If they dont have time to design or come up with nu design ideas for pl...y dont they make design contests n use those ideas? Seems like a pretty simple idea
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If they dont have time to design or come up with nu design ideas for pl...y dont they make design contests n use those ideas? Seems like a pretty simple idea
@Level One
I don't see how the amount of press coverage that PL has gotten has anything to do with this thread relative to Order and Chaos. The purpose of the thread is to discuss what changes should be made for Christmas.
That said, you do have a point that PL is currently in "cash cow" phase. A major re-balance is needed and if the game is to attract the old player base and new ones, it will need new content. If you have ideas though I recommend that you make a thread on them.
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Press coverage? I didn't mean press coverage when saying the word "news". I meant the news about content and such, sorry for not being clearer on this.Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoIsThis
We went quite off-topic, sorry for that.
I did have an idea about a new cap (story, item design etc.), I even had some illustrations done, but I figured that it was a waste of time, since devs don't even bother checking the idea/suggestions forum.
If stg don't reply to this or show signs they have well... What will they listen to? Pl deserves a bit of loving and great work btw
Let's HOPE this Christmas event will be than ever!
WHY CANT WE ALL JUST STOP ARGUING?!?
This thread was meant for suggestions for the upcoming Winter Fest, so we don't have to see what happened at Halloween again, not an argument about PL "reputation" or "cash cow" or "milking before death" MEH.
Seriously, just stay on topic..
Really hope that this upcoming Winter Fest won't turn into 2nd Halloween for this year, the community are scare enough after the recent Halloween.
What specifically are you referring to?Quote:
Originally Posted by bglir
Unfortunately, the fact that PL has not received much in the way of new content is at the heart of the topic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadowstar
It's the reason why this conversation was started in the first place.
Great Ideas Micah!
Micah, I think at this point, we should change our strategy and ask for more modest threads. I for example have created a quick and simple thread for my suggestions.
Ok so by modest do you mean less critical? Or shorter? Or perhaps both?Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoIsThis
That would only make people happy for a few months then the same problem would happen again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xyzther
Wasnt the 2010 Xmas a 20 plat unlimited access thing? Not too sure on that, but I think it's way better than pay 2 plat per run.
I'm hoping this Xmas event will be good as well, since the snowman level and toyman level have already been reused in the past.
The first conclusion is that the plat packs should have been released! I realize many people get upset by the luck based ideas in the plat packs. However, these people need to realize that what they do with their plat/money is their business. Lots of people love the packs. Just because a select few don't, doesn't mean STG should remove them altogether. The biggest reason they should have released them is because people like to have something to take with them from a special event. In fact, that's the only reason I (and money others) participated in Halloween at all. We were hoping for some cool, unique vanity. We ended up with a different colored demon helm and the same candy bags from the previous years. That brings me to my next conclusion.
Thread owners post^
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Pl didn't get packs not because people didn't want to pay plat for them but because STG is busy with al. ( do I think this is right to just put pl on the back burner due to al?) no it's bs don't get me wrong and I wish they did make them but making the plat packs I can see would poked the bear which is the cap nuts who only play pl to cap. Which leads me to say its not just sts anymore it's the community that should start getting the blame.
Why is pl not getting caps? Because no matter how many times sts caps pl people are crying about it 4 months later for a new one. not to even mention all the prepping it takes to make a new caps including new areas new boss's/new enemy's and new content. Why is pl on the back burner with plat packs or new content? Because al & STG's new games need attention so pl being that its capped to 76 can now sit and wait for them to get al and there other games to points that they want to sit them at.
(Do I hate this to?) oh hell yes I do but it's just facts people' you can't work on five games at once. It's not only insane it's to demanding on the artist and creators who make content on pl/al/DL & SL. On top of this all why would they update anything els to begin with? They just did a pvp nerf and people are still not happy with pvp or items for pvp even after the fixes they did people now want it to go back to the way it was. How rude is that? No wonder stg dropped pl on it's butt to wait when they get that after hard work.
I'm done though because no matter how many times I say this kind of stuff people will just whine for a new cap or why they didn't get anything in a new thread.
Goodnight pl forums
Kingzilia: I definitely feel your frustration, but I believe your post is misguided and a little off topic. Last year (before AL even released) the devs delayed releasing the packs because they didn't like the complaints they had recieves the year before about the luck involved. However, because enough people requested them, they decided to release them after all. This year, significantly less people voiced their opinions (which is probably a good thing) and the devs didn't even bring it up. Could this be due in part to AL? I wouldn't rule it out.
Also, there is a difference between complaints, and constructive criticism. I believe even the devs themselves have stated that they like constructive criticism, but not complaints. When stuff gets changed for the worse, of course people will begin complaining. Even when stuff gets changed for the better, people will complain. However, complainers never get their way unless there are massive numbers of them and money is on the line. Generally, it is the constructive criticizers who are listened to. (If anyone is)
You both have good points.Quote:
Originally Posted by MightyMicah
It is the communities fault for plat packs, and many other things sts redid. Remember the Volcanut? That was my favorite freakin helm, I tryed my hardest to get it in the short amount of time given. I never got it.
The community has some influence over the devs decisions. The community can also help devs out? People whine for a level cap, but they never offer any suggestions/information on what that cap should be. There are a few suggestions, but they are not reasonable. Atlantis? Heck, sts doesnt have to fo dat.
Constructive Critism is important. Devs need it. Whining/complaining, never ends well.
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Constructive criticism? Definitely.Quote:
Originally Posted by Argyros
Doing the developers job? Definitely - if I get paid.
Typing lines of Programming text? Pay me sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by LEVEL ONE
Typing thoughtful and suggestive feedback, and inspirational docs? That should be a freebie.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MightyMicah
How was I off topic (or wrong) if you JUST STATED in your last paragraph that I was right lol? And yes there is a diffrence between whiners and people stating a point. On top of this I just played BC & BD and both are pay to play so this plat and sitting is not to surprising anymore to me if stg is doing that now.
What I think should happen is a new thread of (art - to be content) should be made so players and users can submit and or suggest content for the game like we use to when we had art contests for a new item or weapon art.
While I don't think there's anything wrong with offering suggestions, your statement implies that the main barrier to PL getting new content is the lack of constructive suggestions provided by the community. Firstly, I think the community has provided quite a lot of meaningful feedback and suggestions and has demonstrated a clear interest in seeing PL continue to be developed. But more importantly, it's clearly not the lack of ideas but the lack of resources that has held PL back this last year. Multiple PL reps have just flat said it straight out that they have decided not to allocate manpower to work on PL. I don't see how encouraging players to post suggestions will have any effect on the basic truth that there's simply nobody assigned to work on new PL content.Quote:
Originally Posted by Argyros
About whining/complaining, it's true in some sense that it's not productive. However, if everyone just silently accepted the current state even when dissatisfied, then the PL staff would get no indication that there's even any more interest from the community. Eventually they'd notice the play hours diminish as people simply gave up and left, but that's a lagging indicator from which it's hard to recover if some focus returns to the game. Once too many people leave, it's extremely hard to rebuild a player base. People coming right out and saying they're disappointed at least gives STS a chance to revise their strategy if they so choose. That doesn't mean that people should just wantonly slag the staff, but pointed discussions are appropriate and warranted from a company's customer base.
I think one of the undercurrents driving the complaints is the rapidity with which PL went down. There is a general expectation that MMOs last for a pretty long time just because most of them historically have. That is, those that have had success with a decent player base are usually around for 5+ years at a minimum. PL ran off the cliff development-wise at the end of 2012 (the last major content update) which is just under 3 years. The fact that the dev staff was just suddenly gone without warning from such a still-young MMO really caught the community by surprise, magnifying the discontent due to the implicit assumption that, well, PL was too young to die. To contemplate that it could be over so quickly really shocked the community.
This is well put. Its surprising and shocking that the devs have pretty much abandoned the game in such an abrupt fashion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fusionstrike
Hmm not really if you think about it. They transitioned from payed campaigns to a straight up free mmo. Then they began looking to make money elsewhere which ultimately became elixirs and expensive vanity. Elixirs began to diminish the player base because there was no incentive to get good; no challenge left, aside from pvp. Once they added end game cap rewards (CoP was the first) people began to feel cheated and couldn't compete at end game even in pvp. All of this madness caused tons and tons of oldies to quit the game as well as discouraging new players to replace them by staying. One thing lead to another and it seemed like PL just got one bad update after another. You can't abuse a game like PL got abused and expect it to shine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chopper
So the devs need money and what do they do? They start putting forth effort on a brand new start. Maybe this time they'll start out better and finish better since they've learned from their last mistakes. Right? Wrong. Star Legends didn't catch on, nor did Dark Legends. With the release of AL, however, STS got their chance to finally do things right. And they did. But that leaves PL in the dust. There is no incentive to fix it because it's not making them a lot of money and because it's so messed up. Even if they knew how to fix it perfectly, it would require a massive change that would cause so many people to be upset, it wouldn't even be worth the time, effort, and money that it would take to fix it.
First off, I was never trying to imply that there is a lack of constructive suggestions. Simply that if your here to complain for a level cap, stop doing nothing. I know many people have, and many who haven't. Now this is what I believe- You cannot build a house by simply telling the materials to arise and form together. You must build the house yourself. In this case, building the house is doing whatever possible to improve the player base, the condition of the community, and the balance of the game. THESE are the areas where we should be giving constructive suggestions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fusionstrike
You may be right about the "current number of devs" situations. Im not in Texas at their office so I couldnt tell you.
Your getting there. Constructive critism is the opposite of complaining. We must be orderly, and think it through before ever considering a change in game. Wasting a developers time is never good.
You may also be correct about the player base. The only facts I can give is that there are 81k forumer accs, and 1mil+ Pl downloads in Android alone. In game is still very active... There are still good people out there.
I hope you understand me.
Probably both at this point. I hated to admit it myself, but the shorter it is, the more probable that it will get done.Quote:
Originally Posted by MightyMicah
At the risk of sounding a bit elitist, I think that among anybody in the PL forum here, I feel that I have earned (and I particularly stress the word earned) the most right to say that I agree with this statement. We are not suffering from a lack of good ideas. We are suffering from a lack of developer resources allocated to this game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fusionstrike
Back in 2011, that's exactly what I tried to prevent:Quote:
Originally Posted by Fusionstrike
http://www.spacetimestudios.com/show...-for-this-year
At the risk of looking at the past with rose-tinted glasses, the community of 2011, for all it's flaws was a lot better than it is today. That and I would argue PL was a better game. Balance wise, the game would be a better place today if they had never released a level over 66 nor the Angel sets.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoIsThis
I look back and I consider my quote here to be very prescient. My suggestions were not followed. Here we are today.
You know it's funny. People have always talked about making a "WoW-killer". I don't believe that STS ever tried said that their game would be a WoW-killer, but a lot of developers fail to understand what WoW did right. They cultivated a good long term community. That's something that many developers don't understand. They also don't understand how quality of content, perceived fairness of revenue generation, fundamental game decisions, and making a balanced game a fundamentally critical for the long term viability of the game. Equally as important, they did not aggressively monetize the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fusionstrike
As a former WoW player myself, when WoW players say they quit, they don't say they "quit". They say they retire, the way you retire a career. That's because many of the players of WoW have put as much as 10 years of time and emotional investment into the game. That's longer than most people hold jobs these days. Hence, they retire. That's the result of all of the investment that they've put in the game. That's the result of WoW's accomplishments, whatever it's other flaws. They made content worth playing for 10 years.
WoW is only dying now because well, Blizzard has become increasingly customer-hostile, and because it looks like the PC market itself is in decline.
Yes, but constructive suggestions mean nothing if they are not acted upon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Argyros
There's no "may be" about it. I for one am certain he's right. A development studio does not sit around and do nothing. This is an issue of allocation of resources.Quote:
Originally Posted by Argyros
It's not about how many downloads there were in the past. It's about many players are playing the game right now. And more critically, how much money this game is making. Even more critically, it's about the growth potential in the future. There may be good people, but what Fusion is saying is, there would be even more "good people" if there was a relatively consistent amount of new content every few months or so. And many of the good people of the past would still be here, with more content available.Quote:
Originally Posted by Argyros
Exactly. I know that half the time I dont fully get my point across... But this really does sum it up.Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoIsThis
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You made a lot of good points. I pulled out the one that I think is the most important and at the heart of everything. It's important to recognize that building an MMO is, above all else, creating a community. That is, fostering an environment where players feel invested in what they do and find a satisfaction in building something. Not everyone builds the same thing, but all build something: achievements, friendships, teams to revel in shared successes, collections of hard-won items, unusual strategies and tactics, etc. And all of this takes place with an audience of other players. Nobody would bother if it were just a single player game because there'd be no one to share it with. (Or rather, those who play such games, e.g Final Fantasy, do so for different reasons.)Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoIsThis
In the end, it doesn't really matter as much that the graphics are the latest or the game is "new". What keeps players engaged is a healthy community, which is fed by regular attention and support by the dev team. As long as that is there, the game is alive and therefore the community is too. When that stops, the community inevitably fades away because the motivation for players to "build something" is gone.
I don't think STS gets this at all with their strategy of releasing a slew of games that are just a variation on the same theme. They pursue this strategy as if they're making Madden games, where the players demand a new release every year, rather than an MMO, where the most valuable attribute is continuity. It baffles me that they seem not to understand the most fundamental underpinning of their own business. They got there first in mobile MMO, and did a fantastic job making a game that created a large fanbase. Unfortunately for all of us, they didn't understand that rolling out game after game is not the right long-term strategy. MMO players generally don't want to keep moving on to new games, starting over each time like a hamster on a wheel. The amount of competition in the mobile MMO space will only continue to grow, relegating STS to just another also-ran to other companies that better provide what the players really want. They had the lead and the chance to become the power in mobile MMOs, but they blew it. I really enjoyed what they did with PL. It makes me sad that it will not survive, as STS is clearly not going to change its strategy at this point.
Well said fus
This is what I was planning on addressing in my next long thread. I'll save my reply for there.
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