Flags.....

I've played this game as long as anyone, and have put in as much total hours as probably anyone since this game was released. I made the Top Sorcerers leaderboard in seasons 2-5. But I was stupid and last year I didn't make an effort to reach 5k or 10k flags back when flagging was easy. It just seemed totally boring.

In season 6 I got knocked off the leaderboard even though I have every other achievement besides 5k & 10k flags. So now the only way I can return to the Top Sorcerers leaderboard is to reach 5k flags. I need 1330 more flags to reach 5k. So 2 weeks ago I decided that I would worry about nothing else between now and the end of the expansion and spend all my time flagging....

Unfortunately that hasn't turned out so well. For example, tonight I played for 3 hours and got a grand total of 1 flag. It's really hard for us sorcerers, and when you enter a CTF room, you get ganged. I'm in Karma and even still I get ganged. It's pretty much impossible to get to the flag and make it back alive. So in 2 weeks of playing at least an hour per day, I got around 20 flags total. At that pace, I'm sure the game will have been discontinued before I would reach 5k.

Is it hopeless to even bother at this point? If I'm unable to compete for the leaderboard, I'd become very bored and look for another game instead where I can still compete. I feel like I've put in so much time in this game over 2 years, it's a shame that one single area holds me back from making the leaderboard.

Since nobody really plays CTF anymore (they just use the CTF room to play a completely different kind of game), I suggest removing the flag achievements. Keep the flags leaderboards for those players who still like to flag, but there's no reason to make it part of the achievement formula used for the "Top Players" leaderboard.

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Originally Posted by Energizeric

I'm in Karma and even still I get ganged.

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I do not mean this as an insult of any kind, but one of the reasons (aside from the fact that you are a mage and people bully mages) may be getting ganged is precisely because of the fact that you are wearing the karma title. I have no personal enmity with any guild, but many players have stereotyped certain guilds, including karma as gangers and blockers.

Another thing is if you own an imbued set and a previous season lb banner, show it in the pvp room. People seem less inclined to go and be cheap to people who outgear and are more skilled than them.

Are you talking about end game if so its very difficult to flag there. I also agree the flag aps should be removed but the LB for flagging stays 1+

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Originally Posted by Kingofninjas

I do not mean this as an insult of any kind, but one of the reasons (aside from the fact that you are a mage and people bully mages) may be getting ganged is precisely because of the fact that you are wearing the karma title. I have no personal enmity with any guild, but many players have stereotyped certain guilds, including karma as gangers and blockers.

Another thing is if you own an imbued set and a previous season lb banner, show it in the pvp room. People seem less inclined to go and be cheap to people who outgear and are more skilled than them.

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I am not a "enemy" of karma EITHER, and yet I have to admit, Killing one karma brings another 3 and one blocker, and after that it is breeze-spawncamp for as long as you stay in the game. Atleast thats my experience.
(Actually, this Applies to most guilds)
If everyone would just keep it calm and reply on the random people on your team, ctf would be funnier.

I assume most other guilds hold a grudge against your guild :mad:

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Originally Posted by shinytoy

Gale, shield and heal and patience

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And Nekro

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Originally Posted by supersyan

And Nekro

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Not evryone can offord a nekro just say many just cant

Well, from my experience, most guilds have a grudge but some players dont bave the grudge againts karma. During my early gameplay years at endgaming, most karma players didnt PvP with me. I met some karma people like apocolyptika and shadiiiii, also some ringed nekro and other crazy geared people...

Some rogues started off fighting with me, and i fought too. TBH, after a few kilings and death it always stopped for some reason. Some people, they just loved fighting me xD

From my experience, most karma guild players idnt kill me at their first shots or anything. I was a neutral enigmatic player. Soon i got into positive, and in a month i woke up and played...saw all my positive guildies left...then i contacted one of the officers of positive, to my surprise, i got into karma.

And going onto the gangs of karma, for some people it may seem ridiculous they are ga ging you for no reason. But hey, even i didnt knew, i was ganged at least 4 times by karma players. I realized with the presence of magnum, or sometimes unified karma guildmates call in for players to aid them. Blocking doesnt seem right to me either...i agree about blocking. Karma doesnt gang unless you have ganged them a while ago, i dont wanna like say that i am with them. But this is the truth.

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Originally Posted by Rx8

Well, from my experience, most guilds have a grudge but some players dont bave the grudge againts karma. During my early gameplay years at endgaming, most karma players didnt PvP with me. I met some karma people like apocolyptika and shadiiiii, also some ringed nekro and other crazy geared people...

Some rogues started off fighting with me, and i fought too. TBH, after a few kilings and death it always stopped for some reason. Some people, they just loved fighting me xD

From my experience, most karma guild players idnt kill me at their first shots or anything. I was a neutral enigmatic player. Soon i got into positive, and in a month i woke up and played...saw all my positive guildies left...then i contacted one of the officers of positive, to my surprise, i got into karma.

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Karma is not full of those players people describe imo aswel.
I quited endgame pvp long ago, there were some karma players, i forgot name, were very fair and didn't much fight me. They let me do my stuffs like fighting non ringer equally geared players.
Shout out to Apocalyptika too. She always spared me and very nice person.
Zeus is very fair too. Been some in clash with zeus (in his team). He always say in team chat to let enemies regroup.

But there are some arrogant bully people too. Well which LB guild dsnt have. Mostly those weak players who got into karma and think they are some real stuff while wearing the guild title are the people who make the guild look bad. They calls and blocks when die in a fair fights.

I must say that I totally agree with you - I said this exact same thing to a friend last night.

Since the release of capture the flag, as you have said, people just use that arena to play a totally different game and in that game flags are totally irrelevant. It is impossible to capture a flag in the true sense of the game where each team would be coordinating itself to achieve the main objective of being the first to capture 5 flags and win the game.

Current ways to get flags in ctf are:

- Join or create a "flagging room" where players from each team alternate running with a flag so that 8 flags are taken and then someone ends the game. (In this situation you will not always be "allowed" to participate in flagging ).

- Enter a game and do not participate in the combat, just flag. If the people in the room are nice they will leave you to flag around the edge of the room while they fight you then leave the room after you have flagged 4 times so as not to end the game.

Both of the above are not guaranteed, and you will only be "allowed" to flag if the people on the other team decide that you aren't powerful enough to do anything about them farming you while everyone else in the room flags.

Having those achievement points still around supports an expectation that a well rounded player has;

-completed all of the PVE maps quests challenges
-achieved a high number of pve kills
-acquired items of all levels and a variety of pets
-worked their way through all levels and in game campaigns
-been part a guild and used the auction house
-worked in pvp and achieved kills;
-has been kindly deemed worthy by certain members of the community of being allowed to run backwards and forwards 10,000 times between point A and B. < < < This should not be honoured by STS as being a required part of the game.

Removing the flag achievement points, or even keeping the APs and having them grant a title but no actual points, while leaving the flag leaderboard seems like a solution which makes sense for the whole community.

This should be accompanied by adding more achievements which actually encourage healthy participation in and use of the game, rather than APs which encourage bullying and for the vast majority of players will require them to endure an extremely negative and unenjoyable game experience for a prolonged period of time.

Very unlikely, i pvp a lot so i get a glimpse of your demise but 1 flag per 3 hours?! How?

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Originally Posted by Energizeric

I've played this game as long as anyone, and have put in as much total hours as probably anyone since this game was released. I made the Top Sorcerers leaderboard in seasons 2-5. But I was stupid and last year I didn't make an effort to reach 5k or 10k flags back when flagging was easy. It just seemed totally boring.

In season 6 I got knocked off the leaderboard even though I have every other achievement besides 5k & 10k flags. So now the only way I can return to the Top Sorcerers leaderboard is to reach 5k flags. I need 1330 more flags to reach 5k. So 2 weeks ago I decided that I would worry about nothing else between now and the end of the expansion and spend all my time flagging....

Unfortunately that hasn't turned out so well. For example, tonight I played for 3 hours and got a grand total of 1 flag. It's really hard for us sorcerers, and when you enter a CTF room, you get ganged. I'm in Karma and even still I get ganged. It's pretty much impossible to get to the flag and make it back alive. So in 2 weeks of playing at least an hour per day, I got around 20 flags total. At that pace, I'm sure the game will have been discontinued before I would reach 5k.

Is it hopeless to even bother at this point? If I'm unable to compete for the leaderboard, I'd become very bored and look for another game instead where I can still compete. I feel like I've put in so much time in this game over 2 years, it's a shame that one single area holds me back from making the leaderboard.

Since nobody really plays CTF anymore (they just use the CTF room to play a completely different kind of game), I suggest removing the flag achievements. Keep the flags leaderboards for those players who still like to flag, but there's no reason to make it part of the achievement formula used for the "Top Players" leaderboard.

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The fox wanted to eat the grapes but it couldn't reach them so it said they were sour...

This has been suggested many times, but STS doesn't listen. CTF is capture the flag, not letting everyone get achievements. People always rage when I kill a flagger, but there is no rule saying I cant.

flagging is not that hard....u just have to wait for your turn....i dont know for mages but my warrior got flags nice....and i was not even from a big guild....i was the only active member of my guild

I respect the guy who created this thread so much because he ACTUALLY does it the right way. My suggestion is to PLAY ctf which means get a team and kill enemy players instead of just running for the flag (I don't know how you do it) you know how it's supposed to be played. And also if you get ganged gang back as you said your in karma get guild mates to help you. Instead of doing it what you have probably learned witch is do it fair, free flag, fair fights, etc, do it my way which is funner and people who are just geared will suck at it. Doing it fair means best geared wins but my way requires strategy which is something I truly love about a game which makes it fun.

what is your way of playing?

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Originally Posted by epicrrr

Very unlikely, i pvp a lot so i get a glimpse of your demise but 1 flag per 3 hours?! How?

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Wel if i want to flag in pvp a very nice rouges comes bam aimed and i can start over and iver and over and i geus he has the same.

As many of you have probably seen me in PvP, I tend to not call my guild for help unless I'm getting ganged. But even then, the game turns into a clash and nobody can flag. I'd either like to join a game where players work together to flag, or else be able to flag while the clash is going on (I'd prefer the first option). But neither of these happen anymore, so it is a dead end.

STS either needs to change the incentives so that teams want to win the game and reach 5 flags, or else they need to eliminate these achievements. How is it that the max flagging achievement is the same number required as the max PvP kills achievement (also 10k)?? In a typical CTF game I've seen players get 50+ kills. If they are going to have 5k and 10k flag achievements, then they should have PvP kills achievements up to 100k, and PvE kills achievements up to 1m. If they did that, then at least I would have other achievements to work on. But I'm at the point where the only one left to do is pretty much impossible for me, so I get bored. Good thing Call of Champions is coming soon... I suspect if nothing changes I will be hoping over to that game.

I have nothing helpful to add. But i really want to say ive always wondered why people dont use ctf room to actually play ctf.. that was beyond fun in pl. It also adds that different edge.

I get soloed by the players pets... not even ganged

Do like others, Don't level to 46 in expansion. Stay and flag with the handful that also stay for flags.

I don't see how 5k / 10K flags makes one a top player. They may be eligible for the "most immune to boredom" or "biggest time waster ever" awards, but let's be honest - carrying a flag across a room that many times doesn't take skill, it just takes a hellofa lot of time.

The majority of players who got these ap, got them before the time-to-flag was increased exponentially by the "one flag at a time" insanity, and very very few of those people actually did it as intended, fighting for it. Most free flagged it. So how does this make you a good player. "In before flag change", "Free Flagging", "Other nefarious flagging methods" which made it easy for those who did it early, are no longer options for those who didn't. This means players who are new have virtually no way to get on the top player board, at least for rogue, and soon for other classes.

Personally, I got my top player banner in season 4, and was lucky that it was a pretty colour (yes, I'm vain) so I don't care about it for myself - especially since this was before the free flagger infestation of the boards (I have no respect for that kind of thing, personally). I do feel that people who are newer players should have an equal chance at all leaderboards, which is why I support the implementation of seasonal leaderboards. That way at least everyone would start at the same place each season and then it really would be whoever worked hardest THAT season, not 5 seasons earlier to secure their spot, like on the PvE kill boards, for example.

I think implementing seasonal Leaderboards is a great idea but also they should keep the all time leaderboards. I also think that sts shouldnt change anything with flags making it easier or harder it should stay the same say but like energizeric said they should remove the aps but keep the lb

Seasonal leaderboard would work for things like PVE kills, PVP kills, Flags, etc but I don't see how it would work for the top players and the top players of each class - since this is calculated by achievement points and a seasonal leaderboard would be whoever earned the most APs in that particular season: new players can earn up to 17k(ish) APs in their starting season while older players will earn maybe 1k.

That aside I do agree: If CTF was played as intended, with teams working together to be first to bring home all the flags and thus winning the game, then this AP would make sense because it would demonstrate a huge amount of skill in that area of the game. As it stands it really doesn't.

That's not to say that if the flag APs were removed or reduced to just granting a title and 0 AP, they shouldn't be replaced with some other AP which would be long a difficult to work for. Energi is saying that he wants to have something which it feels productive to work towards, not that he want all the APs he doesn't have to be removed so he can leap onto lb and then sit doing nothing in the game - that would leave him in the exact same position he is in now anyway.

There is another thread with some awesome suggestions for long term PVE Aps which could be added, and even an AP for 10 or 100 Trulle kills would hold a lot more value that any of the flag APs at this stage in the game.

ill teach you.
make l1 warrior
enter ctf map
download bot maker
program bot
sit and act like your mlg as you bot your way to the top like everyone else on the leaderboard

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Originally Posted by Sodaisgood

I have nothing helpful to add. But i really want to say ive always wondered why people dont use ctf room to actually play ctf.. that was beyond fun in pl. It also adds that different edge.

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I too dont have a clue, maybe its becaues of the games weve been exposed to before AL. I certainly enjoy pure clash head-on but maybe with the proper initiative people might start fighting for the score. I'd like to try it but the low-level bracket pvp scene does not care about who wins with flag score, we mostly like to inflict the most kill count after each clash.

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Originally Posted by Serancha

I don't see how 5k / 10K flags makes one a top player. They may be eligible for the "most immune to boredom" or "biggest time waster ever" awards, but let's be honest - carrying a flag across a room that many times doesn't take skill, it just takes a hellofa lot of time.

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Kinda wrong description of "most immune to boredom" or biggest time waster ever" take note that playing this game requires hand movement, so this "free flagging" thing can be the same as you running elite - which can be the same as to what youve mentioned above.

Take note that most bracket does not tolerate free flagging - as i target them when i see our flagging being taken but being in a establish guild gives you instances where you can flag until enemy guild comes.

lol,i lack of flag 5k,10k aps for 4seasons.....otherwise my pve kills can make me top rogue rank 1....
i tried flag when it was easy....and gave up... there's no life if you r going for that aps..

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Originally Posted by Energizeric

I've played this game as long as anyone, and have put in as much total hours as probably anyone since this game was released. I made the Top Sorcerers leaderboard in seasons 2-5. But I was stupid and last year I didn't make an effort to reach 5k or 10k flags back when flagging was easy. It just seemed totally boring.

In season 6 I got knocked off the leaderboard even though I have every other achievement besides 5k & 10k flags. So now the only way I can return to the Top Sorcerers leaderboard is to reach 5k flags. I need 1330 more flags to reach 5k. So 2 weeks ago I decided that I would worry about nothing else between now and the end of the expansion and spend all my time flagging....

Unfortunately that hasn't turned out so well. For example, tonight I played for 3 hours and got a grand total of 1 flag. It's really hard for us sorcerers, and when you enter a CTF room, you get ganged. I'm in Karma and even still I get ganged. It's pretty much impossible to get to the flag and make it back alive. So in 2 weeks of playing at least an hour per day, I got around 20 flags total. At that pace, I'm sure the game will have been discontinued before I would reach 5k.

Is it hopeless to even bother at this point? If I'm unable to compete for the leaderboard, I'd become very bored and look for another game instead where I can still compete. I feel like I've put in so much time in this game over 2 years, it's a shame that one single area holds me back from making the leaderboard.

Since nobody really plays CTF anymore (they just use the CTF room to play a completely different kind of game), I suggest removing the flag achievements. Keep the flags leaderboards for those players who still like to flag, but there's no reason to make it part of the achievement formula used for the "Top Players" leaderboard.

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Impossible means that you can not obtain something no matter how much effort you put into getting it. Difficult means you will probably have to flag 2 hours each day for 60 days like everyone else does (and did) to get the flag ap necessary to be classified as "Top", just like the 25 mages did before Energizeric to get their top mage spots on the LB.
If you can't work as hard as these 25 players did then maybe you are not worthy of being a "Top mage" or taking any of their spots afterall.

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Originally Posted by Ladysophie

Impossible means that you can not obtain something no matter how much effort you put into getting it. Difficult means you will probably have to flag 2 hours each day for 60 days like everyone else does (and did) to get the flag ap necessary to be classified as "Top", just like the 25 mages did before Energizeric to get their top mage spots on the LB.
If you can't work as hard as these 25 players did then maybe you are not worthy of being a "Top mage" or taking any of their spots afterall.

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Agreed. Im pretty sure those on TOP PLAYER category worked their as*es off harder than most.

So you're in karma and can't happen to free flag? This is the most contradictive statement I've heard. Just call karma to make the other team leave and then call more to block those spots so you can free flag. I mean, that is what karma does, right? Ganging and spot blocking to prevent fair fights and let members free flag? Gee, step up your game. If you can't beat em, just call karma. Simple as that. Surely all the "pros" will be happy to spot block for you while you flag :)

Maybe people are ganging you because they know your name. Just change it to a random and save it on an alt and try to play more anonymously. And say 'flagging' when you go in and generally people will leave you alone.

Why would you want to free flag though. Fight for your APs. Think of it this way - you want flags, they want kills. Everybody's selfish.

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Originally Posted by Alhuntrazeck

Why would you want to free flag though. Fight for your APs. Think of it this way - you want flags, they want kills. Everybody's selfish.

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Flag's hurt you too. So you're essentially fighting 2 people if another guy attacks. 2vs1 Not Cool Bro!

This is a very interesting conversation and one that does bring up some interesting thoughts about AL and how PvP (CTF in particular) is played. At this time we don't have any plans to make changes to the existing AP's, but I will definitely keep this in mind to discuss with the team in the future as a bigger part of the state of AL PvP. Thanks all.

I'm going to close this one up now. :)