What's Wrong With L.110 PvP

After testing with Mythic 1H str set, Wand set, and Bow set on all 5 classes and fighting against all classes with these sets, I have a few thoughts on what is wrong with L.110 PvP

- the hit% on all sets is way too high. Hit debuffs are absolutely useless. Blind is useless except for its damage. Hellscream is useless except for its stun. Should bears really be getting 245% hit with strength set? What about rhinos? Blind only knocks hit% down to 174%, well above 100%.

- most buffs don't matter at all anymore. Every class already has 100 crit unbuffed. Buffs like Rage only add a few dozen damage which doesn't matter at all when you're hitting 2600+ damage on autos and skills. You will still die in the same number of autos and skills. Defense buffs like Iron Blood hardly matter and only negate 100 dmg. As said before, the fight will result in the same if you use Iron Blood or do not because dmg is so high that 100 dmg negated here or there won't change a fight. Dodge buffs matter to an extent... but the dodge buff cap is still around 40% I believe. As stated before, negating 100 dmg here or there when you're getting hit for thousands doesn't change that you still die in 3 shots.

-Healing is abysmal... its absolutely terrible on all classes, but to be this bad on mage is somewhat insulting. A mage can heal for around 2k health which is 600-800 health less than a bear's auto attack. A mage can Drain Life for about 2600 on a good hit, which means they healed for one auto attack or skill. Because mage's heal heals for one big heal (1400) and then ticks for 150 over five more ticks, a mage cannot gain a big heal again (1400) until the final tick on the first heal has completed. Otherwise, if you try to use Heal the second time when the first Heal is still giving ticks of heal, you will only gain the five ticks from the second heal rather than the big 1400 Heal. For this reason, it can take 25 seconds or more to fully heal yourself as a mage, a class meant to maximize heal output. What's surprising is that rhino does not have this ticking problem and can continue to gain the big Heal even when the first heal is still providing ticks.

- Rhinos can two shot the majority of classes. I have found that birds can do next to nothing against rhinos because they die to Charge+Redemption and Repulse is too slow. Blind is absolutely useless against 245% hit and roots get negated by Guardian. No real way to stop rhinos.

- Wand set seems to be the weakest of all sets. Str set is top tier while bow set is still good but often has trouble against it, specifically rhinos and foxes. Bow set is built for birds with its range and combines well with repulse and roots. Wand set is in need of a defensive buff in exchange for an offensive nerf. The set isn't "bad" per se, but it still cannot compete with the likes of 1H Str set and Bow set on average. Birds who know what they're doing utilize range and do not let up on damage when they are fighting mages. Mages simply cannot heal off enough damage as explained earlier. This makes them die quite easily to birds unless using trees. Against Str set they die to rhino in 2 hits unless they shield which means they'll die in 3 hits usually. Wand set seems to be the most even vs Bears with 1h sword set and it's a toss up who wins based on if bears can pull and get in their slashes before being nuked/neutralized with ices.

- foxes (str) are finally competitive this cap, which is the one good thing about pvp I suppose. The fact that dmg output is so high and foxes have a dash skill to get on top of opponents makes them deadly and upper tier with rhinos but still a slot below rhinos because they lack a proper skill to negate rooting that rhinos have like Guardian... of course, foxes have Evade but it isn't as good as Guardian is, that's for sure. They also do not have the big quick heals like rhinos which means they fall a slot because of this.

- Bears are utterly useless if Beckon gets dodged because they cannot tank properly like their class is meant to do. However, if they do manage to pull you and get in slash range, consider yourself dead. Like Wand set, 1H str set needs a defensive buff in exchange for an offensive nerf.

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What needs to change:
- Hit% needs to be significantly reduced on all sets so that debuffs are actually useful in pvp again. One of the major reasons Rhino is so busted is because debuffs like blind, hellscream, etc. do nothing against the 245% hit - rhinos can still hit anything after being debuffed. Add to this the fact that Guardian protects rhinos against all rooting for 8 seconds and that's the reason why rhinos are so busted - they have no obvious weakness.
- Damage output needs to be reduced across the board.
- 1H sets need a damage nerf and a defense buff. This will make bears able to actually tank like a bear is supposed to without beckon stomping you to death with two skills.
- Possibly an increase on Mana Pool for Wand set. Right now the Mana Shield absorbs one auto/skill before a Mage is depleted of mana and cannot cast any more skills... thus the mage dies.
- Possibly an increase on the amount of armor that a level 10 Mana Shield will give you. 50 armor is absolutely useless when the damage output is this high. 50 armor has been useless for many caps now as well.
- Depending on what happens with damage output, health, and armor, Mages might need their healing increased. This goes for other classes as well, but mages the most. Heal does not do enough as it currently is in the game.
- I'm not sure what needs to be done with 2H sets like Bow right now. I think we need to see what happens first with a defensive buff and offensive nerf to 1H sets before doing anything to 2H sets.
- Regen needs to be increased across the board. Regaining 50 h/s on a set with 10k health is terrible... for perspective, it would take 200 seconds/over three minutes to regain to full health without using a heal skill.
- 1h sword and dagger set may need to have auto speed decreased depending on how PvP feels after these tweaks. 0.5 auto on Sword is too insanely fast, especially for a strength set, making classes like rhino overpowered even more.

endgame PvP has reached the point of no return unless the entirety of the endgame community decides to go 100 honour exclusively. Ive tried articulating why that is politely in a dozen different ways but all it really comes down to is that the new endgame community (90% of them) would get slaughtered game after game in 100 honour until they learn how to play.

No one new is going to abandon being OP for balanced pvp. Which means that until the entire pvp community decides they want to go to 100 honur, pvp is going to suck, unfortunately.

Theres also the fact that the PvE'ers get their way more often than the pvp community does, whether there are players to blame for that or not, it has ruined endgame pvp .. lol

cinco also doesnt seem to want to take the advice from people who have likely spent more hours involved in PL than he himself has
and unless he decides to listen to exactly what we say the people who make half arsed no effort threads crying about one set will get their wya until PL is dead

i use we as in the people who actually care about balance and not their kdr .-.

Yup, I can stand to all the suggested changes with L110 PVP after being there to try out these new mythical sets on every class for a few hours with Dolloway for the past two days.

These are pretty clear issues that stand out and should be taken as the first steps of many, especially the adjustments of hit% and buffs/debuffs (so that they can become useful) as well as healing which is currently pretty much near insignificant based on the health total as well as damage outputs of these L110 sets. 1H sets should definitely not deal more damage than the current 2H sets, but should rather be "tankier" and even more defensively built around when compared to 2H sets, hence the damage nerf and defense buff allowing classes that use 1H sets to tank as they should especially in a FFA or CTF environment.

It is too bad majority of those who are capped will most likely struggle acquiring a set, but being fortunate enough to own and try out PVP with these new L110 Mythical sets, I hope we can take an early step on helping out to make PVP and CTF a fun and worthy experience for this aspect within Pocket Legends when more players are able to both afford and aqcuire them in the future. (Hopefully not too far from now)

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Originally Posted by Dolloway

After testing with Mythic 1H str set, Wand set, and Bow set on all 5 classes and fighting against all classes with these sets, I have a few thoughts on what is wrong with L.110 PvP

- the hit% on all sets is way too high. Hit debuffs are absolutely useless. Blind is useless except for its damage. Hellscream is useless except for its stun. Should bears really be getting 245% hit with strength set? What about rhinos? Blind only knocks hit% down to 174%, well above 100%.

- most buffs don't matter at all anymore. Every class already has 100 crit unbuffed. Buffs like Rage only add a few dozen damage which doesn't matter at all when you're hitting 2600+ damage on autos and skills. You will still die in the same number of autos and skills. Defense buffs like Iron Blood hardly matter and only negate 100 dmg. As said before, the fight will result in the same if you use Iron Blood or do not because dmg is so high that 100 dmg negated here or there won't change a fight. Dodge buffs matter to an extent... but the dodge buff cap is still around 40% I believe. As stated before, negating 100 dmg here or there when you're getting hit for thousands doesn't change that you still die in 3 shots.

-Healing is abysmal... its absolutely terrible on all classes, but to be this bad on mage is somewhat insulting. A mage can heal for around 2k health which is 600-800 health less than a bear's auto attack. A mage can Drain Life for about 2600 on a good hit, which means they healed for one auto attack or skill. Because mage's heal heals for one big heal (1400) and then ticks for 150 over five more ticks, a mage cannot gain a big heal again (1400) until the final tick on the first heal has completed. Otherwise, if you try to use Heal the second time when the first Heal is still giving ticks of heal, you will only gain the five ticks from the second heal rather than the big 1400 Heal. For this reason, it can take 25 seconds or more to fully heal yourself as a mage, a class meant to maximize heal output. What's surprising is that rhino does not have this ticking problem and can continue to gain the big Heal even when the first heal is still providing ticks.

- Rhinos can two shot the majority of classes. I have found that birds can do next to nothing against rhinos because they die to Charge+Redemption and Repulse is too slow. Blind is absolutely useless against 245% hit and roots get negated by Guardian. No real way to stop rhinos.

- Wand set seems to be the weakest of all sets. Str set is top tier while bow set is still good but often has trouble against it, specifically rhinos and foxes. Bow set is built for birds with its range and combines well with repulse and roots. Wand set is in need of a defensive buff in exchange for an offensive nerf. The set isn't "bad" per se, but it still cannot compete with the likes of 1H Str set and Bow set on average. Birds who know what they're doing utilize range and do not let up on damage when they are fighting mages. Mages simply cannot heal off enough damage as explained earlier. This makes them die quite easily to birds unless using trees. Against Str set they die to rhino in 2 hits unless they shield which means they'll die in 3 hits usually. Wand set seems to be the most even vs Bears with 1h sword set and it's a toss up who wins based on if bears can pull and get in their slashes before being nuked/neutralized with ices.

- foxes (str) are finally competitive this cap, which is the one good thing about pvp I suppose. The fact that dmg output is so high and foxes have a dash skill to get on top of opponents makes them deadly and upper tier with rhinos but still a slot below rhinos because they lack a proper skill to negate rooting that rhinos have like Guardian... of course, foxes have Evade but it isn't as good as Guardian is, that's for sure. They also do not have the big quick heals like rhinos which means they fall a slot because of this.

- Bears are utterly useless if Beckon gets dodged because they cannot tank properly like their class is meant to do. However, if they do manage to pull you and get in slash range, consider yourself dead. Like Wand set, 1H str set needs a defensive buff in exchange for an offensive nerf.

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What needs to change:
- Hit% needs to be significantly reduced on all sets so that debuffs are actually useful in pvp again. One of the major reasons Rhino is so busted is because debuffs like blind, hellscream, etc. do nothing against the 245% hit - rhinos can still hit anything after being debuffed. Add to this the fact that Guardian protects rhinos against all rooting for 8 seconds and that's the reason why rhinos are so busted - they have no obvious weakness.
- Damage output needs to be reduced across the board.
- 1H sets need a damage nerf and a defense buff. This will make bears able to actually tank like a bear is supposed to without beckon stomping you to death with two skills.
- Possibly an increase on Mana Pool for Wand set. Right now the Mana Shield absorbs one auto/skill before a Mage is depleted of mana and cannot cast any more skills... thus the mage dies.
- Possibly an increase on the amount of armor that a level 10 Mana Shield will give you. 50 armor is absolutely useless when the damage output is this high. 50 armor has been useless for many caps now as well.
- Depending on what happens with damage output, health, and armor, Mages might need their healing increased. This goes for other classes as well, but mages the most. Heal does not do enough as it currently is in the game.
- I'm not sure what needs to be done with 2H sets like Bow right now. I think we need to see what happens first with a defensive buff and offensive nerf to 1H sets before doing anything to 2H sets.
- Regen needs to be increased across the board. Regaining 50 h/s on a set with 10k health is terrible... for perspective, it would take 200 seconds/over three minutes to regain to full health without using a heal skill.
- 1h sword and dagger set may need to have auto speed decreased depending on how PvP feels after these tweaks. 0.5 auto on Sword is too insanely fast, especially for a strength set, making classes like rhino overpowered even more.

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Feel like a majority of these issues can be negated with buffing skills. Level 10 skills are outdated, and I feel like many skills on each class need to be adjusted accordingly to balance. For example, as you mentioned above dollo, birds blind and bears hellscream are rendered useless. -70% hit for blind isnt good enough at this lvl considering how high everyones hit is. Hell scream should be buffed by reducing players damage and hit% adjusted for 110 myth pvp. Archers still have a useless meditation skill and I feel like this needs to be replaced with a new skill. The issue with all 2h sets still persists, being that their damage is no competition to 1h as I stated in previous threads.

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Originally Posted by SuperGotenks

Feel like a majority of these issues can be negated with buffing skills. Level 10 skills are outdated, and I feel like many skills on each class need to be adjusted accordingly to balance. For example, as you mentioned above dollo, birds blind and bears hellscream are rendered useless. -70% hit for blind isnt good enough at this lvl considering how high everyones hit is. Hell scream should be buffed by reducing players damage and hit% adjusted for 110 myth pvp. Archers still have a useless meditation skill and I feel like this needs to be replaced with a new skill. The issue with all 2h sets still persists, being that their damage is no competition to 1h as I stated in previous threads.

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Perhaps. I just wonder what the effect on Honor pvp would be like. Buffing skills could totally imbalance it.

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Originally Posted by Dolloway

After testing with Mythic 1H str set, Wand set, and Bow set on all 5 classes and fighting against all classes with these sets, I have a few thoughts on what is wrong with L.110 PvP

- the hit% on all sets is way too high. Hit debuffs are absolutely useless. Blind is useless except for its damage. Hellscream is useless except for its stun. Should bears really be getting 245% hit with strength set? What about rhinos? Blind only knocks hit% down to 174%, well above 100%.

- most buffs don't matter at all anymore. Every class already has 100 crit unbuffed. Buffs like Rage only add a few dozen damage which doesn't matter at all when you're hitting 2600+ damage on autos and skills. You will still die in the same number of autos and skills. Defense buffs like Iron Blood hardly matter and only negate 100 dmg. As said before, the fight will result in the same if you use Iron Blood or do not because dmg is so high that 100 dmg negated here or there won't change a fight. Dodge buffs matter to an extent... but the dodge buff cap is still around 40% I believe. As stated before, negating 100 dmg here or there when you're getting hit for thousands doesn't change that you still die in 3 shots.

-Healing is abysmal... its absolutely terrible on all classes, but to be this bad on mage is somewhat insulting. A mage can heal for around 2k health which is 600-800 health less than a bear's auto attack. A mage can Drain Life for about 2600 on a good hit, which means they healed for one auto attack or skill. Because mage's heal heals for one big heal (1400) and then ticks for 150 over five more ticks, a mage cannot gain a big heal again (1400) until the final tick on the first heal has completed. Otherwise, if you try to use Heal the second time when the first Heal is still giving ticks of heal, you will only gain the five ticks from the second heal rather than the big 1400 Heal. For this reason, it can take 25 seconds or more to fully heal yourself as a mage, a class meant to maximize heal output. What's surprising is that rhino does not have this ticking problem and can continue to gain the big Heal even when the first heal is still providing ticks.

- Rhinos can two shot the majority of classes. I have found that birds can do next to nothing against rhinos because they die to Charge+Redemption and Repulse is too slow. Blind is absolutely useless against 245% hit and roots get negated by Guardian. No real way to stop rhinos.

- Wand set seems to be the weakest of all sets. Str set is top tier while bow set is still good but often has trouble against it, specifically rhinos and foxes. Bow set is built for birds with its range and combines well with repulse and roots. Wand set is in need of a defensive buff in exchange for an offensive nerf. The set isn't "bad" per se, but it still cannot compete with the likes of 1H Str set and Bow set on average. Birds who know what they're doing utilize range and do not let up on damage when they are fighting mages. Mages simply cannot heal off enough damage as explained earlier. This makes them die quite easily to birds unless using trees. Against Str set they die to rhino in 2 hits unless they shield which means they'll die in 3 hits usually. Wand set seems to be the most even vs Bears with 1h sword set and it's a toss up who wins based on if bears can pull and get in their slashes before being nuked/neutralized with ices.

- foxes (str) are finally competitive this cap, which is the one good thing about pvp I suppose. The fact that dmg output is so high and foxes have a dash skill to get on top of opponents makes them deadly and upper tier with rhinos but still a slot below rhinos because they lack a proper skill to negate rooting that rhinos have like Guardian... of course, foxes have Evade but it isn't as good as Guardian is, that's for sure. They also do not have the big quick heals like rhinos which means they fall a slot because of this.

- Bears are utterly useless if Beckon gets dodged because they cannot tank properly like their class is meant to do. However, if they do manage to pull you and get in slash range, consider yourself dead. Like Wand set, 1H str set needs a defensive buff in exchange for an offensive nerf.

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What needs to change:
- Hit% needs to be significantly reduced on all sets so that debuffs are actually useful in pvp again. One of the major reasons Rhino is so busted is because debuffs like blind, hellscream, etc. do nothing against the 245% hit - rhinos can still hit anything after being debuffed. Add to this the fact that Guardian protects rhinos against all rooting for 8 seconds and that's the reason why rhinos are so busted - they have no obvious weakness.
- Damage output needs to be reduced across the board.
- 1H sets need a damage nerf and a defense buff. This will make bears able to actually tank like a bear is supposed to without beckon stomping you to death with two skills.
- Possibly an increase on Mana Pool for Wand set. Right now the Mana Shield absorbs one auto/skill before a Mage is depleted of mana and cannot cast any more skills... thus the mage dies.
- Possibly an increase on the amount of armor that a level 10 Mana Shield will give you. 50 armor is absolutely useless when the damage output is this high. 50 armor has been useless for many caps now as well.
- Depending on what happens with damage output, health, and armor, Mages might need their healing increased. This goes for other classes as well, but mages the most. Heal does not do enough as it currently is in the game.
- I'm not sure what needs to be done with 2H sets like Bow right now. I think we need to see what happens first with a defensive buff and offensive nerf to 1H sets before doing anything to 2H sets.
- Regen needs to be increased across the board. Regaining 50 h/s on a set with 10k health is terrible... for perspective, it would take 200 seconds/over three minutes to regain to full health without using a heal skill.
- 1h sword and dagger set may need to have auto speed decreased depending on how PvP feels after these tweaks. 0.5 auto on Sword is too insanely fast, especially for a strength set, making classes like rhino overpowered even more.

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The little time I did play 110 PvP I found mages to be the best thing. People overlook how absolutely destructive drain is so they will think it's not as good when it's low, this is good. I can't speak against bears or foxes as I've yet to face any but I can for mages and rhinos.

With that being said rhinos are actually easy to beat as a bird if you knew what you was doing. Nerfing hit won't do anything against it because of Vital, their hit% buff. Even if we made hit 100% it's not going to truly effect them. As for killing them repulse is still super effective. While 4pc rhinos are indeed a challenge I still believe the best against them will be a good talon set.

As a player who uses a elite Talon set rhinos are completely Broken at this point even while using the 1h sword set. Don’t get me started on mythic set. I refuse to use the 2h bow due to the lack of damage which I don’t recall 1h having more damage than 2h, maybe with enchants but as base stats go..no. I’d Like to see a buff in this case. And as far as heals go it’s absolute horrendous as dolloway says.


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Originally Posted by MageFFA

The little time I did play 110 PvP I found mages to be the best thing. People overlook how absolutely destructive drain is so they will think it's not as good when it's low, this is good. I can't speak against bears or foxes as I've yet to face any but I can for mages and rhinos.

With that being said rhinos are actually easy to beat as a bird if you knew what you was doing. Nerfing hit won't do anything against it because of Vital, their hit% buff. Even if we made hit 100% it's not going to truly effect them. As for killing them repulse is still super effective. While 4pc rhinos are indeed a challenge I still believe the best against them will be a good talon set.

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I disagree with everything you just said except maybe about the Drain Life part.

Drain Life can be destructive, but it's just not as great when damage output is this high and armor/health isn't strong enough. The main problem is probably the heal output from regular Heal, which heals less than one auto. With health creeping higher and higher each cap, this was bound to happen. The Heal we currently have (as with the majority of buffs/debuffs, etc.) are all very outdated this cap as Super said.

Have you tried Mythic vs Mythic bird vs rhino? Elite sets are a different thing because the damage output is less on those sets (remember that mythic shields give 2000 damage). A single charge redemption combo will kill the bird everytime unless they dodge. The added armor from Talon set will likely not be enough, as is the case with Wand set's armor not being enough to withstand the combo from rhinos as well.

You said that you didn't try pvp for that long. If you have not done so, I urge you to borrow a Mythic str set from a guildmate or something and try rhino for yourself to see how it is. Likewise, I think you should do the reverse and try Mythic bird against Mythic rhino to also see how birds fare. It's not as simple to beat rhinos as just using repulse. I don't know how you can possibly say a Mythic str rhino is "easy to beat". They have the highest health, armor, and their dmg output is so high that they kill in two hits the majority of the time.

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Originally Posted by Dolloway

I disagree with everything you just said except maybe about the Drain Life part.

Drain Life can be destructive, but it's just not as great when damage output is this high and armor/health isn't strong enough. The main problem is probably the heal output from regular Heal, which heals less than one auto. With health creeping higher and higher each cap, this was bound to happen. The Heal we currently have (as with the majority of buffs/debuffs, etc.) are all very outdated this cap as Super said.

Have you tried Mythic vs Mythic bird vs rhino? Elite sets are a different thing because the damage output is less on those sets (remember that mythic shields give 2000 damage). A single charge redemption combo will kill the bird everytime unless they dodge. The added armor from Talon set will likely not be enough, as is the case with Wand set's armor not being enough to withstand the combo from rhinos as well.

You said that you didn't try pvp for that long. If you have not done so, I urge you to borrow a Mythic str set from a guildmate or something and try rhino for yourself to see how it is. Likewise, I think you should do the reverse and try Mythic bird against Mythic rhino to also see how birds fare. It's not as simple to beat rhinos as just using repulse. I don't know how you can possibly say a Mythic str rhino is "easy to beat". They have the highest health, armor, and their dmg output is so high that they kill in two hits the majority of the time.

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I tested myth bow bird vs str rhino. So far it's easy to beat for me but for others like wise. Players would have to understand rhinos main skill to know how to beat them. I've seen some of my guildies get crapped on by rhinos yet I come close to 10-0ing the player. It's all just different skill sets. Charge doesn't kill in 1 shot so you have plenty of time as a bird to finish them before they can tempt or red.

As for Healing. Yeah. It wasn't really a good idea to take away higher heals for instead a heal overtime. I said during 105 cap that it's flawed and makes single heal classes weak while making actual heal classes more broken, especially rhino since they already have a basic heal overtime in the form of +regeneration on restore. A single rhino will heal for 300hp then get a extra 200 health per second heal while also having 100+ some GO regen from restore. Super flawed.

After testing current meta with max enchantment stats involved I can say that things are very much different. 4pc Str set does indeed need a nerf. A single near max 4pc Sword set has 1k more damage than a MAX ENCHANTED BOW AND OVER 2k the armor. Tag enchants on and you're left with a tanky 4pc Sword set with .5 speed and a aoe effect, sword range seems to also be boosted. This is too broken. A max bow set does 1.6, 1.8 maximum, on a 4pc Str set. While 4pc Str set does 2.6, 2.8k max, against a bow bird.

Once you add the fact that sword is .5 friggin speed you are left with the world's best tanky dagger...but str and aoe.

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Originally Posted by MageFFA

After testing current meta with max enchantment stats involved I can say that things are very much different. 4pc Str set does indeed need a nerf. A single near max 4pc Sword set has 1k more damage than a MAX ENCHANTED BOW AND OVER 2k the armor. Tag enchants on and you're left with a tanky 4pc Sword set with .5 speed and a aoe effect, sword range seems to also be boosted. This is too broken. A max bow set does 1.6, 1.8 maximum, on a 4pc Str set. While 4pc Str set does 2.6, 2.8k max, against a bow bird.

Once you add the fact that sword is .5 friggin speed you are left with the world's best tanky dagger...but str and aoe.

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Yep...

After asking Quality if I could personally fight his Mythic bird with my Mythic rhino in order to see just how "easy" rhinos equipped with the Str set are to beat as he previously claimed, Quality found out that they are not easily defeatable. As it currently stands, rhinos equipped with the Str set are near invincible.

Now there are several problems as to why this is as I've stated before, but Ebonthrax Sword having 0.5 auto speed is definitely one of the major problems. You can get 2 autos per second off on any opponent you Charge and the Charge damage renders before the Charge skill is complete.

Add the best set in the game (Str) which has 4.2k armor, almost 11k health, 245% hit, 11300 damage, and 0.5 auto speed that 100% crits onto a Rhino's skill set (particularly Guardian which protects rhino against any weaknesses such as roots as well as rhino having 4 big heals) and you're left with something that is near invincible.

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Originally Posted by Dolloway

Yep...

After asking Quality if I could personally fight his Mythic bird with my Mythic rhino in order to see just how "easy" rhinos equipped with the Str set are to beat as he previously claimed, Quality found out that they are not easily defeatable. As it currently stands, rhinos equipped with the Str set are near invincible.

Now there are several problems as to why this is as I've stated before, but Ebonthrax Sword having 0.5 auto speed is definitely one of the major problems. You can get 2 autos per second off on any opponent you Charge and the Charge damage renders before the Charge skill is complete.

Add the best set in the game (Str) which has 4.2k armor, almost 11k health, 245% hit, 11300 damage, and 0.5 auto speed that 100% crits onto a Rhino's skill set (particularly Guardian which protects rhino against any weaknesses such as roots as well as rhino having 4 big heals) and you're left with something that is near invincible.

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Charge only renders when from far away when they are stunned. A useful function to make up the ability to not be able to fight at range. So far this is more gear exploit then a class one. Entire stats needs to be balanced because the next big thing will be str fox then str bear.

Extremely well thought out post, appreciate the work. I’ve tried using full enchant str and int set on bird/bear/mage and nothing even comes close to being a fair match to str rhino. Don’t know if I’m beating a dead horse here, but would be nice to hear if there is a patch in the works.

Rhino frequntly can kill my wand mage before I can get off A simple combo. Looking forward to some much needed rebalancing so I can hop back in an enjoy some 3-3 games.

A very thorough and in depth thread regarding PvP as always Dolloway.

I do not envy the mammoth task that STS have regarding balancing end game PvP.

What has to be considered is each time a tiny tweak is done here and there it not only affects the current level that is being addressed but all levels globally down the line as well as honor pvp maps.

I do hope players understand this, and think about how difficult this is for STS, the effects of balances on sets. But this might also impact on PvE as well.

Please do be patient and assist STS to make PvP enjoyable for you.

Suggest little things in particular , place emphasis on what one or two small changes are vital. If you make a huge list of what needs to be changed it is very overwhelming and it makes it very difficult to change anything at all.

Most of all offer solutions to each issue. If you see a problem, point it out, give examples why this is a problem and offer a solution.

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Originally Posted by Fwend

A very thorough and in depth thread regarding PvP as always Dolloway.

I do not envy the mammoth task that STS have regarding balancing end game PvP.

What has to be considered is each time a tiny tweak is done here and there it not only affects the current level that is being addressed but all levels globally down the line as well as honor pvp maps.

I do hope players understand this, and think about how difficult this is for STS, the effects of balances on sets. But this might also impact on PvE as well.

Please do be patient and assist STS to make PvP enjoyable for you.

Suggest little things in particular , place emphasis on what one or two small changes are vital. If you make a huge list of what needs to be changed it is very overwhelming and it makes it very difficult to change anything at all.

Most of all offer solutions to each issue. If you see a problem, point it out, give examples why this is a problem and offer a solution.

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These are all very good points to look at but realistically we are only talking about tweaking the endgame sets just ever so slightly. Adding more armor or taking some dmg away. It really won’t impact pve or other lvls at all

Great feedback! I agree that the sword and dagger speeds are too fast. Also agree that the sets (especially Mythical) are contributing too much with respect to damage, armor, crit, hit, and not enough in terms of regeneration. I'm going to add some additional structure to the way these bonuses are applied so that we have more flexibility to address PvP imbalance issues in the future. Should be ready in time for an update this week.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cinco

Great feedback! I agree that the sword and dagger speeds are too fast. Also agree that the sets (especially Mythical) are contributing too much with respect to damage, armor, crit, hit, and not enough in terms of regeneration. I'm going to add some additional structure to the way these bonuses are applied so that we have more flexibility to address PvP imbalance issues in the future. Should be ready in time for an update this week.

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You reduced dagger dps by 33% in pve, as part of a pvp rebalance. Ugh


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Cinco your commitment to our needs is amazing, I can not tell you enough how much we appreciate that you care.

Regarding these recent changes. I feared some would effect pve or other levels of pvp and honor. I accept that this is the nature of a re-balance.


Regarding the changes in speed of weapons.


Here are some examples of Weapons in previous caps.

Dagger one (1) handed

Lustrous Dagger of Earthen Fury (Level 77)
165-168 damage
0.4 Speed

Volta's Dagger (level 105)
845-885 Damage
0.5 Speed


Talon one (1) handed

Hawken's Talon (level 105)
845-855 Damage
0.8 Speed


Bow two (2) handed

Lustrous Bow of Earthen Fury (level 77)
246-286 Damage
0.7 Speed

Arothraxis (level 105)
1002-1502 Damage
0.9 Speed


Sword one (1) handed

Lustrous Blade of Earthen Might (Level 77)
203-208 Damage
0.8 Speed

Tyben's Sword (Level 105)
875-905 Damage
0.6 Speed


Sword two (2) handed

Lustrous Greatsword of Earthen Might (Level 77)
316-351 Damage
1.3 Speed

Zaelwyn (Level 105)
1362-1812 Damage
1.3 Speed


Wand one (1) handed

Lustrous Wand of Earthen Energy (Level 77)
190-215 Damage
1.0 Speed

Eloia's Wand
925-985 Damage
0.6 Speed


Staff two (2) handed

Lustrous Staff of Earthen Energy (Level 77)
249-293 Damage
0.8 Speed

Wyzamiro (Level 105)
1181-1631 Damage
0.9 Speed



From past caps and weapons the speed ranking of weapons are as follows

Speed of weapons
1. Dagger
2. Wand & 1 handed sword
3. Talon
4. Staff & Bow
5. 2 handed sword

With this analysis, Cinco please reconsider reverting the speed of the dagger to what it was previously.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MageFFA

I tested myth bow bird vs str rhino. So far it's easy to beat for me but for others like wise. Players would have to understand rhinos main skill to know how to beat them. I've seen some of my guildies get crapped on by rhinos yet I come close to 10-0ing the player. It's all just different skill sets. Charge doesn't kill in 1 shot so you have plenty of time as a bird to finish them before they can tempt or red.

As for Healing. Yeah. It wasn't really a good idea to take away higher heals for instead a heal overtime. I said during 105 cap that it's flawed and makes single heal classes weak while making actual heal classes more broken, especially rhino since they already have a basic heal overtime in the form of +regeneration on restore. A single rhino will heal for 300hp then get a extra 200 health per second heal while also having 100+ some GO regen from restore. Super flawed.

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Do you even pvp?
Yes you do

Im sry sir, i thought u are someome else

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I see more in honors than myth nowadays. myth is beyond broken just don’t do anything to ruin honors. Until next cap! 🙂 Also (Cinco agrees sword and dagger autos are too fast but how am i going to a 13m bow that hits for 3.8k dmg per auto including the 12m skills bird has close enough to even auto once with a sword or dagger)