Again locked thread?

I have to respond, I dont understand, why you locked thread "cenzorship". It is not drama-making thread, it is thread about our opinions or we cant have opinions again you STS? I think this is freedom game and we can say what are we thinking about things...

A lot of people is paying you a LOT OF money and they cant say their opinion? It is little bit odd...

I know, that you will again lock this thread, because it is "drama making", but think about it. You are not answering, you are only locking threads? Is it right think to do? I dont think so, we are your CUSTOMERS not slaves and we can have opinion and they dont have to be always "good for STS"...

Can you at least answer, what was bad about that thread (cenzorship)?

You are free to your opinions, of course, and we want them, even if they are not "good for STS". The "censorship" thread had some sweeping generalizations and was non-constructive, so it was locked.

The forums are, first and foremost, here for us to get the pulse of the game directly from you. It is fine if you are critical of the game, but please bear in mind that tone is essential. We want to hear criticisms of the game. We don't want drama, or rants, or poisonous forums. If they become that way, the devs don't want to hang out here and you lose their ear. That is not a threat, it is an observation of human nature. So please, hang out and post all you want, but if you do feel the need to rant, don't be surprised if threads get locked or deleted.

Thanks,

- g

My two cents.

Bro, leave it alone. Don't drop the subject if you don't want but talk about it privately instead. I think the point being made by your previous thread getting locked is, in a nutshell...

Have your opinion. Post opinions and suggestions in the feedback forums, and don't clutter forums the devs enjoy reading with negativity they have to and obviously do sift through in other forums.

Whether something changes or not, the devs seem to recognize positive and negative elements. Beyond that it is their game that we choose to play. There is a fine line between consumer and provider where both sides have their merit. And I think, especially compared to many other studios, STS holds their end up quite well.

Ultimately, it's their forum. It's their game. Be glad we are even on here and only paying real money if we CHOOSE to. And whether the previous two threads were or not, THIS thread is intentionally inflammatory.

Yes, we choose to play this game, but if something is from our opinion bad, we can tell it, cant we? And someone should answer it I think. That is from my opinion relation-ship customer-provider. There is so many problems, that are still un-answered. I know, there will be new game, new lvl cap in AL, but I dont think, that is reason for no-solving problems.
Maybe I am completely wrong, I am not arguing, but I know, that if I behave to my customers in my work like this, soon I have no customers....

Sell Locked Thread of the Watch cheap :D (I'm out ->)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HeavenlyHand

Sell Locked Thread of the Watch cheap :D (I'm out ->)

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lmao

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HeavenlyHand

Sell Locked Thread of the Watch cheap :D (I'm out ->)

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lol, nice!

Also the devs are human too, and no one single dev is personally responsible for the game. If you've ever worked customer service, you'll know what a**holes some customers can be; sure, have and express opinions, but always remember that a real live human is on the receiving end of those opinions, someone who likely works very hard and cares a lot and has a lot outside their control (e.g. staffing/wage costs, other pressures we are not aware of, personal lives) so... lets say what we think and not be complete d*cks about it :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Justg

You are free to your opinions, of course, and we want them, even if they are not "good for STS". The "censorship" thread had some sweeping generalizations and was non-constructive, so it was locked.

The forums are, first and foremost, here for us to get the pulse of the game directly from you. It is fine if you are critical of the game, but please bear in mind that tone is essential. We want to hear criticisms of the game. We don't want drama, or rants, or poisonous forums. If they become that way, the devs don't want to hang out here and you lose their ear. That is not a threat, it is an observation of human nature. So please, hang out and post all you want, but if you do feel the need to rant, don't be surprised if threads get locked or deleted.

Thanks,

- g

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I'd also like to add that free speech rights only apply to public forums and this is a private forum. In reality, any other way is unworkable.

Just imagine if anyone could come off the street into your workplace and make an extremely offensive/disruptive speech while you are trying to get work done. Tell me you wouldn't shut them down and I'd laugh at your noobness. What if all that person had to do was claim, "FREE SPEECH NO CENSORSHIP!" and there was nothing you could do? You wouldn't be able to work, you'd lose your livelihood to free speech trolls. That's exactly what a lot of you are asking STS to do!

So yeah censorship is necessary and appropriate in a private setting.

STS doesnt want criticism, a lot of my posts with nothing more then facts got deleted. Dont waste your energy on thinking about things that go wrong in this game. Take it as it is or play something else.

STS is only a private company which has to earn money, everything else is not as important! Thats not too strange, is it?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Robhawk

STS doesnt want criticism, a lot of my posts with nothing more then facts got deleted. Dont waste your energy on thinking about things that go wrong in this game. Take it as it is or play something else.

STS is only a private company which has to earn money, everything else is not as important! Thats not too strange, is it?

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Well, no. We don't mind criticism at all. What we do mind is an angry tone, insults, rants, sweeping generalizations, and the like. You may come here for enjoyment, but the forums are our work place.

Have you ever been to a forum that is not well moderated? They are truly poisonous. Our forums here are home to the best community I have ever seen, due in large part to how great you guys are, and due in small part to how we manage and run the forums. This includes significant moderation.

We want you here, we want to hear what you like and don't like, but we need it to be a place where devs and players can interact. We've always said it: just be cool and we'll be cool.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Justg

Well, no. We don't mind criticism at all. What we do mind is an angry tone, insults, rants, sweeping generalizations, and the like. You may come here for enjoyment, but the forums are our work place.

Have you ever been to a forum that is not well moderated? They are truly poisonous. Our forums here are home to the best community I have ever seen, due in large part to how great you guys are, and due in small part to how we manage and run the forums. This includes significant moderation.

We want you here, we want to hear what you like and don't like, but we need it to be a place where devs and players can interact. We've always said it: just be cool and we'll be cool.

---

Hi Justg,

You are absolutely right, but :
If STS won't respond properly to proper critism and not take action do you really expect forumers not to rant and be frustrated as shown in some posts that have provided substantial evidence but was neglected by STS thus they rant.

Yes forums should be moderated but not in away that it is just to 'subdue' the issue and not address it as in the past serious and controversial issues all STS has provided half baked responses and not actionable responses

I agree that posts have to be proper, I myself was at fault at one time and I apologize, my thread was deleted as I ranted but to be honest that was the only thread that got a response so I would advice to please evaluate your response team first as a forumer will never be frustrated if properly responded to.

I still love this game and I hope it doesn't fade so please give AL some care and attention

Thanks

G's post is very true. If you don't take a hard line on bad attitudes - meaning dramatic, non-constructive and trollish - it's a very very slippery slope into total chaos. I've been admin on multiple forums professionally for the last 10 years, and have seen it all. STS moderates their forums exceptionally, I would prefer to see the game moderated that well, but we take what we can get.

I run my guild the same way - 0 tolerance for bull. Once you start letting that slide, you end up with a guild full of beggars and scammers, random invites, and insults when officers aren't available 24/7 to help with daily quests in the middle of an explansion... The more you allow, the more people push - without strict guidelines that are stuck to, there's no progress at all.

I even agree with some of these threads that have been locked, but it's all in how you approach the topic. If you lay it out constructively and offer solutions, rather than just announcing something sucks and STS devs are mean - well, you may find you get much better results.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Serancha

G's post is very true. If you don't take a hard line on bad attitudes - meaning dramatic, non-constructive and trollish - it's a very very slippery slope into total chaos. I've been admin on multiple forums professionally for the last 10 years, and have seen it all. STS moderates their forums exceptionally, I would prefer to see the game moderated that well, but we take what we can get.

I run my guild the same way - 0 tolerance for bull. Once you start letting that slide, you end up with a guild full of beggars and scammers, random invites, and insults when officers aren't available 24/7 to help with daily quests in the middle of an explansion... The more you allow, the more people push - without strict guidelines that are stuck to, there's no progress at all.

I even agree with some of these threads that have been locked, but it's all in how you approach the topic. If you lay it out constructively and offer solutions, rather than just announcing something sucks and STS devs are mean - well, you may find you get much better results.

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Hi sera,

You and Justg are absolutely right but I just want to point out that maybe STS has to look at it from another perspective.
Why focus on the rant when it is more important to find why they are ranting in the first place.

As mentioned some of the most substantial post with logical and empirical evidence that targeted sensitive issues was negleted and dismissed by STS as some believe STS did not want to address the issue... If such actions are done does STS really expect people not to be frustrated and to rant?

I don't condone their actions but before STS claims forumers rant too much STS should first ask... 'Has STS really done everything they can to avoid such a person from ranting?' If not them address it if yes then delete the post

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Maarkus

Hi sera,

You and Justg are absolutely right but I just want to point out that maybe STS has to look at it from another perspective.
Why focus on the rant when it is more important to find why they are ranting in the first place.

As mentioned some of the most substantial post with logical and empirical evidence that targeted sensitive issues was negleted and dismissed by STS as some believe STS did not want to address the issue... If such actions are done does STS really expect people not to be frustrated and to rant?

I don't condone their actions but before STS claims forumers rant too much STS should first ask... 'Has STS really done everything they can to avoid such a person from ranting?' If not them address it if yes then delete the post

---

Dude ? is this really you? Wahahah in forums? Omg its a miracle!

Anyways see you soon Love you!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Maarkus

Hi sera,

You and Justg are absolutely right but I just want to point out that maybe STS has to look at it from another perspective.
Why focus on the rant when it is more important to find why they are ranting in the first place.

As mentioned some of the most substantial post with logical and empirical evidence that targeted sensitive issues was negleted and dismissed by STS as some believe STS did not want to address the issue... If such actions are done does STS really expect people not to be frustrated and to rant?

I don't condone their actions but before STS claims forumers rant too much STS should first ask... 'Has STS really done everything they can to avoid such a person from ranting?' If not them address it if yes then delete the post

---

Maarkus,

Did you ever worked with a salary in your life? Is everybody in your team working on the very same thing? So you're telling me that a locked thread by Just-G means STS is putting all their time on censoring? Just-G probably just came in to read our feedback, for the sake of having a direct contact with players. Moderators have one job, Moderating. They don't have much programming knowledge, and even if they had: it's not their job. What was said above is very correct, I can't have said better. It's not empirical and logical evidence that STS are neglecting sensitive issues, this is called a Hasty Conclusion. To prove it, I offer you to scroll down the AL General Discussion and look for the threads where players talk about the skill revamp. G-M was pretty comprehensive. You won't see any ranting or bad talking in those threads because it's either locked or removed. Moderators are doing a really good job atm. The warrior skill repair will happen soon, they just repaired the rogue skill before, or because it was on their way. Be patient, Patience is a Virtue.

Have an Ice day,
DC

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dragoonclaws

Maarkus,

Did you ever worked with a salary in your life? Is everybody in your team working on the very same thing? So you're telling me that a locked thread by Just-G means STS is putting all their time on censoring? Just-G probably just came in to read our feedback, for the sake of having a direct contact with players. Moderators have one job, Moderating. They don't have much programming knowledge, and even if they had: it's not their job. What was said above is very correct, I can't have said better. It's not empirical and logical evidence that STS are neglecting sensitive issues, this is called a Hasty Conclusion. To prove it, I offer you to scroll down the AL General Discussion and look for the threads where players talk about the skill revamp. G-M was pretty comprehensive. You won't see any ranting or bad talking in those threads because it's either locked or removed. Moderators are doing a really good job atm. The warrior skill repair will happen soon, they just repaired the rogue skill before, or because it was on their way. Be patient, Patience is a Virtue.

Have an Ice day,
DC

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Hi,
Yes, i do work to earn a living and yes i do manage a team that work on different projects at the same time and yes my team does have faults but we dont leave an issue for a year and pretend that its all ok ... Or we dont leave a client hanging for a year and say after a year that we will look into a problem that we said we will look at a year ago.

I think the message of my thread was not conveyed properly or mis understood thus i repeat in a simpler way :
Before you accuse the guilty of ranting first look the topic, check if it was addressed, if not then address it, if the issue was addressed and indeed provide substancial moderation for the rant.

Patience is indeed a virtue i agree... So if one year of waiting is not enough please advice how many years more inhave to wait.

Thanks

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Maarkus

Before you accuse the guilty of ranting first look the topic, check if it was addressed, if not then address it, if the issue was addressed and indeed provide substancial moderation for the rant.

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You are missing the point here. We know issues exist. They always will. The way they are communicated is what is important. Rants are immature and non-productive. It is not the way to communicate a point if you want a two-way conversation.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Maarkus

Hi,
Yes, i do work to earn a living and yes i do manage a team that work on different projects at the same time and yes my team does have faults but we dont leave an issue for a year and pretend that its all ok ... Or we dont leave a client hanging for a year and say after a year that we will look into a problem that we said we will look at a year ago.

Patience is indeed a virtue i agree... So if one year of waiting is not enough please advice how many years more i have to wait.

---

Not sure what you do for a living but managing Live games is one of the craziest things I have ever done. Everything changes on a daily basis. Priorities are constantly shifting and come in from all directions, including emergent issues (like latency), executive priorities (we have our own things we'd like fixed), hot items from the community (innumerable, but Productor is doing a good job of prioritizing them), issues that QA would like addressed, and development team's roadmap. This schedule constantly has to be re-balanced and adjusted based on several variables. The community wants hard dates, or at least a window into what we are working on, and the danger there is whenever we say anything it becomes an expectation. And when priorities shift, as they always do, we get dinged if things are not exactly as we predicted. So we have to find a balance between what we tell the community (who want to know everything) and what we just work on knowing that it is for the good of the game. So the one year old issue you are referring to? Start a thread, be nice about it, and see how the discussion goes.

theres one simple thing I learned here on forums..and everywhere else lol.

"You will catch more bees with honey then salt" :)
-Some guy or girl on the internet

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Justg

You are missing the point here. We know issues exist. They always will. The way they are communicated is what is important. Rants are immature and non-productive. It is not the way to communicate a point if you want a two-way conversation.



Not sure what you do for a living but managing Live games is one of the craziest things I have ever done. Everything changes on a daily basis. Priorities are constantly shifting and come in from all directions, including emergent issues (like latency), executive priorities (we have our own things we'd like fixed), hot items from the community (innumerable, but Productor is doing a good job of prioritizing them), issues that QA would like addressed, and development team's roadmap. This schedule constantly has to be re-balanced and adjusted based on several variables. The community wants hard dates, or at least a window into what we are working on, and the danger there is whenever we say anything it becomes an expectation. And when priorities shift, as they always do, we get dinged if things are not exactly as we predicted. So we have to find a balance between what we tell the community (who want to know everything) and what we just work on knowing that it is for the good of the game. So the one year old issue you are referring to? Start a thread, be nice about it, and see how the discussion goes.

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Noted.
So we must accept that certain things cannot be fixed within 2years.

i work in the interior fitout and construction field where projects like villas, retail unit and offices have to be delivered in a tight time frame to specification ... Yes situations do change everyday ... Just as a backgrounder but indeed irrelevant to AL but as the principle of delivering at a deadline is accross fields

regarding that one year thread... Posts were done constructively but the issue is its not addressed so i guess the real thing im waiting for sts to say is 'we dont know when we will fix it but we will ' ... To be honest thats a hard line for any client to accept (especially in my field)

I guess my main mistake is to expect that i deserve an answer when in reality we technically dont... I mean this is sts property right... So in effect we should just be grateful at all if sts does address the issues found in the game

Thanks for reading, it is much appreciated

Thanks Maarkus, and much respect for being in another crazy industry. Another way to understand expectations of individual replies is to realize that we sometimes get at ~ a post per minute here. In any given day there are hundreds, if not thousands of new posts. As CEO, I have the luxury of hanging out here with you guys, but many of the core development staff have actual work to do during the day and may miss the fluid conversations that take place. We encourage all our devs to participate with you here, but they are head's down on other things as well. That being said, if you PM me a link to your latest thread with questions about your one-year-issue I will make sure I get eyes on it.

Best,

- Gary

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Justg

Thanks Maarkus, and much respect for being in another crazy industry. Another way to understand expectations of individual replies is to realize that we sometimes get at ~ a post per minute here. In any given day there are hundreds, if not thousands of new posts. As CEO, I have the luxury of hanging out here with you guys, but many of the core development staff have actual work to do during the day and may miss the fluid conversations that take place. We encourage all our devs to participate with you here, but they are head's down on other things as well. That being said, if you PM me a link to your latest thread with questions about your one-year-issue I will make sure I get eyes on it.

Best,

- Gary

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Thank you for the reply and noted.

Ive sent the PM as suggsted.

-Maarkus

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Justg

Thanks Maarkus, and much respect for being in another crazy industry. Another way to understand expectations of individual replies is to realize that we sometimes get at ~ a post per minute here. In any given day there are hundreds, if not thousands of new posts. As CEO, I have the luxury of hanging out here with you guys, but many of the core development staff have actual work to do during the day and may miss the fluid conversations that take place. We encourage all our devs to participate with you here, but they are head's down on other things as well. That being said, if you PM me a link to your latest thread with questions about your one-year-issue I will make sure I get eyes on it.

Best,

- Gary

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Any hint on this very delicate and important issue about skill update? This game is massive and has reach maturity but 2+ years now, can we be optimistic that we'll get a skill revamped/update this year?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Maarkus

Noted.
So we must accept that certain things cannot be fixed within 2years.

i work in the interior fitout and construction field where projects like villas, retail unit and offices have to be delivered in a tight time frame to specification ... Yes situations do change everyday ... Just as a backgrounder but indeed irrelevant to AL but as the principle of delivering at a deadline is accross fields

regarding that one year thread... Posts were done constructively but the issue is its not addressed so i guess the real thing im waiting for sts to say is 'we dont know when we will fix it but we will ' ... To be honest thats a hard line for any client to accept (especially in my field)

I guess my main mistake is to expect that i deserve an answer when in reality we technically dont... I mean this is sts property right... So in effect we should just be grateful at all if sts does address the issues found in the game

Thanks for reading, it is much appreciated

---

Well said!

+1

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Maarkus

Noted.
So we must accept that certain things cannot be fixed within 2years.

i work in the interior fitout and construction field where projects like villas, retail unit and offices have to be delivered in a tight time frame to specification ... Yes situations do change everyday ... Just as a backgrounder but indeed irrelevant to AL but as the principle of delivering at a deadline is accross fields

regarding that one year thread... Posts were done constructively but the issue is its not addressed so i guess the real thing im waiting for sts to say is 'we dont know when we will fix it but we will ' ... To be honest thats a hard line for any client to accept (especially in my field)

I guess my main mistake is to expect that i deserve an answer when in reality we technically dont... I mean this is sts property right... So in effect we should just be grateful at all if sts does address the issues found in the game

Thanks for reading, it is much appreciated

---

Yes, that is exactly the feeling, that I have...

I have been doing an insane amount of complaining here lately. To the point where i thought my statements might cross the line into flaming but all my remarks stayed up. I don't think they are here to censor anything but more to conduct preventative maintenance. We all suffer a bit from a "mob mentality" regarding how we feel about certain things ig. When we see ppl sharing a similar stance on a hot topic it can cause a frenzy. I wasnt happy to see someone's post on sunsets and happy trails get removed, but i also didn't see what caused the deletion of the thread. Lets just try to drive our point home more with our heads and not our hearts. I will say that the state of the game currently is dire and tbh, i think the mods here have been doing a good job of allowing us to express ourselves however frustrated we may be. Post smart, dont go rambo thinking a mod is going to see it and say, oh well this guy means business, let's get right on that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gorecaster

We all suffer a bit from a "mob mentality" regarding how we feel about certain things ig. When we see ppl sharing a similar stance on a hot topic it can cause a frenzy.

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Exactly. That is precisely why we moderate. Appreciate your understanding of the issue.

But you also have to understand Justg is that, although on one side I understand the vague answers on some of our most "hot topics", on the other side you also have to understand that sometimes it brings a sentiment like we are just here to fill your pockets and that is all.

I also understand, althought I dont agree on how it seems it is being managed, that you guys have a lot going on with the new game development/marketing campaign. But bear with me on this one just for a moment, I'm not trying to rant or anything here, but if we take a close look at how your business seems to be conducted, we can assume (as I said before, I'm a consultant, I know that on a professional relationship we should never assume things, it is misleading) that AL will be just one more page on your portfolio, like previous games before AL became.

Now, you might be thinking, it's just a game guys, we are launching a new better one. Remember that although it is just a game, the social component is huge. I can say for sure that I made friends - even thought I probably will never meet them - in this game, that we had fun playing and when we look at how things seems to be done, we can assume that sooner or later AL - the place where we get to meet fabulous ppl and have fun together - will become just an entry on your portfolio. Bug fixing, although is a good thing, shouldn't come this late, talking from what I experienced on my professional life and I might and hope to be wrong here, I saw that when people where closing the door. Make the product stable, deliver and do the ocasional maintenance. Always happened in a similar time when something new was becoming their focus and the company didn't have the necessary workforce to work on both. As I said, it is an assumption, as a consultant I know we should never do such a thing but here I'm not a consultant, just a "client".

That's why we might write more with our "heart" sometimes than with our "head". I did my fair share of rant. I wasn't feeling like quiting for the reasons above explained and felt that AL was being left aside which led to that.

I do hope you don't take this as a rant, I quited playing so I have no more reason to do so. I'm just pointing out the reasons that are leading to all this complaining at forums. I still think that some easy things like a 5th skill upgrade along with the fixing the current skills will bring balance back to all classes in PVE/PVP and I also agree with a post that Candylicks made that right now Farmers need a bone and as far as I can be of some help, I'll keep trying to do some constructive inputs in this forum.