Addressing Complaints about Warriors + Suggestions for Skill System

I have seen an increased amount of threads lately complaining about warriors being 1-shot, or 2-shot KO by rogues. I have a few things to say about such, even though my opinion may not be valued by many, please hear me out.

Issue 1. To the warriors who are upset about being 1-shot in pvp by maxed out rogues - Do not say anything unless your gear is equal strength to their's, because of course you can't beat someone with max stats while you have weak-medicore stats.

Issue 2. Why warriors aren't very viable in elites - The elites have not been scaled up yet, and rogues and mages have the damage, crowd control, and with better stats with the 46 gear, have more armor and hp than before. Your time is coming tanks, just be patient. They will need you sooner rather than later I believe.
-Added note- Your job as a tank is to hold aggro, not do massive damage. I know most of you know this, just clarifying.:)

Those are the 2 main issues I have seen, and if anymore come to my attention, I will add them. Now I have some suggestions to fix some of the problems, and I enjoy constructive criticism. Thank you.

Suggestion 1. At level 41, I think it would be beneficial to add more components to all classes skills. I have not put much thought into other classes skill upgrades, (rogue and sorcerer), but I will add them as I brainstorm. Anyway, the added components I previously mentioned are added passives to active skills. When you become level 41, you get a new option in every skill with 2 added passives you can choose from. Only one passive can be added, for balancing reasons, and the maximum amount of skill points able to be dedicated to this passive will be 3 (0/3, 1/3, 2/3, 3/3). Let me explain, and I will give you one of my ideas as an example.

Horn of Renew - Passive option 1 - The cooldown of this skill is reduced by 2 seconds (1/3 = 13 second cd, 2/3 = 11 second cd, 3/3 = 9 second cd)
- Passive option 2 - In addition to the Increased Duration skill upgrade, this skill's effects will continue for an additional 1 second
(1/3 = 1 sec added to heal time, .5 sec added to shield, 2/3 = 2 sec added to heal time, 1 sec added to shield,
3/3 = 3 sec added to heal time, 1.5 sec added to shield)
-Note- Only one passive can be skilled up for balancing reasons. So if you have 1 point into passive option 2, you cannot add any skill points to passive option 1, and vise versa.

This is only an idea, and everyone is free to express their own, viable ideas below. I also have an idea for the passives that can be added to vengeful blood.

Vengeful Blood - Passive option 1 - In addition to the skill upgrade Adrenaline Rush, upon casting this skill you will gain 5 extra strength (1/3 = 30 str not charged, 55 str charged. 2/3 35 str not charged, 60 str charged. 3/3 40 str not charged, 65 str charged).
Maybe jugg passive instead - Passive option 2 - Upon casting this skill, you will gain a decaying armor buff of 5% armor that decays over 5 seconds at a
constant rate (1% per second). (1/3 = 5% armor buff, decays over 5 sec. 2/3 = 10% armor buff, decays over
10 sec. 3/3 = 15% armor buff, decays over 15 sec).


I know some of you will wonder why I made 41 the level for these passives to be unlocked, and that is because some twinks will focus on one skill, and become onesided, and there is no fun in that. Also new players may not really understand what they are doing and may add skill points into things that don't need it, so I just want to avoid confusion.

I will edit this as I brainstorm, but I am open to any ideas you have. Please constructive criticism only.

Thank you for reading! :excitement:

I really don't see wars becoming useful in the new elites. The maps have been scaled up, it seems. I think wars really need to get some useful debuffs added to their skills (or make their new weapon have an awesome debuff proc).

That said, I've heard that max wars and mages are superior to max rogues in PvP (at least in clashes).

About the one/two shotting tanks. This only happens if a maxed rogue attacks a not maxed tank.However, it is possible for a maxed rogue to 1-2 combo a maxed tank. This is pure luck and it depends on if you land a bow stun, if nekro terrifies the warrior after the bow stun and if you land a crit on every single hit.

This topic is being exaggerated and in pvp rogues are the weakest class in terms of survivability. Mages have the potential to rotate 2 shields. Warriors have a skill which provides immunity for 3 seconds and jugg which lowers incoming damage by 40%. Both Jugg and Arcane shield offer stun, root, snare, bleed immunity.

Rogues may have razor shield but it doesn't offer any damage reduction. We solely rely on nekro but once the shield drops we are vunerable, especially in clashes with a mage or two on the opposite side.

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Originally Posted by avikk

Here is some constructive criticism:

1) endgame elites are all about the DPS classes. You should see how a few quite well known and "pro" warriors have openly stated that one should invest in rogue items/pets.

2) damage dealt to mobs also means aggro, not saying that warriors should deal damage but there should be window gap where instead of images getting pummeled unless their shield in on the warrior needs to use his heal to make the whole party invulnerable for two seconds. By need I mean no warrior heal at that window=warrior and a few party members dead. Tbh even this isn't a viable solution considering how endgame parties don't mind using a couple of ankhs per run.

#ALCaters2Rogues

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I see your point about damage aggro, but you only addressed the third paragraph in my earlier post. What do you think about the skill idea? That's what I really wanna find out.

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Originally Posted by Edward Coug

I really don't see wars becoming useful in the new elites. The maps have been scaled up, it seems. I think wars really need to get some useful debuffs added to their skills (or make their new weapon have an awesome debuff proc).

That said, I've heard that max wars and mages are superior to max rogues in PvP (at least in clashes).

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Firstly, Warriors and Sorcerers have been better at clashing for a long time, on average. Now a good rogue who knows what's up, will pick apart the enemy damage dealers. Secondly, I like the debuff idea, but do you have any specific ideas for debuffs? Debuffs vary widely.

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Originally Posted by Anyona

About the one/two shotting tanks. This only happens if a maxed rogue attacks a not maxed tank.However, it is possible for a maxed rogue to 1-2 combo a maxed tank. This is pure luck and it depends on if you land a bow stun, if nekro terrifies the warrior after the bow stun and if you land a crit on every single hit.

This topic is being exaggerated and in pvp rogues are the weakest class in terms of survivability. Mages have the potential to rotate 2 shields. Warriors have a skill which provides immunity for 3 seconds and jugg which lowers incoming damage by 40%. Both Jugg and Arcane shield offer stun, root, snare, bleed immunity.

Rogues may have arcane shield but it doesn't offer any damage reduction. We solely rely on nekro but once the shield drops we are vunerable, especially in clashes with a mage or two on the opposite side.

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I am currently working on ideas for rogue skill passives, but after so many seasons, it seems the classes are close to being balanced if you think about it. How many years have rogues completely dominated endgame pvp? All I really want is for rogues to be strong and balanced, while the character whose role is to have the most armor and hp not to get 2-shot KO. That does not seem balanced to me.

Sorry for double post!

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Originally Posted by Saribeau

Firstly, Warriors and Sorcerers have always been better at clashing, on average. Now a good rogue who knows what's up, will pick apart the enemy damage dealers. Secondly, I like the debuff idea, but do you have any specific ideas for debuffs? Debuffs vary widely.

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Before the arcane shield was buffed, mages were useless in clashes apart from using curse and healing rogues for mana. Now you see a team of 2 warriors and 3 mages successfully killing the opposite team which consists of all 3 classes, 2 warriors, 1 mage, 2 rogues.

Mages also have an immunity to curse whilst their shield is up. A team with 3 mages will run curse if the opposite team consists of a rogue as rogues have no built-in immunity to curse. This limits a rogue to 2 attack skills which is less affective.

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Originally Posted by Saribeau

I am currently working on ideas for rogue skill passives, but after so many seasons, it seems the classes are close to being balanced if you think about it. How many years have rogues completely dominated endgame pvp? All I really want is for rogues to be strong and balanced, while the character whose role is to have the most armor and hp not to get 2-shot KO. That does not seem balanced to me.

Sorry for double post!

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I understand your point. But nerfing rogues in any way will make them terrible in pvp as they don't have much survivability. Rogues need the high damage because without it they'd be nothing.

Noted, and edited.

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Originally Posted by Saribeau

I see your point about damage aggro, but you only addressed the third paragraph in my earlier post. What do you think about the skill idea? That's what I really wanna find out.



Firstly, Warriors and Sorcerers have been better at clashing for a long time, on average. Now a good rogue who knows what's up, will pick apart the enemy damage dealers. Secondly, I like the debuff idea, but do you have any specific ideas for debuffs? Debuffs vary widely.

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Armor debuffs are great. The old arcane maul has an amazing 50% armor reduction. And any buffs that increase party damage would be a welcome addition.

When a maxed rogue 2 comboes a maxed tank (one combo is not possible), it is completely the tanks fault for not charging either jugg or horn, and they deserve the death IMO.

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Originally Posted by Anyona:2239045

About the one/two shotting tanks. This only happens if a maxed rogue attacks a not maxed tank.However, it is possible for a maxed rogue to 1-2 combo a maxed tank. This is pure luck and it depends on if you land a bow stun, if nekro terrifies the warrior after the bow stun and if you land a crit on every single hit.

This topic is being exaggerated and in pvp rogues are the weakest class in terms of survivability. Mages have the potential to rotate 2 shields. Warriors have a skill which provides immunity for 3 seconds and jugg which lowers incoming damage by 40%. Both Jugg and Arcane shield offer stun, root, snare, bleed immunity.

Rogues may have razor shield but it doesn't offer any damage reduction. We solely rely on nekro but once the shield drops we are vunerable, especially in clashes with a mage or two on the opposite side.

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My tank is maxed. Previously, I would be able to horn, jugg, wait till jug is nearly ending then horn again. That ensures max survival time. In many cases now, I am unable to horn the 2nd time because I die while in jugg mode. Thats the issue. All it takes is a 2.1k crit for a 8.5k warrior in jugg and if the warrior is not at 50% hp from the self healing.

My opinion is that with introduction of new gear and new caps, some things dont always scale right. This is one of those scenarios. Perhaps the bow dmg was scaled too high or the hp and armor was not scaled high enough on warriors. Look at the new crate gun vs the mythic gun on mages. Not comparable. Rogue bow vs mythic bow. New legendary crate bow is much better. Rogues are quickly killing same geared mages in many cases (if you want to consider the triangle). Im leaning towards the new bow was the issue but im generally against nerfs. I would possibly suggest making warriors secondary finally giving 5hp instead of 3hp for dex. All the other classes the secondary grants 5hp. Id hate to request a buff to war more than that because it would make the struggle for mage vs war even worse. Maybe an adjustment to jugg so it self heals at 30 or 35% to trigger. Or the damage reduction to 35%. Remember that its a problem right now for warriors an may even get worse when newer gear comes.

In regards to skill changes I would like to see for warrior.

Axe throw pulls all bosses.

Windmill pulls like traps on charge (since taunt in this game isnt as good. PvE only)

Rally cry adds stun immunity for team

Increase cs range and 25% armor reduction instead of push back upgrade.

Those are just a few off the top of my head.

Tank tauntskills are a joke because sts isn't capable of upgrading tauntskills since more then 2 seasons.

Therefore easier option for pve tanks to increase their damage/crit and Dodge enormously to hold aggro vs high crit damage/dots of rogues/mages because taunts are easily overwritten. >>>Pve perspective<<<

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Originally Posted by Ravager

My opinion is that with introduction of new gear and new caps, some things dont always scale right. This is one of those scenarios. Perhaps the bow dmg was scaled too high or the hp and armor was not scaled high enough on warriors. Look at the new crate gun vs the mythic gun on mages. Not comparable. Rogue bow vs mythic bow. New legendary crate bow is much better. Rogues are quickly killing same geared mages in many cases (if you want to consider the triangle). Im leaning towards the new bow was the issue but im generally against nerfs.

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Also, the 43 mythics for rogues actaully are comparable if not better than imbued wheras for mages they aren't even better than the crate legendaries...

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Originally Posted by Caabatric

Also, the 43 mythics for rogues actaully are comparable if not better than imbued wheras for mages they aren't even better than the crate legendaries...

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Yep, this is pretty baffling.

I have a warrior endgame, the party (3 rogs)im in keeps implying that im "slowing" them down lol and were all lvl 42 same gears full mythic. So yeah i feel for warriors out there, you have my respect! :) *casts horn of renew, and my work here is done*

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Originally Posted by Ravager

My tank is maxed. Previously, I would be able to horn, jugg, wait till jug is nearly ending then horn again. That ensures max survival time. In many cases now, I am unable to horn the 2nd time because I die while in jugg mode. Thats the issue. All it takes is a 2.1k crit for a 8.5k warrior in jugg and if the warrior is not at 50% hp from the self healing.

My opinion is that with introduction of new gear and new caps, some things dont always scale right. This is one of those scenarios. Perhaps the bow dmg was scaled too high or the hp and armor was not scaled high enough on warriors. Look at the new crate gun vs the mythic gun on mages. Not comparable. Rogue bow vs mythic bow. New legendary crate bow is much better. Rogues are quickly killing same geared mages in many cases (if you want to consider the triangle). Im leaning towards the new bow was the issue but im generally against nerfs. I would possibly suggest making warriors secondary finally giving 5hp instead of 3hp for dex. All the other classes the secondary grants 5hp. Id hate to request a buff to war more than that because it would make the struggle for mage vs war even worse. Maybe an adjustment to jugg so it self heals at 30 or 35% to trigger. Or the damage reduction to 35%. Remember that its a problem right now for warriors an may even get worse when newer gear comes.

In regards to skill changes I would like to see for warrior.

Axe throw pulls all bosses.

Windmill pulls like traps on charge (since taunt in this game isnt as good. PvE only)

Rally cry adds stun immunity for team

Increase cs range and 25% armor reduction instead of push back upgrade.

Those are just a few off the top of my head.

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25% armor reduction on cs would make tanks far to strong in PvP. The axe buff has clearly been pretty much useless everywhere but PvP, so any much changes would have to go through extensive testing or be implemented solely in PvE.

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Originally Posted by Saribeau

I have seen an increased amount of threads lately complaining about warriors being 1-shot, or 2-shot KO by rogues. I have a few things to say about such, even though my opinion may not be valued by many, please hear me out.

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Wanted to point out that only one thread was made C=

Your idea while strong can very easily provide imbalance for the classes if passives are made wrong.... not to mention sts have confirmed not changing skill system anytime soon....
I still believe that rav's suggestion about nodes is the best way to fix the class balance...

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Originally Posted by Kingofninjas

25% armor reduction on cs would make tanks far to strong in PvP. The axe buff has clearly been pretty much useless everywhere but PvP, so any much changes would have to go through extensive testing or be implemented solely in PvE.

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Possibly. Maybe one step at a time for cs. Just increase its range.

Horn of renew and vengeful blood were pretty good in the old time. But sts nurfed those two skills due to complaints from a small group of rogues and mages.

sts can't do any thing about class balance, especially when most mod are playing rogues and dev play elite maps in God mode. They really need recruit some pro gamers to test the product, then we can talk about class balance.

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Originally Posted by csyui

Horn of renew and vengeful blood were pretty good in the old time. But sts nurfed those two skills due to complaints from a small group of rogues and mages.

sts can't do any thing about class balance, especially when most mod are playing rogues and dev play elite maps in God mode. They really need recruit some pro gamers to test the product, then we can talk about class balance.

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How did the skills work originally? I've only been playing about 6 months.

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Originally Posted by Ravager

Possibly. Maybe one step at a time for cs. Just increase its range.

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I definitely agree with that. Half the time it just misses unless you are standing on the target. Maybe make it auto aim to the closest enemy? I have not tanked extensively and do not know how that would change game play for tanks. A tanks point of view would be appreciated.

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Originally Posted by Edward Coug

How did the skills work originally? I've only been playing about 6 months.

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Horn's 2s shield used to be stackable. Imagine that in PvP. Now imagine full warrior teams.



Warriors are called tanks, but they are turret-less. A more suitable term would be 'meat-shield.' I always imagine a warrior being about to dish out massive amounts of damage in bursts. Not consistently like a rogue, but enough to be formidable.

Warriors are becoming obsolete because the other classes are gaining in survivability, the one important trait that previously distinguished a war. Rogues and mages have competitive armor/HP values not to mention the rogue's crazy dodge percentages. Maybe if elites were scaled, then warriors might be necessary.

last year when They promised a skill revamp, it was assumed that it would also bring balance to the classes. Nobody was happy then with the direction the game was heading (Rogue Legends) but they managed to appease us with the promise of proper skills that would make sense at the new level cap.

Fast forward to today. They reneged on their promise saying the changes necessary were too vast, and instead elected to keep the status quo and carry on. The ramifications are pretty evident. ANY changes they would make would be great, good or bad, but at least it would show they care enough to update the game and keep it viable.

Until then, my tank gets trotted out for some dailies, then gets put back in his rocking chair to yell at all the young whipper snapper rogues cruising by killing everything with a couple shots (Pve, PvP), being able to do proper crowd control with like a mage with traps and frost bow, casting a much superior shield with nekro than a warrior could ever dream of casting, and generally kicking butt in every category.

For those that say warriors are an integral part of the game, they really aren't. Elites wont change much either. Once the end gamers get geared up, they shed their warrior buddies and proceed as they usually do to run quick times and still enjoy the game.

Until then, If you are a warrior, get used to not running alot or pugging and hoping for the best, or make a rogue (skip the mage, he's like a bastard child of the rogue) and see all the friends you'll suddenly make, and all the parties that you'll get invited too!

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Originally Posted by Edward Coug:2239310

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Originally Posted by csyui

Horn of renew and vengeful blood were pretty good in the old time. But sts nurfed those two skills due to complaints from a small group of rogues and mages.

sts can't do any thing about class balance, especially when most mod are playing rogues and dev play elite maps in God mode. They really need recruit some pro gamers to test the product, then we can talk about class balance.

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How did the skills work originally? I've only been playing about 6 months.

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Horn of renew would apply the invulnerability globe regardless if another teammate warrior already recently applied invulnerability globe. Warriors could constantly reglobe each other.

Instead of vb applying to teammates and user and requiring being hit to refill small mana and hp, it used to recharge large chunks of mana only without being hit and to the user only.

I hope STS will listen tho... it will take ages for them to adjust or add something up.

Rogue legends