Feedback: Guild Rankings III

This is a continuation of the previous discussion on Guild Rankings (link).

The new rankings algorithm has been in effect for a while now, but I think we can get a bit more competitiveness from guilds if use the existing algorithm but we limited the guild rankings to seasonal characters only. The way things currently work, once character has achieved a high-enough contribution, the only thing they need to do to maintain guild rank is log in. Thoughts?

Additionally, what rewards, if any, would you like to see for top guilds?

Thanks in advance for your constructive feedback.

-ALS

As people already mentioned you can reduce the count of members cause 500 is a lot which kills competitiveness to me. I mean you are literally forcing people to stick in one guild by that actually.

On the other side liked the idea overall, well done. Keep it going.

Cap guilds at 25, 50, 100 or 150 Players (the smaller the better). Lately (last 2-3 years), I have seen an insane monopolization of older, newer, experienced, poor, rich, serious, just for fun Players and whatever else exists. I dislike the monopolization of about (my personal rough calculation, when taking alts into consideration, probably incorrect, lmk pls) 30-40% of the Playerbase are scattered in between 2-4 guilds. I see a few guilds who have 3k+ members, but are not on the top 50 guild leaderboard because they all are hundreds of days inactive.

Against the hundreds of days inactive i would like you to add a shadow leave system for players who haven’t logged in a while.

Shadow leave: After for example 200 days of inactivity the player X shows in the guildlog as shadow leave „X has vanished into the shadows“. When scrolling through the guilds memberlist, the character X wont show up and the guildmember counter also goes -1. When after 300 days of inactivity, the player X decides to return to the game and opens it. The guildlog will show „Player X has returned from the forgotten“. With this message being sent in the guild, the following interaction of Guildmembers between each other will most likely lead the player to check into the game more often from time to time. It is not appealing for a guild with 3000 members, that when u scroll through the (guilds of this size have lag) huge memberlist to only find maybe 40-50 active players. With this option guilds would not look as depressing when scrolling through the member list. Allow the guildmaster to have access to the shadowed guildmembers and to manage them.



The reason for smaller guilds:
With smaller stricted guilds, the guildleaderboard could offer some exclusive interesting rewards. It doesn’t make sense to have a top 50 guildleaderboard when only 20 guilds can be considered active. Rewards could be in form of titles, banners, badges, gold und much more. For example The top 50 guilds are all a title „Best guild in Arlor“ (or golden name as suggested in thread). The top 25 are getting the title + a badge, which resembles the logo of the Guild in aps. The top 10 are getting the title, the badge and a banner. The top 1 Guild of Arlor is getting for each player in the guild title, badge, banner and 1m Gold each. The 1m gold reward would make the guild lb system competitive and challenging. Guilds could have rankings, like for example the old lbs of pvp kills pve kills being active and so on. Maybe change them to not exploitable. Most aps, most online, most quests completed, most fishes caught in gh (fishing event), pvp matches against other guilds. Theres a lot of space to be creative. The guildrankings should reset every month and granting the rewards. Guilds above the member cap of above f.e. 50 members should automatically be excluded from this leaderboard.


Guilds are supposed to work together, so why not reward those who work together?
I am sure that a lot of Players would enjoy these features in the game.


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Drop the quantity over quality agenda in general. Mass recruiting guilds are nowhere near an actual top guilds nowadays. Redefine the statistics for them and put in place new rules to refresh the board.

Current new algorithm is bad, most of the top guilds are nowhere close to be top.
500 top aps is definitely way too much. 50 would be more reasonable. Also the other things that should be included in guild rankings are seasonal aps, timed maps, lb events, pvp, honor pvp, pve etc..

Maybe guild quest system? Guild masters have to do certain tasks for that week and when those tasks are completed they contribute points towards the guilds rank? You get bonus points depending on how fast you complete all the quests/tasks.

They can of course get help from anyone, as long as they complete their tasks.

Honestly, I just hope that devs can make a huge improvement in terms of reward, or maybe Guild Banner for the top 50? Still waiting for something huge from devs!

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Reminder, factors like pvp/pve were excluded cause couple of guilds exploited them. So it doesnt make sense to bring those back.
To make seasonals chars only count for guild lb is not fair. Why u wanna exclude old players from an upcoming rewarding lb? Not many are fans of running seasonals every season.
As i have mentioned in the past ,i agree with the commemt , that 500 charactets are to many for defining the result of ranking. We have 50spots in lb but only 4 guilds have more than 500 active members. The only way to make it more competitive is lower that number. U can collect the data of how many active characters log weekly to all guilds except those that alrd are part of 4guilds w 500+ active members.. How many guilds ca be filled with 500? My guess is less than 15. So u have total less than 20 guilds with max active members to be calqulated.
Note that any more factors u intent to add for ranking other than pure aps ,it will be exploited by script users. Ppl alwaus find a way. History has proved it.
Also about your thoughts for penaltising guilds for overpopulated, my opinion is that u cant have em remove members so they can be part of the lb. Let em be as large as they wish. On the other hand you should give a chance to guilds that prefer stay in small numbers to climb up on lb. Those must work harder anyway against guilds with more members. And here i come again on topic that max active members to be calculated should be lowered imo by 30-50%
Cheers

Personally for me and Alice.. we run the guild Villain and we didn't expect it to reach Top Guild Leaderboard.🫢

We actually prefer not to be on LB, but somehow we are in it with the small quantities of players that we have.

We won't leave our guild at all so I wouldn't mind if any changes happen that helps the other guilds that actually wants to compete in Guild Leaderboards.

Quality over Quantity is something I would recommend when considering ranks especially if it's going to revolve around being "competitive" though.

You can even give our Guild Rank to another guild that actually wants to be on a Guild Leaderboard since personally me and Alice and the rest of the officers in Villain don't care about the guild rank at all [emoji846]

Remove kdr deaths from calculations. It impedes one from daring a hard map or event, or being invited to a guild.

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Originally Posted by Oakmaiden

Remove kdr deaths from calculations. It impedes one from daring a hard map or event, or being invited to a guild.

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Kdr doesn't make any difference now. Only aps are calculated for guild lb.


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The current algorithm encourages people to join these Walmart guilds (massive but no quality). They spam camps to recruit and the guild chat is just merch spam. There is one Walmart guild with some known scammers as officers. But people continue to J because it is Walmart after all.

This needs to be changed. I love this quality over quantity ideas in this thread.

Whatever you can do to encourage smaller (25-50 players MAX) guilds to form would be so great for our community.

Give us some guild tasks. It would bring our community together!


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by papas

Kdr doesn't make any difference now. Only aps are calculated for guild lb.


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As far as I know, only pvp deaths aren’t calculated. Deaths from battles in maps/events still matter?

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Originally Posted by Oakmaiden

As far as I know, only pvp deaths aren’t calculated. Deaths from battles in maps/events still matter?

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No, it doesn’t. Check Guild section top 50 guilds.

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Originally Posted by Candylicks

The current algorithm encourages people to join these Walmart guilds (massive but no quality). They spam camps to recruit and the guild chat is just merch spam. There is one Walmart guild with some known scammers as officers. But people continue to J because it is Walmart after all.

This needs to be changed. I love this quality over quantity ideas in this thread.

Whatever you can do to encourage smaller (25-50 players MAX) guilds to form would be so great for our community.

Give us some guild tasks. It would bring our community together!


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Guild quests sounds great idea. They can add APs for it too.

+1

Keep current system but add things to it

How about organizing a weekly guild pvp tournament? Participants are the top 32 guilds. Randomly divide them into 2 brackets, and have them fight it out until the finals. Based on their rank in the tournament they get a bonus points.

EXAMPLE:

My guild has 10,000,000 points on guild LB. We get 1st in pvp tournament. Lets say at first place your guild gets 50% increase in points. Now my guild would have 15,000,000 on guild LB after tourney
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You could have this be Honor gear OR you could have two tourneys one with honor gear and one with normal gear.

You could have matches happen once ever day, since you only need to win 4 matches to reach the finals (32>16>8>4>2>1)

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Originally Posted by Neutrone

Keep current system but add things to it

How about organizing a weekly guild pvp tournament? Participants are the top 32 guilds. Randomly divide them into 2 brackets, and have them fight it out until the finals. Based on their rank in the tournament they get a bonus points.

EXAMPLE:

My guild has 10,000,000 points on guild LB. We get 1st in pvp tournament. Lets say at first place your guild gets 50% increase in points. Now my guild would have 15,000,000 on guild LB after tourney
________________________________

You could have this be Honor gear OR you could have two tourneys one with honor gear and one with normal gear.

You could have matches happen once ever day, since you only need to win 4 matches to reach the finals (32>16>8>4>2>1)

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I’m not adverse to some guild task/quest but to make it a pvp is a big nope

Too exploitable, also it again promotes a huge guild w alt dummies willing to flood games w alts to throw games

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Originally Posted by Stephencobear

I’m not adverse to some guild task/quest but to make it a pvp is a big nope

Too exploitable, also it again promotes a huge guild w alt dummies willing to flood games w alts to throw games

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Glad you bring this up

This is something I considered as well:

To prevent dummies from flooding your guilds games and sabotaging matches you have the Guild master preselect who gets to participate. Which makes sense because why let a random enter a guild match thats going to determine rank? The GM should have a say in who participates.

Another exploit I considered is a dummy guild being made to lose but:

Using current LB. You would need 50 alts with more than 36k APs each to qualify in the top 32.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Neutrone

Glad you bring this up

This is something I considered as well:

To prevent dummies from flooding your guilds games and sabotaging matches you have the Guild master preselect who gets to participate. Which makes sense because why let a random enter a guild match thats going to determine rank? The GM should have a say in who participates.

Another exploit I considered is a dummy guild being made to lose but:

Using current LB. You would need 50 alts with more than 36k APs each to qualify in the top 32.

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Any lb that has pvp as a factor in any way, can be exploited. I don't really understand your idea 100% about how guild master can select the oposite team? Ppl can change ign so u can't know who is who I guess.

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i will like top guild badge/ banners / aura players will actually use and wear

If you could create a misc system that works an make crafting a main mechanic for consumables like elix and so on needed for endgame performance in the game. guilds could become private markets where people can set missions for guild members that they will pay like mini quests for rewards.
(Like in anime)

It could help the guild masters and officiers to entertain the guild members and create some endgame content for the players.

Because dudes LOOTBOXES are not content it’s a MMORPG hack n slash not a gambling game. (Or may I be wrong)


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by papas

Any lb that has pvp as a factor in any way, can be exploited. I don't really understand your idea 100% about how guild master can select the oposite team? Ppl can change ign so u can't know who is who I guess.

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I didn't say guildmaster selects opposite team. I said the guild master preselects his teammates...

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Originally Posted by Candylicks

The current algorithm encourages people to join these Walmart guilds (massive but no quality). They spam camps to recruit and the guild chat is just merch spam. There is one Walmart guild with some known scammers as officers. But people continue to J because it is Walmart after all.

This needs to be changed. I love this quality over quantity ideas in this thread.

Whatever you can do to encourage smaller (25-50 players MAX) guilds to form would be so great for our community.

Give us some guild tasks. It would bring our community together!


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Ahahaha best description I ever read, definitely need to downsize the ap count criteria to something like 100-200 most active ig? I'm sure sts can see this better as they see the activity.
But I think no need to limit guild sizes if some want to have 1k alts in guild let them enjoy that.


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Maybe add a system where a certain number of guild members will be randomly picked by the RnG system to do a certain task/quest that they'll do for a week or month which will affect the total guild points/rankings based on their actions to the quests that they've done. (For example 100 members are randomly picked by the RnG system and they are tasked to do a guild quest which will be seen on guild task board; kill a certain amount of this and that etc etc)

I think this will add some competition to the guild rankings. Also I think, a guild badge for top 10 guilds will be an ok thing to add in game too.

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Originally Posted by nathan2693

Maybe add a system where a certain number of guild members will be randomly picked by the RnG system to do a certain task/quest that they'll do for a week or month which will affect the total guild points/rankings based on their actions to the quests that they've done. (For example 100 members are randomly picked by the RnG system and they are tasked to do a guild quest which will be seen on guild task board; kill a certain amount of this and that etc etc)

I think this will add some competition to the guild rankings. Also I think, a guild badge for top 10 guilds will be an ok thing to add in game too.

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the guild point ranking tallying will be like:

total achievement points of the 100 members selected by RnG system + the points that they made from clearing a certain task/quest for a week/weeks or a month

a special boss that can be found somewhere in arlor should be made too for guild task purpose. it should drop a loot too but it should only drop once so that it wont be exploited by many by helping a guild member on killing it

A guild badge should be rewarded for top 10 guilds as well i think for the hard work and effort that they poured on those guild quest

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Originally Posted by nathan2693

the guild point ranking tallying will be like:

total achievement points of the 100 members selected by RnG system + the points that they made from clearing a certain task/quest for a week/weeks or a month


a special boss that can be found somewhere in arlor should be made too for guild task purpose. it should drop a loot too but it should only drop once so that it wont be exploited by many by helping a guild member on killing it

A guild badge should be rewarded for top 10 guilds as well i think for the hard work and effort that they poured on those guild quest

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and for the special.boss loot (through guild quest), only members that are picked by RnG system can loot it. it should only drop once (either gold or a bound vanity) so that you guys wont run out of things too add on the boss loot quickly and have more time to brainstorm on what bound vanities should be added to this boss in the future.

Guild ranking should be based off of members' perfomance in game PvE and PvP wise.


PvE:
Adding a Raid system for guilds would be easy to monitor, (Deal the highest dmg possible to a boss in a specific span of time) all the damage dealt by members to this boss will count towards the final amount and to make things more balanced instead of spamming damage the deaths from members will count towards the total point sum as diminishing returns.


This should show how good a guild can perform PvE wise.


Of course rewards would come along this raid system.

Ill leave a link from a previous suggestion in case it makes the cut now. Given how "bad" players would simply be kicked out of the guild i only see it as a win-win situation

https://www.spacetimestudios.com/sho...82-Guild-Raids

PvP:
As for the PvP aspect the most imparcial thing i can think of is having a PvP tournament monitored by sts themselves altough i already see this not being a possibility due to lack of time/personal/etc.
To kind of restrict the amount of guilds to monitor, each guild willing to participate would have to pay a gold fee (helping with inflation a bit as well)
As for rewards i guess a vanity for the participants would be fitting.


Same as guild ranking measuring, player deaths would count as diminishing returns.


Others:

Activity log is the only thing that sounds logic to me for keeping as a measuring, level, aps, kdr dont pose an important factor since many players enjoy more twinking than endgame, aps have their own lb where everyone can throw in gold to be a part of and kdr is easily messed up by anyone willing to dummy farm

To ease up on point count towards Guild ranking having the points update every 3-4 weeks should be enough. (Raid live for 1 week, PvP Tournament 1-2weeks to distribute marches).


Rewards:

Title Colored (color chosen by GM), Seasonal Badge with the Guild's initials (Deviant Misfits=DM)

Lol walmart guilds with no quality, hilarious. The top 500 of Bellum are Higher in aps (achievements in-game for those unaware) than any other guild. Period. Its not Walmart, or wait, maybe it is. Cuz we have, everything available.
We have reasonable reqs, and help newer players and seasonals as well as everything else. Its why half of u plop a seasonal in Bellum or have an alt here to trade, or run events here when you need pts, because your 15-20 online cant compete with our 100+. You want to build a small count guild with your buds you do you. Nobody stopping you. But just like you prefer a small guild, we prefer a big active one where there are always opportunities. We should be discounted for our numbers? The last discussion on this went over all this already, we are beating a horse that is already across the finish line. And every guild has had over a year to adapt. As did Bellum. We didnt show up #1, we worked to get there. As did the other guilds over 500+ on lb in their ranks. You dont want that, your choice. You know how and choose not to. And try to bend the system by complaining to conform to what suits you personally. Lastly, almost every reply I see on here, has an alt in Bellum. Bet ya shop at walmart while you complain about it dont ya.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Candylicks

The current algorithm encourages people to join these Walmart guilds (massive but no quality). They spam camps to recruit and the guild chat is just merch spam. There is one Walmart guild with some known scammers as officers. But people continue to J because it is Walmart after all.

This needs to be changed. I love this quality over quantity ideas in this thread.

Whatever you can do to encourage smaller (25-50 players MAX) guilds to form would be so great for our community.

Give us some guild tasks. It would bring our community together!


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These guilds would be dead in a week. Nobody to answer questions nobody to help nobody to run pts with. It takes a fair size guild to be an active one dont you guys see that? Dead gc, unanswered questions, people being treated like nabs because they dont know something.. that will kill this game for new players so fast. People come to the bigger guilds because they are ACTIVE. Even a top five guild had like 15 players online. Yet they are top five. Nothing stopping y'all but air and opportunity if lb is a big deal for you

As for rewards to top tier guilds, change color of <guildname> to reflect top 5 top 10 and top 25 guild?.
Black top 5, gold top 10. Silver top 25

Quote:

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Originally Posted by asommers

This is a continuation of the previous discussion on Guild Rankings (link).

The new rankings algorithm has been in effect for a while now, but I think we can get a bit more competitiveness from guilds if use the existing algorithm but we limited the guild rankings to seasonal characters only. The way things currently work, once character has achieved a high-enough contribution, the only thing they need to do to maintain guild rank is log in. Thoughts?

Additionally, what rewards, if any, would you like to see for top guilds?

Thanks in advance for your constructive feedback.

-ALS

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The issue with this I see is. Your just encouraging hax. One of the reasons it works as it does is because it's too much work to rig rn at 500 players, for lb to be manipulated. Shrink it to a task, like making a seasonal, and viola, its twink heaven to 25k and start another. The current structure doesnt allow it to be rigged due to size.

Multiple guild LB systems, would solve all issues.
PvE LB (Raid system)
PvP LB (Guild PvP Ranked)
APS LB ( Top X- Amount)
Many other categories imo
Lowering amount counted only helps the og players with 70k APS. Seasonals would take away from mains and everyone scamming Walmart for APS.
Sincerely Walmart Officer 😀

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Originally Posted by Mr.Loucks

Multiple guild LB systems, would solve all issues.
PvE LB (Raid system)
PvP LB (Guild PvP Ranked)
APS LB ( Top X- Amount)
Many other categories imo
Lowering amount counted only helps the og players with 70k APS. Seasonals would take away from mains and everyone scamming Walmart for APS.
Sincerely Walmart Officer [emoji3]

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It would be ideal for those lb to come back (pve/pvp) but as history has proven it, they can be easily exploited. That's the reason they got removed.

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I honestly think that the guild lb ranking system needs a rework. Instead of adding all the aps, make an average of all players' aps. The way the old guild lb system used to function, was better than it is now. I'm not suggesting to bring all those categories back, bcs some of them were irrelevant, but still... quality over quantity ifykyk

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Originally Posted by scoburus

I honestly think that the guild lb ranking system needs a rework. Instead of adding all the aps, make an average of all players' aps. The way the old guild lb system used to function, was better than it is now. I'm not suggesting to bring all those categories back, bcs some of them were irrelevant, but still... quality over quantity ifykyk

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This has been suggested in the past and through debating proved to not be working ideally. Imagine a guild with 10-15 ppl from current lb. That guild would get a place among top 3 always if not rank1. For example High society at 43rank on current lb would get 43k aps average which is better than Bellum who has a 40k average.
I agree that the old system was much better, but sinse one or two guilds who desided to exploit it after all those years, was enough to make sts change it.

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