Changes to Equipment Procs: Shared Equipment Cooldowns

I'll admit that a couple of years back I did not properly respect how disruptive the "proc stacking" meta would become in PvE. So far it has led to the creation of a 'best' class, driven a toxic between players and wrecked our plans for balanced content. I knew enough back then to keep it from further upsetting PvP but failed to correct the problem before it became part of how Warriors (and yes, others) view the fun-factor of combat.

I don't think it's the intention of Warrior class advocates but the negative comments underscore why this change absolutely needs to happen. Like every MMO game AL needs to promote class inter-dependence, not one independently superior class. I am committed to improving game balance and fixing the problems of the past. My intention is not to revert to 'rogue legends,' but to address inequities between my beloved classes.

Unfortunately, the first step down this path is this important change to the "proc stacking" meta.

Speaking from the perspective of someone who had come back after a long break and learned about proc stacking with like 4+ weapons:

I thought it was absurd and still do.

Think about it like this, warriors, the class with the most health and armour and a bunch of skills that are meant to keep them immortal + skills that are pretty much AoE are now capable of reaching 90k+ damage and tear through mobs and bosses like their cheddar cheese strips and some of you want people to believe that this is....fair? Listen, I can understand the outrage though, alot of the people complaining probably put a lot money into these sets but let's not act like this was OK. I will wait for what sts does with the new sets before I make a final opinion.

Also to the people saying to mages "Lol this affects you to" quit the BS. Despite being squishy mages have DoT, AoE, great crowd control skills AND one the best, if not THE BEST Ultimate for pve: Energizer. So yeah as far as pve is concerned they're not going anywhere.

My suggestion to make things more balanced/creative? Add new skills, add new masteries and and add new ultimates. If not rework old skills because some of them aren't as useful with the newer content we have.

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Originally Posted by Cinco

I'll admit that a couple of years back I did not properly respect how disruptive the "proc stacking" meta would become in PvE. So far it has led to the creation of a 'best' class, driven a toxic between players and wrecked our plans for balanced content. I knew enough back then to keep it from further upsetting PvP but failed to correct the problem before it became part of how Warriors (and yes, others) view the fun-factor of combat.

I don't think it's the intention of Warrior class advocates but the negative comments underscore why this change absolutely needs to happen. Like every MMO game AL needs to promote class inter-dependence, not one independently superior class. I am committed to improving game balance and fixing the problems of the past. My intention is not to revert to 'rogue legends,' but to address inequities between my beloved classes.

Unfortunately, the first step down this path is this important change to the "proc stacking" meta.

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+1

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Originally Posted by Boysetsfire

I can understand why you guys made this decision and even tho i am mage i guess it is what it is and we will go with that...

But the claim about balancing we all know its not truth cause there was almost never really a balance in pve...but anyway

Older times warriors could really support the team and was nessesary and helpfull in maps and warriors had their roles...warrior should be nessesary in maps to help u survive and not die....not one shot kill all mobs and also be invinsible..

Rogues supposed to be the damage dealers also nessesary cause without them u couldnt even kill a boss...but rogues in my opinion was always very buffed in armor and defensive skills and that shouldnt Be the case...

But mages??? What about mages?? What was our role in a pve map?
Stun mobs and crowd control?? So basically similar to warrios role of keeping team alive by stunning?
Full aoe damage maybe so basically good only for mobs??? I wouldnt mind that but was rarely the case that this happend...why a warrior not invite 3 rogues like they used to do and take a mage with them?

Shouldnt mage somehow buff the team with their skills to make mages nessesary??

Since like for ever that i play this game a party by warrior and 3 rogues could farm any map without problem and even faster most times...mage was almost never nessesary unfortunately except some very small periods that happend by either stacking procs or maps that had lots of hard mobs like how mauso used to be for example...

Anyways i really like this game and will continue and i dont want to sound salty...... but if its about balancing i think with some twicks in skills or maps or gears and different philosophy u guys could make every class needed in maps and have their role and be needed...

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Sorcerers are in the most desperate need of a rework. When we started developing the expansion the Designers only played as mages and had a really unhappy and difficult time. We got together and decided that Sorcerer really, really needs to be reworked to feel fun, powerful and distinct. Wasn't long after this that we realized that all three classes need to be broken apart and reassembled to support a longer view of Arcane Legends (a Level 100+ view). First phase of this rework is currently planned to hit with next season. Significant disruption to classes should start happening in the first part of next year.

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Originally Posted by Cinco

I'll admit that a couple of years back I did not properly respect how disruptive the "proc stacking" meta would become in PvE. So far it has led to the creation of a 'best' class, driven a toxic between players and wrecked our plans for balanced content. I knew enough back then to keep it from further upsetting PvP but failed to correct the problem before it became part of how Warriors (and yes, others) view the fun-factor of combat.

I don't think it's the intention of Warrior class advocates but the negative comments underscore why this change absolutely needs to happen. Like every MMO game AL needs to promote class inter-dependence, not one independently superior class. I am committed to improving game balance and fixing the problems of the past. My intention is not to revert to 'rogue legends,' but to address inequities between my beloved classes.

Unfortunately, the first step down this path is this important change to the "proc stacking" meta.

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Maybe need some strong effort to avoid warriors and mages will be left behind like it was 2 years ago.

And will be needed more effort than the one you put few years ago.


That said, into this proc thing, are included also the debuffs or the small buffs?

All the items that adds +1 main stat per mob killed, isnt a proc but a buff. Will those still work?

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Anyway, many wars will perceive this as a shot in the foot

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Originally Posted by Cinco

I'll admit that a couple of years back I did not properly respect how disruptive the "proc stacking" meta would become in PvE. So far it has led to the creation of a 'best' class, driven a toxic between players and wrecked our plans for balanced content. I knew enough back then to keep it from further upsetting PvP but failed to correct the problem before it became part of how Warriors (and yes, others) view the fun-factor of combat.

I don't think it's the intention of Warrior class advocates but the negative comments underscore why this change absolutely needs to happen. Like every MMO game AL needs to promote class inter-dependence, not one independently superior class. I am committed to improving game balance and fixing the problems of the past. My intention is not to revert to 'rogue legends,' but to address inequities between my beloved classes.

Unfortunately, the first step down this path is this important change to the "proc stacking" meta.

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Does this mean rogues will get a nerf?


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[QUOTE=Sulphurea;3662947]If that was addressed to me, which i hopefully doubt cause honestly who tf knows you lol lmk how you assume to know the level of my skills since we never ran together, maybe you are not a war afterall, you are a mage **

First of all apart for some wars, i dont think us wars ever discriminated against rogs. My spouse in game, my best frnd, they are all rogs and we have been farming to this day. It was more about ease rather than suitability that some wars preferred mages.
As for this thread, lets not turn on each other or classes.
This change would simply remove the incentive to buy multiple gears and it will hurt a lot of ppl who were banking on stats gears.
@Cinco I wd say this again, nerf the procs all u want, but dont remove the system or at least leave it be in 76 and lower maps. Can u imagine doing 1k greensnap or Frontier with just one wep proc.
For 81, yes we can indulge ourselves into this new sys where we all know wht we gotta do but if changed altogether, it ll be a mess esp for ppl who have spent like 300-400m in gears only.

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Originally Posted by Willl

Maybe need some strong effort to avoid warriors and mages will be left behind like it was 2 years ago.

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You are correct. And I would assert that the majority of the negative feelings about this (apart from the planned disruption of playstyle) is the belief that we're intentionally rolling class balance back to late 2018. This isn't our plan :-)

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Originally Posted by xsilentninjax

I'm sorry what? the critical remarks have been made with coherent arguments that suit the long-term impacts of the game.
You may be entitled to your opinion, sure. But disregarding under deaf ears is simply an ignorant act to the parts of the community, ain't that toxic?

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let's let the dev make/decide because they know what should be and what shouldn't be you want because everything is fast so you want stack all you want till 10/10 stack

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Originally Posted by Cinco

I'll admit that a couple of years back I did not properly respect how disruptive the "proc stacking" meta would become in PvE. So far it has led to the creation of a 'best' class, driven a toxic between players and wrecked our plans for balanced content. I knew enough back then to keep it from further upsetting PvP but failed to correct the problem before it became part of how Warriors (and yes, others) view the fun-factor of combat.

I don't think it's the intention of Warrior class advocates but the negative comments underscore why this change absolutely needs to happen. Like every MMO game AL needs to promote class inter-dependence, not one independently superior class. I am committed to improving game balance and fixing the problems of the past. My intention is not to revert to 'rogue legends,' but to address inequities between my beloved classes.

Unfortunately, the first step down this path is this important change to the "proc stacking" meta.

---

+1000000 agree

Justbad, you ran with Avy all time cause she is your spouse, that's wuite easy as once i replied to Avy in line chat. Me too back in festerfang expansion i had no trouble to run hydra even with 2 wars. We don't talk personal here, we talk about the trend. Trend is: let's exclude rogues cause **** them, "rogue legend" is over and other stuff like this. You know how many times i read "oh i prefer 3 mages". And no, i don't consider myself weaker than mage. My bf is mage and we supported each other always and he can tell you how mages die way before than me or deal less damage. But no, since they mage they get parties cause is just the trend. Ofc friends will party you no matter the class and that's how i kept up. But not everybody has friends or guild to support them

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Originally Posted by Cinco

You are correct. And I would assert that the majority of the negative feelings about this (apart from the planned disruption of playstyle) is the belief that we're intentionally rolling class balance back to late 2018. This isn't our plan :-)

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Obviously can't be intentional, but for players wait like 6 months for some fix that define better role of classes it is too much.

I know there must be lot of work behind it and requires time, but maybe would be more healthy for players and the game itself: fix, nerf, balance and adjust all together instead of destroying all with 1 click and then after few months think about a way to solve unbalance, which will automatically lead in some other dramas.


Maybe, if you want my advice, some sort of balance can be established sooner and trough the new map gears you will release (myth, arcane, set, spirit)

Back in 2013

War had high hp high armor low dmg
Rog had good dmg good armor low hp
Mage had high dmg good hp low armor


I think establishing those stats inside the new gears will not balance, but adjust a bit the gap between classes that got created when you decided to release gears with equal stats for all classes




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Thread closed thank you for all legends!


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Originally Posted by THE GOLDEN KING

Did they say they were going to enable hotbars in pvp again? Or able to switch gears during combat?


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No, but this system would be better in pvp then the one we have now.

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Originally Posted by capeo

No, but this system would be better in pvp then the one we have now.

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+1 if so.


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Last time i see warior always disagree to nerf this nerf that warior items/warior skill even though they are so powerfull that they do job/talent of rogue and mage so they run solo fast farm fast now warior want to nerf all just for the sake of proc stacking,
just sacrifice to nerf warior for proc staking and don't even touch the rogue and mage to nerf.

Removed same thing in every character class so we call it equal and balanced?
Should just make it equity nerf so everyone will be the same. But the truth is there will be in the bottom.

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Originally Posted by Cinco

Sorcerers are in the most desperate need of a rework. When we started developing the expansion the Designers only played as mages and had a really unhappy and difficult time. We got together and decided that Sorcerer really, really needs to be reworked to feel fun, powerful and distinct. Wasn't long after this that we realized that all three classes need to be broken apart and reassembled to support a longer view of Arcane Legends (a Level 100+ view). First phase of this rework is currently planned to hit with next season. Significant disruption to classes should start happening in the first part of next year.

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I don't know if we our to far into this game but I would suggest looking into a Talent Tree Rework for classes like other MMORPG's have Incorporated in past. This allowed for the Main Class Role and the option for a Secondary Class Role. Since I only play War an example. One part of the Talent Tree was Tank Class which included High HP, High Armor, Defensive Skills, Taunt Skills, But Low Dps. The other Talent Tree Path would be Berserker Class. Still decent amount of HP, DPS Burst Skills, DPS Buff Skills, Low Armor, No Taunt, and no Defensive Skills. I would love to see something like this that gives Classes options to choose between Primary and Secondary Class Role/Builds.

no one knows how the war users or war main feel now, so it's very easy to agree with others because they probably haven't been war users for a long time and even cinco won't feel the pain of our war users.

& I think 30% of ppl quit
& 50% for getting bored


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