specfic question about bears and pvp

i am getting my butt kicked in pvp - my win to loss is 1/4 - issues seams to be i dont create enough damage to kill with combos (rage, becon, crushing blow, stomp, sms - starting off with buffs - then folowing up with two other slashes and crushing blow as it replenishes it self) then im killed - lol

i know i am hitting the player with all the damage i can

equip is - royal helm, royal armor, fury shield, fury sword or fortified sword, ring is 2 hit and 7 armor

any feed back will be helpful

if we are ffa - then seams tanking and combo above is a great move for the team but doesnt give me the kill - bird or mage finishes them off sooooo easily

str is min and dex is maxed out... i can ad my actual numbers if it helps



btw i have read severl opinion's on "how to.." that has gotten me to this point so far

bump

No need to bump, will try and give an opinion when I get home. Too long to type on mobile :p

You can wait for Elly's killer guide, or I'll just give you a quick description to get kills:

-Try a rooters sword(for the extra hit percent)
-Practice tree pinning, when you beckon and stomp into a tree or wall so they can't move. It's easier to follow up with slashes then
-If you really have to, don't be a sport, beckon/stomp at the last moment, to get the kill
-Try to go in maps like tiny tombs, or any close quarters place

BTW, if my teammates seem to hate me, I'll start kill-stealing like no tomorrow. A bear going 6-1, while the birds go 2-5 and 2-2 really p/o's them.

@Otu

Very funny :p

@OP

More than your stats, telling us your skills would help a lot. I have a slight idea to why you don't seem to be doing damage, but I'm not entirely sure.

Your gear is very very tank oriented, I'm pretty sure you have good dodge and HS with that setup (Fury sword). Any fortified piece isn't useful unless you plan on using an entire set, so I'd liquidate that Fortified Sword.

Consequently, that set is tank oriented only. It doesn't have any damaging stats, no Hit %, no Crit % or damage (assuming you don't use the Fort Sword). I'm guessing your Hit is at 90-92% with that ring?

If I may, you might consider this set:

Royal Helm
Rooter's Sword
Royal Plate
Cleaner/Bellow Shield (Armour vs A bit more crit/dodge/damage)

I've known that set to work very well in PvP, a bit of both defense and offense. Decent dodge and armour, with a very good Hit % and decent Crit %.

In terms of general play style, what target are you exactly having trouble with? In my opinion, every class you face (pure dex bird, hybrid bird, pure int mage, hybrid mage, etc) requires a different tactic. Not one tactic or combo works on all the classes all the time, you need to switch it up a little.

Let us know :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Otukura

You can wait for Elly's killer guide, or I'll just give you a quick description to get kills:

-Try a rooters sword(for the extra hit percent)
-Practice tree pinning, when you beckon and stomp into a tree or wall so they can't move. It's easier to follow up with slashes then
-If you really have to, don't be a sport, beckon/stomp at the last moment, to get the kill
-Try to go in maps like tiny tombs, or any close quarters place

BTW, if my teammates seem to hate me, I'll start kill-stealing like no tomorrow. A bear going 6-1, while the birds go 2-5 and 2-2 really p/o's them.

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actually the teamates i play with must love me i am a total tank for them... i give kills to them like crazy!!!

great info - i am learning the kill steal thing with out feeling guilty at all!!! lol

and i need to do that pull into a tree or a wall - have to the slashes are not counting cuz im blasting them across the room

very important advise. it is well taken

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ellyidol

@Otu

Very funny :p

@OP

More than your stats, telling us your skills would help a lot. I have a slight idea to why you don't seem to be doing damage, but I'm not entirely sure.

Your gear is very very tank oriented, I'm pretty sure you have good dodge and HS with that setup (Fury sword). Any fortified piece isn't useful unless you plan on using an entire set, so I'd liquidate that Fortified Sword.

Consequently, that set is tank oriented only. It doesn't have any damaging stats, no Hit %, no Crit % or damage (assuming you don't use the Fort Sword). I'm guessing your Hit is at 90-92% with that ring?

If I may, you might consider this set:

Royal Helm
Rooter's Sword
Royal Plate
Cleaner/Bellow Shield (Armour vs A bit more crit/dodge/damage)

I've known that set to work very well in PvP, a bit of both defense and offense. Decent dodge and armour, with a very good Hit % and decent Crit %.

In terms of general play style, what target are you exactly having trouble with? In my opinion, every class you face (pure dex bird, hybrid bird, pure int mage, hybrid mage, etc) requires a different tactic. Not one tactic or combo works on all the classes all the time, you need to switch it up a little.

Let us know :)

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lol yep 92 hit... love your advise you always are right on


str 181
dex 155
hit 92
crit 11
dodge 35
health 688
regen 33
mana 400
regen 12
damage 144-151
dps - 148
armor 173

skills -
vs - 3
cs - 1
iron - 6
stomp - 6
sms - 6
scream - 6
rage - 6
crushing - 6
evade - 6
taunt - 3
becon - 6

ok - i switched to rooters helm and rooters sword to get more hit and crit

hit went up to 102
crit went up to 29
dodge went down to 21
damage went up to 166 - 173
dps went to 170
armor went down to 143

so when i played with the roooters stuff - wow what a diff i went 15 kills and 16 deaths ... best ever for me

ok, so you said to switch to bellows or cleaners shield? i have both looks like the crit goes up nicely with the bellows...

what does crit actually do?

[/QUOTE]
In terms of general play style, what target are you exactly having trouble with? In my opinion, every class you face (pure dex bird, hybrid bird, pure int mage, hybrid mage, etc) requires a different tactic. Not one tactic or combo works on all the classes all the time, you need to switch it up a little.

Let us know :)[/QUOTE]

BIRDS!! lol not really sure what they are i guess i will start getting as much info about that as i can...

how do you handle a dex bird diff then a dex/str

and i think the pure mage are the ones that i have trouble with as well... i would love suggestions here as well...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mejslll

what does crit actually do?

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When a spell (or auto-attack) 'crits', it does way more damage (about 2x if I understood correctly). Crit stands for critical hit. So, the higher your crit, the more critical hits you will perform :)

how bout running rooters helm, rooters gemstone sword, royal armor, and bellows shield that would give me

hit 104
crit 35
dodge 21
the other change are very small dps drops by 2, armor drops by 16

or what about running all rooters or bellows?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JaytB

When a spell (or auto-attack) 'crits', it does way more damage (about 2x if I understood correctly). Crit stands for critical hit. So, the higher your crit, the more critical hits you will perform :)

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thank you !!

bump

I personally wouldn't go 2 parts rooters, the dodge/armor/h/s loss really gets me. The sword has always been good enough, it's the perfect balance, IMO.

What sorta goes through my head:

Beckon as soon as they're in range!! Did it hit?
--Yes(a): Good! Two things here. I'd try to CB them if they've come in range, then try to stomp them into a solid object. Did they hit it?
----Yes(b): Chhhaaarrrgggeee them. Keep them stunned and debuffed with the rest of your spells. Are you too far to catch them before the stun from stomp wears off?
------Yes(g): Hell Scream if you get in range, it's 8 meters, as your slashes are only four. Assuming that ministun hits, that should keep them still until
------No, I'm nice and close(h): Good. Keep them stunned with your slashes, putting your debuffs between them. Just don't let them move!!!
----No(c): Go to (f)
--No(d): Back out if you can. Are you frozen or rooted?
----Yes(e): Use your stomp, which you hopefully have ready. It will unfreeze you and let you move about. Run back until
----No(f): Just run back, wait for your cooldown on beckon to finish, the whole time spamming taunt to keep your dodge up. Go to (a).

Jeez, that's messy. I hope you can read it, thinking the only reason I can is because I made it.

I agree with Otu, 2 Rooter is unnecessary. One Rooters piece is perfect because;

1. 4 M/S is almost perfect for a bear, you'd still run out of mana if you spam all your skills nonstop, but that almost never happens.

2. The Hit % it adds should be enough to have very good Hit % if you have dual spec stats.

3. The added Crit % is really a big bonus.

After 1 Rooter, my guess is you'd probably have about 95%+ Hit, you should focus more on Crit % if you want damage, which perfectly calls for Bellow's, Crit % Dodge % and Damage.

Your original set, your tank set, is actually really good if you look to tank. 35 base dodge and 173 armour is awesome for tanking, not to mention you haven't even maxed out Taunt (biggest dodge buff).

I'd keep that set to purely tank, you can kill too, but not as often. I personally like the Royal Helm, Rooter's Sword, Royal Plate, Cleaner's Shield as an FFA set. Good balance between dodge, armour, Hit and Crit %. Dueling sets can be different, very different.

For your skills, I'd choose 2 slashes only, personal preference is SMS and VS. Two shortest cooldowns and two highest damage per skill point. I would also max Taunt, it actually buffs dodge more than Evade does, and it's 0 mana cost.

Dex birds aren't the only problem, any ranged class is. Assuming you're melee :) While it's difficult to tell what exactly to do versus a bird/mage, there are ideal things that you should do, which Otu has mentioned.

Personal combo for a bird:

Beckon - CB - SMS - Stomp - (at this point it depends. If you get lucky crits within those 4 skills, the bird could be dead or could be low on health. If the bird is still alive, even before you Stomp, I would move towards the direction that Stomp would bring the bird. That way, right after you Stomp, cast HS. If you get it right, HS should stop the pushback of Stomp from pushing too far, allowing you to stay on top of the bird even after the combo.)

For a mage:

Beckon - HS - CB - Stomp. An int mage with shield on is rarely taken down in one combo. I use HS and CB before combo to fully debuff them as soon as they can cast spells again. You can stay out of range until your combo is ready again, then you can go Beckon - CB - SMS - Stomp. By that time, the mage's shield should be down which allows you to possibly one combo them.

I always remember, if I plan to go for a quick kill, CB is your bestfriend. -30% dodge at level 6 works really well in making sure that they don't get to dodge any of your skills. SMS has good damage and has a -10 armour debuff.

These combos are just my ideal combos, they don't always work because you have to factor in the statistics for all or some of your spells connecting, if they crit or not, and the PvP skill of your target. IMO, a bear is the hardest to PvP with, especially if you're melee. Not that it requires more skill, the class itself just requires too much "beating the odds" of Hit %, Crit %, and Dodge % to kill or live.

why not just be a bow bear , or duel bear , that works perfect at both pvp and pve :cool:

my dex and strength stats are above... i am duel bear, the bow bear i can set up but seams to die quickly

i will master the sword shield bear then move forward with the bow bear.


thank you for you feed back and help

eyll and otu

or any one else

any suggestions with my skills and points

(e i did ready your suggestion about evade and taunt )


skills -
vs - 3
cs - 1
iron - 6
stomp - 6
sms - 6
scream - 6
rage - 6
crushing - 6
evade - 6
taunt - 3
becon - 6

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Herozheng

why not just be a bow bear , or duel bear , that works perfect at both pvp and pve :cool:

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A bow bear is good, trust me I've tried every aspect of a bear for PvP. Int, bow, talon, mixed str/dex gear.

The safest and most all around choice is still the str setup. Dex bears are good, but are more gear reliant than any of the other types of bear.

Get a Custom Set, pop 6 Rage, and normal attack people to death is enough. Dex bears tend to only shine if they aren't the target too, more for 1v1 types. Get 2 birds and/or mages on the dex bear, and he wouldn't last very long.

Also, unless I'm mistaken and things have changed, PL isn't about the hybrid-ness of the character. eg bow bear, str bird, str/dex mage, but the pureness of each character. eg str bear, dex bird, int mage. But even then, both birds and mages can be pure dex/pure int, but a bear can never be pure strength.

I have a slight feeling that dual spec-ing will be phased out slowly. Maybe in the upcoming update, maybe not. Just a guess :)

so if i go full strength and run rooter/bellows/royal that would be better than dex/str that i mentioned above?

i only split the str/ dex to get the damage and hit from the dex...

if i go all str i woud lose the hit wouldnt i ?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mejslll

so if i go full strength and run rooter/bellows/royal that would be better than dex/str that i mentioned above?

i only split the str/ dex to get the damage and hit from the dex...

if i go all str i woud lose the hit wouldnt i ?

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Losing all the dex wouldn't be worth it, IMO.

Rooter's is the only piece that gives Hit % for BS gear. If I recall correctly, pure strength gives you about 65% Hit only, meaning you would need roughly 30% more Hit from gear alone just to compete with a dual spec build.

So yeah, you'd lose all the Hit % while gaining more health, a few more dodge, and a few more armour. Damage is negligible or lower.

sounds like the str and dex mix i have will be the way to go ... and i will have to get better with skills and the situations i put my self in during pvp...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mejslll

sounds like the str and dex mix i have will be the way to go ... and i will have to get better with skills and the situations i put my self in during pvp...

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Str/dex should be the best. I can guarantee that a pure strength bear will almost never do well in PvP. If someone does manage to be better than a str/dex while being pure str, I have much to learn :D

And yes, practice practice practice :)