As iluvataris said, you don't have to use sp, as, and nox.
As iluvataris said, you don't have to use sp, as, and nox.
Rogues had kraken. Warriors had nordr. Sorcerer have shuyal. Its the sorcerers turn. Stop complaining about your OP rogue that you want to make even more OP and face it. You dont see sorcerers making threads like this about our low health, so why should you have one about your mana? Just put some stat points into intellect or put skill points into intellect passive. There, problem solved!
Lol,turns up to be a rant..hehe..IMO..open everyone's mind and a constructive feedback is much appreciated...yes,rougues can use mana pets...yes,rougues can titrate some stat points to int...yes,rougue can still kill even with damage nerf...yes,u must be thrifty enough to use your skills for not to waste it but if u think of this,as i have mentioned above, DAMAGE NERF means lesser dmg output,means more MANA consumptions and with higher mana COST,mana will be depleted very fast even being thrifty as much...even before,rougues have this issue even with full int passives thus what more with the damage nerf.
Mages can have pure int without even bothering to put dex passive and rather spend to other passive such as crit( but i personally use dex on my mage).
Warriors can have pure str without bothering to put int passive or a dex passive (perosnally i use,lols)
But with this damage nerf,it gears us toward using mana pets instead of main pet,gears us toward putting some stats other than dex(which i dont) .
With action or without action from sts,its fine...
This is actually for evryone but the thing is,it turns out to be only a rougue concern because only the rougue doesnt have mana regen..sorcerer have lifegiver and vengeful for warrior..
Ultimately, for purposes of farming, Rogues are still the best for fast runs, but the costs are staggering.
Whereas, Sorcs and Warrors spend the bulk of their costs on HP pots and occasionally mana, Rogues go through both....fast!
Prior to this season, it seemed I was buying pots in an almost 1:1 ratio between HP and Mana. This season, it has gone 1:2, so I am now spending twice as much on mana as I did earlier.
Can I still run maps quickly....well, yes, maybe not quite as fast with the DMG hit, but still very fast indeed. The difference is that I am now burning through more mana than ever before, and on the Shuyal maps, I use a lot of HP pots too because Rogues don't have shielding.
From a pure 1v1 search and destroy point of view, Rogues are still the best; it is after all, what this class was designed to do. But without crowd control, shielding, and mana healing, the weaknesses of the class has really been exposed.
Instead of viewing everything in the vacuum of who does the most damage, think of this from a cost perspective. If your costs go up by 30-40% because you consume more pots than last season, then farming has a lower return. Same theory goes for PvP. If it takes more skill rotations to kill an opponent, then the return on your mana pool is lower as well.
I think that we can all agree that a Rogue without mana is in a heap of trouble. So, if the increase in mana from lv31 to lv36 is minimal, but the percentage of your pool that is spent to kill an opponent goes up by 30% (which is a realistic figure), then you will be able to attain fewer kills prior to being killed yourself. Yes, a good party/team can help with mana return from VB and heals from Sorcs, but in the end, it isn't enough. Sorcs have had the best DMG in game, coupled with lots of stuns and a huge boost in armor via shield and gale. Warriors have seen a big ramp up in armor, hp and even DMG with Entombed Hammers (though most still can't challenge Sorcs/Rogues in pure DMG stat). Rogues have also had a big ramp in armor, but a loss in DMG and a barely noticeable increase in mana. This yields a net negative effect for Rogues over the past season.
I would say at this point that Rogues are decidedly not the best PvP class any more and have been supplanted by Sorcerers. We started seeing this transition last season after the rebalancing that STS did with Sorcerers, and as the better players learned to adapt to these new updates, some have truly turned into a force in the arena. If you pit the average Rogue against the average Sorc, the Rogue may still win (by way of Aimed Shot), but on the pro circuit, I don't think that this is the case anymore. Arcane Warriors in many cases would be able to handle higher end Rogues, but I suspect that this is more a matter of gear rather than skill, so I cannot comment on this. Oddly enough, last season and this season has turned Warriors into support players - certainly capable of getting kills, but primarily around to shield and heal their teammates.
I guess that it is all cyclical, with Sorcerers enjoying their time as top dog, Warriors are on the rise and Rogues are currently at their weakest. Not surprisingly, this falls in line with arcane releases for each class.
Sorry for the long read....just had to put my opinions out there.
AL: Kalizzaa
Retired Officer of <Elite Runners>
Elite Chronicles: Solo guides for elite maps - No longer maintained
I always value your posts Kalizzaa. I find no disagreement in your post at all and think you summarized the class standings very well. I will post something about mana usage and skill usage later tonight - I did a post on this last season comparing mana usage per skill spent. I think people without playing each class themselves start getting skewed opinions and start spouting misinformation.
You don't HAVE to use the typical combination of skills as a rogue but unfortunately in the pvp arena the typical combination of skills is the optimal damage output per mana cost, the only skill I could see being swapped out is shadow piercer. The damage nerf in pvp for rogue ultimately makes rogues (and I'd argue probably every class) even more reliant on criticals, and in that regard even more reliant on luck.
Class discussions always for some reason tend to get inflammatory, but with a new season and a change in play style I think this is definitely a discussion that needs to take place. Let's just keep it civil
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I find that the quickest way to reduce mana consumption is to use daggers instead of a bow. You might use more health pots as a tradeoff but it seems to save $$ in the long run. You would not believe how much more often you use skills with a bow than a dagger.
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How about trying to save your mana, save your attacks, don't just spam them.
Food for thought
Warriors have high heath
Mages have high mana
Rogue have both less comparing to them
For heath we have medic but we need something for mana...
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When will you guys be satisfied? Please stop the annoying and relentless posts about the poor rogues who are now so hopeless in PvP and can't kill anything. I have met quite a few rogues who still seem fairly proficient at killing and seem to be having no problems with the recent changes. Just look at the standings after each pvp map, as the top kills are almost always pretty evenly shared between mages and rogues. Things seem more balanced than ever in pvp to me. If anyone should be complaining, it should be the warriors that are not full mythic and arcane. Well I guess AL would not be AL unless the rogue is the OP top class. Good luck in your endeavors to keeping the rest of us classes down in PvP.
Not to be inflammatory to the AL rogue community...but what grimmy has said is right. You complained and complained till you got our shield nerfed, so you can 1 hit us...and now you want even MORE advantages?! Really, guys. Rogues have a disadvantage: LOW MANA. remove that, and what do you have now? A class with NO WEAKNESS.Originally Posted by drgrimmy
It's actually pretty much the same amount if mana as 31 cap, and you surivive with that little mana without complaing...
Bird, just because rogues aren't as great in pvp anymore doesn't mean you should complain. And who knows, it might just be you who's doing something wrong and getting yourself killed.
I'm not so much complaining about the mana issue in PvP (though it does sting quite a bit). Like all the other classes that got hit with the nerf bat, Rogues will adjust and improve.
I take issue with it from a PvE perspective, because mana consumption has increased by about 30% as compared to last season (due to DMG reduction and a barely increased mana pool), so farming is now more costly. I am not concerned about the impact this has on leaderboard times, though some are, I am simply noting that I am burning through a lot of mana while running the same elite maps I've been running for the past few seasons. If drop rates were better then that would offset the additional costs, but when I'm running elite maps on reroll, burning through hundreds of pots, beat the boss and reroll to a green....
AL: Kalizzaa
Retired Officer of <Elite Runners>
Elite Chronicles: Solo guides for elite maps - No longer maintained
No change is not a problem..if it makes rougues OP to other class then its okay to just leave it behind..anyways,even now,still,rougues can kill in pvp even with the damage nerf..we just need minor to none adjustment.
This is not even a complain..
P.S. this is not a complain..just stating observations which is obvious..but if it will make rougues OP on the eyes of other class, then its not even a problem.. some more,its a great challenge to rougues
That was a bug with shield.
15% mana replenish isnt op if you think about it.
Credits to Iady
Im not complaining ffs you people have no literal sense
Im not awful, but in Normal tdm matches/ sometimes ffa, rogues run out of mana after 2 fights, is that really pvp? No. Warriors or mages dont ever die because of mana, we have to struggle with mana issues with the dmg nerf.
Actually I have an idea. Lets bring the old damage back, then i wont complain about mana, bring it back, lets see reacions
Credits to Iady
My solution to this mana issue was to get a Samael and Valkin.
Keep in mind that one can use Valkin as a main pet & then use him to boost mana in combat when needed to make that extra kill. So yes, while mana is an issue for rogues in PvP, I think it is one that should remain. Why? If a warrior depletes a rogue of his mana, that is the key for the warrior to win. The same thing goes for sorcerers! In 1-2 skill cycles, a rogue's mana is depleted so use that to one's advantage!
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Why should you be able to kills more than 2 opponents in a row easily. You should be close to death after just one fight and not be able to easily recover. Despite our huge mana pools, it is the same for a mage. After one good fight you are a sitting duck. It is not because we have no mana left, but rather because of the longer cool downs of shield, life and the arcane's of pets. After a good fight with a rogue, I have used lifegiver, my health is low, my shield is close to broken and requires 10 seconds or so to use again, my pet's arcane is on cooldown (although more easily solved by just switching pets or dismissing and resummoning). I am just a sitting duck if I am by myself and some enemy comes along. With that in mind, I don't see the problem with rogues also being a sitting duck after one fight. Bottom line, if you are going to be a solo hero in pvp, you are not going to last more than one fight or so no matter what class you are. Rogues so often don't work with the team and run off by themselves to get the quick kill. If you just work with your team and stick by you warriors and mages to help out, they will help you out too!
From the perspective of pve, I can see the argument for the need for mana regeneration for rogues and I have absolutely no problem with that. From the perspective of pvp I would have to strongly disagree!
Thats not a fixed rule: rogues should always die after 2 fights. What if its a rogue + warrior vs rogue + rogue.The rogue + warriors win 2 fights in a row but the rogue has already lost mana.Why should you be able to kills more than 2 opponents in a row easily. You should be close to death after just one fight and not be able to easily recover. Despite our huge mana pools, it is the same for a mage. After one good fight you are a sitting duck. It is not because we have no mana left, but rather because of the longer cool downs of shield, life and the arcane's of pets. After a good fight with a rogue, I have used lifegiver, my health is low, my shield is close to broken and requires 10 seconds or so to use again, my pet's arcane is on cooldown (although more easily solved by just switching pets or dismissing and resummoning). I am just a sitting duck if I am by myself and some enemy comes along. With that in mind, I don't see the problem with rogues also being a sitting duck after one fight. Bottom line, if you are going to be a solo hero in pvp, you are not going to last more than one fight or so no matter what class you are. Rogues so often don't work with the team and run off by themselves to get the quick kill. If you just work with your team and stick by you warriors and mages to help out, they will help you out too!
From the perspective of pve, I can see the argument for the need for mana regeneration for rogues and I have absolutely no problem with that. From the perspective of pvp I would have to strongly disagree!
But I agree with the rest of your post. I stick to 5v5/4v4 but sometimes youd have to run off to kill the opponents rogues etc.
Sorry this thread escalated over a small idea. When I get my char back, ill do everthing that yall suggested.
Credits to Iady
Rogues are op in pvp, but keep complaining, asking to make them even more op...
If you want enough mana, go play as mage, or spend more points for int. You will still kill mages in one shot.
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