I think the best solution would be to buff those Dex items that are just too weak to use in pvp but would be great on birds if they were buffed (i.e. Shivering Autobow, Bayou Bow). Like Burningdex said, if birds had an xbow with good speed and damage, they could better combat other classes like mages since they wouldn't have to step inside closer range like 8-10m as often and could rely on kiting in an efficient manner.
Precisely!Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolloway
11
I pretty much main bird in 35 now. I'm 50 STR Rest dex. From my knowledge and experience so far it's not just the dmg on dex weapons but mostly low skill stats and outdated debuffs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolloway
-30 Hit is irrelevant now. I've personally debuffed a mage with Max blind(-30 Hit) and 2 stacked Forg Bow proc(15 stacked twice so 30) that's-60 hit that you would think makes a difference but it doesn't. Bird needs more than a buff in DMG.
experimenting with bird builds, again. 6blind is a necessity, the max hit% is 84, 6 blind brings them down to 54, meaning roughly a 1 in 2 to miss drain, light and fire. It's not irrelevant, it just isn't as good as it was 3 years ago. It is still a necessity, which subtracts from damaging skills, unfortunately.Quote:
Originally Posted by MageFFA
It should be increased to at least 60. So far everything is good about bird outside of weak Damage on skills and gear. StS buffs that and add more Dodge to evasion and GG.Quote:
Originally Posted by burntoutdex
0 Post from Cinco, 0 replies from cinco, all the PMs are being ignored, yet the 105 pvp thread gets a decent amount of replies. Seems like lower level pvp community is just being ignored at this point lol
Cinco's focus has been almost entirely on endgame because that's where most of his revenue comes from. He hasn't been shy in stating that.
If he could come up with a plan to both make money and 'balance' lower level pvp at the same time by making something like a level 1 stat weapon along with a helm and armor to make a set that ranks up over time (or making scaled stat weapon sets at levels 1, 10, 20, 30, 40), then perhaps he would implement it. I actually wouldn't be surprised to see something like this implemented by the end of the year.
With that said, stat weapons/sets have never been 'balanced'/'skillful' to use, so I doubt this would make lower level pvp any better. However, this is the most likely course of action Cinco would take to change lower level pvp if it does indeed receive any updates.
I understand the revenue part and how he's trying to "balance" 105 more, but I don't see why that process of balancing endgame should negatively impact the lower level pvp. I have read other past comments, but it all seems to narrow down to "Leave lower level pvp and come to upper level pvp". I also heard that there is apparently going to be a bear buff? Even though it is still unsure whether he's going to buff the STR sets or just the bear class overall, but if he's rooting towards buffing the bear class overall, that will be an overkill for other classes. Also, if Cinco is actually trying to make changes in PVP, he should at least try it out himself and see if a specific class needs a nerf or a buff with several other admins, but it only seems like the major changes occur based off of players' requests. Players' requests are class biased and what I mean by that is that if a specific player is a long-term bear player, then it will mostly be the case that they would request for buffs towards the bear class and same goes for other classes.
Not to degrade the Pocket legends admins, but when it comes to other games and buffing / nerfing something in-game, the admins would usually test it out themselves or gather statistics to see if it is valid to make the changes in game. Here, I don't see that going on and as stated above, if the buffing / nerfing becomes player biased, the already unstable imbalance will deteriorate while the admins apparently hope for "balancing" the game. I hope you are understanding what i mean by this. If the admins actually tested it out themselves and cultivated data charts, then it will be reasonable for them to decide the buffing / nerfing process.
So, what makes Pocket Legends so superior to other games that they don't officially test out all the classes / different level zones and change things based off of players' requests? Is it the unique feature of PL to simply alter things in game without further tests themselves?
Strict user testing would be a dream but unfortunately, there's got to be sufficient staff to actually do that and it seems like Cinco's running a one man show here. For good reason, the Legend games just don't bring in enough revenue to justify additional hiring and additional testing. It would be interesting to see a community based user-testing system if Cinco would be willing to consider that, where all feedback comes from the users in a test client. I would love to help in that regard. Why not just reset damage and stats back to previous levels where it was slightly more balanced and less nuke/dodge/crit based? Like have a cut-off at level 35 where under level 35, skills and PvP are at pre-2016 levels, and where over 35 (since there's a lot less twinking going on up there, and there's also the existence of the PURE STAT weapons which are pretty unbalanceable.) the numbers remain the same as they are now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jyuu1205
Try joining the discord chat and pm/talk to cinco. He's on from time to time and asks people for input on certain matters. He has stated that endgame is the focus, but maybe you guys can nudge him to focus a little bit more on the low lvl pvp side. Cinco is amazing nonetheless. He's been 1 manning updates and has been interacting with us pretty frequently. Gotta give credit where credit is do
Birds, if used right, can out-play any class. Rhinos rely more on their nuke damage rather than countering other classes' combos. Rhino's are definitely at the bottom of the food chain. But again back to what i said, it all depends on how experienced you are with the class. In my opinion, to become an elite PvP player is to know what exactly your skills do to your opponent and figuring out what the best combo to use. You have to be able to utilize your skills and combos to put yourself in an advantage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jyuu1205
I highly recommend playing bird at L.30-40, It takes a good bird to counter one. The crows are on the rise!
Birds most definitely cannot outplay mages without dodging at least drain,light or fire; which doesn't happen every time. Sure, i agree, they can outplay other classes; but there's no way a bird would consistently beat an equally skilled mage, it's just how it is at the moment.Quote:
Originally Posted by zaorago
I really hope you aren’t serious
It would be nice for Cinco or someone else to reply to a two week old thread about a prevalent issue in game
Twinking? I don't know if I'd call that a legit "issue."
Twinking Is another major aspect of the game rather you choose to acknowledge this or not. If you and the rest of the game Developers never had the intentions of this 8 years ago then you wouldn't have made a leveling system, especially not for PvP. Playing PvP below Endgame is mostly a majority while endgame is just a small band of Players who choose to go this route. At the end of the day some if not all still enjoy the old stuff and would never care much about the new.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cinco
Indeed Endgame is new content that brings in revenue but you can't forget the stuff that came before it. If items like Forgotten Bow, Toy Man, Paws, Evis ect were to go on sale right now who'd know how much cash would be made in a single day. <------Warning Dont do this.
Hi, I have an idea, maybe it might be useful for players who did not like it very much, the ammys update, how about having rooms with ammys use options or not? or perhaps for everything to be balanced, only the rings of Plat would be used ... that for Me becomes Everything balanced in pvp 30-40 I hope that at least us of this Option, because it is too sad to take a Fire and a drain and die with two hits! help us make everything fun for everyone! This is only a suggestion.
Great insightGreat insight. Keep it up. I'm an advocate for change and like the direction your going towards.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jyuu1205
Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
READ TO THE END
PROMOTING SKILLED PLAY by OverkillED
I haven’t played PL in about a year or two or whenever 81 cap was but here’s my 2c on the issue. Coming from a player whose twinked at all level brackets from 1-71 (except 61-66). I might be slight biased cuz i main bird/fox (classes that thrive on fast paced pvp)
MY MAIN POINT: Based on what jun described: fast paced pvp. It’s a good thing. Trying to kill someone for 5 min isn’t fun. Fast paced pvp should be retained with some tweaks.
Now I’m going off on a tangent here so what i say might seem a lil disorganized. Try to hear me out here. This is some background info.
GEAR, LEVEL VS. SKILL
Fast paced pvp with high dmg was what the game was pvp wise before GCD, before and during forg era. Now fast paced pvp is good because it allows most if not all classes to thrive. There’s not as much rock paper scissors involved it’s simply whose faster and who uses their skills the right way. It makes gear less of a factor. Raising defenses and prolonging fights makes pvp based on min-maxing and stats (whoever has better numbers has a GREATLY higher chance of winning) When gear is a huge factorthe poorer players and newer players are severely disadvantaged. High dmg makes level less of a variable. Before the great nerf of dmg post forg my 55 bird would dispatch with 61 sang birds. It wasnt easy but because i was very experienced I could outskill and outspeed these birds. After the nerf i had 0 fighting chance vs them just because statistically their advantage on me was way greater. When this happens, people move up in levels. Say i go 56 or 61. Id get clapped by 66s with no chance of fighting back. And keep moving up till endgame, where LEVEL AND GEAR are less of factors cuz most people have the same stuff.
DIVERSITY
This is something that made the game really fun. Int birds, str birds, str mages, and every imaginable spec in between could do well because high dmg (pre forg pre nerf). Having different ways to play the same class spices things up rather than having a rock paper scissors game. A fast paced pvp game allows this (trust me I tried int/str enchanted staff bird with fort for regen and it worked pretty well before the base dmg nerf). Yes, inherently, some classes counter each other but the counter and variables such as level and gear should not be the “END ALL BE ALL,” meaning it shouldn’t have such an overpowering influence on the outcome of the fight. People pvp to showcase skill vs. each other, not showcase whose got a fatter wallet. Fast paced pvp is good for the game.
MY SUGGESTIONS
Nerf gear (but buff underused gear to increase diversity such as xbows and stuff). This makes gear and therefore level less of a factor. It’s still a factor but not as huge of one as it is now.
Put a high level req on 3pc and amulets. We dont need steroids. Nuff said. It doesn’t feel organic and also deters new players because they are statistically disadvantaged (by A LOT).
To compensate for the massive dmg loss of losing 3pc and amulets in low level pvp, buff base dmg of skills across the board. “But Overkill, this is gonna screw endgame over!” No it’s not. Nerf gear at endgame to compensate for the damage increase in skills.
So why base dmg? Well this gives everyone high dmg to retain the fast paced playstyle while also weeding out items that are basically stat steroids. The best and wealthiest pvpers will still have an advantage over new players because skill and being able to min-maxing their chars. It just won’t be as... oppressive as it is now.
Props to you if you read till the end. Imo what I said above would basically revert PvP to the way it was in 2011 where the skilled players shined and newer players were not completely oppressed and had somewhat of a fighting chance. This in turn lets new players want to stay and grow their skills ——> how pvp communities are formed. (Promotes skilled play instead of geared play)
READ TO THE END
I haven’t played PL in about a year or two or whenever 81 cap was but here’s my 2c on the issue. Coming from a player whose twinked at all level brackets from 1-71 (except 61-66). I might be slight biased cuz i main bird/fox (classes that thrive on fast paced pvp)
MY MAIN POINT: Based on what jun described: fast paced pvp. It’s a good thing. Trying to kill someone for 5 min isn’t fun. Fast paced pvp should be retained with some tweaks.
Now I’m going off on a tangent here so what i say might seem a lil disorganized. Try to hear me out here. This is some background info.
GEAR, LEVEL VS. SKILL
Fast paced pvp with high dmg was what the game was pvp wise before GCD, before and during forg era. Now fast paced pvp is good because it allows most if not all classes to thrive. There’s not as much rock paper scissors involved it’s simply whose faster and who uses their skills the right way. It makes gear less of a factor. Raising defenses and prolonging fights makes pvp based on min-maxing and stats (whoever has better numbers has a GREATLY higher chance of winning) When gear is a huge factorthe poorer players and newer players are severely disadvantaged. High dmg makes level less of a variable. Before the great nerf of dmg post forg my 55 bird would dispatch with 61 sang birds. It wasnt easy but because i was very experienced I could outskill and outspeed these birds. After the nerf i had 0 fighting chance vs them just because statistically their advantage on me was way greater. When this happens, people move up in levels. Say i go 56 or 61. Id get clapped by 66s with no chance of fighting back. And keep moving up till endgame, where LEVEL AND GEAR are less of factors cuz most people have the same stuff.
DIVERSITY
This is something that made the game really fun. Int birds, str birds, str mages, and every imaginable spec in between could do well because high dmg (pre forg pre nerf). Having different ways to play the same class spices things up rather than having a rock paper scissors game. A fast paced pvp game allows this (trust me I tried int/str enchanted staff bird with fort for regen and it worked pretty well before the base dmg nerf). Yes, inherently, some classes counter each other but the counter and variables such as level and gear should not be the “END ALL BE ALL,” meaning it shouldn’t have such an overpowering influence on the outcome of the fight. People pvp to showcase skill vs. each other, not showcase whose got a fatter wallet. Fast paced pvp is good for the game.
MY SUGGESTIONS
Nerf gear (but buff underused gear to increase diversity such as xbows and stuff). This makes gear and therefore level less of a factor. It’s still a factor but not as huge of one as it is now.
Put a high level req on 3pc and amulets. We dont need steroids. Nuff said. It doesn’t feel organic and also deters new players because they are statistically disadvantaged (by A LOT).
To compensate for the massive dmg loss of losing 3pc and amulets in low level pvp, buff base dmg of skills across the board, except the overpowered ones like Jun mentioned. But Overkill, this is gonna screw endgame over!” No it’s not. Nerf gear at endgame to compensate for the damage increase in skills.
So why base dmg? Well this gives everyone high dmg to retain the fast paced playstyle while also weeding out items that are basically stat steroids. The best and wealthiest pvpers will still have an advantage over new players because skill and being able to min-maxing their chars. It just won’t be as... oppressive as it is now. Skill based PvP is based on speed and ability to adapt, imo.
Props to you if you read till the end. Imo what I said above would basically revert PvP to the way it was in 2011 where the skilled players shined and newer players were not completely oppressed and had somewhat of a fighting chance. This in turn lets new players want to stay and grow their skills ——> how pvp communities are formed.