Remove CTF Flags Achivement and LB's

[gundamsone]

-The issue-
A large portion of Public games now are run by players from certain guilds. Why's this a problem?

They often call in guildmates to help which in a sense creates an unfair playing field because random games should be random right?...or should it be 5 guildies maxed out vs a bunch of randoms put together. The outcome is clear before the match even begins.

But the bigger issue is the golden rule for some of these pro guilds..."do not attack a guildmate in pvp", which ends up turning into a heavily 1 sided game where YOUR OWN teamates are watching you die and doing nothing to help you.
Just wait a second why on earth would they do that?...The answer is, it's because these guilds are so populated now there's often players from the same guild on both sides.

We are all aware CTF games are locked after certain number of flags are scored so to fuel this problem even further, the random side can no longer acquire new players.
Now the opposing side has several options,
- call in guildmates to uneven the playing field and increase their chance of survivability
- call in guildmates on the opposing side "come in our game free flagging"

Because Season 5 is near, people are cramming for last minute AP points and as a regular pvper i've noticed a heavy increase in:
- "If you can't beat em, then join em"...resulting in the boost in new recruits for these "big" guilds
- the amount of games dedicated to help these guildmates "flag" while the rest suffer
- the amount of ganging on a random player that joins the game while your teamates are unwilling to help
- the increasing amount of trash talking in these games... yes it's easy for winners to talk big but there's really no need to further provoke players when it's 5v3?5v2?5v1?

Why do they do this?
The most obvious answer is no one likes to lose. Who wouldn't love to play on the side with a 99% win rate.
The next obvious answer is for hungry hungry AP points.
But do these players consider how much they're effecting the game play experience for the randoms?

-The Proposal-
1. Remove CTF Flags leaderboards and achievements.

2. Split CTF games into official and non-official
Official games would be purely random, and no friend or guildie can join you.
Non-official games would have both kills and flags disabled but the option for players to join you via friends or guilds list would be enabled.

3. Remove Name & Guild Tags, so opponents would have a harder time distinguishing who on the other side is friendly and who to pick off.

4. Upon entering the game, each side will be equipped with identical outfits to further eliminate the problem in #3.

5. Eliminate the ability for others to join your game via friends/guilds list...& enable the game to remain open and not locked so new players can join and fill spots.

6. Remove the ability to PM any player on the opposing side. Now why on earth would you have a conversation with the enemy right?

7. Auto-boot players if they're inactive for over a 60 seconds.

-The Result-
My educated guess is many of these players, "using" these guilds for their own benefits will leave. While the rest will enjoy CTF for what it is.
I ask anyone out there, if this game bores you when half the team on each side is standing on the flag circle waiting for the next flag to pop up.

Ultimately, the game play experience for these random players is somewhat ruined because of this.
I challenge any big guild out there to argue this one out and I also politely ask these pvp guilds to abolish the "do not attack guildmates" rule.
If you join a side, you're obligated to help that side PERIOD.

Thanks for the read and please keep the posts constructive.
I would really love to hear people's experiences and their opinions on this issue.

*Based on the feedback so far, a mixture of the proposals listed above would hopefully create a more friendlier, enjoyable & competitive PVP environment*

Photo Collection *mostly self explanatory*

Serra flagging to 4 on our side with no help to our team. Ramyun/Iron freely letting him flag meanwhile farming the rest of us.
Easy kills for blue, easy flags for Serra...win win situation for the pros.

[Trenton]

I also made a "less detailed" thread about this a few weeks earlier I think it's simply wrong, because some of these guilds actually kick you if you accidentally kill a member, and it's quite annoying. All they're doing is farming flags, and if you have, say 8 guildies at the same level, 5 can join one team, 3 join another and then 2 randoms join. Those 2 randoms are at a 2v5 because of that "No guildie killing" rule. It's childish and I'm pretty sure no one actually likes this rule, they just go with it to, like you said, get the AP points. It's annoying and needs to be stopped.

[katish]

I am opposed to not killing guildies as well - the arguement is that it creates drama between guildies, which for me is just nonsense. If you are one of those who get bummed about being killed by a guildie, leave the match. If you stay you're most likely getting killed, that's just part of the game.

Personally I try to go along whatever is going on when I join a match, so I'll enjoy the carnage or the flagging or the 1x1 whatever the majority is doing. What I don't like is having 1 astray player just running havoc when everyone else in the match has agreeed to one thing. It's just rude.

But I digress...

So, this is one reason I don't pvp with all my toons, don't want any guild drama... and also because I suck at pvp

[Roberto077]

Fun fact: randoms are really a dead gopher lying on a keyboard

[Robhawk]

If you join a PvP game then kill the enemy and its the same if its a guildy or not!
There are a lot of even good players who never join teams to make them even, i could post names but i dont! This ends up in: 4 vs none or 4vs1 or 4vs2 and the 2 leave after the first 2 or 3 kills... and yes i leave games when getting ganged, you will not get an easy frag from my side.
On the other hand there are a few players who join to make it even, mostly warriors, f.e oksert.
Also yesterday there was a TDM i joined red after that 3 others also did. In the blue team Chrismaker played alone and died several times... nobody joined and he even didnt complain! So i send him friend request, he accepted and i left the game to rejoin him on the blue side. So it was a 2on3 and finally we won 20 to 19! gg - singing off!

[Cero]

yea, like the "no join botton to friend/guild" which was already suggested long before.
wish STG(former STS lol) add more content or do those great pvp suggestions.

K/D - also one of the reasons why pvp is messed up. People might say "kdr doesnt matter" but most of this good PvP are quitters. prolly cos they love or wants to protect their kdr so much. I know many of them lol. quit after couple of deaths or when their team got wipe out in the first lol. clash, Quittters also makes the match go for 4/3/2/1 VS 5.

if theres no kdr then people would prolly wont be bothered being killed,ganged,farmed or whatsoever. just pure pvp.



Flaggers - is also one way of helping the team... to win that is

[Puntus]

I remember when I was flagging and love was in other team, u kill me to help ur friend gravescar to get flags, u make me laugh with this thread, u re an arrogant player , cause of this the people didnt wanna join in your team and they wanna kill u, u cant make this thread because u did the same as all players. I like play with my friends in pvp, its more fair, and I like the hard battles vs eos or classics, u cant make this battles because u re a solitary player.
Im not mad with u Love , but this thread its unfair for the people who farmed a lot of flags with hard work. Its my opinion , all opinions re respetable.

[gundamsone]

they need to implement stricter rules and possible warnings for players who
A. don't help their team
B. flag and do nothing else
C. afk in a game

I know for a fact that in League of Legends, they issue account suspensions if you afk alot in a game, both ranked and unranked games.
And cero no one cares about "winning", people flag for the AP points.
Real winning is killing the other team more than they kill you...well for me at least.

[gundamsone]

I remember when I was flagging and love was in other team, u kill me

If you're on the other team, then I kill you

...to help ur friend gravescar to get flags

he wanted flags, and I can't force him not to flag can I?

... u re an arrogant player

I disagree really. Deaths in pvp is natural and players who die shouldn't rage at the player that kills them.

... people didnt wanna join in your team and they wanna kill u

true

...u cant make this thread because u did the same as all players

O yes I can make this thread b/c i'm a solo PUG player

...and I like the hard battles vs eos or classics, u cant make this battles because u re a solitary player

You like dying 10 times a minute? with 0 chance of killing anyone?

Im not mad with u Love , but this thread its unfair for the people who farmed a lot of flags with hard work

You sound mad at me tbh and it is fair b/c some of the players with 10k+ flags either,
A. farmed them hard at a very low level
B. ruined 100's of games for others b/c all they did was flag and nothing else

I got close to 5k flags legitly and I never joined a guild to abuse them for easy flags.
The achievements are do-able without ruining the game for everyone else.

Do you know how many games I join and before the game even starts players from the other side say "flagging don't kill me"
You know what I respond to those players? "nty"
My response gets me hated but i'm just playing the game. I don't let no one get free flags and neither should any of my teamates but these days i'm having trouble when my own teamates are against me.

[Puntus]

Ok, I respect ur post obviously , and its obvious u can make this post, sure, and my battles vs classics and eos, I farm more kills than deaths , we won more than lose, but thats not the point.
And what about the players who have another character and farm kills fastly? Thats more unfair.
My opinion: its unfair for players like u or me, if sts remove kills and flags achievement, because we farm it with fair and hard work.
And im not mad with u.

[gundamsone]

Ok, I respect ur post obviously , and its obvious u can make this post, sure, and my battles vs classics and eos, I farm more kills than deaths , we won more than lose, but thats not the point.
And what about the players who have another character and farm kills fastly? Thats more unfair.
My opinion: its unfair for players like u or me, if sts remove kills and flags achievement, because we farm it with fair and hard work.
And im not mad with u.

You really gotta give me some better arguments to convince me the PVP leaderboards worth keeping.
You see for the other leaderboards, they're PVE based so you can abuse the monsters all you want b/c they have no feelings at the end of the day.

Yea farming yourself is unfair but I kind of understand why it's not against the rules right now b/c when you're farming yourself, you're not ruining the game experience for another player.
The current #1 leaderboarder for CTF achieved her feat within a few days so I guess there's nothing wrong with if your going by the rule book.

So in the end many players play PVP for achievements, banners, and to keep a good record so people can go wooooo and ahhhhhh.
I think what STS' original intention was for players to enjoy themselves in the game while racking up some kills, flags, achievements and banners on the side as a small reward for the amount of time put in.

[Robhawk]

I think what STS' original intention was for players to enjoy themselves in the game while racking up some kills, flags, achievements and banners on the side as a small reward for the amount of time put in.

this.

[Puntus]

You really gotta give me some better arguments to convince me the PVP leaderboards worth keeping.
You see for the other leaderboards, they're PVE based so you can abuse the monsters all you want b/c they have no feelings at the end of the day.

Yea farming yourself is unfair but I kind of understand why it's not against the rules right now b/c when you're farming yourself, you're not ruining the game experience for another player.
The current #1 leaderboarder for CTF achieved her feat within a few days so I guess there's nothing wrong with if your going by the rule book.

So in the end many players play PVP for achievements, banners, and to keep a good record so people can go wooooo and ahhhhhh.
I think what STS' original intention was for players to enjoy themselves in the game while racking up some kills, flags, achievements and banners on the side as a small reward for the amount of time put in.

Agreed with all, nothing to reply

[Alhuntrazeck]

Love, I completely agree about that flagging bit, when they go 'flagging don't kill me' I go over aand start hitting em. Sure I'll die (we all know mages suck vs. warriors) and Ofc I'll get told 'Fk u Alhun noob mage and stuff like that...but I just cant stand the idea of letting an opposing team member flag to his hearts content without getting hurt.

Then there are the full mythics with Arcane stuff...if u hurt em they'll farm u all through the match, they act like they own the game...if removing the flag lb at the very least will stop this I'll be glad.

However, there are many who worked hard to get onto the flag lb through legit means, without any protection assumptions. Removing the lb would remove their hard work so there must be another way out. Perhaps reducing the number of flags a single User could have in one game?

Sent using scattered leaves on a windy day.

[Zeus]

Trust me, I get what you mean. It happens to me all day, everyday because I am not in a PvP guild either.

It's an issue that truly needs to be fixed because when I first joined PvP and didn't know what I was doing, I felt rather nooby when it was 5v1 and I had no chance to win.

[Chili]

I can't say I agree with this. If you have an issue with not finding someone to pvp with.. Then join a guild that enjoys pvp or make your own.

As far as any quitter comments, ill come right out and say I quit many games due to imbalanced teams... It would just be crazy to continue dying when all odds are against you.

I do agree though with better team placement... Meaning only 3 slots are open per team until both teams hit 3... Then they open up the rest. Although this will not keep people from quiting and making it 5/1... It will keep the game from starting off that way.

[inkredible]

All i hear is blah blah blah. guilds are made to help out, if you have a problem with it, simply quit pvp blah blah blah

[inkredible]

Trust me, I get what you mean. It happens to me all day, everyday because I am not in a PvP guild either.

It's an issue that truly needs to be fixed because when I first joined PvP and didn't know what I was doing, I felt rather nooby when it was 5v1 and I had no chance to win.

leave the game! get into the next room

NOOOOOOOO PROBLEM

[gundamsone]

All i hear is blah blah blah. guilds are made to help out, if you have a problem with it, simply quit pvp blah blah blah

i'd expect a more constructive post coming from you.
why don't we all join the big guilds out there and have many tea parties in CTF

leave the game! get into the next room

NOOOOOOOO PROBLEM

next room is filled with guilds too? what to do?

and you know it's hard for people to see their own mistakes when they've been apart of a big guild for such a long time.
try soloing for a week and you'll get what we're facing

[gundamsone]

hulk heres a prime example for you.
Happened just now in my last ctf game.

Our side was winning pretty hard so someone on the other side quit right?
In came a user from the guild classics. He came in and first thing he said was "im flagging don't kill me"

I asked the person to help their team out knowing we'd have a harder time. But why on earth would I not enjoy my free kills in a 5v4 while the other opponent just flags for the next 10minutes?
You know why? b/c I felt horrible for the other 4 players who were taking the beating so that 1 player could get 5 more flags added on to their record.

He pmed me after and gave me 2 reason why he didn't assist his team.
A. B/c our side had 2 classics members and he was forbidden to attack them.
B. He didn't care about the game and just wanted flags.

Honestly, pvp more these days, come back and tell me you're not seeing this 7 out of 10 games you enter.