Why Rangers Shouldn't Use Bows/Crossbows

Lately I have seen a trend going on in the game. There are now rangers with bows and crossbows. This is greatly defeating the purpose of the ranger. The ranger is meant to have skills that get you close to the enemy and take them out fast with high dps(damage per second)using a dagger or dual wields. The bow defeats the purpose of the ranger because a ranger with a bow is basically an archer with different skills. This just doesn't seem original or right. So yes the skills will get you close to the enemy, but the enemy will do more damage before you kill it! I do believe that if you are fighting a boss and want to stay at a distance so you dont get killed. However, I believe that playing a class the way it was meant to be played is the best and most productive way to insure a great character. I understand that some of you will disagree, that is fine. I am simply stating my opinion in a way that you may be able to connect with. Plz comment below :)

as i said in a different thread, foxes do lots of dmg but daggers/dual dont have enough base dmg to take down a mage before it nukes u with an fb. Also the bears amount of health, birds dodge, and mages ms makes daggers/duals almost impossible to actually get a kill with. Im talking about pvp there, in pve, daggers/duals r better

Im talking about PvE but you are definitely right about the PvP part

Problem is that dual wields and daggers are just too weak, almost useless lol. For dex fox it's just better to use bow. Using bow doesn't mean you can't get close to enemys. And in campaigns after nuri, str/dex fox with str set is a lot better that full dex fox anyways IMO, they are just too squishy at those campaigns.

Well... Quite simply... You're wrong. Dual wields and daggers do more damage than a bow in a given amount of time. Like grrims said above, for PvE you should use a dagger or dual wields.

Well i agree but some peeps have different opinion im not saying ur wrong....
but i i kinddove disagree because using a bow for fox is moslty ksing and u kust need to find ur way to hax...

Okay. Thanks for telling your opinion in a respectful manner. I appreciate all of the feedback from anyone and hope that more people reply.

Well i agree but some peeps have different opinion im not saying ur wrong....
but i i kinddove disagree because using a bow for fox is moslty ksing and u kust need to find ur way to hax...

whoops i thinked my computer just glitched... ignore the secound part lol

ok. haha i was confused.

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Originally Posted by outcastranger

Well... Quite simply... You're wrong. Dual wields and daggers do more damage than a bow in a given amount of time. Like grrims said above, for PvE you should use a dagger or dual wields.

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Nope. It may look like that, because daggers/dual wields have higher attack speed =>higher DPS (dps shown in avatar page is just weapon damage divided by weapon speed. It doesn't take enemy armor into account).

Example (lvl 20 fox, 83 dex, 22 str, lvl 5 crafted armsman, 10 dmg ring):
(note: all weapon speeds are rounded to one decimal)

Bandit dual daggers (plat pack, best lvl 20 daggers): Damage 55-60, weapon speed 0.4s. DPS in avatar page is 150 ((55+60)/2/0.4, rounded down to first integer).
Lvl 20 momentarily forgotten bow: Damage: 117-162, weapon speed 0.9s. DPS in avatar page is 155 ((117+162)/2/0, rounded down to first integer).

So they seem to deal pretty same amount of damage in a unit of time, right? Well, against enemy with armor 25 (very easy basic enemy), the real damage dealt per secons is:

Dual daggers: 81.25 (((55+60)/2-25)/0.4).
Forgotten bow: 127.2 (((117+162)/2-25)/0.9).

Damage is more important than weapon speed (=DPS), because DPS doesn't take enemy's armor into account. Damage also increases skill damage. In higher levels there are better examples. End game dagger can have DPS ~700, while a weapon with DPS ~500 deals a lot more damage and has significantly higher skill damage. And basically, all dual wields suck. Daggers and talons can be good in some levels though.

Believing that DPS is more important than damage is pretty common misunderstanding for newer players.

O thx. This makes sense. Thanks for the information :) I feel like a noob LOL :)

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Originally Posted by Gragorak

Damage is more important than weapon speed (=DPS), because DPS doesn't take enemy's armor into account. Damage also increases skill damage. In higher levels there are better examples. End game dagger can have DPS ~700, while a weapon with DPS ~500 deals a lot more damage and has significantly higher skill damage. And basically, all dual wields suck. Daggers and talons can be good in some levels though.

Believing that DPS is more important than damage is pretty common misunderstanding for newer players.

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Thanks for the explanation. I have wondered about that.

I do agree with the general premise. If you want to play bow style, why not just use the bird? Bird skills seem ideal for that style. Of course, if you want to mix it up in close, why not use a bear? Foxes are stuck in between.

I am only a 33 fox, but so far, bosses are much easier to handle than mobs. Rage tonic and armor shredder with the combo attack does a nice job on the bosses I've seen so far.

I still feel like fox is the weakest class, and it's not close. But it is a fun class with all the darting and the cool looks. It's tough to solo levels. Tough to clear out mobs. Harder to come by good items. I think you have to live with that if you decide to go fox.

why is it the worst class. Mine is owning right now.

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Originally Posted by sanchomundo

Thanks for the explanation. I have wondered about that.

I do agree with the general premise. If you want to play bow style, why not just use the bird? Bird skills seem ideal for that style. Of course, if you want to mix it up in close, why not use a bear? Foxes are stuck in between.

I am only a 33 fox, but so far, bosses are much easier to handle than mobs. Rage tonic and armor shredder with the combo attack does a nice job on the bosses I've seen so far.

I still feel like fox is the weakest class, and it's not close. But it is a fun class with all the darting and the cool looks. It's tough to solo levels. Tough to clear out mobs. Harder to come by good items. I think you have to live with that if you decide to go fox.

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I think you are right about soloing with fox, it is tough. Mobs provide difficulty as fox is best at fighting single enemies. I think fox is great against boss tho and any single enemy, just mobs, especially ranged attack mobs, provide a tough time. The aoe moves fox has are ok but not enough to effectively clear mobs.

However, I disagree with your statement that fox is weakest class. I think rhino is. They seem to be somewhere between bear and mage but not as good at aoe as mage and cant keep aggro the way bear does. Fox is really fun to play as long as a bear is present. Playing fox has given me a special appreciation for bears. The way I see it, is they hold aggro and I kill everything, especially boss.

Just my opinions though.

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Originally Posted by Ghrowl

However, I disagree with your statement that fox is weakest class. I think rhino is. They seem to be somewhere between bear and mage but not as good at aoe as mage and cant keep aggro the way bear does. Fox is really fun to play as long as a bear is present. Playing fox has given me a special appreciation for bears. The way I see it, is they hold aggro and I kill everything, especially boss.

Just my opinions though.

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You are probably right. The two hybrid classes are kind of in no man's land. If you want to get up close and person, just use a bear.

I am level 43 now, still consider myself a noob, though I have my moments. What you said about playing with a good bear is true. When I end up in a group, I'm always happy to see a good bear or mage. I don't think anyone seems particularly excited to play with a hawk, fox, or rhino. Not that there aren't killer hawks, foxes, and rhinos out there - they just aren't as essential to mission success.

That makes sense

yeah hawks are more of a personal skill. if you always loved em youll be a dominator. but fox is just a class that i believe had no time and effort like the others. seems thrown together and sloppy.

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Originally Posted by Ghrowl

I think you are right about soloing with fox, it is tough. Mobs provide difficulty as fox is best at fighting single enemies. I think fox is great against boss tho and any single enemy, just mobs, especially ranged attack mobs, provide a tough time. The aoe moves fox has are ok but not enough to effectively clear mobs.

However, I disagree with your statement that fox is weakest class. I think rhino is. They seem to be somewhere between bear and mage but not as good at aoe as mage and cant keep aggro the way bear does. Fox is really fun to play as long as a bear is present. Playing fox has given me a special appreciation for bears. The way I see it, is they hold aggro and I kill everything, especially boss.

Just my opinions though.

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The thing is, had foxes been granted dual blades or daggers in endgame, they would have the potential to become next to OP compared to the birds, as they have 2 dash skills, 2 known self combos found so far, and has spammable Evasion to top it off.

However, after trying out with a fox myself, I think it is safe to say that playing with a ranged weapon for a fox should also be recommended, since I could dash about and switch targets at will. A ranged weapon also allows me to aim my Poison Darts well as it sort of acts like a 3rd player crosshair.

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Originally Posted by Wendellism

The thing is, had foxes been granted dual blades or daggers in endgame, they would have the potential to become next to OP compared to the birds, as they have 2 dash skills, 2 known self combos found so far, and has spammable Evasion to top it off.

However, after trying out with a fox myself, I think it is safe to say that playing with a ranged weapon for a fox should also be recommended, since I could dash about and switch targets at will. A ranged weapon also allows me to aim my Poison Darts well as it sort of acts like a 3rd player crosshair.

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How foxes would suddenly become op if they got one handed weapons with crappy damage? And talons are pretty much daggers with range btw, but still and foxes are not op.

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Originally Posted by Gragorak

How foxes would suddenly become op if they got one handed weapons with crappy damage? And talons are pretty much daggers with range btw, but still and foxes are not op.

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Well, technically I'm at a loss on how to explain that. Just a feeling that had dual blades or daggers made their way to the current level of Endgame PvP, Foxes would be next to OP besides birds.

I say foxes are good with a bow or daggers/dual wields. If a fox has a bow, its like a bear with a bow in the sense that (at least i do this) that a bear gets close to use up close skills and once there on charge move back and kite. In this way a fox is more versatile to do that as the skills for fox are quicker to get in and out of a close range situation. Also foxes evade skill provides a armor buff which can help.

yea man you right but bows get a lot of damage :D:saturn: i also do it in pvp and got 17 kills on my fox with bow:D :)

If the devs wouldve made new dual and dagger weapons for the fox class, then we'd probably see more foxes using dag/duals. I have 2 lvl 50 foxes and in the time i spent lvling each of them, I rarely saw any daggers or duals drop. I've been playing pl for about 2 years now and have not seen any good daggers worth mentioning. Pink daggers are almost none existant. The ones available in pl are ok but it might've been nice to get some new ones. Especially dual weilds. The only pink duals that drop first woukd be the ones in the shadow caves(correct me if i'm wrong cause i haven't seen any pink duals that drop before that besides the trash ones) maybe its time for new weapons. I personally would love to have a fox with dual or daggers that have better stats and cool looks. We've been using the same weps for a long time sts. I think it's about time for some new ones.Not like the forgotten weps -__- we don't need any more crazy stat weps destroying pvp. We need weps and armor to give our foxes a unique look and play style instead of being like a kiting bear or squishy dex bird.

I'm a level 69 Fox and I must say, it really isn't that great. You always need someone there to heal you or take all the aggro off of you. It's a real pain in the butt to play, but being a Fox has its moments. I have a level 50 mage and it is considerably easier and more enjoyable to play as a mage. The two new classes were just sort of thrown in. If you're looking for a good time, go with made, archer, or warrior. I do love this guy but nothing seems to be specialized for him.

I agree. I changed my main to a Mage a while ago and so now I'm a lv 65 Mage who owns a guild with over 100 members. It's great to be a class that specializes in something!!!!

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Originally Posted by xcainnblecterx

I say foxes are good with a bow or daggers/dual wields. If a fox has a bow, its like a bear with a bow in the sense that (at least i do this) that a bear gets close to use up close skills and once there on charge move back and kite. In this way a fox is more versatile to do that as the skills for fox are quicker to get in and out of a close range situation. Also foxes evade skill provides a armor buff which can help.

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Totally agree with this. I own a fox and a ranger with a bow is like a dex bear in the sense of what you said. And outcastranger, you may want to try a bow, you may enjoy it more than you know!!

Peanut xD

Rangers really shouldn't use bows and crossbows.They should remove thier right to use them.a

Two words: Hog and Wash.

If you don't like to use bow as a ranger, fine. I've seen plenty more rangers using knives or twin knives than bows, but I'm a bow-person for a variety of reasons.

1. The bow is more effective from long range - I can open gold chests faster with my arbalest (crossbow) than just about anyone else and I can hit and hurt from a distance. I don't usually do that b/c I'm kind of stupid in combat and dive right in.

2. I've tried a wide variety of knives and the puny little shields they let us carry (I have not ventured in releveling my STR/INT/DEX yet, so I might change to a knife/sword/whatever)

3. I can kill a lot of small critter before they ever get to me. That said, rangers are not ideal as you probably already know agaist big, heavy duty monsters. My best friend is a mage. :angel: and an angel she is.

4. I can add a counterpoint to a lot of attacks (I'm gonna post a question on ideal team composition in a bit). Would YOU include a fox on your ideal team? Running around shooting and hurting big things is a huge plus for ranger class, IMO.

5. One of the best things any bow-shooter can do is draw targets out when a room is too tough to just wade into. So, be friendly to birds and foxes carrying bows. :tranquillity:

6. The MAIN reason I use a Roper's Elegant Arbalest (a bargain and the best bow up to lvl 65 and carefully I've looked over a LOT of weapons). Think it's an orange weapon! Offers 10 armor, 137-141 damage, 0.6 speed, 10 dex, 4% hit, 1 H/s, 1 M/s and 364 DPS. Planning on a pink when I UL 1 more but this baby has been with me thru 7 levels!

The main reason, I say, is b/c I play using a keyboard and mousepad, cuz it's what I got. With that I use my left hand for the w/a/s/d movement (plus q and e for rotation), plus amping up red/blue potions with my right hand it's awkward to move, so I tend to plant and shoot. If I had a sword, I'd have to do more dancing that is easy for me with my setup.

There ya got my not-so-humble foxy opinion.

Or PL devs. could give us better shields. Ones requiring hi dex and good protection at the same time.

56 glyph mace set fox is pretty good

How Ever This Is Very True But Sts Kinda Broke Rangers Because Now In 100 Pvp We Goota USe THose UGh The dps is trash YEt I still Some How Manage