Developers: is this the experience you want for players?

An open letter to PL developers:

I wanted to share my recent experience with PL and find out how it strikes you. Here's my story.

I started working on Nuri's Hollows when I hit level 57. I thought I'd try to craft for myself a demonic set through determined application of time and effort. So, I played exclusively in Nuri's from 57 all the way until I recently hit 61. Every single run I did bosses and mini bosses, never wanting to pass up the chance to get a legendary drop or rare crafting component. I wanted to craft the set for myself rather than waiting for someone else to do it and buying it. I figured it would be a good challenge to do it myself.

As of now, I have earned a little less than half the crafting components and recipes I need. But the big thing is I have earned zero of the legendary items (helm, plate, etc) I need. In fact, I've only ever seen a single legendary item drop, and it went to someone else. So I have to wonder, is this really what you want the experience to be like? I played for the equivalent of 13 levels (grind from 60 to 61 is effectively 10 levels) and I literally never got a single item I needed. And I didn't pass up a single drop chance along the way either.

Now I realize someone's going to say "well you're just unlucky" or "I know player x who got 20 drops" or other comments of that nature. It's true that my story is anecdotal, and maybe it is unusually unlucky. I guess only someone with access to the drop rate code could answer that. But my point here is, it doesn't matter what happened to others. This is how it happened for *me*, so it's the only experience I'll ever have. Sure, I can go buy what I need from the store. But I have to wonder, how do *those* people get the items that they're selling? If people were counting on me to supply the items for sale, they'd literally never get what they want, because even if I played forever at this rate, there'd still be zero for me to sell.

So I go back to my original question: is this the experience the developers are hoping for? I'm a pretty patient, determined player and I don't get discouraged easily. But it's hard not to walk away discouraged from this experience. I did everything I could do and still came up empty. Not "a little bit short" or "need to try a little harder" but completely shut out. I understand the value of having difficult challenges to achieve in a game, but I really think there needs to be some reevaluation here. Players really ought to get something if they try hard enough, and apparently the drop rate is so low that it's possible never to get anything at all. I know because I just proved it.

Im sorry to hear that :( and ive heard this before. Nuris was not nearly as generous as sewers was for me. I did get pinks but mainly when they dramatically decreased in value.
Well hopefully this cheers you up and gives you something to look forward to. Mt Fang is coming, and you may just be the luckiest son of a squirrel with its drop rates. Everything comes and goes. :)

One significant thing I noticed since AO3 is that the mobs are alot harder! There seems to be fewer drops now and I got whacked to death by a single broom! Fanstasia all over again. ;)

I understand your frustration. Try leveling 2 toons from 56 to 61. I got 3 Glyph Drops total. But I take that as they are Legendary drops. They are supposed to be extremely rare. A lot of the people you see who seem to have these items all of the time are merchant's who buy them from others to resell. I think people sometimes forget, there are a lot of people (and I mean a lot, onetime heard the millions number stated by the devs) that play pocket legends. And to see the relatively small number of items listed in cs, I would say they are rare like they are supposed to be.

Tapatalk'd from my PowerWashed Fascinate

I do miss ao3 days. Not to complain but items and levels being harder to farm and requiring days and days of farming has made it hard to sit down and play. Now with school and basketball I dont have much time to play it so I never get the new end game set like demonic or strongman until 2 map releases later when its dropped 200k.

From Lvl 60-61 I didn't see one Glyhp,Over 100,000 exp?
Its not fun and I value your honest insight!
:bull_head:

I ended up buying my entire set by selling old gear and tapping into my piggy bank :miserable: I wish I was lucky, but instead I just saved and saved and saved until I got a nest egg that I could use to buy some gear. There's no way I could afford Demonic but the only situation in which I'd attempt to get it were if that was the final, final endgame set ;)

I think there is a difference between the number of downloads and Facebook likes vs people that play often.
I have to choose my words or the troll and flame police will be all over me.
No one can argue the drop rate gets lower and lower with every update,Thats why for the Sewers seeing a million was not uncommon and for Nuri it got up to four - six.:distress:

It is only 10 lvls from 60-61?

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Originally Posted by Cascade

It is only 10 lvls from 60-61?

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I think it's less actually since to 61 is 100,590xp which will become 10,059xp after the update and level 62 will be more than that. I think the estimation is only valid if one uses it under the pretense that you're repeating level 60 ten times over.

On topic: I also leveled from 60 to 61 without seeing a craftable glyph drop, which is one aspect of this thread, but another issue is that I didn't receive one glyph steel or para leather that I would need to craft the Avian demonic set. Those items are not even legendary drops, but are uncommon drops and I couldn't get one in over 100k xp gained. Discouraging indeed.

Same here, although I've gotten a few steels along the way but somehow 2 of them disappeared.

This argument can go both ways though; if they raise the drop rate people will complain the items are too common, but if they keep em low people will complain about not getting anything :/

I don't think it has to be all or nothing!
But we dont have a say,They only change when everyone gets in a uproar.

I hate to sat it but I had the complete opposite experience, I lvled from 56-61 and got every drop I need by the time I had 10k left to 61. It made the demonic set worth so much more to me. I noticed that when I play at random times during day I would get more drops. Not farming 10-12 every night, that never seems to work. Also I prefer pugs over other games as you seem to have more luck. ( BTW I have demonic wand set)

Let me guess.. You were not using any platinum elixirs.. Thats why this happened with you... Well I'm used to of these facts...

I got 4 pinks leveling from 58 to 61 ( i dont really count 60-61 as i killed probably 10 bosses in that time) as well as a few scraps and 3 blade steels, personally jad much better luck than in sewer, when did full hideout and stronghold runs with no elixers and got 5 pinks in 83k xp compared to like 18k xp 58-60. I really miss the AO3 days however, i didnt really get to enjoy much of this solid cap, as i started only 3 months before sewers and spent much time getting all 3 classes to level 50, i received 2 decent drops in this time, and could not afford a nice AO3 set, thankfully however the shadow caves came out and i farmed (easily) 3 sets of gear. The drop rates were reduced drastically and now any drop is astounding to see. I enjoy these elite items but due to the new found elixir craze, the items are no longer truely elite, more or less an 'I spend money on the game' type item. I wish they would bring back a solid level cap, and just add some elite dungeons to it. If those drops were extremely rare many elixirs would still be bought for farming, like the shadow witch could really only be taken by elixed tanks, a 1 hit put everyone else down, also what is missing are the nice quest sets. AO3 had 4 sets the regular(rift, void, cosmos), the elite(hate, death, shadows), and 2 quested sets(crafted mystery, and cyber). Since then the caps have been reduced to a normal(quite pricey), and a crafted(extremely pricey) along with the elite vanity set, which isnt really gear. Why not give a nice quest set to those that try super hard but are just unlucky. And as new content is added on, maybe add an elite dungeon. I believe Mt Fang was originally suposed to be. Rushing new caps just make the old areas less memorable and the items dont seem as epic.

This game, unlike other mmo's that I have played, has always promoted a sort of elitism to attract and hold players. It seems bit sad to me that the only way someone can feel happy is if they can look around and see how much more they have than others.

Instead of feeling good about ALL getting the good gear, some people actually wish for drop rates to get lowered. How awful.

If only a tiny percentage will be able to get the absolute best. A lot of people will give up cuz they get discouraged because they believe the don't have much of a chance - so why bother? If it is going to take forever to get the gear, and even if you spend forever, you still might not get it, well, then, why bother? This is unfortunealy how a lot of players will think. And they are right, at least at this time, so yeah, they figure, "why bother?".

Hopefully, with the possible upcoming changes to the drop level/looting system, maybe things will get better.

Until then, I hope everyone's luck improves.

Me.... 3 toons from 56 to 61 all stacked 4x combo and bigluck = 1 single drop

I feel you :-/

This is a flaw in PL's rarity and loot system. It almost exclusively rewards luck only, nothing more nothing less. You either win big or none at all.

Out of curiosity, would you know how much gold you earned from all the time you spent to 61?

Fusion, i totally understand how you feel. You and I are in same guild. I went 3 weeks without anything better than a green drop. Lucky lixer, nope rarely got the "reroll for better loot" on my screen. Bought big luck when it came out best I've gotten so far is 1 glyph steel. It is indeed very discouraging to grind for hours and days and not get anything that will help u craft the items.

However the consolation I took was that in the process of all that grinding, I managed to accumulate the gold I needed to buy demonic and that happened totally by accident. LOL. Not as satisfying, as crafting would have been though. I remember the feeling of accomplishment I had when I finished then mystery set for my Mage!!! It was fantastic!! Maybe that is the solution . . Quests to get the items that are needed for crafting??

At least there would be a feeling of accomplishing something, other than the Endless frustration a lot of us have right now.

PL has a history of dropping lots of pinks the first week of release then adjusting the drop rate way down. I received several glyphs the first week or two but haven't gotten any in the last month. If you want to make some money and get good gear the key is to play the new maps as soon as they come out and hold onto all the pinks you get for resale later.

Pinks are supposed to be legendary- the best gear comes at a heavy price, though there is other less expensive gear you could use.

suppose i didnt have it as bad as some. Nuris is what made me cave & buy elixrs ( one shot mobs ) so im sure that helped a bit, but for the ob. set i recieved the glyph armor & that was all. I did however make eough buy what I needed to complete the set just off selling trash drops. When i ended up just a little short to craft demonic I learned to merch a bit, and that got me there. So merching & farming can help.

Make the dungeons harder with complex strategies but assure a item drop. Yes , another world of Warcraft concept.

I did almost the same, I tried to farm for everything through to making a demonic dex set. I ended up buying the obedience auto-bow and the last two para leather (I cave in...).

The experience was mixed, a bit demoralizing -- the satisfaction at the end would have been ten times better if I didn't buy, but hey... :-/ As I was leveling my bear last night, another bird got a pink three times in a row for each map from symphony to boggy -- good on him, but erhm... go figure :-/

It is a difficult task that the devs have.

On one hand, it must be easy enough that anyone that tries hard enough can get it. At the same time, it must be hard enough to be worth doing.

I myself have had horrible luck with drops too. I have not had a single drop worth more than a glyphic blade steel since September. I do not however blame the system. I think that the devs to be honest have made a reasonably good compromise (although I do wish that there was the option to buy the ingredients for hundreds of plat).

I'm not sure whether it's luck or just where people are running?

I've never seen Panto Mime drop items and nothing from Funhouse, but I've recently started to level again (the last week -- actually about 3 days of 3-5 hour sessions) and I've done complete runs of Pain, Den, Boggy, and Madness.

I've seen a couple Glyph drops and about 6 steels drop, besides other crafting components. Actually I would say Pain, Den and Boggy drop the most. Madness was just once, even with I don't know how many rushes, though that one time was a double pink drop...

So everyone go out and get me some steel!! Weird thing is I dropped the same number of steel as I have para amid cloth. Only thing is that's only 2 of each :p and well, one is tons cheaper in CS than the other.

Well, to some extents i agree with you and some i don't. I understand for players that are just starting, or have started the nuri hallows campaign have a disadvantage to getting the gear they want. After weeks, sometimes only days, the drop rate of legendary items decreases excruciatingly. I must admit as i continute to farm to for extra gold with a demon set it seems almost impossible to get a good drop. I believe the drop rate for lotting legendary items is from around every 200-300 rounds on average..? (too tired now to do the math >.>) but that's just on average. some get luckier some don't.

Getting away from those upsetting facts, the good thing is that you are ready for the next campaigns to come. The idea is to loot items as fast as possible since the drop rates are highest the first couple of days. Make gold off of those items for a few hundred thousand coins.

Besides, don't give up. Any hardcore player will tell you they hate not getting any items after farming for hours spending up platinum for elixirs, you're not alone. hang in there!

Edit: on another note the devs made a good comprise on this system. they want to make legendary items legendary lol, for their rareness. So when a player does loot an item like this some pride can be taken into account :D

another thing to realize is if you're on the combo elixirs they give 4x experience. That's 1/4 the amount of drops as you level.

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Originally Posted by Aikiebo:480550

This game, unlike other mmo's that I have played, has always promoted a sort of elitism to attract and hold players. It seems bit sad to me that the only way someone can feel happy is if they can look around and see how much more they have than others.

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I dont think its the top rich players looking down on all the poor players, its more lower players wanting to look epic like the top players. For me once i get a set I dont think of it as the super amazing unattainable item. And thats what all of this is we want those unattainable items cuz we see an aura of how amazing the few with them are, but once we get them we dont really care till next update.

This is must out of my idea. PROBABLY (and this is a gigantic probably reason i cappped it) they wanted to give players a lil realistic feeling to the game and more community lets work together sort of thing or something. Imagine this in the real world. What if you wanted to make yourself food out of yourself would you go look for the food hunt it cook it fix it up go get the (whatever needed for whatever drink) amd get all of that. Then to make it? That would take forever to eat a plain meal. While! You have the power to acces economy. Irl you would buy yourself food not make it (you might also cook it but dont count that). You got what poeple made that they dont need and will sell it to you to get what they need. Thats my perspective of things

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Originally Posted by robert7204

another thing to realize is if you're on the combo elixirs they give 4x experience. That's 1/4 the amount of drops as you level.

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This is a good point, and a detail I left out. I actually used no elixirs at all getting to 60, so I had the "maximum" number of runs since I earned xp at the normal rate. From 60 to 61 I did use xp boosting elixir heavily (trying to beat mt fang release date) so I suppose rather than approx 10 levels from 60 to 61 I really did about 2. So I guess I'd revise my comments to say I did the equivalent of 5 levels, not 10.

To the other poster who asked the gold I made in the meantime, I'm not sure. It hasn't been enough to buy the set, though I have bought a good chunk of the equipment I need. I'm still short mostly a bunch of steel, which at current prices in CS is about 1 mil worth.

I guess it's just frustrating that it's a pure luck system. There's literally nothing you can do to do better, since every try is just another random roll. I suppose you can use luck elixirs heavily, something I haven't tried. But I have a strong dislike of having to "buy" results, so I hope that's not the answer.

Personally, if it were my system, I'd tweak it to have an effort reward component. Every time a player didn't get a legendary drop, it would add to a counter. When that counter got high enough, it would start adding some luck boost to the player. When the player got one, the counter would go back to zero. If you set the "minimum count" for it to start helping appropriately, then you have a system that's still challenging but does eventually reward dedicated effort. This would certainly mean that the item would be less rare, but that could be controlled by how much the "fail count" helps, or the number of attempt it needs before it starts helping. Anyway, it would mean that those who try the hardest would be the ones getting the reward, rather than just those who were in the position to farm day and night the first week the place comes out. That to me is a much fairer and less discouraging way to handle it.

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Originally Posted by Elyseon

I dont think its the top rich players looking down on all the poor players, its more lower players wanting to look epic like the top players. For me once i get a set I dont think of it as the super amazing unattainable item. And thats what all of this is we want those unattainable items cuz we see an aura of how amazing the few with them are, but once we get them we dont really care till next update.

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Vanity can come at a price. I still remain quite happy having long parted ways with my Glyph Obedience autocross and Charmin' wand sets and instead running around in Mimicry and Nuri sets for a fraction of the cost. Sure, I lose out on a bit of set bonus stats and some stylin' flames but I'd rather horde my gold stash. Besides, as history may repeat itself, Demonic sets should likely drop further in value once Mt Fang gear starts a-rollin'. While I can't control my luck, I can definitely have a say as prices fall on Demonic gear.

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Originally Posted by Fusionstrike

An open letter to PL developers:

I wanted to share my recent experience with PL and find out how it strikes you. Here's my story.

I started working on Nuri's Hollows when I hit level 57. I thought I'd try to craft for myself a demonic set through determined application of time and effort. So, I played exclusively in Nuri's from 57 all the way until I recently hit 61. Every single run I did bosses and mini bosses, never wanting to pass up the chance to get a legendary drop or rare crafting component. I wanted to craft the set for myself rather than waiting for someone else to do it and buying it. I figured it would be a good challenge to do it myself.

As of now, I have earned a little less than half the crafting components and recipes I need. But the big thing is I have earned zero of the legendary items (helm, plate, etc) I need. In fact, I've only ever seen a single legendary item drop, and it went to someone else. So I have to wonder, is this really what you want the experience to be like? I played for the equivalent of 13 levels (grind from 60 to 61 is effectively 10 levels) and I literally never got a single item I needed. And I didn't pass up a single drop chance along the way either.

Now I realize someone's going to say "well you're just unlucky" or "I know player x who got 20 drops" or other comments of that nature. It's true that my story is anecdotal, and maybe it is unusually unlucky. I guess only someone with access to the drop rate code could answer that. But my point here is, it doesn't matter what happened to others. This is how it happened for *me*, so it's the only experience I'll ever have. Sure, I can go buy what I need from the store. But I have to wonder, how do *those* people get the items that they're selling? If people were counting on me to supply the items for sale, they'd literally never get what they want, because even if I played forever at this rate, there'd still be zero for me to sell.

So I go back to my original question: is this the experience the developers are hoping for? I'm a pretty patient, determined player and I don't get discouraged easily. But it's hard not to walk away discouraged from this experience. I did everything I could do and still came up empty. Not "a little bit short" or "need to try a little harder" but completely shut out. I understand the value of having difficult challenges to achieve in a game, but I really think there needs to be some reevaluation here. Players really ought to get something if they try hard enough, and apparently the drop rate is so low that it's possible never to get anything at all. I know because I just proved it.

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I know a lot of people who say the same thing. I haven't earned many crafting supplies other than para aramid cloth. i pretty much only need steel at this point to finish my demonic set. I've never received steel as a drop. i've been farming it for quite some time and still nothing. When i'm in a match and others get it i become quite discouraged. But i keep playing in hopes that one day i will get enough without having to buy it for a ridiculous price in cs. also people of the cs who make ridiculous price amounts... knock it off!

I feel you... I haven't been able to farm all the gear I use since AO3. I farmed and farmed and farmed sewers for a Fury shield for months. It didn't drop for me until about 3 weeks before Nuri's was released. I suggest you just try to earn as much gold as possible and buy.

Maybe I'm lucky idk but I saw a glyph steel drop for me first time in lions den, and the second saw a friend get a legendary. Never seen either since.

I farm all day for armor on star legends i always get the rare that is so common nothing else then my cuzin got the vanity Comedy!!!!

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Originally Posted by Scoutninja

I farm all day for armor on star legends i always get the rare that is so common nothing else then my cuzin got the vanity Comedy!!!!

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Did you want comedy? If you did I could sell it to you