Can we have some transparency about PVP plans?

It's been a couple of years since pvp has had any real action. I feel there's been numerous threads with various suggestions on how to fix pvp. Can we have some feedback to let us know if we can expect any real changes and when those changes will take place? Many of us are hanging around for pvp to be revived and have no interest in the pve aspect of this game (no offense). It'd be nice to know if we should hang in there and wait or move on to something else to pass the time.

ty

Reviving pvp at this point would need something pretty big. Most have quit already.

And the devs are committed to non-stop PvE events so I don't see anything PvP happening now or in the future.

When we asked about any changes that may happen to help mages in pvp, Cinco pretty much said- mages should only duel mages if you want balance. :livid:

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Originally Posted by Stephencobear

When we asked about any changes that may happen to help mages in pvp, Cinco pretty much said- mages should only duel mages if you want balance. :livid:

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I saw that thread and it makes no sense to do that. They want to encourage pve team play but that's not balanced either. The entire timed leader board is dominated by rogues. Any mage or tank on lb is being carried. Pvp was what kept people farming to make gold so they could be competitive. What's the point of obtaining good gear without pvp? Maybe I'm missing something

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Originally Posted by sellall

I saw that thread and it makes no sense to do that.

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Agreed. I was hoping we could get back to a paper scissors rock thing but hopes dashed

By spending money with the false precept that pvp is balanced we got scammed by sts. Thats how i feel about it anyway.

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Originally Posted by schrodinger's cat

By spending money with the false precept that pvp is balanced we got scammed by sts. Thats how i feel about it anyway.

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I don't think it's ever been balanced tbh but it was always playable and competitive. Some seasons favored tanks, others mages or rogues. It's mostly favored rogues but a geared mage was able to beat a lesser geared or lesser skilled rogue. That's far from being the case anymore. IIRC, remiem used to host weeks where pvp kills were turned off and they would monitor kills / deaths of each class to adjust and balance pvp classes. Maybe they'll balance it again, maybe they won't. I'd just like to know what they plan on so I can move on or stick around. I'm sure others feel the same way.

Do people even give (pardon my language) a **** about balance or actually finding people in pvp?

Someday people should stop asking for balance in pvp....dont forget what happend to Thanos that wanted balance :P ...there should not be balance between characters of different class....to play against same class if u want balance :P

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Originally Posted by Boysetsfire

Someday people should stop asking for balance in pvp....dont forget what happend to Thanos that wanted balance :P ...there should not be balance between characters of different class....to play against same class if u want balance :P

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Seems fair to have to do all those pvp ap's vs only one class huh?

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Originally Posted by sellall

I saw that thread and it makes no sense to do that. They want to encourage pve team play but that's not balanced either. The entire timed leader board is dominated by rogues. Any mage or tank on lb is being carried. Pvp was what kept people farming to make gold so they could be competitive. What's the point of obtaining good gear without pvp? Maybe I'm missing something

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Did you just seriously say that mages and tanks are carried? XD Every class is equal overall just not in individual maps, but there r maps tanks shine in and maps mages shine in, rogues don't dominate at all, sure there are lots of them on there but that's because there are more rogues than anything else. Rogues can't match mage aoe in earlier maps, there are some early maps where 4 rogues would easily be beat by 3 mages 1 rogue or even 4 mages one with lots of dmg. Later maps tanks get to shine with their amazing ebon aegis and tb. Mid level maps are where rogues truly shine. But every class plays it's role in timed runs which is what makes them imo the most fun feature in the game, as every class is mostly balanced overall. Sorry if the first sentence sounded a little snarky, but your point there isn't true. At all

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Originally Posted by Shocan

Did you just seriously say that mages and tanks are carried? XD Every class is equal overall just not in individual maps, but there r maps tanks shine in and maps mages shine in, rogues don't dominate at all, sure there are lots of them on there but that's because there are more rogues than anything else. Rogues can't match mage aoe in earlier maps, there are some early maps where 4 rogues would easily be beat by 3 mages 1 rogue or even 4 mages one with lots of dmg. Later maps tanks get to shine with their amazing ebon aegis and tb. Mid level maps are where rogues truly shine. But every class plays it's role in timed runs which is what makes them imo the most fun feature in the game, as every class is mostly balanced overall. Sorry if the first sentence sounded a little snarky, but your point there isn't true. At all

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Agreed, wise words. Rogue is no longer unstoppable force or not "the only useful instrument" on the map anymore.

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Originally Posted by Shocan

Did you just seriously say that mages and tanks are carried? XD Every class is equal overall just not in individual maps, but there r maps tanks shine in and maps mages shine in, rogues don't dominate at all, sure there are lots of them on there but that's because there are more rogues than anything else. Rogues can't match mage aoe in earlier maps, there are some early maps where 4 rogues would easily be beat by 3 mages 1 rogue or even 4 mages one with lots of dmg. Later maps tanks get to shine with their amazing ebon aegis and tb. Mid level maps are where rogues truly shine. But every class plays it's role in timed runs which is what makes them imo the most fun feature in the game, as every class is mostly balanced overall. Sorry if the first sentence sounded a little snarky, but your point there isn't true. At all

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My point, which you took out of context, was that Cinco had mentioned he want's to encourage pve team play (thus ignoring pvp balance), but I was saying that pve is not balanced either (clearly dominated by rogues). Please stay on topic because we would like to hear if sts has plans to revive pvp or not and I don't want the thread to get shut down by becoming derailed.

Seeing that the developers haven't responded to your thread, it leads to two things, they don't want news about in game PvP to be transparent or that there is no valid point/reason to respond.

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Originally Posted by Shocan

Did you just seriously say that mages and tanks are carried? XD Every class is equal overall just not in individual maps, but there r maps tanks shine in and maps mages shine in, rogues don't dominate at all, sure there are lots of them on there but that's because there are more rogues than anything else. Rogues can't match mage aoe in earlier maps, there are some early maps where 4 rogues would easily be beat by 3 mages 1 rogue or even 4 mages one with lots of dmg. Later maps tanks get to shine with their amazing ebon aegis and tb. Mid level maps are where rogues truly shine. But every class plays it's role in timed runs which is what makes them imo the most fun feature in the game, as every class is mostly balanced overall. Sorry if the first sentence sounded a little snarky, but your point there isn't true. At all

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Each class has some situations where they shine a bit more than the others, that is common knowledge. But to say all classes are balanced overall (both PvE and PvP) and every class has its role in Timed Runs... just doesn't make sense.

Justg mentioned many times that classes were supposed to be balanced between each other, Mage>Tank>Rogue, like Rock-Paper-Scissors. Cinco now said that to make a balanced PvP fight we should use 2 same class characters with exact same gear. While he is correct in a way, it also means that in duels between different classes, STS doesn't care if Tanks have an advantage over both Rogues and Mages, or Mages not being able to beat Tanks or Rogues, just other weaker Mages, etc.

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Originally Posted by arcanefid

Each class has some situations where they shine a bit more than the others, that is common knowledge. But to say all classes are balanced overall (both PvE and PvP) and every class has its role in Timed Runs... just doesn't make sense.

Justg mentioned many times that classes were supposed to be balanced between each other, Mage>Tank>Rogue, like Rock-Paper-Scissors. Cinco now said that to make a balanced PvP fight we should use 2 same class characters with exact same gear. While he is correct in a way, it also means that in duels between different classes, STS doesn't care if Tanks have an advantage over both Rogues and Mages, or Mages not being able to beat Tanks or Rogues, just other weaker Mages, etc.

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I never stated they're balanced in pve and pvp, they're not supposed to be. If you want balance you take 2 cars that are the exact same and race them. The world doesn't work like that tho, if you use 2 different cars however it's going to be unbalanced, as would be expected. Mages were great during the last event, 2 mages were best. Tanks are amazing too in situations, as are rogues. But there can't be balance.

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Originally Posted by Shocan

I never stated they're balanced in pve and pvp, they're not supposed to be. If you want balance you take 2 cars that are the exact same and race them. The world doesn't work like that tho, if you use 2 different cars however it's going to be unbalanced, as would be expected. Mages were great during the last event, 2 mages were best. Tanks are amazing too in situations, as are rogues. But there can't be balance.

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You literally said they are balanced overall though. And no, classes don't work like cars, you can't just compare anything that comes to your mind to prove your point, because that's not how the world works. Try using something more similar, maybe another game where PvP, PvE, and overall balance of classes actually works, I'm sure there are many of them.

And also, balanced does not mean equal. And we know classes can't be perfectly balanced, but I'm sure there are many ways to at least make the difference smaller.

Anyway though, if you think that classes are balanced because Warrior dominates one season, then Mages dominate next one, Rogues the next one, etc., then you're missing the point of balance. That's not how balance works. Why can we not have a season where all 3 classes are useful and none of them is the absolute best?

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Originally Posted by arcanefid

You literally said they are balanced overall though. And no, classes don't work like cars, you can't just compare anything that comes to your mind to prove your point, because that's not how the world works. Try using something more similar, maybe another game where PvP, PvE, and overall balance of classes actually works, I'm sure there are many of them.

And also, balanced does not mean equal. And we know classes can't be perfectly balanced, but I'm sure there are many ways to at least make the difference smaller.

Anyway though, if you think that classes are balanced because Warrior dominates one season, then Mages dominate next one, Rogues the next one, etc., then you're missing the point of balance. That's not how balance works. Why can we not have a season where all 3 classes are useful and none of them is the absolute best?

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No. I said overall in terms of running, as in overall over maps, not in pvp. And yes, you can compare whatever you think of, that's how a metaphor works. I'm not going to argue further, you don't get this whatsoever, classes aren't balanced, they shouldn't be, if you've got a problem with that play another game. The devs made their point, and point that makes perfect sense, if you can't understand it it's your problem, there's a reason the devs haven't replied to this thread, it's basically another duplicate and you just don't get it. Thanks for your time, Cinco has already commented on the matter of balance between classes, this is pointless

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Originally Posted by Shocan

No. I said overall in terms of running, as in overall over maps, not in pvp. And yes, you can compare whatever you think of, that's how a metaphor works. I'm not going to argue further, you don't get this whatsoever, classes aren't balanced, they shouldn't be, if you've got a problem with that play another game. The devs made their point, and point that makes perfect sense, if you can't understand it it's your problem, there's a reason the devs haven't replied to this thread, it's basically another duplicate and you just don't get it. Thanks for your time, Cinco has already commented on the matter of balance between classes, this is pointless

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I think we agree on more than you think. If it's really true that they're not going to fix pvp, then why keep the maps and the achievements that go with it. I have 1500 flags and I was abused for every one of them. Not a single flag came from a buddy system flagging. Is that really the direction the game is going to where you need 10,000 flags, 4 at a time? I'd rather sit on a grenade. They're keeping those achievements for a reason, I'd like to think but I could be wrong. I quit 2 years ago, minus a quick comeback a year ago. I've been gearless ever since but I used to have all the best gear and pets, aka spending money. If you don't care about pvp zyou don't have to comment. Some of us have been sitting in limbo and I think it's fair to have a little clarity from sts or open discussion with them after 7 years of playing this game (and 2 years of waiting for a fix).

PVP has been dead for so long, I don't even know if they plan to revive it.

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Originally Posted by Shocan

No. I said overall in terms of running, as in overall over maps, not in pvp. And yes, you can compare whatever you think of, that's how a metaphor works. I'm not going to argue further, you don't get this whatsoever, classes aren't balanced, they shouldn't be, if you've got a problem with that play another game. The devs made their point, and point that makes perfect sense, if you can't understand it it's your problem, there's a reason the devs haven't replied to this thread, it's basically another duplicate and you just don't get it. Thanks for your time, Cinco has already commented on the matter of balance between classes, this is pointless

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Yeah sure, classes shouldn't be balanced, I don't know why everyone is so upset bruh.

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Originally Posted by arcanefid

You literally said they are balanced overall though. And no, classes don't work like cars, you can't just compare anything that comes to your mind to prove your point, because that's not how the world works. Try using something more similar, maybe another game where PvP, PvE, and overall balance of classes actually works, I'm sure there are many of them.

And also, balanced does not mean equal. And we know classes can't be perfectly balanced, but I'm sure there are many ways to at least make the difference smaller.

Anyway though, if you think that classes are balanced because Warrior dominates one season, then Mages dominate next one, Rogues the next one, etc., then you're missing the point of balance. That's not how balance works. Why can we not have a season where all 3 classes are useful and none of them is the absolute best?

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It's Utopia man... Ideal can't be reachable in this situation. Even in games like Dota 2 which is MOBA genre but still have some weaker and stronger heroes there. PC games same thing. World of warcraft for example: in some situation mages are stronger, in some situation warriors and so as rogues. If all classes will become the same what a point to have multiple different classes? Another thing is maybe pve content favours rogue more than two other classes? Because its about who kills faster, where rogue is the grandmaster. My opinion is that we need more dungeons with difficult lvl as Deep Marsh bosses or harder with interesting boss/creeps mechanics instead of wasting time over obvious things... Tdm mode is not popular like used to be, because people don't wanna take reality, they think that someday old stable business model will change as they wanted too see it. Game is alive, ebon items are cool, content is decent for such mobile game, we have a lot of cool events, so could you tell me what a point for Sts to change it? Duel? What is duel - it's sparring room, basically we need it to see how things work, to play with friends for creating new tactics for our class, for better understanding role in the map. It means nothing at all, no aps, no reward, no lb, not entertaining as good team fight, who even cares about Duel mode? Unfortunately tdm now currently broken, because we have no class limits per room. It's very bad because allows to stack warrior team and making it useless to play. . .

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Originally Posted by Browdy666

It's Utopia man... Ideal can't be reachable in this situation. Even in games like Dota 2 which is MOBA genre but still have some weaker and stronger heroes there. PC games same thing. World of warcraft for example: in some situation mages are stronger, in some situation warriors and so as rogues. If all classes will become the same what a point to have multiple different classes? Another thing is maybe pve content favours rogue more than two other classes? Because its about who kills faster, where rogue is the grandmaster. My opinion is that we need more dungeons with difficult lvl as Deep Marsh bosses or harder with interesting boss/creeps mechanics instead of wasting time over obvious things... Tdm mode is not popular like used to be, because people don't wanna take reality, they think that someday old stable business model will change as they wanted too see it. Game is alive, ebon items are cool, content is decent for such mobile game, we have a lot of cool events, so could you tell me what a point for Sts to change it? Duel? What is duel - it's sparring room, basically we need it to see how things work, to play with friends for creating new tactics for our class, for better understanding role in the map. It means nothing at all, no aps, no reward, no lb, not entertaining as good team fight, who even cares about Duel mode? Unfortunately tdm now currently broken, because we have no class limits per room. It's very bad because allows to stack warrior team and making it useless to play. . .

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I’m not really interested in duels actually, I just used that as an example because Cinco did it too. And also I’m aware that all classes shouldn’t be the same or equal to each other. But it’s clear that Rogues have an advantage in more than at least 50% of the situations. Do you think Tanks would be useful in Deep Marsh or Raid, or even PvP clashes if we didn’t have Ebon aegis? Why should a whole class be useful only if they own a specific weapon? What about a level 65 Warrior who can’t equip a TB or Ebon aegis?

Anyway, I’m done here. Let’s see what happens in the next expansion. I guess that’s our only option now.

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Originally Posted by arcanefid

I’m not really interested in duels actually, I just used that as an example because Cinco did it too. And also I’m aware that all classes shouldn’t be the same or equal to each other. But it’s clear that Rogues have an advantage in more than at least 50% of the situations. Do you think Tanks would be useful in Deep Marsh or Raid, or even PvP clashes if we didn’t have Ebon aegis? Why should a whole class be useful only if they own a specific weapon? What about a level 65 Warrior who can’t equip a TB or Ebon aegis?

Anyway, I’m done here. Let’s see what happens in the next expansion. I guess that’s our only option now.

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Yes we had tb before. Do you think rogue would be useful in Deep Marsh or Raid without Ebon bow ? Same example. Owl bro, Sts made warriors proc so OP exactly to compensate such thing with rogue. It was always so in AL. 65 lvl ? Why? What a point of being half-warrior? Who wants to be 65 lvl if there is no place for him in Al? 63 lvl bracket is active btw. It's same thing as 70 is useless compare to 71 because of arcane ebon gear. Why it is wrong for your opinion? I don't get it. Owl, till next update I'd like to make this topic hot, more voices = better chances, so i think that your opinion is important here ;) And yes you right let’s see what happens in the next expansion :)

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Originally Posted by Browdy666

Yes we had tb before. Do you think rogue would be useful in Deep Marsh or Raid without Ebon bow ? Same example. Owl bro, Sts made warriors proc so OP exactly to compensate such thing with rogue. It was always so in AL. 65 lvl ? Why? What a point of being half-warrior? Who wants to be 65 lvl if there is no place for him in Al? 63 lvl bracket is active btw. It's same thing as 70 is useless compare to 71 because of arcane ebon gear. Why it is wrong for your opinion? I don't get it. Owl, till next update I'd like to make this topic hot, more voices = better chances, so i think that your opinion is important here ;) And yes you right let’s see what happens in the next expansion :)

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Yeah lol all classes need the best weapon, I used level 65 as an example because at that level a warrior can't equip TB or Ebon Aegis. By the way, my name in game is Fid and I'm not related to any Owl :P Except he's my guilide. :P Maybe it's because of the sig? XD

Ebon armors are perfectly balanced. They are not the problem.

I just got ebon armor and it seems the proc is fair both on PvE/PvP. In PvP the proc boost is not what i thought it was; It seemed those screen shots people had sent showcasing the ebon armor proc buff were either in festerfang with mireguard or had multiple buffs active. In PvE zones respectively.

But ebon weapons with the reflection procs & Awakenings are what need to be thoroughly examined and given proper attention in PvP's case. But they're completely fine in PvE. So 1+ for that.

All reflection type of attacks in every game with PvP is always complex and needs a limit.

Good job dev's on the ebon gears. They truly feel "Arcane" and i respect that. PvE has become fun again.

PvP on the other hand. We need a brand new PvP zone that gives pre-prepared heroic gears for everyone, which can exclusively be worn there. As for pets; Anyone can choose their preference. :)

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Originally Posted by arcanefid

Yeah lol all classes need the best weapon, I used level 65 as an example because at that level a warrior can't equip TB or Ebon Aegis. By the way, my name in game is Fid and I'm not related to any Owl :P Except he's my guilide. :P Maybe it's because of the sig? XD

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Sorry, i tought your old ign was Owl. I understand now Fid

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Originally Posted by Flamesofanger

Just to clarify. Ebon armors are perfectly balanced. They are not the problem.

I just got ebon armor and it seems the proc is fair both on PvE/PvP. In PvP the proc boost is not what i thought it was; It seemed those screen shots people had sent showcasing the ebon armor proc buff were either in festerfang with mireguard or had multiple buffs active. In PvE zones respectively.

But ebon weapons with the reflection procs & Awakenings are what need to be thoroughly examined and given proper attention in PvP's case. But they're completely fine in PvE. So 1+ for that.

All reflection type of attacks in every game with PvP is always complex and needs a limit.

Good job dev's on the ebon gears. They truly feel "Arcane" and i respect that. PvE has become fun again.

PvP on the other hand. We need a brand new PvP zone that gives pre-prepared heroic gears for everyone, which can exclusively be worn there. As for pets; Any one can choose their preference. :)

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Agreed weaker in pvp but stronger in pve. Nice stuff. Warrior needs it. As for new mode what kind of? We have tdm, ffa, ctf so what else can be added for example?

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Originally Posted by Browdy666

Agreed weaker in pvp but stronger in pve. Nice stuff. Warrior needs it. As for new mode what kind of? We have tdm, ffa, ctf so what else can be added for example?

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Indeed. Warriors do need ebon armor & ebon aegis. It's a saver.

We need a new PvP zone with no awakenings, Pre-prepared gears that can't be changed. & Any pet as regular PvP. It'll be about skills & teamwork.

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Originally Posted by Flamesofanger

Indeed. Warriors do need ebon armor & ebon aegis. It's a saver.

We need a new PvP zone with no awakenings, Pre-prepared gears that can't be changed. & Any pet as regular PvP. It'll be about skills & teamwork.

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what trips me out is that Cinco had that very idea way back here on the AL forums, but then he made it only for PL (so far).

There its called the "Honor arena" , why its not here, idk -.-'

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Originally Posted by Flamesofanger

Indeed. Warriors do need ebon armor & ebon aegis. It's a saver.

We need a new PvP zone with no awakenings, Pre-prepared gears that can't be changed. & Any pet as regular PvP. It'll be about skills & teamwork.

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Mode without awakes will never happen. No point for sts to do that. It's now about team work as well ask Purge if you want or Precise.

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Originally Posted by Stephencobear

what trips me out is that Cinco had that very idea way back here on the AL forums, but then he made it only for PL (so far).

There its called the "Honor arena" , why its not here, idk -.-'

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Hello, Mr.Bear could you tell me about this mode ? I'd like to imagine it. What is this ? Why its good? Can we have it in Al for your opinion ?

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Originally Posted by Browdy666

Hello, Mr.Bear could you tell me about this mode ? I'd like to imagine it. What is this ? Why its good? Can we have it in Al for your opinion ?

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“Can we have it?” I’d guess yeah, and why not when we can pointlessly fight in one town? lol.
I thought maybe you had started in pl also? I may be mistaken =)

Here’s some background if u wanted
https://www.spacetimestudios.com/sho...ht=Honor+arena
https://www.spacetimestudios.com/sho...ht=Honor+arena
https://www.spacetimestudios.com/sho...vent-this-week!
https://www.spacetimestudios.com/sho...Vanity-WEAPONS!!
https://www.spacetimestudios.com/sho...evel-30-and-up!
Slightly out of chronological order, oops.
Cheers

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Originally Posted by Stephencobear

“Can we have it?” I’d guess yeah, and why not when we can pointlessly fight in one town? lol.
I thought maybe you had started in pl also? I may be mistaken =)

Here’s some background if u wanted
https://www.spacetimestudios.com/sho...ht=Honor+arena
https://www.spacetimestudios.com/sho...ht=Honor+arena
https://www.spacetimestudios.com/sho...vent-this-week!
https://www.spacetimestudios.com/sho...Vanity-WEAPONS!!
https://www.spacetimestudios.com/sho...evel-30-and-up!
Slightly out of chronological order, oops.
Cheers

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No, i just like rhino. I'll check all your links, thanks

Honestly just give up. It's been what? 6 years now? They obviously don't care.

They are aware any big pvp implementations will at least double their profits.

Problem is they don't see doubling profits and dealing with cheaters as a good balance.

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Originally Posted by Perceval

Honestly just give up. It's been what? 6 years now? They obviously don't care.

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You playing this game or just crying on forum about "ohhh they don't care"? They do care otherwise population and activity in the game will be already dead. This topic for people with HOPE we don't need useless negativity here. If you have bright idea to share with community then do it, if not then leave it. Because i see no constructive criticics from you. If you really thinking like that then just give up and change the game :)

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Originally Posted by Browdy666

You playing this game or just crying on forum about "ohhh they don't care"? They do care otherwise population and activity in the game will be already dead. This topic for people with HOPE we don't need useless negativity here. If you have bright idea to share with community then do it, if not then leave it. Because i see no constructive criticics from you. If you really thinking like that then just give up and change the game :)

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People had hope around 6 years ago.

The devs can revisit threads from around 6 years ago to see exactly the point you're making now.

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Originally Posted by Browdy666

Agreed weaker in pvp but stronger in pve. Nice stuff. Warrior needs it. As for new mode what kind of? We have tdm, ffa, ctf so what else can be added for example?

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Battle royale ofc :D

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Originally Posted by Perceval

People had hope around 6 years ago.

The devs can revisit threads from around 6 years ago to see exactly the point you're making now.

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In my opinion, pvp looked well and alive during the years 2014-2016. Overall the game was very well populated. Almost every Map and outpost was full with tons of players. Pvp was pretty balanced where the Mage, Rogue, Warrior whom had stronger and better gear would of been the last to die or first to kill.

Reason why pvp died down since 2016 was because the release of The ‘Awakening System’. Since sts kept releasing new items like belt and artifact, the awakening category grew larger because they also allowed the players to awaken their regular items like ring, amulet, armor and weapon. Since everyone wanted to be better than “the next guy over”. Everyone found out that In order to be better than the rest, they would need to out-tank the challengers. And so began the death of pvp.

Even if they would disable awakenings for pvp, it won’t revive it. It’s a bit too late for that. Maybe a queue system would help but I don’t see pvp recovering after all this.


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