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I think devs should turn Warrior and Sorcerer into damage class.
Why? Because the content they are creating does not have space for a Tank or Support class.
The idea is to change the skill damage numbers.
All classes have unique skills, animations and will have different play style being melee, mid range and ranged, so they will still be unique.
If not, why not?
I made my earlier thread with the same thought tbh. But I'm not trying to abolish the Tank Class all together. I will use Tank Class for my example since that is the only thing I play. In most MMORPG/Hack and Slash games, Classes have Talent Trees with at least 2 options of a path to pick. The game I came from Order and Chaos which was a really big MMORPG in it's prime had this 2 Path Talent Tree option and it was awesome. They had the normal Tank Path where you soak up the damage taken to group, as well as holding all aggro, High HP/Armor but low Damage and Crit type of build. And they also had the DPS War Path(Build was High HP/Damage/Crit but low Armor.) where a War can go full DPS and Duel Wield Axes, Swords, Hammers it was sick. But Wars were not healers in this game. That was Monk Class. And there class 2nd Talent Path was called Military Monk. Which was a full Dps Duel Wield Monk class which was also sick. Mages Main Path was Full DPS and 2nd Path was I believe a support type clase. I wish AL had these type Talent Path Options.
Also in Order and Chaos. You could have 2 Wars in a PT one a Tank and other DPS War and you weren't losing out on anything. There wasn't people complaining about 2 wars or avoiding inviting 2 Wars to PT. In AL if both Wars are really OP, 2 Wars in a PT is fine. But there is only handful of truly OP Wars in this game to begin with.
Devs couldn't solve problems like reflects whole expansion (same as tainted at 66), nobody testing things before release, best AA (glow) was broken for 2 years or more, one of the best pet (zhulong) had broken aura at start, fixed only after 3 months, and now aura removed for no reasons lmao. Need more examples? many things still broken and nobody cares...Quote:
Originally Posted by Genius
do you really think that AL can take those global changes? each new thing (even small) in AL causing more and more bugs.
I'll prefer if sts make another content where all classes needed, instead of changing all classes to dmg type
There can be many things broken in the game but I feel in any game: character (in mmo its class/race/skills etc) and environment (glitches/bugs) issues always take precedence over any other issue. The character issues are more inclined towards balancing, where as environment issues are inclined towards programming and designing.Quote:
Originally Posted by slaaayerrr
Most of the surveys conducted by Reddit, Ubisoft and Blizzard shows that "random and inconsistent balancing" is among the top 3 issues why players leave a game, lack of gold/bad economy was #6. So issues related to these two components can break a game.
Now I am sure the devs are more informed about these things, and I see the environment (programming) side of STS is very prompt at fixing things. Why don't they have the same promptness on the balancing side? Is the issue with talent or labour? Is there anything the players do to help?
I feel we need more transparency and information from devs on this.
The long way to work around the issues you pointed out is to create specializations, something like a talent tree model that you speak of; A warrior can chose to be a Tank or a DD and both specialization will have different stats or skills. Mage can chose to be a Support or a DD, and similarly they can create a new specialization for rogues. But this requires lot of effort, talent and labor, which I am not sure STS is willing to spend on an old game. They might prefer making a new game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fearrr
The easiest way around it is to balance the stats across the classes to make them DD. This will balance the classes in both PVE and PVP, and I think this will revive PvP as well.
Class balance has never worked well in AL with tanks being the only class that relies on other classes for anything. A tank needs a party to run, but parties often don't need or desire tanks.
Masking over this fact by just making everyone a DD feels very wrong from a gamer logic standpoint. Mainly I guess because everyone being a dd would ebb the last tiny bit of skill/teamwork element from the game.
However... since all attempts to restore class balance or a tri-class system have failed, at this point yes just make tanks damage dealers too and let them have the same experience as everyone else.
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That last paragraph was perfect. Now I will say this a War can still go Dps Build and still hold all aggro with 3 attack skills and heal. So to still keep this style of play because since there is only 4 Skill Slots available which leaves no room for VB/Rally Cry(I gave a DPS rework for both in another thread) (I don't think Sts is going to add a 5th Skill Slot either unfortunately), Buff the Passive Skill Damage which is currently at 2.5 and remove Quickness Passive which is useless. And add like a x amount of % to Double Attack (Goblin Blighted Glaive type of proc). Those are the fastest type of additions I can think of without using a Talent Tree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalmony
@ Genius your right something like remaking skills with Talent Tree Paths would take a lot of time and effort. And also not sure if Sts is willing to do something like that this late into game.
Its the maps and mobs, if some mobs were made to counter rogues tank like armor stat it could help.
Hopefully the tanks get a large increase in hp for new weapons, and mobs cast armor debuffs on our party. Cutting armor values in half(through mob debuffs), while giving tanks op hp buffs, might help.
Also the armor on mobs should be higher, while increasing CC for the mage class.
So: Large hp boost for tanks. Mobs cast armor debuffs. Higher armor for mobs. Longer/more effective CC for mages.
Sts, your absolute best example you have to work with is the Mausoleum expansion. By far your best expansion is years i would say.
They could alternatively add a few skill tweaks. Class specific passives or the like. Raw damage for tanks, crit hit damage(not chance,damage) for mages and whatever crappy for rogs.
Just some thoughts from someone who doesnt play tank :-).
"Hopefully the tanks get a large increase in hp for new weapons" - for what? they already immortal haha, they need some dmgQuote:
Originally Posted by Switchback
"Also the armor on mobs should be higher, while increasing CC for the mage class." - more armor for mobs = need more damage to kill them, its about 4rogues party again
"your absolute best example you have to work with is the Mausoleum expansion" - maus yes, perfect map where needed all classes (at 61-66 lvl), but ebon weapons...
"Raw damage for tanks" - raw damage will always bring some unbalance same as %damage, doesnt matter which class
and just think about what players will do if u suggest to make maps harder. pve already so low profit. harder maps = less ppl in pve.
This discussion is already regarding top gears for most endgame players. What about new players that about to come with their pink gears?
No, this discussion is for overall game - irrespective of level/gear, the changes are asked on the skill damage, i.e, the numbers that are changed based on stats.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jairus980
Now if the issue you are raising is that old/ low level gear will change the stats differently then I like to point out that differnce is already there. Classes are kinda balanced till level 46 gear, things change after level 57. Perhaps level 76 gear can be made keeping the new changes in mind.
There can never be a perfect balance, but they have to start somewhere.
Harder maps and/or a big armor/health nerf for all classes will fix it. If harder maps make it worth running too or everyone will stay in elite southern gates.
This is true in a way and I witnessed this fact in the elite maus while leveling for level 76. That map requires a Tank and players acknowledge that, its a map where people get mad if there are no/poor tanks :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Thewolfbull
I posted something similar a while ago on a diff thread, and I still agree the "ideal world" way forward is to cut rogue and mage armor/health so they really do rely on a tank to take aggro and protect them. Like to the point where a group of all rogues would take just as long (due to constant deaths & boss resets) as a group of all tanks due to lack of damage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thewolfbull
On that thread, all the rogues and mages jumped on with all the multitude of reasons they don't want to / shouldnt have to rely on a tank [emoji58]
At least giving tanks a legit damage dealer option will only affect tank players?
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What they did with VB is a good start, looking forward for more such changes. Skills are the key to balance, hope they keep at it.
Me to I hope there is more changes coming as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Genius
So after VB Rework I been doing some testing random runs Mogera Lair and The Valley Frontier map. Skill Layout Chest Splitter, Windmill, Axe Throw, VB. Because of only a 4 Skill Layout, imo in order to go full DPS with Full Aggro, I needed to drop the heal from my original Pve Build. Was kinda worried about doing this especially with randoms and how geared the rest might be in map, last thing I'm trying to do is get people killed. Luckily there was Mages, Wars, and Geared Rouges in a bunch of these scenarios which made it fine. I also use Heroic Sam and Glow AA which helps healing wise.
Results: Normally I’m 2018 Str, 24.6K HP, 3.9 K Damage and 51% Crit , Ebon Aegis ,with my Damage Set which is full Arc Set Lvl 71( Except My Lvl 60 AA) each item with Enhanced Str % Awakes. With VB 2094 Str, 25.4K HP, damage hits 5K and Crit 76%. I definitely noticed the increase in damage output. But I still feel like there is something missing. VB Rework is a step in the right direction with establishing a true DPS War Class. Like I said in a previous post getting rid of the Quickness Passive which is useless now, and adding something like Double Attack(Goblin Blighted Glaive Proc). Or another idea… Rage(Ya I got a name for it lol) Passive Ability, Attacks increase skill haste by x amount of %, stacks up to 5 times, 3 Secs of no attacking resets stacks. Order and Chaos had something similar to this with Duel Wield DPS War, but each weapon you can hold in Right or Left Hand(Sword, Axe, Mace, and Hammer) had a special Skill Proc to go with it in Talent Tree.
Now I say all of this with a Pve Mindset only. I don’t Pvp anymore I’m retired. So people understand how I’m approaching this and thinking.
Genius ! :welcoming:Quote:
Originally Posted by Genius
those mobs apply some DoTs on you, with ebon aegis u suppossed to reflect it... but u just remove all DoTs by glow... and say that u missing something :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Fearrr
You know you really crack me up. Ya Skype ...Sherlock Holmes you solved the Case! The only person whos missing something is you. I was only using Glow AA when another PT Memeber HP got dangerously low... Obviously! But no ...like you trying to make it sound like I'm spamming That AA every mob Pull lmao...With 24.6K HP. Since this post I have ran other maps with this same setup but not going to waste my breath. Other Wars have spoke up and said the same thing after VB Buff...that there is still more to be done. Not just me. You play Rouge Main Class right? So what you so concerned about my post and feedback for huh? Or let me guess your follow up comment is going to be if War Class had a Brain Bla Bla Bla....Quote:
Originally Posted by slaaayerrr
Sure balance all skills for all classes, but if you have to pick most important ones then balance damage of these skills
AOE - shadow storm shot (rog), windmill (war), fireball (sorc)
Single - aim shot (rog), lightning (sorc), axe throw (war)
Warrior and mage now is like a rogue to run map solo, but they remove the challange to run with other class hope all turn back that the warrior is a tank, mage is a support, all class now on mostly on pvp has a one hit, pls. make balance for each class not balance to do the other class can do,
hi need post
Too be honest i dont really feel like i need dmg dealers when iam running any map (doesnt mean i dont run with them, i dont mind being "supportive Warrior", but when it comes to clearing mobs as a Warrior u have a lots of tools that u can use).....iam combining different weapons and gears and iam OK....the biggest issue are bosses....i can kill most of them alone, but when it comes to "harder" ones (like Deep, mauso5/6, valley,...), as a Warrior iam of course having a hard time. Marross came up with great idea to solve it. Simply by buffing the Axe skill. Me and a lot of other War players came up with ideas how to make it happen....lots of options. Unfortunately it would probably make a massive PVP imbalance. This class difference will most likely be always there.....iam hoping that the new aegis will at least partly solve this issue
Oh btw the idea of "buffing" maps (mobs, bosses) is great....but i think it was discussed in others threads. It would be great for players that do have an "actual gear", for beginners or weaker players it would be nightmare.
xD
/11111