All Mighty Greed! Manners?

When do manners really happen? None that I have seen!
I have a 53 mage and have been farming for weeks with my mage for a voodoo set for a twink I am building.
I have several friends that join off and on.
Well tonight as I was farming, a friend I group with often joins. We run and the final piece I need drops. He "woots" leaves.
Comes back saying how MUCH that'd sell for.
my thoughts are knowing more ppl running a zone more pinks will drop: BUT?
Knowing I needed it I think he shoulda passed it over. I know I have and woulda.
I deleted and ignored

Am I wrong?

No that was completely neccascary .Dont know how to spell add me my name is trabeles im really close to 50

So a friend of yours gets a drop that you need and instead of "giving" it to you, he offers to sell it to you? I'd have to say you're in the wrong. That doesn't really have much to do with manners in my book but more friendship. It's not considered polite to give away high end items to a fellow player, it's nice but shouldn't be expected on any level. The way it seems to me is that you believe that it's something that you would have done if the situation was reversed, but the fact that you say you "woulda" indicates that you have not been in the same situation. Sometimes it's hard to grind for pinks only to feel obligated to hand them over after success if finally achieved; greed is a powerful motivator.

Well in your game play maybe. Not in mine. I know the situation. But I do enjoy your opinion. Thank you.

I know robes are high end but you're wrong friend. I've given away 3 voodoo wands and 1 to him.
Point IS is that game or not : friends are friends.
Thx for your opinion.

Has nothing to do with my game play, just human nature. If I do sewer runs and know that a friend has been farming for a RR recurve for days/weeks, if I run with them and it drops I may give it up. We are talking a 600k+ item and sure I would give it away, but if this friend expected me to hand it over simply because they said they needed it... well that would complicate things a bit. Think of going to a nice hotel and a bellhop brings the bags to your room, after you get settled he holds his hand out expecting compensation. I personally think that just made the situation forced, I would have been more than happy to fork over a few dollars for his work but now that I know he expects it... well I'm less inclined to be polite.

I agree that friends are important, but we are talking an online game. I don't know anyone from this game in real life, friends come and go online. I get dozens of friend requests just walking to the cs, so I cannot say they all mean something to me. Sorry you had a one sided friendship with another player, but sometimes that's the way it goes (even in rl).

i have to agree with gluttony, though you are correct there are times anothers greed can be somthing of frusturation, an examp,e of this is when I have been farming somone stops in and gets to you while you are killing the boss and gets the drop, The peraon does jot stay to continue farming with you and heads for another game in progress to do the same again, that in my view is ignorance, There are many times i am the pally holding the aggro at a boss, so stopping to boot in a room of tanks and birds to boot means death.

I u derstand how you feel about being a giver, and to have the ones you give to the most not even think to help you. I have a friend I had farmed with over and again our goal was for the mega mage set, she needed the wand and bracer to be compleate, In our runs got them both, and i gave them to her, we continued farming she got the wand and bracer and asked me to buy them for 1.6 mill. Needless to say that was not the agreement, ( i have not gotten another drop for mage items since week 2 lol still no mega mage lol) and i choose to no longer farm with this person. Not all have that class nor giving spirit, three cheers for you for being a giver.

I have to agree with Gluttony on this one.

All depends on the circumstances. You sound like me.... I'd normally hand stuff over unless it was a rare and expensive item.

There's plenty that can be done to reduce this happening again though, like have a clear discussion and an agreement beforehand, lower your expectations of others and let all your friends know your looking for one if they come across one.... Maybe even post on the forums to see if someone has a spare going cheap.

The easiest though is to forget about it and move on... Human nature is a complex thing and the world simply isn't as it should be sometimes, I definitely find it blooming frusrating too, but what can you do? You only have control of your own actions.... Their drop is their drop at the end of the day.

What price they going for these days?

he has all right to keep the item. It was a drop to him. You cant really expect somebody to have a surge of kindness and give it to you. I would give a pink to my friends unless its a high end item that I need. And the only pinks that I need right now is RR recurve and RR leather. If I know one of my friends needs the item, I give it to them. And of course, not many people are even on my friends list. The item was his, it dropped to him. If he was a real friend and wasnt just some random dude from a game, who knows? He might have given it to you.

I think being upset that someone was greedy because he wouldn't GIVE you something he dropped is greedy. His drop didn't happen because you cleared the map. His drop happened because he was slated to get the drop. It's totally random and odds are that wouldn't have dropped at all if a different person had joined you.

Instead of being disappointed, why not be happy that your friend got an awesome drop? He may have needed the gold to buy something he needs and has been saving up for for weeks.

I agree that expecting a friend to GIVE a drop away is greedy. I get drops, make sales, etc and do not expect others to give me anything. If they do, great, but I do not expect it. I also will give away drops I do not need but again, I will do it but no one had better EXPECT it.

Of course, how you manage your friends list is up to you.

On my side, if a "friend" told me to give him my drop, well, sorry, but that's NOT a friend. If they ask or offer to buy it, that's a different story. But an order...I'm not good with orders. I'd start thinking, well, what happens if next time we play together and HE gets a drop I want? Is he obligated to give it to me? Does he get to CHOOSE when to make a gift or do I choose? Because if he's giving me orders, then I think I get to choose which of his pinks, future or current, I WANT. And I'm guessing that'd be a problem between us...

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Originally Posted by Battlelock:378992

When do manners really happen? None that I have seen!
I have a 53 mage and have been farming for weeks with my mage for a voodoo set for a twink I am building.
I have several friends that join off and on.
Well tonight as I was farming, a friend I group with often joins. We run and the final piece I need drops. He "woots" leaves.
Comes back saying how MUCH that'd sell for.
my thoughts are knowing more ppl running a zone more pinks will drop: BUT?
Knowing I needed it I think he shoulda passed it over. I know I have and woulda.
I deleted and ignored

Am I wrong?

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I don't think Battlelock is being greedy. Under the circumstances, that's bit cold hearted to say that. He'd been farming for weeks, frequently with guy who got the drop who knew he was farming for the set, AND previously he had given that guy a voodoo wand. The guy that got the drop should have remebered the gift he received and returned the kind favor. He was the one being greedy - - under these circumstances.

But, that is not going to happen too frequently in the game. I know when this kind if thing happens, it can really sting. In order to be able to enjoy the game no matter what, I try to keep focused on what is enforceable and what's not. And, just try not to worry about stuff I don't have control over. In other words, if someone gets a drop I really need, and he dont cept to sell or for an alt, if he offers it to me fine, but I truly dont expect it. This way im not disappointed.

With the random drop system we have, I think part of the idea is that many people may not get what they need in drops, but hopefully they'll get enough stuff to sell to buy what they need.

In video games years ago, there was a "nb4g" policy/tradtion. "Nb4g" means need before greed. When loot dropped whoever needed it was entitled to it. There was no auto-looting like there is in this game. After the incident that happened to you, this may seem like a great idea. But, this is one of those things that looks great on paper but does NOT workout as expected. As harsh as it may be once-in-a-while, our auto-looting system is a thousand times better than these other methods.

These other methods used to slow down the rate of killing mobs at least in half. So xp and farming was twice as slow as it is today. Rarely was everyone happy with decisions that were made. We'd have to all stand around when anything even halfway decent dropped do that evryone could roll dice. People would ninja loot. All this could cause server-wide drama for days or even weeks. It was incredibly boring, painful and frustrating.

But, naw you weren't being greedy, just had expectations that sometimes others aren't going to live up to. Just as in real life, don't sweat the small stuff or stuff you can't control.

Have you gotten your last piece yet? What do you need? I might have it. If I do, I will gift it to you.

Nonsense. If someone gets a drop, you should be happy for him, not expect him to give it to you.

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Originally Posted by Snakespeare:385231

Nonsense. If someone gets a drop, you should be happy for him, not expect him to give it to you.

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Hey! I agree. In fact that is exactly what I said in my post. In video games, even more than in real life, you will live in a constant state of disappointment, if you actually expect soneone to not be greedy and think of someone else first. When it does happen, great! And it happens a lot, just not often enough.

So, yeah, did the guy who got the drop have the right to keep it? Yes. One, well, that is how this game works. Two, the ramdomness of drops hopefully more or less evens out, so that if you don't get what u need by drops, u can sell what u do get so u can buy what u need. This was also mentioned in my post.

Obviously, if im farming with somone, even off and on for weeks as is the case here, and someone gets an item that I need, no way is he expected to just give it to me. That would be ridic. Although I can't tell u how many times, I have gotten a drop and someone who could use it asked me to give it to him, lol. And, I don't mean they offered to buy it, they just wanted it free. So, it is apparent, that many, many people do not agree with us.

The exception would be, if they had some kind of agreement indicating who would get what and so on. In this case, it's not totally clear if they had that agreement. But, the vibe im getting, tho, is prob not. Else the op prob would have said that. But, even if that agreement had been made, there are a lot of greedy liars who would just take off with a good piece of loot and just disregard any agreements. And the fact is, unless u know soneone real, real good - which is hard to do in a video game - it would be a stupid agreement to invest any time behind cuz it is not enforceable. This is how scams can develop.

The reason in this case, the guy who got the drop was being greedy is, the op, one our forum members had given - free of charge - him a piece of the gear out of the line that they had been farming. Instead of offering to repay the favor, the guy kept the recently dropped item. And then came back and bragged about its value. That is where the greed lies. Not with battlerock, but with this other guy.

So, technically speaking, the guy had the right to keep it. But that doesn't mean he wasn't being greedy. He had the right to keep it, but see, he also had the right to give it away. He choose not to. So, at least for this situation, he was being greedy when he could have been generous and repaid the generous act that battlerock did.

But the biggest prob with people's responses was the way they called battlerock greedy. That's ridic. It is clear that in general he is not greedy. He just gives valuable loot away for free, multiple times. But, even thinking this guy should have given him the item, well, one, that idea is not entirely without merit and two, he posted this post out of a feeling of being betrayed. No where does that means he was being greedy. The vibe I got was that he was disappointed with the guy and felt betrayed. The post was not motivated by greed. It's basically a lesson learned. It seemed like the situ was still stinging a bit and to call our forum member greedy, when the greedy guy was the other one. That was the cold hearted part.

Did the guy have the right to keep it. Yes. But, under these circumstances that was a greedy act. But greed happens a million times a day in every mmo ever created. Not a whole lot anyone can do about it. Just be more cautious in the future.

You are WRONG! If one of your friends saw you while you were on a walk and you were talking about how you really want five dollars and he just so happens to find a five dollar bill are you just gonna stop being his friend because he has "no manners" lmfao

Like gluttony said, its not a matter of right or wrong.

1. It depends on how close you and your friend are
2. Dont expect your friend to give away their drops to you. What if it was sewer and he got the MM Robes u needed?

Imo, i think youre the one that needs the manners. Greedy and expectant.

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Originally Posted by Flickz:385434

You are WRONG! If one of your friends saw you while you were on a walk and you were talking about how you really want five dollars and he just so happens to find a five dollar bill are you just gonna stop being his friend because he has "no manners" lmfao

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Would I expect a friend to give me a 5 that he finds, simply cuz I need it? No. in fact that is what I have said several times, lol.

I'll repeat: I have said that very thing several times.

Should someone, anyone, give someone a drop for no other reason but that they "need" it? No. I have said that several times.

I'll repeat: I have said that very thing several times. This game has no such tradition or requirment.

Ok, so i'm walking around town, and man do I need a 5. My friend is walking up the street towards me and finds a 5. Is there any reason he needs to just give me that 5? No. l'll repeat: No, no reason at all.

I'll repeat: no, no reason at all.

But, if he was a generous kind of guy, he might think back to how just last week I gave him a 5 when he needed it.

I'll repeat: just last week I gave him a 5 when he needed it.

So.... If he was a generous kind of guy - - - he COULD - - - if he WANTED to - - -say, "Hey! Look at the drop I just got! Hmmm... I know you need one of these things, and, well, after all, you gave me one of these things just last week when I needed it, ssoooooo, imma going to just go ahead and give this to you. Not because, I have to, but because i'm feeling generous because you gave me one last week".

I'll repeat: he gave the guy the 5 NOT because he had to, but because he wanted to.

Why, did he want to give away the 5 he just found? To repay the favor that he recieved when he was in need. Did he have to? Was he required to? Should he have been expected to? No.

I'll repeat: no.

I feel for the op, though. And, I was suggesting that you should never expect a favor to be repaid or expect people to act in a generous way.

I'll repeat: don't expect it.

Sometimes they will, but don't expect it.

I'll repeat: sometimes they will, but don't expect it.

Now the question is: why?

Why, am I suggesting, that you should not expect people to be generous and/or repay a favor?

First off, there are many who will. There are many wonderful people in this game and in the world. But, not everyone will. Ssssoooooo, don't expect it.

I'll repeat: some will, but don't expect it.

So, back to question: why? Why am I suggesting that you should not expect people to be generous and/or repay a favor?

I'll repeat: why?

I mean, shouldn't people be generous and repay favors? Imo, yes. Just, don't expect it.

I'll repeat: don't expect it

Why? Answer = for the sake of your own happiness, peace of mind and sanity. Because it's not gonna happen nearly as often as it should. And, if you expect it as often as it's due you are gonna be constantly disappointed.

I'll repeat: why do that to yourself?

And, I don't mean doing something like writing on the chalkboard 100 times "I will not expect it" "I will not expect it". But, then live in a state of denial and anguish. Because, deep down you still really expect it.

I mean, really, really wiggle things around in your mind till ya really are ok with this situ and you truly, no longer expect it. Kinda, a zen-like centering.

I'll repeat: Ummm........

People are not always gonna repay favors or be generous. So, don't expect it.

I'll repeat: don't expect it.

Just be the kind of person you think you should be, and you'll do fine. Don't let people take advantage of you, but if you think generousity is important, don't let people burn that out of you.

I'll repeat: To thy ownself be true.

One last point. In my last post in this thread, I made a point that I didn't directly bring up in this post. But, a few other posters on this thread have done quite a bit to prove my point for me. It's like you wanted to save me some time or something. I feel like I should take the time to thank you for helping me.

I repeat: Thank you.

Well its the same as if your freind came across $100 dollars amd u need $100. Just because shes ur friend deoesnt mean she should give it to u.

I agree with glut :P

About giving... Gluttony said it best.

About "Manners"... I think good manners is when you say "Grats!" because someone else gets a drop.

If something drops for someone and I really need it, I won't say anything. I don't ask to trade or buy, and I don't even ask to see it in a trade window. People don't know how much things are worth until they check cs. It's not right to pressure people to give you something you want, and they don't even know how much it's worth. This is especially not a good thing to do to a friend. We all want pinks, we are happy when we get them, don't take that away from your friend because the item would be nice on your twink.

If I was level 53, farming for a twink, I would have a different plan. I would level up the 53, and use the loot and gold from leveling to buy the Voodoo set, which would cost under 300k. The weeks of farming would instead be weeks of leveling. I could earn the 300k while leveling.

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Originally Posted by Aikiebo

In video games years ago, there was a "nb4g" policy/tradtion. "Nb4g" means need before greed. When loot dropped whoever needed it was entitled to it. There was no auto-looting like there is in this game. After the incident that happened to you, this may seem like a great idea. But, this is one of those things that looks great on paper but does NOT workout as expected. As harsh as it may be once-in-a-while, our auto-looting system is a thousand times better than these other methods.

These other methods used to slow down the rate of killing mobs at least in half. So xp and farming was twice as slow as it is today. Rarely was everyone happy with decisions that were made. We'd have to all stand around when anything even halfway decent dropped do that evryone could roll dice. People would ninja loot. All this could cause server-wide drama for days or even weeks. It was incredibly boring, painful and frustrating.

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I remember those days in eq. The looting after a raid was problematic. Whoever looted the corpse first locked out everyone else. So, as the dragon (or whatever) was dying, people would get ready to click as fast as possible to be first to open the loot window. Hopefully the raid organizer would get in first. If not, then we would not know what disappeared due to a ninja looter. The random loot method in PL is so much better.