay alive is now impossible to do effectively with the update in place. It would be ridiculous for rogues to expect a mana regen like the warrior because their skills (aimed/strike) are so deadly to begin with and backed by a ridiculous critical chance that they would put a warrior down in seconds simply by spamming those abilities. The warrior's three usable offensive skills (smash,Splitter, Mill) are useful but nowhere near as powerul as the rogues skills and the warrior's max crit is pitiful compared to the rogue's so it actually made a ton of sense back when the mana costs were low for Warriors and we had regen (windmill crit bug had to be fixed and it was). Would slowing down/reducing the regen for veng have been acceptable? I would have compromised there, but instead one of our top skills has simply been butchered seemingly without any forethought regarding how other classes could abuse veng in PvP by simply not attacking. LOL

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Well PVP is a different story. You're right, I wasnt paying attention to that much.

I think its high time there were different metrics for PVP and PVE. What is good for PVE is VERY difficult to make good for PVP. For example, great damage/low health, great health/low damage. This is how it should be for PVE, but in PVP land, its worthless. There need to be different metrics and different skill loadouts for PVP vs PVE.

Otherwise, make PVP class specific (boring and probably unrealistic).

But I do agree with you about the captain's axe. That's pretty misleading.

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Originally Posted by Tyger

but instead one of our top skills has simply been butchered seemingly without any forethought regarding how other classes could abuse veng in PvP by simply not attacking. LOL

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If they don't attack anyone on your team for 10-14 seconds, I think the battle is won. Not sure I see that as abuse.

Hi Swede,

The secondary stats 'int' for a Rogue is amazing. See the following thread.

http://www.spacetimestudios.com/show...racter-in-game

We warriors got ripped off on our secondary stats 'dex'

A full 155 points in stats for a warrior would net us about 10% dodge, low damage and about 750 health compared to a full strength build that yields 1% dodge, high damage, and about 3k+ health.

Any chance the secondary dex stat on a warrior can be look into?