Feedback: Mythic Upgrade Quest

I'm not going to comment much on the overall difficulty of the expansion, since my opinions are somewhat biased based on my former MMO experience and having good gear/friends in AL. However, I would like to take the time to comment a bit on the difficulty of the mythic armor upgrade quest.

As a disclaimer, I am a long-time gamer who started playing RPGs with D&D pen and paper, then dabbled in MUDs such as Runescape, and finally moved on to the digital MMORPGs such as UO and EQ (5 years), DAoC (2 years) and WoW (3 years). I am used to quests living up to their definition: complex, puzzling adventures that require time, strength, intellect, and determination. I realize that MMORPGs have evolved quite a bit over the years, catering more towards the younger generation of gamers and streamlining game dynamics to make them easier to follow and "more enjoyable" (for the casual gamer). I also realize that AL is a unique hybrid of casual and hardcore gaming, filling the niche between the two styles of game play. With that being said, here is my feedback on the mythic armor upgrade quest:

For weeks, I've been anticipating the day where we embark on a long, arduous quest line to upgrade our L26 mythic helm and L31 mythic armor into the best armor available in the game. I expected a lengthy quest line, with many challenges and hurdles that required a full group of skilled players to enter the elite realm of the campaign and "farm" for rare drops. I expected this quest to take me at least a few days to complete - maybe even a week or so if the drop rates that I had envisioned was to be a reality. However, none of this is the case. I ended up completing this entire quest line within 2 hours, partnering up with my good rogue friend in game. To summarize the quest line in a brash manner: you basically talk to some NPCs, inspect Nordr runes, dish out 100k gold for an non-stash item, kill the end boss once in normal mode, and then grind crates/barrels in normal Kraken maps for an hour. After venturing through this utterly trivial content, you are rewarded with the best gear in the game. Hardly an adventure of skill and intellect that deserves the grand title "The Hero of Legends", in my opinion.

I'm sure its safe to say that this quest line was mindfully developed so that it wouldn't be absurdly difficult and that it gave all players an equal opportunity to achieve the armor, thus minimizing the polarization of players' gear in end-game content (PvP mostly). I am respectful of the fact that everyone does indeed deserve an equal opportunity to achieve the upgraded gear. However, let's be honest: the majority of players who have the L26/31 mythic gear are already hard-working, determined players who are without a doubt capable of embarking on a much more difficult quest line than what we're faced with. Since it's a mandatory requirement to own both mythic pieces before you initiate the quest, the argument of players being incapable of facing tougher content is somewhat moot. Additionally, the fact of the matter is, not one segment of the quest line is difficult for a L36 player. From my perspective, it's probably safe to say that it can all be accomplished by a L31 player in Noble/Champions gear (still requires a party for Inan'hesh, though). The only two aspects that I appreciate about this quest is that you can't solo the final boss very easily (forcing you to party up with a friend), and that the drop rate of the fragments is extremely low.

So enough ranting. It's more than likely too late to change anything about this quest. Any modifications to it's difficulty would be unfair the population who haven't completed it yet. However, hindsight is 20/20, and maybe the next epic quest you develop for a game will consider my points.

1. Having us backtrack to Nordr is great. The story line that was encompassed into the quest was very creative and fun to read. Problem: going back to normal Nordr to inspect the runes is trivial, and just busy work. Have us go back to Elite Nordr, where the three respective bosses in each zone (Oltgar, CC, Valheim) have "taken a piece of the rune for themselves" and we must kill them appropriately to obtain it. Make the drop rate about the same as a silver chest (rare, but not too rare).

2. Having us kill Inan'hesh is very appropriate to the story line. Make it the Elite version. Remember, you're giving us the best armor in the game. Shouldn't it require an elite party killing an elite boss for elite gear? Sorry for the over emphasis :)

3. Dishing out 100k is fine. Honestly, I was expecting 300-500k. Not much to comment about this.

4. Having us backtrack to Kraken is also great. The destroying of crates and barrels for fragments is a long, boring grind, with low drop rates. This is how a quest of epic proportion should be - so great job with this. However, again, the elite bosses should be included into the story line. Perhaps old Elite Bloodhammer has taken the largest chunk of fragment, and we have to get it back from him.

In summary, the mythic armor upgrade quest is a flop for players like me who had high expectations for a truly "mythic-grade quest". The bottom line is, you made it entirely too easy, taking away from the prestige and uniqueness that comes with wearing the armor (which looks fantastic, btw) and title "The Hero of Legends". Sadly, the title only implies "Just Another Legend" with mythic gear (sorry, that sounded kind of harsh, but its true).

All in all, I am satisfied with the new campaign. I am already anxious to see what special events come forth as the months go by - I know you have some great ideas to show us. Thanks again STS for all your hard work and dedication to your fans. I plan on opening up more feedback threads as I venture through the new content. Enjoy your holiday weekend!

I 100% agree! This mythic upgrade quest was totally un-fun and was well below my expectations.

I haven't done the quest yet, but yes it sounds too easy that 2 days later many players have already completed it. I'm not sure if you played PL, but I was hoping for something like the ichor quest, or the quest for the level 50 cyber set gear. Something that would take some considerable time and effort. I think the ichor quest took most players a month to complete, and the cyber quests (there were different quests for each of the 4 pieces of gear) took at least that long as well.

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Originally Posted by Energizeric

I haven't done the quest yet, but yes it sounds too easy that 2 days later many players have already completed it. I'm not sure if you played PL, but I was hoping for something like the ichor quest, or the quest for the level 50 cyber set gear. Something that would take some considerable time and effort. I think the ichor quest took most players a month to complete, and the cyber quests (there were different quests for each of the 4 pieces of gear) took at least that long as well.

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I look forward to your feedback upon completion of the quest.

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Originally Posted by Energizeric

I haven't done the quest yet, but yes it sounds too easy that 2 days later many players have already completed it. I'm not sure if you played PL, but I was hoping for something like the ichor quest, or the quest for the level 50 cyber set gear. Something that would take some considerable time and effort. I think the ichor quest took most players a month to complete, and the cyber quests (there were different quests for each of the 4 pieces of gear) took at least that long as well.

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I think a month would be slightly too long... I mean, the effort towards earning mythics is a conquest in itself. Therefore, isn't that the challenge? Although I'm full mythics and would enjoy a hardcore quest, take a look at it from players who are earning mythics right now.

Think about it... after that grueling process of saving up for a mythic set, the process to upgrade it has to be grueling as well? IMO, yes, it should be made more difficult but not so difficult to drive people crazy after they've already saved up so much for mythics.

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Originally Posted by Apollo

I think a month would be slightly too long... I mean, the effort towards earning mythics is a conquest in itself. Therefore, isn't that the challenge? Although I'm full mythics and would enjoy a hardcore quest, take a look at it from players who are earning mythics right now.

Think about it... after that grueling process of saving up for a mythic set, the process to upgrade it has to be grueling as well? IMO, yes, it should be made more difficult but not so difficult to drive people crazy after they've already saved up so much for mythics.

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Think about this.....what else do we have to do for the next 4 months??

Yes, I spent most of the Nordr campaign saving up for 4 mythic items (already had the helm before Nordr) and a Hammerjaw egg. Now I have those items, and I have another 4 months of Shuyal to do what exactly?

Yes, I will be saving up for the Arcane staff, but if I were a rogue or warrior, I'm not sure what I would do with myself at this point. It seems far too early to jump into PvP and be bored with PvE already.

I agree, except for the part about the barrels/crates... that was just boring and tedious. It felt more like "I'm out of ideas, let's make them run in circles for hours."

Thanks for the feedback!

We will be adding more content later down the road, and some more involved questlines are a great way to entice and engage our more hardcore players. As a player of some of the same MMO's as the OP, I'm inclined to agree. The number of players that will participate in the upgrade quest line is going to be substantial, and we have to respect the fact that we are a casual/hardcore mix of a player base.

Moving forward, we may be able to put some resources into some more very serious questlines and requirements for the players that care for such endeavors. Probably not of the "grind artifact fragments in Ulduar for 4 months and throw 50 of them into the mouth of Yogg Saron during phase 5" involved, but we'll see what we can do :)

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Originally Posted by Valsacar

I agree, except for the part about the barrels/crates... that was just boring and tedious. It felt more like "I'm out of ideas, let's make them run in circles for hours."

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The thought was more along the lines of making the player return to the location where the Mythic Helm was originally located in chests as a drop to tie it to the lore, but I can admit it may not be the most exciting of events :)

Tbh I agree that the quest were in fact simpler than expectation, then switched to the feel that I deserved it after many2 runs at kraken smashing the barrels (without a clear indication whether it should be solo run).but the long and tiring thing becomes annoying nt because its challenging or difficult.simply coz its annoying.if the low drops should give more thrill I disagree.as again its by chance and for those who did not loot their mhytics and having to buy it with hardships this is not equal to its value of being a mhytic.

I must say STS did a very good job on the armour and helm design work to buff its physical value.but the essense of being mhytic is lost from the quest offered.not saying that it should be harder or fighting new boss with absurd dificulty.but it lacks solid content that bring the players to be drown inti its history for example, clear ties and chain of events as to mantain its core rpg format.I think new season has been perceived more as reaching cap quickly and then only into the game without stronger ties to the story.I think some or most who rushed to cap (including me) are suffering from this perceived thought.it can be argued due to its concept of being mmo too but I feel when it goes down to something specific like mhytic that's where you reconnect it with the story to spark the excitement.

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Originally Posted by Carapace

The thought was more along the lines of making the player return to the location where the Mythic Helm was originally located in chests as a drop to tie it to the lore, but I can admit it may not be the most exciting of events :)

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Oh, I liked the going back part, that was good... just the barrel part not so much... At least if it had been barrels in elite only that would have made it more of a challenge.

P.S. Why does my sorc helm still have 2.8dmg while all the others have 6?

It should have said at least.

Kill all elite bosses including Inanahanaha enraged

Just saying lol

for player who have Mythic armor is great but for me and the rest of us who play this games who dont have money to buy mythic armor its very... i dont know to say.. i agreed with @soundlesskill its just LOL...

How to upgrade the mythic helm and armor, what is the quest to be finish?

I was let down by how easy this was. Also the last part where you go around smashing crates and barrels was the most boring part. I was expecting to have to purchase some gear while I worked to get the upgraded gear. So this saved me some gold, but that also means it saved a lot of other people some gold. So I think this will hurt the economy because people won't be buying up new gear because they already have the best.

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Originally Posted by Carapace

The thought was more along the lines of making the player return to the location where the Mythic Helm was originally located in chests as a drop to tie it to the lore, but I can admit it may not be the most exciting of events :)

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Carapace: The best quest I can think of was the ichor quest in PL. Even that could have used some changes, but here is why it was fun....

1) It was a new dungeon specifically for this quest.

2) While doing this quest, you had the chance to get a really good/rare/expensive item drop that was not available anywhere else (Black Dragon Helm & Armor).

3) It was a long grind, and only the really dedicated players would spend the time.

4) There was no requirement to do this quest, nor was the reward items (elite weapons) necessary to play the game.

5) It was a limited time quest, and then was discontinued. Players like getting items that will be discontinued -- there is an exclusiveness to this which makes it more fun and more worth their time.


The changes I would have made to the ichor quest are:

1) I would have made it so that you did not have a "chance" to loot an ichor each time you killed the boss, but one was guaranteed each time. Players prefer not to have to rely on luck to finish a quest. If you wanted to make the quest harder, then make it 1000 ichors needed instead of 500. But at least we would have an idea of how long it would take. The other way you could sometimes play for an hour without looting a single ichor.

2) Make it possible to trade/sell the reward item (elite weapons). Some players may want to do the quest as a way of earning money. They do the quest and then sell the item to another player for a lot of gold. Make this possible.

3) Make the stats on the elite weapons slightly better than other weapons -- there has to be an advantage to doing the quest other than just having a rare item. That item should provide some kind of advantage over other items, even if the advantage is a small one.


So to sum up, maybe offer a mythic item of some kind, make it slightly better than any other item that goes in that slot, make it a limited time quest, and make it something that would take players a long time to finish (a couple of weeks of game play at least). If it's too easy then everyone will do it and it will be nothing special. And while doing this quest, make some other item (maybe a super rare arcane item?) be a very rare drop that can be found by a select few players running the dungeon.

To be honest, the 'breaking the barrels/crates' thing annoys me a lot. It's rather pointless, why can't we defeat normal Bloodhammer instead, just like upgrading the armor by defeating the devourer. I have been breaking crates for hours and I'm still 5/16, alternating between Harbor and Skull Cove.

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Originally Posted by Energizeric

Carapace: The best quest I can think of was the ichor quest in PL. Even that could have used some changes, but here is why it was fun....

1) It was a new dungeon specifically for this quest.

2) While doing this quest, you had the chance to get a really good/rare/expensive item drop that was not available anywhere else (Black Dragon Helm & Armor).

3) It was a long grind, and only the really dedicated players would spend the time.

4) There was no requirement to do this quest, nor was the reward items (elite weapons) necessary to play the game.

5) It was a limited time quest, and then was discontinued. Players like getting items that will be discontinued -- there is an exclusiveness to this which makes it more fun and more worth their time.


The changes I would have made to the ichor quest are:

1) I would have made it so that you did not have a "chance" to loot an ichor each time you killed the boss, but one was guaranteed each time. Players prefer not to have to rely on luck to finish a quest. If you wanted to make the quest harder, then make it 1000 ichors needed instead of 500. But at least we would have an idea of how long it would take. The other way you could sometimes play for an hour without looting a single ichor.

2) Make it possible to trade/sell the reward item (elite weapons). Some players may want to do the quest as a way of earning money. They do the quest and then sell the item to another player for a lot of gold. Make this possible.

3) Make the stats on the elite weapons slightly better than other weapons -- there has to be an advantage to doing the quest other than just having a rare item. That item should provide some kind of advantage over other items, even if the advantage is a small one.


So to sum up, maybe offer a mythic item of some kind, make it slightly better than any other item that goes in that slot, make it a limited time quest, and make it something that would take players a long time to finish (a couple of weeks of game play at least). If it's too easy then everyone will do it and it will be nothing special. And while doing this quest, make some other item (maybe a super rare arcane item?) be a very rare drop that can be found by a select few players running the dungeon.

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I kind of like this idea... here's my ideas to add.

1. Make it only available for 1 season (expecting that seasons are generally 2-4 months). If it takes 2 weeks for a normal player to get through, that gives them the ability to do it a few times for good cash.

2. The mythic item from it should be a little better than mythics from the crates, making them extra rare (but not arcane level).

3. Super rare drop (arcane) drop should also be limited time only.

4. Repeat, with different map/quest each season. I'm ok with reusing the same basics each time, as long as there are some differences (to lower the amount of work needed to do this for developers).

5. One of the two (mythic or arcane) should be a ring/amulet.

6. These items should not be available in crates... I know that's how you make money, but give us something special that doesn't get flooded by those crates.

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Originally Posted by Energizeric

Carapace: The best quest I can think of was the ichor quest in PL. Even that could have used some changes, but here is why it was fun....

1) It was a new dungeon specifically for this quest.

2) While doing this quest, you had the chance to get a really good/rare/expensive item drop that was not available anywhere else (Black Dragon Helm & Armor).

3) It was a long grind, and only the really dedicated players would spend the time.

4) There was no requirement to do this quest, nor was the reward items (elite weapons) necessary to play the game.

5) It was a limited time quest, and then was discontinued. Players like getting items that will be discontinued -- there is an exclusiveness to this which makes it more fun and more worth their time.


The changes I would have made to the ichor quest are:

1) I would have made it so that you did not have a "chance" to loot an ichor each time you killed the boss, but one was guaranteed each time. Players prefer not to have to rely on luck to finish a quest. If you wanted to make the quest harder, then make it 1000 ichors needed instead of 500. But at least we would have an idea of how long it would take. The other way you could sometimes play for an hour without looting a single ichor.

2) Make it possible to trade/sell the reward item (elite weapons). Some players may want to do the quest as a way of earning money. They do the quest and then sell the item to another player for a lot of gold. Make this possible.

3) Make the stats on the elite weapons slightly better than other weapons -- there has to be an advantage to doing the quest other than just having a rare item. That item should provide some kind of advantage over other items, even if the advantage is a small one.


So to sum up, maybe offer a mythic item of some kind, make it slightly better than any other item that goes in that slot, make it a limited time quest, and make it something that would take players a long time to finish (a couple of weeks of game play at least). If it's too easy then everyone will do it and it will be nothing special. And while doing this quest, make some other item (maybe a super rare arcane item?) be a very rare drop that can be found by a select few players running the dungeon.

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Nice idea. Maybe a mythic hammer, mythic daggers, and a mythic staff...

I'm going to post this idea in a new thread. It'll be in the suggestions forum. Please all of you comment there if you like it. I'll give some more specifics on the post. Maybe we can put some more good ideas out there for the developers to draw upon.

Update: http://www.spacetimestudios.com/show...dow-Quest-quot

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Originally Posted by Carapace

The thought was more along the lines of making the player return to the location where the Mythic Helm was originally located in chests as a drop to tie it to the lore, but I can admit it may not be the most exciting of events :)

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I spent my time earning gold to buy mythics, I was very happy when I finally bought my set. The sad thing is, do I have to spend the same amount of time upgrading this mythics? Look, its been 2 days already, I have yet to complete the 16 pieces, I spent 2 days capping to 36 which I didnt mind but this. Oh my God, am I spending a week just to upgrade:mad::mad::mad:

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Originally Posted by IronMonkey

I spent my time earning gold to buy mythics, I was very happy when I finally bought my set. The sad thing is, do I have to spend the same amount of time upgrading this mythics? Look, its been 2 days already, I have yet to complete the 16 pieces, I spent 2 days capping to 36 which I didnt mind but this. Oh my God, am I spending a week just to upgrade:mad::mad::mad:

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You're trying to get the best armor in the entire game it should take a long time, it should not be something that you can complete in a few hours.

This is bramer - signing out

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Originally Posted by bramer

You're trying to get the best armor in the entire game it should take a long time, it should not be something that you can complete in a few hours.

This is bramer - signing out

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But to upgrade something with a 'RARE' chance? We can defeat boss 1 to 4 of Shuyal maps, thats better because of the 100% certainty that we can get it. Not something out of the blue.

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Originally Posted by IronMonkey

But to upgrade something with a 'RARE' chance? We can defeat boss 1 to 4 of Shuyal maps, thats better because of the 100% certainty that we can get it. Not something out of the blue.

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Yes, there should (in my opinion) be some sort of long, luck-based, quest item grind, like the cyber or ichor quests in PL.

This is bramer - signing out

On the plus side -

I did end up coming across Elite Bael II while farming for the shards :)

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Originally Posted by IronMonkey

I spent my time earning gold to buy mythics, I was very happy when I finally bought my set. The sad thing is, do I have to spend the same amount of time upgrading this mythics? Look, its been 2 days already, I have yet to complete the 16 pieces, I spent 2 days capping to 36 which I didnt mind but this. Oh my God, am I spending a week just to upgrade:mad::mad::mad:

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I had upgraded my mythics by the second day. I would have had it done by the first day but I decided to go to sleep. The quest is very easy and I agree with everyone's sentiment here that this should have taken longer. Although I'd rather not have a luck based system rather one where you need to perform some kind of tasks like kill a certain number of elite bosses or possibly series of daily quests which can only be completed once per day kind of like the bard quests.

Thankfully, I have completed the pieces and upgraded the helm in 3 days of searching for it.

The barrels and crates part is total crap it can weeks until you can acquire all 16 pieces. If u ask me it is just a waste of time .

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Originally Posted by Odriasiz

The barrels and crates part is total crap it can weeks until you can acquire all 16 pieces. If u ask me it is just a waste of time .

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But worth it.

Anyway, nice necro.

I personally never found any intricate quests in AL, I dabbled in Runescape a bit and in a general comparison their quests a so much more complex then AL's and that is saying much already...

Please can you tell me who are the npc i have to talk to
please

Hehehe, nice necro)))