Nerf Volta Dagger and reduce proc time period

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Originally Posted by Fwend

From reading all the feedback on this thread about nerfing the dagger.

There are valid opinions as to why it needs a nerf for the most strongest pvp class the Rhino and how this nerf will have adverse effects the weakest pvp class the Fox.

The most easiest solution for Cinco is to make the 105 sets classed based. However, many players love the option of using different sets for all classes.

Pvp balance has always been a strong focus with he PL community. Lack of it affects players motivation to continue to play the game, thus causing inactivity.

There is no easy fix solution, perhaps more feed back from serious pvpers regarding each class, the skills sets and what specifically needs to be changed, buffed or nerfed.

Hopefully Cinco will take all this on board and it will be a long process to please everyone.

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The solution of making sets class based isn’t smart. People like the freedom of choosing what the want to use on what class. 100 cap was dead and that was one of the reasons why. It will NOT help this situation it will just make the game boring when you’re forced to use a set that you don’t want to use. I’ve heard many dex bears/str mages (even though I don’t agree with them on using those sets) quitting at 100 cap because you’re forced to use one set. Keeping the variety and freedom in the game keeps it alive, I’m a serious pvper, that’s all I do on PL. So I feel my feedback is relevant to this situation.

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Originally Posted by Absolize

Right? Complaining about people trash talking she does that herself.

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This post isn't about trash talking. The post is an image displaying the candid state at which PVP is at for L105. See previous post by me. An image is worth a thousands words. Especially a candid image.




"By viewing this image with the comments from the players, the image provides you an idea when a rhino PVP against another class. 8-2 against a good mage. Another rhino comments " Dagger rhino looks deadly". The other rhino battling says "Epeasy". "

Attachment 168849

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Originally Posted by Jensmage

This post isn't about trash talking. The post is an image displaying the candid state at which PVP is at for L105. See previous post by me. An image is worth a thousands words. Especially a candid image.




"By viewing this image with the comments from the players, the image provides you an idea when a rhino PVP against another class. 8-2 against a good mage. Another rhino comments " Dagger rhino looks deadly". The other rhino battling says "Epeasy". "

Attachment 168849

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You just completely dodge whatever I say. Everyone will kill people in pvp and say “easy”, that literally means nothing just trash talk.

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Originally Posted by Absolize

You just completely dodge whatever I say. Everyone will kill people in pvp and say “easy”, that literally means nothing just trash talk.

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Focus on the score and the comment from the spectator rhino. "Dagger Rhino looks deadly"....


I believe Cinco is a wise person and will make a decision on how to improve PVP @L105. Lots of players have express their positive thoughts and that is thoughtful of them. we shouldn't discredit a post or a thread. We should provide positive feedback to improve the game.

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Originally Posted by Dolloway

After all is said and done, I hope that rhinos and foxes can get the tweaks that they deserve so that pvp can be more balanced.

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Agreed. Thank you for weighing in on this.

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Originally Posted by Absolize

The solution of making sets class based isn’t smart. People like the freedom of choosing what the want to use on what class. 100 cap was dead and that was one of the reasons why. It will NOT help this situation it will just make the game boring when you’re forced to use a set that you don’t want to use. I’ve heard many dex bears/str mages (even though I don’t agree with them on using those sets) quitting at 100 cap because you’re forced to use one set. Keeping the variety and freedom in the game keeps it alive, I’m a serious pvper, that’s all I do on PL. So I feel my feedback is relevant to this situation.

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The reason it was dead was not because of class restricted items. It was because of pure stat weapons (aka-P2W) that, combined with an OP class with a specific set of gear, will continue to kill pvp as a whole and make people less likely to venture to Pvp. Until P2W AND OP classes with specific gear are addressed and balanced out, pvp will die again. Thats a fact.

This is what I was trying to convey by that statement , by a serious pvper making a new thread about what needs to be changed to each class,

https://www.spacetimestudios.com/sho...P-Really-Needs
Thank you Walie.

Its not necessary to get personal and salty just because you don't like someone. Not every one wants to argue with others, some people would like to help with the balancing of pvp.

Lots of players suggested that PVP team should have a higher priority. Rhino Talon/Dagger set team CTF is an issue.

When playing 5v5 ctf rhino/talon causes an imbalanced in the team event.

I will list the reasons based on the 5v5 CTF yesterday.
1) Rhino with dagger when solo can most of the time win against a flagger in a short time period. Imagine a rhino dagger battling a flagger at the beginning and end of capturing a flag. The team wont score points because the rhino will kill the flagger. A team with non rhino cant have another player escort a flagger because the resource isn't available.
2) Rhino can cover a large area on the map.
3) When a talon rhino is in a 2v2 situation (5v5 ctf game) with proc on, they can slow down the flagger, tank with talon, and review until their team catches up.
4) a talon rhino can tank quite a long time with proc, high armor, dodge, and heal.


I am listing some questions that arises....
How is STS going to fix this issue when rhino can tank better with talon proc than Tyben Axe?
How is STS going to fix the issue where rhino dagger can own most of the the battles in a team or solo environment? When playing CTF, 1v1 does occur often during the critical moment of capturing flag and scoring at the end.


Should the sets be class based?

After reviewing this thread, I feel that a round of targeted class-based changes for Rhino and Ranger are the right next step.
Ranger needs an improvement to survival and the Rhino needs a nerf to damage output.
Both of these adjustments will have an impact on the utility of the Dagger.

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Originally Posted by Cinco

After reviewing this thread, I feel that a round of targeted class-based changes for Rhino and Ranger are the right next step.
Ranger needs an improvement to survival and the Rhino needs a nerf to damage output.
Both of these adjustments will have an impact on the utility of the Dagger.

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I agree. A slight damage nerf to rhino would not only make it take longer for them to kill, but give the other classes a bigger chance. But if the damage output was nerfed, I feel as if everything else should stay as is. Rhino would still be useable that way. But Cinco, the one thing I do request, please do not make classed based sets again. Not only me, but many others enjoy the freedom in choosing their playstyle in any class, it makes the game more interesting and fun that way to master something completely different. The dmg output nerf on rhino would do just fine.

Ya, don't make sets class based it makes pvp more interesting when every class can use any set

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Originally Posted by Cinco

After reviewing this thread, I feel that a round of targeted class-based changes for Rhino and Ranger are the right next step.
Ranger needs an improvement to survival and the Rhino needs a nerf to damage output.
Both of these adjustments will have an impact on the utility of the Dagger.

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Dagger proc shouldnt last as long as it does though. I counted atleast 7 seconds of being stunned. Id say reduce the time of being stunned to 5 seconds.

Rhino damage shouldnt be the only thing that gets a nerf. Tweak the rhinos buffs.
During 85 cap and even before all the way down to 76 when rhino/fox came out. Rhinos had to give up buffs for damage or damage for buffs with their skill points. With 85-100 cap, this gave rhinos 15 SKILL POINTS to add to their damage/heal/buff skills. THIS MEANS THEY COULD MAX OUT ALL BUFFS AND STILL DEAL GOOD DAMAGE. At that point, rhino became OP and way tankier then bear. Buffs for rhino need to be addressed aswell NOT just damage output.

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Originally Posted by Mine AGK

Dagger proc shouldnt last as long as it does though. I counted atleast 7 seconds of being stunned. Id say reduce the time of being stunned to 5 seconds.

Rhino damage shouldnt be the only thing that gets a nerf. Tweak the rhinos buffs.
During 85 cap and even before all the way down to 76 when rhino/fox came out. Rhinos had to give up buffs for damage or damage for buffs with their skill points. With 85-100 cap, this gave rhinos 15 SKILL POINTS to add to their damage/heal/buff skills. THIS MEANS THEY COULD MAX OUT ALL BUFFS AND STILL DEAL GOOD DAMAGE. At that point, rhino became OP and way tankier then bear. Buffs for rhino need to be addressed aswell NOT just damage output.

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The smart move is to do one thing at a time.
Also, I start ignoring you WHEN YOU WRITE IN ALL CAPS!!

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Originally Posted by Cinco

The smart move is to do one thing at a time.
Also, I start ignoring you WHEN YOU WRITE IN ALL CAPS!!

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One thing at a time, yes, but i dont understand why dagger ever got a proc spawn buff. It was fine on bear and even on fox. Fox, obviously as you have seen from feedback, is underpowered in terms of its armor and unrooting capabilities. So it couldnt use the dagger to its full potential.

With the 7 seconds it lasts and with the 8 second cooldown we have on all 1h weapon procs, proc is ready to activate again within 1 second of me being able to move again. Thats not enough time for anyone to heal/kite in order to keep distance from classes that can dash/pull their opponent.

Unintentionally passive aggressive torwards you. Im so used to having to put stuff in caps because people seem to skim over it because people pick and choose what other people say, or completely miss it altogether.

Though my point still stands. Buffs need to also be addressed for rhino as 15 extra skill points were gained from 85-100 and allowed the rhino to no longer have to compensate for its lower buffs or lower damage. This allows them to max out buffs and still allows them to put out decent damage vs enimies. Now adding 5 more skill points from 100-105 gave them 5 more points to increase their damage output.

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Originally Posted by Mine AGK

...as 15 extra skill points were gained from 85-100 and allowed the rhino to no longer have to compensate for its lower buffs or lower damage. This allows them to max out buffs and still allows them to put out decent damage vs enimies. Now adding 5 more skill points from 100-105 gave them 5 more points to increase their damage output.

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This issue, from my perspective, is not the number of skill points per level (which all players receive) but the number of buffs in the Paladin kit. It's totally cool for class kits to be asymmetrical but it means that my work on the Paladin will be 3x more complex than for other classes. Rest assured - changes are in the works ;-)

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Originally Posted by Cinco

After reviewing this thread, I feel that a round of targeted class-based changes for Rhino and Ranger are the right next step.
Ranger needs an improvement to survival and the Rhino needs a nerf to damage output.
Both of these adjustments will have an impact on the utility of the Dagger.

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Exactly.. fox is supposed to be half bear yet they cannot survive like one only puts out some nice dmg. Rhino does both the dmg and armor which makes it the more OP class towards endgame PVP

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Originally Posted by Cinco

This issue, from my perspective, is not the number of skill points per level (which all players receive) but the number of buffs in the Paladin kit. It's totally cool for class kits to be asymmetrical but it means that my work on the Paladin will be 3x more complex than for other classes. Rest assured - changes are in the works ;-)

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I see thats your stance. Maybe we can look into after the rebalance that you suggested? (Damage) Ill hold my suggestion of that until damager nerf.

Though is there any reworks of the dagger proc time? From several peoples perspective, it lasts a bit too long.

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Originally Posted by Cinco

After reviewing this thread, I feel that a round of targeted class-based changes for Rhino and Ranger are the right next step.
Ranger needs an improvement to survival and the Rhino needs a nerf to damage output.
Both of these adjustments will have an impact on the utility of the Dagger.

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Cinco may you ask these people where their input was when rhinos couldn't kill a thing from 76-85? I don't recall ever hearing dollo or walie or jen or anyone else saying rhinos are bad and need a buff? I came from 61 where a 61 rhino will lose to a 56 bear on a daily so i know what being Underpowered is, and i also did 17 rhino so i know what Overpowered is. The match i had with Jens team is legit proof debunking everything these people are complaining about as with dagger i failed at killing the flaggers many times even in solo. Now you can nerf the set i won't have a problem with, but DAMAGE input? We can go to the Arena of Honor right now to debunk this mess. When i lose 10-0, and trust me i will, come back here and say that rhinos damage is OP. Why is it that me and hook can 2v1 a mage and barely do damage as it is?

You want to Nerf rhino to balance it? Nerf Brute and nerf dex set. That's all you need to do because it's not the rhino that's op. It's the set they're using. I used STR set to fight a mage. I was near death 90% of the fight and i only won because of kite.

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Originally Posted by MageFFA

Cinco may you ask these people where their input was when rhinos couldn't kill a thing from 76-85? I don't recall ever hearing dollo or walie or jen or anyone else saying rhinos are bad and need a buff? I came from 61 where a 61 rhino will lose to a 56 bear on a daily so i know what being Underpowered is, and i also did 17 rhino so i know what Overpowered is. The match i had with Jens team is legit proof debunking everything these people are complaining about as with dagger i failed at killing the flaggers many times even in solo. Now you can nerf the set i won't have a problem with, but DAMAGE input? We can go to the Arena of Honor right now to debunk this mess. When i lose 10-0, and trust me i will, come back here and say that rhinos damage is OP. Why is it that me and hook can 2v1 a mage and barely do damage as it is?

You want to Nerf rhino to balance it? Nerf Brute and nerf dex set. That's all you need to do because it's not the rhino that's op. It's the set they're using. I used STR set to fight a mage. I was near death 90% of the fight and i only won because of kite.

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100% agree with this balance solution. It’s the set that does a crazy amount of DPS, so as a rhino I rely on the autos, my skill damage isn’t a factor at this point, I believe the sets can be nerfed, because like MageFFA said if you take rhino into honor arena it is completely useless. Anything can 10-0 a rhino in honor, and that is why people don’t complain about it there. I suggest set tweaking before rhino in general.

Let's talk about this dagger set for a minute also. Why is it that rhinos sre receiving heat for IT'S PROC. It's not like a mage can't use dagget set either? Last i check bears with daggers was always a great meta in PvP. Why are rhinos receiving heat when they can't even stun as much as a mage, bird and bear can? Rhinos stun consists of Rhino Might( WHICH NEEDS TO BE L.10 TO BE 100% STUN) and Holy Tempest that barely does that. Yet birds have 2 roots and avian scream . Bears have Hell Scream, Crippling Slash, Stomp, Beckon, Super mega slash and vengeful Slash. Mages have Frost and Icestorm which has crazy cool downs. All of these attacks has a chance to stun even if it doesn't say so in their description. Yet we're going to sit here and bash infinite stun on rhinos? Hypocrisy at it's finest people.