Elite XP! A temporary but possibly permanent end to a new Pl cap?

I don't think giving just a vanity to players who have 3pc is enough, the point of the ring is to give an advantage to the players who have capped 2-3times. You guys keep saying they haven't had the chance to cap 2or3 times, just like we haven't had the chance to cap 4-5-6 times. We decided to cap before and they didn't, it was there choice and now they are regretting it, unless they haven't started PL yet which is even worse.

If they were to implement something like this, they should only give the oppurtunity to the players who have played previous caps on that toon and that they have been capped 6months. Why 6months? Because it used to be 3months between every cap so I believe it would be fair enough.

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Originally Posted by Cheenivie

I don't think giving just a vanity to players who have 3pc is enough, the point of the ring is to give an advantage to the players who have capped 2-3times. You guys keep saying they haven't had the chance to cap 2or3 times, just like we haven't had the chance to cap 4-5-6 times. We decided to cap before and they didn't, it was there choice and now they are regretting it, unless they haven't started PL yet which is even worse.

If they were to implement something like this, they should only give the oppurtunity to the players who have played previous caps on that toon and that they have been capped 6months. Why 6months? Because it used to be 3months between every cap so I believe it would be fair enough.

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You misunderstanding something. There is no reason at all, for a player who already has a 3pc, to go and get elite I or elite ii. The vanity quest at the end of each one who just be a Lil something extra. Grinding 100k at bsm only, (no mega maze lol) is hard enough for many players. It makes no sense whatsoever for them to be capped 6 months. Players in nuris and fang etc, could have easily quit right after they capped, and came back back to the game in the next cap. It doesn't seem logical to have a 6 month wait period. If someone wants to grind 300k xp right after l75 for a 3pc, let them do it.

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This is just the syndrome "why do I NOT get something new since THEY do?!". Funny how many of us can't stand feeling that others will catch up, at least in case of elite rings. You are all forgeting, that this is nothing new. Why there is 5th cap already but only 3pc ring ha? Shouldn't those dedicated guys who capped 5 times grouse around like why dont we have 5pc ring? See, they didn't. Why not to accept that by capping earlier, we all got just TEMPORARE advantage, and now it's time to let others to reach it? Being better for year or more was pretty nice, wasn't it? Let's stop being selfish and stop saying "Pfff ok, give them 3pc but only if I get 6pc..." and rather be glad for others. Argryos already repeated our common view many times, don't force him to repeat those clear purposes again and again.

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Originally Posted by Swaggron

I agree, to some extent. If one player is skilled and the other is not but has a 3 pc ring, chances are that the other person will win.

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Agree too. I have seen many people without 3pc ring and they played very good in pvp or pve.
This thread is nice idea, but I would much better new maps and level 81. STS could done something in 1.5 year, even slow. I think they didin't even try.

To me, this whole discussion is about reasonable expectations. A couple of years ago, it was a given that new caps would keep coming. It was not a question of "if" but "when". If things were still that way, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Those without the special thing would simply wait a few months for new cap and then they'd get their chance to catch up. If they chose not to do it, they would have nobody to blame but themselves. This was a reasonable situation.

Now, the story has changed. It's very likely that those who missed out will never have a chance to catch up. Whether they chose not to cap and are regretting it or they simply joined PL in the last year and have never had the chance, they find themselves with no opportunity to compete with those who have been around a long time. But they can't just wait until their turn comes around; they're stuck this way forever. That is not a reasonable situation.

What we're grappling with is that the very design of these cap bonuses is flawed. Since it requires chaining 2 or 3 caps together, the will always be someone who misses out when the last cap comes. The only way to be "fair" to all is to have an infinite number of caps so there's always a catch-up chance. Since that's not possible, I think it's perfectly reasonable to figure out how to have an alternate mechanism in place so that it's not completely dependent on a "next cap". It was reasonable back when new caps were a given, but not now.

Arguing that "hey I had to do it x way, they should too!!" doesn't really make sense. The game has changed a lot, so why shouldn't this aspect change too? It makes for a better game if players who just joined recently have the same opportunity to compete as the veterans. If I were new and I learned that the game has special features that I have no chance to earn and therefore I will always be at a disadvantage, I would be much less likely to stay. Even if the disadvantage is small, I would resent it on principle. Everyone should have the same chance to try to compete to be the best.

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Originally Posted by Fusionstrike

To me, this whole discussion is about reasonable expectations. A couple of years ago, it was a given that new caps would keep coming. It was not a question of "if" but "when". If things were still that way, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Those without the special thing would simply wait a few months for new cap and then they'd get their chance to catch up. If they chose not to do it, they would have nobody to blame but themselves. This was a reasonable situation.

Now, the story has changed. It's very likely that those who missed out will never have a chance to catch up. Whether they chose not to cap and are regretting it or they simply joined PL in the last year and have never had the chance, they find themselves with no opportunity to compete with those who have been around a long time. But they can't just wait until their turn comes around; they're stuck this way forever. That is not a reasonable situation.

What we're grappling with is that the very design of these cap bonuses is flawed. Since it requires chaining 2 or 3 caps together, the will always be someone who misses out when the last cap comes. The only way to be "fair" to all is to have an infinite number of caps so there's always a catch-up chance. Since that's not possible, I think it's perfectly reasonable to figure out how to have an alternate mechanism in place so that it's not completely dependent on a "next cap". It was reasonable back when new caps were a given, but not now.

Arguing that "hey I had to do it x way, they should too!!" doesn't really make sense. The game has changed a lot, so why shouldn't this aspect change too? It makes for a better game if players who just joined recently have the same opportunity to compete as the veterans. If I were new and I learned that the game has special features that I have no chance to earn and therefore I will always be at a disadvantage, I would be much less likely to stay. Even if the disadvantage is small, I would resent it on principle. Everyone should have the same chance to try to compete to be the best.

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Agreed. Even the oldies could benefit from this idea tho. How? Rhinos and foxes were of course, were introduced during the big bsm update. Any oldie, could get an elite ring on those two classes as well, if they are up to it.

So what are your thoughts on the possibility of this system? Is it reasonable?

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Originally Posted by Argyros

You misunderstanding something. There is no reason at all, for a player who already has a 3pc, to go and get elite I or elite ii. The vanity quest at the end of each one who just be a Lil something extra. Grinding 100k at bsm only, (no mega maze lol) is hard enough for many players. It makes no sense whatsoever for them to be capped 6 months. Players in nuris and fang etc, could have easily quit right after they capped, and came back back to the game in the next cap. It doesn't seem logical to have a 6 month wait period. If someone wants to grind 300k xp right after l75 for a 3pc, let them do it.

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And there is something you're misunderstanding from my point. They gave this ring to players who reached elite cap 2-3times or more as an advantage, if they were to give it to players who didn't they would need to find an advantage for those players who capped 2-3times or more

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Originally Posted by Cheenivie

And there is something you're misunderstanding from my point. They gave this ring to players who reached elite cap 2-3times or more as an advantage, if they were to give it to players who didn't they would need to find an advantage for those players who capped 2-3times or more

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Well first off, sts isnt, "giving it to players." These players will have to work extremely hard grinding bsm for these rings. Just like you ground the xp out a fang to get your MFA. Except, they aren't getting MFA. They are just getting the ring. No, no, STS does NOT need to find an advantage for players who have capped in practically all caps since sewers, and have every elite vanity. Sts gave the elite vanities as a REWARD for grinding 100k xp! It shouldn't thought of as an advantage. The elite rings are just a more convenient way of showing off that you have grinded 300k+ xp, and that you deserve it. I can get some links for you. Read the Fusions post, I quoted it or you can read above.

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Originally Posted by Fusionstrike

To me, this whole discussion is about reasonable expectations. A couple of years ago, it was a given that new caps would keep coming. It was not a question of "if" but "when". If things were still that way, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Those without the special thing would simply wait a few months for new cap and then they'd get their chance to catch up. If they chose not to do it, they would have nobody to blame but themselves. This was a reasonable situation.

Now, the story has changed. It's very likely that those who missed out will never have a chance to catch up. Whether they chose not to cap and are regretting it or they simply joined PL in the last year and have never had the chance, they find themselves with no opportunity to compete with those who have been around a long time. But they can't just wait until their turn comes around; they're stuck this way forever. That is not a reasonable situation.

What we're grappling with is that the very design of these cap bonuses is flawed. Since it requires chaining 2 or 3 caps together, the will always be someone who misses out when the last cap comes. The only way to be "fair" to all is to have an infinite number of caps so there's always a catch-up chance. Since that's not possible, I think it's perfectly reasonable to figure out how to have an alternate mechanism in place so that it's not completely dependent on a "next cap". It was reasonable back when new caps were a given, but not now.

Arguing that "hey I had to do it x way, they should too!!" doesn't really make sense. The game has changed a lot, so why shouldn't this aspect change too? It makes for a better game if players who just joined recently have the same opportunity to compete as the veterans. If I were new and I learned that the game has special features that I have no chance to earn and therefore I will always be at a disadvantage, I would be much less likely to stay. Even if the disadvantage is small, I would resent it on principle. Everyone should have the same chance to try to compete to be the best.

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Originally Posted by ctf

What about the people who already have 2p or 3p...

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Why would you grind if you already have the 2p or 3p, this thread was strictly about people who doesn't have them.

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Originally Posted by Argyros

Well first off, sts isnt, "giving it to players." These players will have to work extremely hard grinding bsm for these rings. Just like you ground the xp out a fang to get your MFA. Except, they aren't getting MFA. They are just getting the ring. No, no, STS does NOT need to find an advantage for players who have capped in practically all caps since sewers, and have every elite vanity. Sts gave the elite vanities as a REWARD for grinding 100k xp! It shouldn't thought of as an advantage. The elite rings are just a more convenient way of showing off that you have grinded 300k+ xp, and that you deserve it. I can get some links for you. Read the Fusions post, I quoted it or you can read above.





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The reason they gave 3piece rings was also a gift for capping. I totally agree that others should have the chance to get 3piece rings but I still and will keep believing that players with 2-3piece rings should get an advantage over those players who only capped once because they were either too lazy to cap or weren't playing, it's kinda like founder, players want it but didn't play when it was handed out, it's a small advantage for the players who founded the game and I believe that if they implement your idea they need to give an advantage to the players who capped previously to make it fair to them.

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Originally Posted by Cheenivie

The reason they gave 3piece rings was also a gift for capping. I totally agree that others should have the chance to get 3piece rings but I still and will keep believing that players with 2-3piece rings should get an advantage over those players who only capped once because they were either too lazy to cap or weren't playing, it's kinda like founder, players want it but didn't play when it was handed out, it's a small advantage for the players who founded the game and I believe that if they implement your idea they need to give an advantage to the players who capped previously to make it fair to them.

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Hm, I see your point tho. But, the majority players aren't lazy, they just don't like leveling (I.e. LVL1) or they started late. (I.e half of the pl community) Founders was a really bad move imho. I'm OK with having the founders helm as just a vanity, but stats is to far. Basic rule that should've been implemented-
•Never program an item that has stats and cannot, at any point be obtainable.
Now, the perhaps the black dragon and l71 elites situation may be brought up. Well, these are not too problematic, just because they don't give you a huge advantage. (The gold dragon ring I've been told is similar to black drag ring) But... What sts should have done for the elite maps is this-
•Let anyone who capped in Humania, and wears the monarch helm, be allowed to enter the l71 elite map. Anyone who has the eye of eternity can enter the l76 elite map etc.Black drag is a different story but I won't delve into that here.
Anyhow, there is no good reason for the player who capped back in the day to have an advantage. As a fact, AbsolutePally capped 1st in the fang cap, he acquired the MFA, then quit. What if he suddenly came back and capped, should he have a advantage over us?

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If only STG would release a new cap....

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Originally Posted by Troncaat

That's true, but most people with 3 piece have been around for long enough to be pretty good.
But beating someone with a 3 piece is a lot more of an accomplishing feeling, rather than beating someone without one. Unless you just don't like the person. Atleast for me it is, so that's one thing I do enjoy about it.

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Originally Posted by Argyros

Yes you can, "just get better," but at a certain point you can't. You will lack the boost in stats.

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@tron Sure some people deserve it and do have skill but others do not.


What annoys me most is people hiding behind their rings and make it an excuse to berate and belittle fellow players. That isn't right or cool by any means and discourages people from playing end game pvp. Bragging about how you have been playing longer and received a 3 piece that pushes your stats well above and beyond those of an average player is no means for being a jerk. I have hosted games where I have faced people with 3 pieces and lost. Upon a new round they would take them off and I would win with flying colors. Birds, bears and Pallys I have faced. I will not name names and I'm not crying about rings because I don't have one but rather others behavior and attitude towards those who don't have them.


@argyos yes, precisely. People may win here and there vs those with increased stats but it comes down to luck and not so much skill at that point.

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Originally Posted by Cheenivie

....... Founders... it's a small advantage for the players who founded the game

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Founders is one thing and 3 piece is a whole different story. 3 piece isn't a small advantage over those with no rings/cap rings. It's a big advantage.

As a bear I'd love to have 880-900 hp 316-320 armor 48 dodge 109-122 hit%

but being a bear with no 3 piece I have 820-832 hp 304-308 armor 42 dodge (yes still high ik) and 102-106 hit%

those numbers vary with stats I've collected with bears of different builds, 3 piece, 3 piece and egg. That's why there is a range because with different builds and different rewards there is some variance.

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Originally Posted by Isopure

Founders is one thing and 3 piece is a whole different story. 3 piece isn't a small advantage over those with no rings/cap rings. It's a big advantage.

As a bear I'd love to have 880-900 hp 316-320 armor 48 dodge 109-122 hit%

but being a bear with no 3 piece I have 820-832 hp 304-308 armor 42 dodge (yes still high ik) and 102-106 hit%

those numbers vary with stats I've collected with bears of different builds, 3 piece, 3 piece and egg. That's why there is a range because with different builds and different rewards there is some variance.

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If I'm int, and I'm wearing 3piece, and I'm versing you, don't cry cause I'm wearing 3piece, I would say bears are still op against int mages with 3 piece even if you don't have any ring, you still have a platinum ring. And you can still crush me if you know how to play a bear. Other whys good luck :)

But when it comes to str, 3 piece pallies are tricky :3 bears on the other hand, with 3 piece, are unbeatable :( no chance for an int Mage unless you have a perfect ping and some luck, and have some experience versing bears

You should like it as a bear, that extra 6 dodge isnt all that much even though you have 42+ and a fair amount of health

Everything about this is great except for your ideals on the elite rings. If you didn't cap before, then you don't deserve it.

The new pets could still be used to show status as a truly hardcore xp grinder though

Make elite rings have no stat bonus in pvp. Let us see who the real pros are.

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Originally Posted by TEOKILLO

Everything about this is great except for your ideals on the elite rings. If you didn't cap before, then you don't deserve it.

The new pets could still be used to show status as a truly hardcore xp grinder though

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Sound's pretty hypocrytic Teo. Name some facts to support your statement please. Why do you seriously think, that the time "before" should be more important than present?

Do you feel, there was no other benefit for capping before? Let me name few and correct me if it's not reasonable:

L56: Long period with best statd crafted helm, opportunity of buying dingys to equip all later chars with CoP, one of the coolest looking items ever.

L61: Cool Shield of Hallows, opportunity to have vanity set bonus already, which means months of being advantaged.

L66: Beside Fang Armor and opportunity for 2pc or 3pc vanity set bonus, there was maybe the hugest gift ever, Leading legensd angelic gear for all classes and vanity version... dam isnt that far over enough??

L71: Acces as to Humania Elite dungeon to farm Twisters, Marlins and Blasters, so to Blacksmoke prewiev to get Elite quests, dragon pet rewards, exclusive elites and finally opportunity to barm black dragon...

To sum it up, I can see more than 2 years of enjoying different benefits, being elite etc. For sure, it was well deserved, no doubts. But as you mentioned, it was before. I don't think, that rings should be exclusive right for old players, really.

Btw it's funny how some say that 3pc isn't considerable advantage on the one hand, but right after they can't stand even smell of idea, that others will catch up.

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Originally Posted by Stevenmc

Make elite rings have no stat bonus in pvp. Let us see who the real pros are.

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Just cause you have 2pc nub :)) sarcasm

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Originally Posted by Jig

Just cause you have 2pc nub :)) sarcasm

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But that's an elite ring! I mean all of them haha. A just sets pvp. Everyone has the same stats! I pvp without my ring already a lot because when you beat someone without one, they say "ring :/". Then you take it off and beat them again and they say "lag" haha :)