Star Legends Beta Leaderboards to be Wiped for Launch

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Originally Posted by Lesrider

Why would you want it to wipe every time the level cap is raised? That doesn't make sense.

Also, talking SL, not PL here.

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Assuming 2 Leaderboards were to be implemented.

How do you determine what twink level leaderboard versus end-game leaderboard would be?

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Originally Posted by Ellyidol

Assuming 2 Leaderboards were to be implemented.

How do you determine what twink level leaderboard versus end-game leaderboard would be?

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I don't think they have any plans to ever wipe the PL leaderboards. As for SL, wiping after every level cap raise makes no sense bc that means nothing you did in the past will ever count. Clean slate every lvl cap raise means why even bother trying at all? Might as well not have a leaderboard (which I wouldn't argue with either :P).
Doing a wipe after a beta, before much damage is done, means that every kill anyone gets will be on equal footing. You get an advantage by being around for the earlier level caps and doing your level cap farming before the level cap is raised and it gets harder. Makes more sense than anyone at anytime being able to start a new char for the sole purpose of taking a slow but easy ride to the leaderboards.

And back to PL, unless STS has a way to determine how past k/ds were acquired, I don't see how they could have two leaderboards.

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Originally Posted by Lesrider

I don't think they have any plans to ever wipe the PL leaderboards. As for SL, wiping after every level cap raise makes no sense bc that means nothing you did in the past will ever count. Clean slate every lvl cap raise means why even bother trying at all? Might as well not have a leaderboard (which I wouldn't argue with either :P).
Doing a wipe after a beta, before much damage is done, means that every kill anyone gets will be on equal footing. You get an advantage by being around for the earlier level caps and doing your level cap farming before the level cap is raised and it gets harder. Makes more sense than anyone at anytime being able to start a new char for the sole purpose of taking a slow but easy ride to the leaderboards.

And back to PL, unless STS has a way to determine how past k/ds were acquired, I don't see how they could have two leaderboards.

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Agreed there, I think it's way too late if they decide to wipe PL leader boards, though if they do, can't disagree either, better really late than never :p

Haven't thought it out in detail, just threw it out there. I'm guessing that once level cap raises, the "end-game" leaderboard would be empty until xx/xx (new level cap/elite) levels would emerge. Until then, anything below that level belongs to the twink leader board. Idk, just a thought, decision of whatever kind is with STS as always anyway :)

I suppose if they wipe after every level cap raise, we don't have to worry about those people who can't handle a death ;). But it's basically like having no leaderboards at all.

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Originally Posted by Lesrider

I suppose if they wipe after every level cap raise, we don't have to worry about those people who can't handle a death ;). But it's basically like having no leaderboards at all.

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As Yanis said, "Wait...we have leaderboards?"

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Originally Posted by Kalielle

But I'm also scared that a whole bunch of people will now start caring about their everyday deaths way too much, and get mad at their group whenever they die, or stay behind and refuse to take risks. I tend to cringe when someone who is working on some ratio joins my groups. Ratio grinding in teams doesn't make for patient and understanding team players. So I was rather glad that most players did their grinding on their twinks, in the privacy of their own dungeons, and didn't inflict their ambitions upon every random group who didn't sign up for having to take extra care to keep them alive.

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That's the price to pay if they want to be on top of the KDR leaderboards. If they care too much about their ratios, let them grind privately instead of sabotaging their own efforts by joining random groups. If they want to drag a group of friends down along with them, then I believe they will fulfill some DSM-IV criteria for OCD :banana:

I have no idea how "twinking" has become so popular in this MMO as I have never seen this phenomenon expand so much in others, but all-in-all "twinks" and "leaderboards" should be completely segregated from each other. A low-leveled 'twink" grinding endlessly at Forest Haven is not a leader.

Man, those leaderboards really held the room together Dude.

Lol lvl 20 with no kdr sounds good to me :)

If the LB is filled with boosters then why not just get rid of the LB completely? It serves no real purpose except for self gratification. Most agree that the kdr doesn't make the player and since there is no real way to determine if the kills were farmed in FH or repeat CtK runs we can all agree that it's not impressing anyone once they find out how it's done. I know that when I had no deaths, I was accused of being a coward and just exiting the map before I could be killed; so I was booted from multiple games because of my kdr. There is never really going to be a way to prove just how the LB status was achieved, so why bother even having one?

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Originally Posted by Gluttony:361882

If the LB is filled with boosters then why not just get rid of the LB completely? It serves no real purpose except for self gratification. Most agree that the kdr doesn't make the player and since there is no real way to determine if the kills were farmed in FH or repeat CtK runs we can all agree that it's not impressing anyone once they find out how it's done. I know that when I had no deaths, I was accused of being a coward and just exiting the map before I could be killed; so I was booted from multiple games because of my kdr. There is never really going to be a way to prove just how the LB status was achieved, so why bother even having one?

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My sentiments exactly. Get rid of the thing, all it's caused is problems. I wasn't really aware there was a leaderboard until these arguments started and I started on PL before christmas.

I've never even once looked at the leaderboards. Honestly, not even sure I know how to get to them, but I have no interest anyway. :P

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Originally Posted by Ellyidol

How do you determine what twink level leaderboard versus end-game leaderboard would be?

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xp on (one board)
xp off (second)

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Originally Posted by Physiologic

I have no idea how "twinking" has become so popular in this MMO as I have never seen this phenomenon expand so much in others, but all-in-all "twinks" and "leaderboards" should be completely segregated from each other. A low-leveled 'twink" grinding endlessly at Forest Haven is not a leader.

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Have you ever played a MMo other then this? Twinking is a big huge part of almost all mmo.

high level farming -vs- low level farming - (Who can spend more time farming?) There nothing special about getting boards. It shows you have alot of time to farm.


....These games are small. very small because of what we play them on. People find ways to enjoy games. Twinking is a way.
((low level gear made me tons of money))

When they coear it imma keep one character at 0/0 :)

What if you are killed by a mob lower than your xp level range? Does your death not count? ;)

No kill counts for turned off xp? :|

If ur above a certain lvl in pl if u die in haven i dont think it should count lol

I believe PL boards were wiped a while back.

So XP locked farmers will be screwed over for kills while still being able to get deaths. I really thought you'd be reasonable about this. I am sorry, but I do not like this change.

A good level 51 pink drop in PL appears once in a week usually. The kills while farming for it were the only good thing to come out of that session. Why oh why do deaths have to count if kills don't while XP locked? It's severely unfair to those not abusing the XP lock for kills.

Bronislav, this is for SL. No need to worry about PL until they start talking about it there. They'll probably use SL as a test before even touching the PL system.

Also, since you would get kills counted even at 55/56 in the Sewers, perhaps locking xp at 51 will still get you them. Guess that's up to the devs to decide. Maybe you can get kills at the highest lvl campaign no matter what until it's no longer the highest level campaign. I dunno. But no need to worry about PL yet.

I was just using PL as an example, because there's no reason to lock yet for farming specific level drops in SL. I'm well aware this is currently for SL only, but Sam did say it will be coming to PL. In PL it would be unfair to XP locked farmers who lock very close to the level cap (In Sewer traps can crit and I've got a bunch of those in my death count) to he awarded deaths but no kills because a pink shows up very rarely.

Also people lock at 52.99 if they want 51 drops. You may know this already, but Sewer drops are bracketed: 52 and under get 51 stops, 53 and 54 get 53 drops, and 55/56 get 55 drops. Sewer also has zero random drops, and I hope in the new expansion ransom drops get added do it is more similar to the drop tables for other zones. I figure it was done this way to prolong the life of the campaign, but won't be needed anymore.

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Originally Posted by Gluttony

If the LB is filled with boosters then why not just get rid of the LB completely? It serves no real purpose except for self gratification. Most agree that the kdr doesn't make the player and since there is no real way to determine if the kills were farmed in FH or repeat CtK runs we can all agree that it's not impressing anyone once they find out how it's done. I know that when I had no deaths, I was accused of being a coward and just exiting the map before I could be killed; so I was booted from multiple games because of my kdr. There is never really going to be a way to prove just how the LB status was achieved, so why bother even having one?

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The purpose of this thread was to bring some meaning to the leaderboards, so your question was automatically answered.

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Originally Posted by Diodge

Have you ever played a MMo other then this? Twinking is a big huge part of almost all mmo.

high level farming -vs- low level farming - (Who can spend more time farming?) There nothing special about getting boards. It shows you have alot of time to farm.


....These games are small. very small because of what we play them on. People find ways to enjoy games. Twinking is a way.
((low level gear made me tons of money))

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I've played quite a few MMOs - Everquest, MS, La Tale, EVE, and a few free ones and "twinking" only exists as a very, very small subset population (less than 3-5%) of all players. It really isn't a huge part of all MMOs.

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Originally Posted by bronislav84

So XP locked farmers will be screwed over for kills while still being able to get deaths. I really thought you'd be reasonable about this. I am sorry, but I do not like this change.

A good level 51 pink drop in PL appears once in a week usually. The kills while farming for it were the only good thing to come out of that session. Why oh why do deaths have to count if kills don't while XP locked? It's severely unfair to those not abusing the XP lock for kills.

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You represent only an extremely small fraction of players that farm a specific dungeon, with locked XP, for lower-leveled pinks, which from what I understand is really used for:
1. To rip people off by tricking them into thinking they are lv 55 pinks
2. For dual specing, even though AO pinks can be used for loadouts (they are thousand-folds cheaper)

Is there any other major game-breaking advantages to farming lv 51/53 pinks over 55s? Because I really don't see any advantage...

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Originally Posted by Samhayne

To present a fair playing field for everyone, we will be wiping the Leaderboards for the launch of Star Legends: The Blackstar Chronicles. This means that your kills and deaths will be reset to Zero.

To accompany this change, we will also be changing how PvE kills are tallied. If the monster is appropriately leveled to you, or you are otherwise gaining experience from killing it, it will count toward your kills. If you disable XP or the monster is too low level to give you XP, it will not count toward your kills. Characters who are at the level cap and gain no further experience will still gain kills from monsters who are appropriately leveled against the character. For example, a level 21 character would still gain kill counts from monsters that were level 20, even though they no longer gain experience because they are at the level cap. To recap:

• Players receive no kill count if the victim can never give xp.
• No kill counts granted if the victim is too low level.
• Players will receive no kill counts if they have disabled xp gain.

To be clear, we are NOT wiping the Pocket Legends leaderboards. However, in the future, you can expect the change to not allow kill counts to accrue when XP is disabled to make its way to Pocket Legends.

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YES!!! :) LOL. I always thought that it was kinda stupid to be able to get kills when xp is disabled. Now that has happened. Because its easy NOT to die in the beginning levels and while getting kill after kill.

Awesome good news ;)

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Originally Posted by Conradin

Great job. I was hoping this would happen. And. Love the no xp no kills motto.

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I agree ;D completely :)

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Originally Posted by Samhayne

To present a fair playing field for everyone, we will be wiping the Leaderboards for the launch of Star Legends: The Blackstar Chronicles. This means that your kills and deaths will be reset to Zero.

To accompany this change, we will also be changing how PvE kills are tallied. If the monster is appropriately leveled to you, or you are otherwise gaining experience from killing it, it will count toward your kills. If you disable XP or the monster is too low level to give you XP, it will not count toward your kills. Characters who are at the level cap and gain no further experience will still gain kills from monsters who are appropriately leveled against the character. For example, a level 21 character would still gain kill counts from monsters that were level 20, even though they no longer gain experience because they are at the level cap. To recap:

• Players receive no kill count if the victim can never give xp.
• No kill counts granted if the victim is too low level.
• Players will receive no kill counts if they have disabled xp gain.

To be clear, we are NOT wiping the Pocket Legends leaderboards. However, in the future, you can expect the change to not allow kill counts to accrue when XP is disabled to make its way to Pocket Legends.

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That is awesome. Off to a good start.

Am I the only one who already had their Stats wiped ? yesterday i was about 3k kills, & today after some lvling (trying to get 21) i was at almost 1.5k -__- i was like woah o.o.

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Originally Posted by Ellyidol

Assuming 2 Leaderboards were to be implemented.

How do you determine what twink level leaderboard versus end-game leaderboard would be?

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It wouldn't be based on a specific level, but on whether your XP gain was disabled or not. Kills and deaths while your XP gain is disabled would count for the twink leaderboard, kills and deaths while your XP gain is not disabled would count for the other one.

Possible issues with this idea:
- someone aiming for the non-twink leaderboard could disable their XP during difficult dungeons, to make the deaths not count. (They probably couldn't do it just as they're about to die because it takes a bit to get to the menu.) Then again, I'm not sure this is such a bad thing. It would give people who are aiming for the leaderboards a way to take risks and join inexperienced groups they might otherwise have stayed away from.
- people at the level cap could get on the twink leaderboard by disabling XP. But since it's usually harder to get a good ratio on a high-level character, this probably wouldn't happen too often.

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Originally Posted by Physiologic

I have no idea how "twinking" has become so popular in this MMO as I have never seen this phenomenon expand so much in others, but all-in-all "twinks" and "leaderboards" should be completely segregated from each other. A low-leveled 'twink" grinding endlessly at Forest Haven is not a leader.

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Agreed. I've never been terribly impressed by forest haven grinding either - but some leaderboard twinks do use more challenging maps to level in (or at least they used to; not sure what the leaderboards look like now). As for why twinking is so popular, I think it gives people something to do when they're all geared up and at the cap. People basically create their own end-game content. And if someone is willing to grind a boring low-level map to get on a twink leaderboard - well, at least it keeps people in the game. And yes I agree that those folks should get their separate leaderboards from those at the cap.

Who said deaths won't count? Ugh they better bc you just opened a new can of worms -- locking xp to avoid deaths would be the new fad.

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Originally Posted by Emannyv93

Am I the only one who already had their Stats wiped ? yesterday i was about 3k kills, & today after some lvling (trying to get 21) i was at almost 1.5k -__- i was like woah o.o.

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na bro your the only one.

I still got my 23k kills =) maybe u looked to one of your other chars instead of the char with 3k kills?

Hmmm that's beta for you!

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Originally Posted by themars

I still got my 23k kills =) maybe u looked to one of your other chars instead of the char with 3k kills?

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u wont for long. hehehe Did you change your name?

Yes lol, I like this name more themars stands for theseus and Mars. Cause I don't play PL anymore I thought I could better take another name.

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Originally Posted by Lesrider

Who said deaths won't count? Ugh they better bc you just opened a new can of worms -- locking xp to avoid deaths would be the new fad.

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True, I guess deaths should actually always count for all leaderboards.

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Originally Posted by Lesrider

Who said deaths won't count? Ugh they better bc you just opened a new can of worms -- locking xp to avoid deaths would be the new fad.

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These are only rumors - I highly doubt this will be implemented. Deaths should count no matter what, in any instance.

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Originally Posted by Physiologic

You represent only an extremely small fraction of players that farm a specific dungeon, with locked XP, for lower-leveled pinks, which from what I understand is really used for:
1. To rip people off by tricking them into thinking they are lv 55 pinks
2. For dual specing, even though AO pinks can be used for loadouts (they are thousand-folds cheaper)

Is there any other major game-breaking advantages to farming lv 51/53 pinks over 55s? Because I really don't see any advantage...

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Not trying to hijack the thread, but farming lvl 51pinks is not to rip people off or trick them (and it's not for dual specing). It's to sell them to people who want to use them for the time it takes to get from 51 to 55. For example, a lvl 51 sewer king cap, scarab, and leather is only 4 armor and 9 damage less than the 55s but otherwise has the exact same stats (dex, hit, crit, regens). They can be used 25k xp earlier than the 55s. Thus, there's a market for them. Some people will pay a lot for them; some people think it's not worth the money. But the market that does exist is not a result of the farmers trying to trick people or rip them off.

End hijack.

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Originally Posted by AnotherAzi

Not trying to hijack the thread, but farming lvl 51pinks is not to rip people off or trick them (and it's not for dual specing). It's to sell them to people who want to use them for the time it takes to get from 51 to 55. For example, a lvl 51 sewer king cap, scarab, and leather is only 4 armor and 9 damage less than the 55s but otherwise has the exact same stats (dex, hit, crit, regens). They can be used 25k xp earlier than the 55s. Thus, there's a market for them. Some people will pay a lot for them; some people think it's not worth the money. But the market that does exist is not a result of the farmers trying to trick people or rip them off.

End hijack.

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That's what I don't understand though - these items don't even make set bonuses, and they are so overpriced it weirds me out. I have seen a handful of players confused as to why their lv 51 and 53 gear did not make sets, only to find out they would have to sell it eventually. But, if people want to drop dough on such overpriced gear, I guess that's the current market trend.

Another already explained it isn't a rip off so I'll explain the rest.

The low level 51 pink market caters to people who have a ton of ingame money to spend and want to have as painless as possible leveling experience from 51 to 55/56. They tend to vary from item to item, but while they are generally weaker than level 50 sets, they are somehow still cheaper than both level 50 set items and level 55 set items. For some people it's saving money because they can't afford level 50 sets, and for some people it's about "pinping out:" You wouldn't believe how slow the "last couple of levels" can feel without elixirs to somebody who just wants a capped character. On top of that, a low level pink can be put back into circulation immediately at 55, as opposed to level 55 ones which only get removed from the market because people want to wear them at the current endgame.

Oh, and while level 53 and 55 Brown/Purple items are 99% worthless, level 51 versions are also hot because they have the dame stats as their higher level counterparts for only slightly less armor/damage.

So yea, it isn't just for dual speccing, but that is one use.

I hope you understand now Physio. :) Oh, and locked farmers have been on the rise lately from what I've seen. STS really should implement deaths not counting while locked, too. If kills counting while locked is stupid, deaths counting while locked is moronic.

so the first to get a kill gets on leaders? That's gonna be me :D

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Originally Posted by bronislav84

Another already explained it isn't a rip off so I'll explain the rest.

The low level 51 pink market caters to people who have a ton of ingame money to spend and want to have as painless as possible leveling experience from 51 to 55/56. They tend to vary from item to item, but while they are generally weaker than level 50 sets, they are somehow still cheaper than both level 50 set items and level 55 set items. For some people it's saving money because they can't afford level 50 sets, and for some people it's about "pinping out:" You wouldn't believe how slow the "last couple of levels" can feel without elixirs to somebody who just wants a capped character. On top of that, a low level pink can be put back into circulation immediately at 55, as opposed to level 55 ones which only get removed from the market because people want to wear them at the current endgame.

Oh, and while level 53 and 55 Brown/Purple items are 99% worthless, level 51 versions are also hot because they have the dame stats as their higher level counterparts for only slightly less armor/damage.

So yea, it isn't just for dual speccing, but that is one use.

I hope you understand now Physio. :) Oh, and locked farmers have been on the rise lately from what I've seen. STS really should implement deaths not counting while locked, too. If kills counting while locked is stupid, deaths counting while locked is moronic.

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The reason sewer pinks and purps are used as boosters over ao is for a second or possibly third kit (12 stat points vs 8) however not counting deaths would be worst idea since Greedo shooting first. Can already see people locking before a boss to avoid a death. But IMO no matter what's done the people on the board will be populated by those that find the easiest path or spend the most plat on defense and attack elixirs.

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Originally Posted by Kraze

The reason sewer pinks and purps are used as boosters over ao is for a second or possibly third kit (12 stat points vs 8) however not counting deaths would be worst idea since Greedo shooting first. Can already see people locking before a boss to avoid a death. But IMO no matter what's done the people on the board will be populated by those that find the easiest path or spend the most plat on defense and attack elixirs.

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rlly?