More Shadow Cave Changes Coming

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Originally Posted by Ptoast

Having the ability to set a minimum character level would stop lower levels from joining. That way people could still join a shadow cave game in progress. I also agree about the hosting issue. If the host leaves, someone else needs to become host. Maybe a system were a host can designate the next host or the game can make the 2nd person to have joined host privileges. I would also like to see the mobs have trash loot, so that a person cam go into the caves and not blow all of their money on pots and elixers.

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It still doesn't solve the problem of people staring at the "join game" screen until a spot opens up in one of the games. Doesnt matter what level they are, I would consider this leeching -- leeching off someone else's work to get into the cave. If the devs really want people to work to get in there, they should do away with the caves showing up on the "join game" screen. Any open slots should be filled in by invited friends.

Edit: at the very least, this might take a bit more planning, making sure you have a few friends available before starting the game.
Also, something would of course have to be done to prevent people from getting locked out of the game if the get disconnected. Fixing the host problem would be one way to deal with that -- so they know their friends can hold the spot for them if they get lagged out.

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Originally Posted by Arterra

lv 1 and 4 people are no the only problem. i had a lv47 and 48 destroying the team for us, refusing to leave. the 47 didnt even participate in fighting half the time.

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Yes caves are hard for a level lower than 50 because of gear and not skills. Lets hope devs change how the hosting works.

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Originally Posted by Ptoast

Having the ability to set a minimum character level would stop lower levels from joining. That way people could still join a shadow cave game in progress. I also agree about the hosting issue. If the host leaves, someone else needs to become host. Maybe a system were a host can designate the next host or the game can make the 2nd person to have joined host privileges. I would also like to see the mobs have trash loot, so that a person can go into the caves and not blow all of their money on pots and elixers.

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This is an excellent idea. Setting the minimum level when creating a game. Of course the information would have to pass onto the Shadow Caves too.

I would also suggest that when Victory Lap is cleared, instead of just getting the message to go to town, add the "Go to Shadow Caves" to be shown instead of having to check for a portal.

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Originally Posted by Lesrider

It still doesn't solve the problem of people staring at the "join game" screen until a spot opens up in one of the games. Doesnt matter what level they are, I would consider this leeching -- leeching off someone else's work to get into the cave. If the devs really want people to work to get in there, they should do away with the caves showing up on the "join game" screen. Any open slots should be filled in by invited friends.

Edit: at the very least, this might take a bit more planning, making sure you have a few friends available before starting the game.
Also, something would of course have to be done to prevent people from getting locked out of the game if the get disconnected. Fixing the host problem would be one way to deal with that -- so they know their friends can hold the spot for them if they get lagged out.

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If this was a desktop mmo I'd agree with you. But it is a mobile game and average time spent in game is probably less than an hour for most people, not the hardcore with nothing else to do.

IMO- If we have to clear VL the portal should always pop at the end, not randomly.

Drop rates could be increased slightly.... to the same as AO3 bosses. Now, you have to put together a good group that is going to stick it out for hours..not easy to do in PL. If we have to dedicate hours to clearing someone in the group should get a pink. Otherwise its just frustrating. I do like the idea of if you clear all 5 levels..at the end the group is rewarded with pinks.

Totally agree with the frustrations of a lower level joining and refusing to leave. Our group ended up leaving the caves because of this. Hopefully 1.7 has something to address hosting issues, level caps, etc.

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Originally Posted by Lesrider

It still doesn't solve the problem of people staring at the "join game" screen until a spot opens up in one of the games. Doesnt matter what level they are, I would consider this leeching -- leeching off someone else's work to get into the cave. If the devs really want people to work to get in there, they should do away with the caves showing up on the "join game" screen. Any open slots should be filled in by invited friends.

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I can understand this. It is an elite dungeon, after all. My opinion is slightly biased towards the casual gamer who may not have the time to clear VL and then do the caves. Myself, for example, I don't have alot of time during the week to play but on the weekends, the door is wide open. So my only experience of the caves has been when I was able to join a game in progress. Don't get me wrong, though, I did try to get a portal from Tpaxx a few times.

Great effort to fix things up. I like the fact that at least devs still admit their mistakes.

As for the people worrying about low levels joining shadow cave when someone leaves, I think this may be a good time to implement the level 50 limit on dungeons, even just for shadow caves for now.

I'm PHYSCED. :D

This means more farming, less people leaving after a single boss, and a better chance to make money per trip.

If you have to kill Des, King, OL, Gurg, Keeper, Tpax, you have a good shot of getting a drop in Victory Lap, then the drops in Shadow Caves.

Sounds great.

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Originally Posted by relayer

IMO- If we have to clear VL the portal should always pop at the end, not randomly.

Drop rates could be increased slightly.... to the same as AO3 bosses. Now, you have to put together a good group that is going to stick it out for hours..not easy to do in PL. If we have to dedicate hours to clearing someone in the group should get a pink. Otherwise its just frustrating. I do like the idea of if you clear all 5 levels..at the end the group is rewarded with pinks.

Totally agree with the frustrations of a lower level joining and refusing to leave. Our group ended up leaving the caves because of this. Hopefully 1.7 has something to address hosting issues, level caps, etc.

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Yeah, I agree with the hosting/etc problems, they should really force the leadership on SOMEONE.

I'm tired of level 30s-40s joining, and killing the run.

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Originally Posted by Ptoast

I can understand this. It is an elite dungeon, after all. My opinion is slightly biased towards the casual gamer who may not have the time to clear VL and then do the caves. Myself, for example, I don't have alot of time during the week to play but on the weekends, the door is wide open. So my only experience of the caves has been when I was able to join a game in progress. Don't get me wrong, though, I did try to get a portal from Tpaxx a few times.

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It's not like this game doesn't offer other areas for casual gamers. It's called "elite" -- I'm not even sure I'll go through this thing all that much.
But if the devs are adding roadblocks to get into the dungeon, why keep open the option of joining open games? That means only some people have to spend THEIR time getting tothe caves, while others just pop in whenever they please?

Consistency is the key.

I think adding the boot option will help with your issue Les. I also think you need to be more realistic, this is a casual game (even though u play hardcore). I for one, would like to be able to join a group of friends or even those I don't know for a quick cave level. Especially when I only have a little bit of time. Devs, please leave it open to joining and just make sure somebody has the option to boot. I also like the idea of setting a minimum level for games, would be great.

I wasn't saying you can't join friends. But I think you should ONLY be able to join friends. Not any open games. Remember, there's no way to create a locked shadows game, so the people spending their time to get in there (it is a large cave) shouldn't have to deal with random, unwanted pop-ins. That's all I'm saying. If your friends want you in their game, then by all means -- join them.

But if everyone likes getting strangers popping into their game who do or don't pull their own weight, don't complain about it when you have a leecher (and lvl 50s can be leeches too).

1. Will Boss 4 & 5 eventually become as hard, or harder, than Boss 3? Or are those where you're putting all the extra D'Jinns? :D

2. The night before the nerf, I remember joining a run that had a L47 and a person who was afk a bunch. Needless to say the group gave up at some point. A bunch of others came in and out until finally it looked like a group that was serious. To my surprise, I noticed that I had Boot priveleges at some point. So perhaps there is already some kind of host inheritance going on?

Are you adding different loot tables to the Djins, or will they still be Lore Keepers?

I'd add to the chorus of applause for the developers listening and correcting issues. Good Job!

I very much agree that an elite dungeon like this should have a lvl 50 criteria to join. I'd prefer this to the booting of players.

I wonder how many people are going to spend the time clearing VL then shadows if the drop rate of pinks is less than VL. Granted there are more bosses, but unless there is a reasonable chance to get an elite item, that's a lot of time invested.

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Originally Posted by FluffNStuff

Are you adding different loot tables to the Djins, or will they still be Lore Keepers?

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that is a problem indeed...

Problem is when your low level inherits the boot ... I think there is already a boot inherit mechanism. Maybe it should go to the highest level person in group. I don't know but there were times in AO2 when it was the low level that inherited the boot...

I too want to see joining left open, but allow booting and min level (should be 50 in caves until level cap is raised, but if possible to implement, might let 1st host determine min. level of game). I've seen too many games where we need more new people because someone has to leave, battery dies, etc. Real life intrudes. That's the way it is. There's no reason someone cannot play with their buddies just because they do not have hours to spend in PL. There were several times I joined a mostly empty-of-players game and it ended up being a game of my friends. That would not have been possible if I had not been able to start playing in the first place. I've also helped clear out dungeons and had to leave before reaching the boss (dinner, lunch, phone, blah blah). It's good to know the group just has to keep going and someone will likely join.

Just a thought.

Also I have no clue whether Cinco deliberately lie, but I think sometimes the gaming community just surprises them with how fast they get an area and what happens to the rest of the game. Sometimes things just don't happen as planned, I think. But again, that is life. You adjust; things change.

Les, if the original VL game is locked, then the caves will also be locked so that only friends can join. So if you want only friends to join, just lock the VL game.

It would be great if the host could lock and unlock the game mid-game. That way if you start with a group of friends you could lock so you don't have to boot unlucky randoms who stumble into your game, but if later your friends leave you can open it up.

My observation on host inheritance is that if the host of a game leaves a game before the map is cleared, then for the next game the new host will be the person who first clicks Next Level. But if the host of the lower game is in the game when the Next Level screen appears, then he will be host for the next level even if he never joins it. Not 100% sure but that's what I observed.

I agree with Les. I though it should've been that way from day one. Especially now since you have to work to get into the caves, you shouldn't be allowed to join an open game. Only friends from invites. I've ran into a lot of people with full sets, and bragging about more and then saying they never even seen the portal. I understand that there's the casual players that don't really have a lot of time, but there's a lot more leechers IMO. How would you feel if your group cleared VL, a couple of Shadow maps then someone had to go, and a random popped in and happened to get a pink?

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Originally Posted by Kalielle

My observation on host inheritance is that if the host of a game leaves a game before the map is cleared, then for the next game the new host will be the person who first clicks Next Level. But if the host of the lower game is in the game when the Next Level screen appears, then he will be host for the next level even if he never joins it. Not 100% sure but that's what I observed.

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Hmm... I think that may be pretty close. IIRC, on the run I was talking about, I came in on Cave 4. I'm *always* quick about clicking Next Level ;)

Also, on the Join screen, I think the game name will probably just have the same (host) name even if the host doesn't join that Next game.

Haha this is sweet, trashy gear is now even harder to get than good gear =D Idk bout you guys, but im sticking to ao3.

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Originally Posted by TwinkTastical

Haha this is sweet, trashy gear is now even harder to get than good gear =D Idk bout you guys, but im sticking to ao3.

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Yeah, but the new stuff is sellin' like hot cakes.

Well, it seems like it is meant for other people than me. I hope there will be new content for people who can't commit to a 4+ hour game. I am more than willing to pay 20 plat per campaign for good new content for the casual player or the moderately-moneyed player. I get about an hour on the bus going to work and an hour on the bus going home.

Maybe someday I will get to see what this update is like. I'm sure it must be cool.

Can you replace the items that were given in the 100% drops with AO2 whites? It doesn't seem fair that the looters are now gazillionaires. LOL! (Please, it's a joke!)

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Originally Posted by Snakespeare

Well, it seems like it is meant for other people than me. I hope there will be new content for people who can't commit to a 4+ hour game. I am more than willing to pay 20 plat per campaign for good new content for the casual player or the moderately-moneyed player. I get about an hour on the bus going to work and an hour on the bus going home.

Maybe someday I will get to see what this update is like. I'm sure it must be cool.

Can you replace the items that were given in the 100% drops with AO2 whites? It doesn't seem fair that the looters are now gazillionaires. LOL! (Please, it's a joke!)

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If you have AO campaign this is a free area. Even if you are casual you can have one day of the week to play it.

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Originally Posted by Ladylove

Yeah, but the new stuff is sellin' like hot cakes.

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So are rift sets =D =D =D =D =D =D =D

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Originally Posted by Lesrider

Edit: I don't think shadow cave games should show up in the "join" list -- they should all be considered locked games and people have to invite friends if they need an extra person. That would also help the random pop-ins of unwanted guests, even if there is no host. I just think if a team is going through all this effort, they have a right to keep it a closed game.

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Love this idea. Nothing worse than a camper level 31 farmer ruining your game.

makes you wonder if they did it on purpose? Make the gear easy to get to get some of it in circulation, then reduce drop rate and make mobs harder. Not that its a bad idea.. but you'd think with drop rates as they are in AO3 that they'd know about how much to make them drop to be fair. Hrmmm. Sneaky

Is their any Lvl 50 content coming for people who have the best armors?? Like some achievement system or some sort of gradual, ongoing character advancement for character distinction?

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Originally Posted by Kalielle

Les, if the original VL game is locked, then the caves will also be locked so that only friends can join. So if you want only friends to join, just lock the VL game.

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Are you sure about this?

I still stand by my original suggestion -- if they're going to purposely make it hard to get in there, the shadow caves games should not show up on the "join game" screen. Why give someone the opportunity to pop into different games just to kill the boss, then leave and pop into another one?

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Originally Posted by Snakespeare

Maybe someday I will get to see what this update is like. I'm sure it must be cool.

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That's a little how I feel right now, having just cleared VL 3 times with my friends and getting 1 shadow and 2 barrels. Clearing VL the first time was actually kind of fun. The second time, whatever. By the third run, it was just tedious, since I have already been practically living in that map ever since AO3 came out. Meanwhile, a friend had to go to work, 2 left for dinner and I have to take a break for lunch. I will definitely come back to it later, but even for someone who practically spends all day in PL like me, the time commitment does seem a bit much.

Any chance we could get a certain portal spawn at the end of VL, now that we have to clear the map? And before people say I just want things easy etc etc - it's not that. Make the new content as difficult as you like, you won't hear me complaining - but please, just let us get to it! Why force us to play over and over again a map we are bored of, just to get to the map we really want to play?

Incidentally, this would also somewhat solve the problem of people constantly searching for games in the join screen or having to stay in a game with no host, since it's not such a big deal to clear VL once to get the portal.

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Originally Posted by Kalielle

Any chance we could get a certain portal spawn at the end of VL, now that we have to clear the map? And before people say I just want things easy etc etc - it's not that. Make the new content as difficult as you like, you won't hear me complaining - but please, just let us get to it! Why force us to play over and over again a map we are bored of, just to get to the map we really want to play?

Incidentally, this would also somewhat solve the problem of people constantly searching for games in the join screen or having to stay in a game with no host, since it's not such a big deal to clear VL once to get the portal.

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I agree, this would be great. I actually like the idea to clear VL and then get the 'go to shadow caves' option instead of the portal. What would remove the exploit, but still make it reasonable to get to the caves.

I'd still like to know if you have to clear all the mobs or just the bosses in VL. Anyone know? We did one run and cleared everything, but no portal, so not very conclusive. If anyone clears bosses only and finds the portal, let us know!

We tried clearing only bosses, but nothing showed up. Then we went back and cleared all mobs (but one was left in the desert lol) and a shadow prisoner showed up in the main entrance. So I'm assuming you have to clear almost the whole board, but still no guarantee of the portal. But if you see the shadow prisoner, you know not to bother looking anymore for the portal.

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Originally Posted by Lesrider

We tried clearing only bosses, but nothing showed up. Then we went back and cleared all mobs (but one was left in the desert lol) and a shadow prisoner showed up in the main entrance. So I'm assuming you have to clear almost the whole board, but still no guarantee of the portal. But if you see the shadow prisoner, you know not to bother looking anymore for the portal.

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Thanks for the info and it cleared doubts about it. This also means no more rushing on VL which is sad. Still this also means farming more rift, void and Cosmos.

Well you could still rush, it just won't get you to the caves.
I wonder if this will start a whole other problem with people looking for rushed VL maps to clear the last few mobs and hope for a portal?

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Originally Posted by Lesrider

Well you could still rush, it just won't get you to the caves.
I wonder if this will start a whole other problem with people looking for rushed VL maps to clear the last few mobs and hope for a portal?

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yeah well whats the point of rushing if you want the portal? This is going to stop rushing VL. Its the only way to farm both areas.

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Originally Posted by Shemron

yeah well whats the point of rushing if you want the portal? This is going to stop rushing VL. Its the only way to farm both areas.

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Well unless they inplement some way to save your progress in the caves (like in drew's thread), I think a lot of people will still be skipping the caves and just doing VL. I know I personally don't like having to stay in-game for hours with no way to leave without losing your place in the 6-level map.

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Originally Posted by Lesrider

Well you could still rush, it just won't get you to the caves.
I wonder if this will start a whole other problem with people looking for rushed VL maps to clear the last few mobs and hope for a portal?

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Not sure how this is a problem. I join post Shadow Boxing Games for an faster shot at TPaxx. Only issue is your party does not have 'boot control'.

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Originally Posted by FluffNStuff

Not sure how this is a problem. I join post Shadow Boxing Games for an faster shot at TPaxx. Only issue is your party does not have 'boot control'.

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I dunno, that never bothered me. But it just doesn't seem the same when what you're going after is an entrance to an entire map, and not just a single boss.

Edit: I guess it's because anyone can create a Captive Audience game, but you can't just create a Caves game.

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Originally Posted by Lesrider

I dunno, that never bothered me. But it just doesn't seem the same when what you're going after is an entrance to an entire map, and not just a single boss.

Edit: I guess it's because anyone can create a Captive Audience game, but you can't just create a Caves game.

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Most likely only gonna mean you can skip the Keeper and ~maybe~ Gurgox, since those are the only bosses the 'shadow questers' do. Find it unlikely a group that is farming all bosses is gonna just leave and not see if the portal opens.

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Originally Posted by FluffNStuff

Most likely only gonna mean you can skip the Keeper and ~maybe~ Gurgox, since those are the only bosses the 'shadow questers' do. Find it unlikely a group that is farming all bosses is gonna just leave and not see if the portal opens.

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I guess it depends where they go from here. If they listen to people and make the portal always appear, then there'll be no reason to check. People will only clear all mobs if they actually want to get into the caves at that moment.

Eh I guess it doesn't make much of a difference. I was just thinking out loud lol.

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Originally Posted by Lesrider

Are you sure about this?

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Yes, I'm pretty sure a locked VL game leads to locked caves. At least that's what happened to our group the past 2 days when we farmed caves non-stop.

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Originally Posted by Lesrider

I know I personally don't like having to stay in-game for hours with no way to leave without losing your place in the 6-level map.

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So glad I'm not the only one who feels this way!

An easy solution would be to - dare I say it - just let us host the maps? A random rare portal made sense when the loot was all pinks. Now that the drops are rare, what if we just skipped the whole portal thing? It would certainly solve all the leeching/missing host/no way to save progress/etc problems.

I'm really excited about the new content, and I just wish we'd be able to play it without all this hassle, and play only a little at a time if that's all our schedule allows - which is what I love about PL in the first place.