Get rid of the op wind buff

[Crowsfoot]

I personally believe mages need a slight armor buff. But besides that they are perfectly fine. However, it seems they whine waaaaay to much about their spells getting nerfed. Shield was the latest of their complaints; now, to recieve all the benefits, they must charge shield -.- wow what a nerf. You are not supose to get full benefits without charging a skill anyway! And my heal was reduced to around 60% its original strength in PvP. What did I do? I speced juggernaut and moved on. Maybe instead of wanting the skills with most potential upgraded you should try new combos. I recognize not all mages do this, but it is more common. Warriors have crap damage in PvP they now increased it, great. The heal reduction was a little too much for the small damage buff, but overall PvP kills have increased for me so its fine by me My biggest pet peeve is when I hear you ask for buffs in skills that are rediculous and actually get them.

-Now to my main argument. Wind now pushes mages foward instead of backwards. When I heard this I thought "why would this help at all?" The answer is flagging; which is fine now every class has a dash skill. Here's the difference (why wind is OP). Wind dashes the caster TWICE as far as my skyward strike, and applys a movement speed buff. I was trying to use axe throw and skyward strike while using ethyl to slow the smurfs down, but had zero chance. This is why:

1)they dash TWICE as far as skyward strike (I cannot stress that enough).

2)unlike skyward strike (and the rouge dash skill which I have failed to remeber the name of) the mage dash isn't aimed at the nearest mobs. They can have five warriors straight at them and simply brush past them (not to mention it stuns us temporarilly giving the mages an even bigger lead). If I use skyward strike on a wall of five warriors I hit the nearest target and am in immidiate range of any mele attack, I can say with 100% confidence I would die a lot less if I could jump over any enemies I didn't want to fight. Call it "skyward jump over everyone" and it would be the mage equivalent.

3)mages are ALL stun. These slippery devils were hard enough to catch before you gave them the best dash/run-away skill in the game. Clock, fire, and ice can any (by its self) help mages run away as long as they have shield and wind. So there are three builds that make them uncatchable.

-Here are my suggestions (anyof the listed will fix there OP ability to be untouchable):

A) reduce dash for mages so that it isnt so long a distance that other classes have zero chance of catching up.

B) convert wind to a ramming skill where they dash at (not through) mobs as a mini tornaedo, this way it becomes an offensive instead of run-away skill (forces mages w/ wind to fight some what).

C) make wind a longer cool down. As it is currently everytime I'm even close to mele range their wind skill is recharged at they are gone again. If they used less often maybe I would have a chance to land more than two blows of super low damage courtesy of shield.

D) if you remove the push back effect in wind it can become a multiple hit attack. Just as they have the knife storm skill for rouges and the windmill skill for warriors; wind could become "cyclone" where the following happens:
Cyclone: a tornaedo surounds the caster dealing damage every second for 3seconds. All enemies in range are stunned fir 2seconds upon cast
Upgrade 1: duration of cyclone increases to 5seconds.
Upgrade 2: extend radius of cyclone (I will leave exact radius figures up to sts).
pgrade 3: cyclone now increases movement speed and armor for four seconds. Any speed impediments are also removed for four sconds (aka windmill prevents stopping flatters, and flag won't reduce the casters movement speed. This will also be great for escaping the purple goo in shuyal maps).
Upgrade 4: Cyclone deals 15% more damage a hit.

E) give all classes a skill buffed this much. Perhaps change the 5% armor in rally cry to 25% and the movement speed to 40%. And I'm sure rouges would love noxious bolt to leave an acid patch that deals heavy damage similar to Krunch's.

(Obviously option E was ridiculing the wind upgrade, please don't buff noxious bolt or rally cry in these ways)

[Taejo]

a) reduce dash for mages so that it isnt so long a distance that other classes have zero chance of catching up.

I could live with this. The primary issue I think most sorcerers are having with this new forward dash ability is the total loss of directional control for 3 seconds. Reducing the distance would also reduce the duration of control loss.

B) convert wind to a ramming skill where they dash at (not through) mobs as a mini tornaedo, this way it becomes an offensive instead of run-away skill (forces mages w/ wind to fight some what)

Interesting idea - this is similar to the ability that Shuyal's shadowmancers have. The only concerning issue I foresee being brought up with this idea, however, is that not many sorcerers want an ability which places them in arms reach of mobs/players.

C) make wind a longer cool down. As it is currently everytime I'm even close to mele range their wind skill is recharged at they are gone again. If they used less often maybe I would have a chance to land more than two blows of super low damage courtesy of shield.

I would have to disagree with this suggestion. The cool down is already fair (5.5 seconds). The basis for my reasoning is when looking at Gale's applications in PvE. My biased opinion is that Gale is more of a PvE skill than a PvP one, and I think the Devs were trying to give it more of a PvP appeal when adding this new dash ability. As far as I'm concerned, Gale is pretty much ruined for PvE as it is, and a longer cool down would only detriment it further.

D) give all classes a skill buffed this much. Perhaps change the 5% armor in rally cry to 25% and the movement speed to 40%. And I'm sure rouges would love noxious bolt to leave an acid patch that deals heavy damage similar to Krunch's.

Haha. I think we can fix Gale without resorting to this option

-----

I appreciate your PvP-oriented perspective on the new Gale changes. It's quite obvious this new change has created quite a stir - for both PvE and PvP - and requires new ideas with a prompt resolution.

[moot]

@Taejo I personally like the dash to go to specific target (like SP and skyward smash). The ability to dash without any purpose is silly IMO. We can do like gale (to dash to a group of elite mobs) then cast ice and clock then back off again.

[Crowsfoot]

@Taejo I personally like the dash to go to specific target (like SP and skyward smash). The ability to dash without any purpose is silly IMO. We can do like gale (to dash to a group of elite mobs) then cast ice and clock then back off again.

Interesting mage perspective. And thank you taejo for your judgment of each sugestion (I did note plan D was a joke though ). I do think that plan B is the most fair after hearing how a mage would use it. This would make it an almost aimed vixen type skill that takes full advantage of the aided survival push back offers. It also solves the major PvP issue. I'm not sure Gael force will ever become a pro party skill (for elite) but the dash type skill is always desired. Lets be honest, if skyward strike didn't have dash it would bot be as pupular. So you never know.

[klayble]

Slippery devils? We Don't like being called like that :3
And as to your complaint,In my opinion I think the devs made the dash skill to dodge/run away.Because the smurfs(like me) has little health,so I think the devs helped us with that skill.You don't need to stress big time when catching smurfs because once catched,its an automatic kill for us.

[Alhuntrazeck]

Well, gale rocks in PvP flagging now. So I wouldn't like to see a nerf. However, making its dash shorter to equal rogue's piercer would be good. I'd opt for making the speed boost on uncharged and AoE with charged. Best of both worlds

[Drearivev]

Lol it's also annoying in PvE.
>I'm on Warrior
>They use Gale with that upgrade
>I use heal to save their butts
>They're gone like the wind (pun intented)
Then we all know what happens next....the poor mage dies a painful death

[Crowsfoot]

Slippery devils? We Don't like being called like that :3
And as to your complaint,In my opinion I think the devs made the dash skill to dodge/run away.Because the smurfs(like me) has little health,so I think the devs helped us with that skill.You don't need to stress big time when catching smurfs because once catched,its an automatic kill for us.

Plenty of mages can fight in PvP and not instantly die. Myunji, Hallun, Haligali, Beatrix, joncheese, emmacheese, etc. In fact the players list have a very high chance of killing me. My argument against wind is now you can NEVER die. As a mage you think this is great. I don't kno, maybe because you NEVER die. I was in PvP 5warriors against 1mage. The mage scored with flag 5 times (we were not flagging at all and got zero points) andthe mage was unable for use to catch, even when we all stood at the base and waited for him to come get the flag. He used fireball (stunning use), grabbed flag and used slag (stunning use), and then dashed away like santa clause. I tried using skyward smash (not even close) then axe thro (couldn't reach), and so did everybody else.

My point of writing this is because this spell is rediculous. This dash is twice the distance of mine, stuns more often, bypasses mobs and players, and applies a speed buff. My dash goes half your distance, and has a 25% to stun (doesn't help if I can't reach you).

[Drearivev]

Plenty of mages can fight in PvP and not instantly die. Myunji, Hallun, Haligali, Beatrix, joncheese, emmacheese, etc. In fact the players list have a very high chance of killing me. My argument against wind is now you can NEVER die. As a mage you think this is great. I don't kno, maybe because you NEVER die. I was in PvP 5warriors against 1mage. The mage scored with flag 5 times (we were not flagging at all and got zero points) andthe mage was unable for use to catch, even when we all stood at the base and waited for him to come get the flag. He used fireball (stunning use), grabbed flag and used slag (stunning use), and then dashed away like santa clause. I tried using skyward smash (not even close) then axe thro (couldn't reach), and so did everybody else.

I lol'd at this. 5 Warriors couldn't get a Sorcerer, lol.

[CallMeOops]

Plenty of mages can fight in PvP and not instantly die. Myunji, Hallun, Haligali, Beatrix, joncheese, emmacheese, etc. In fact the players list have a very high chance of killing me. My argument against wind is now you can NEVER die. As a mage you think this is great. I don't kno, maybe because you NEVER die. I was in PvP 5warriors against 1mage. The mage scored with flag 5 times (we were not flagging at all and got zero points) andthe mage was unable for use to catch, even when we all stood at the base and waited for him to come get the flag. He used fireball (stunning use), grabbed flag and used slag (stunning use), and then dashed away like santa clause. I tried using skyward smash (not even close) then axe thro (couldn't reach), and so did everybody else.

My point of writing this is because this spell is rediculous. This dash is twice the distance of mine, stuns more often, bypasses mobs and players, and applies a speed buff. My dash goes half your distance, and has a 25% to stun (doesn't help if I can't reach you).

Agreed the dash should be the same distance as ours, ridiculous if you can not catch the mage but eh I like challenges all the same

[drgrimmy]

Yep, been great for flagging, but this upgrade not really good for too much else. Yes I changed my spec to a full flagging build, and it is now very easy to flag and much easier to avoid death, but my killing ability is pretty much nothing. Shield, life, and gale only leaves you with one really good offensive skill of your choice. And I must say that a warrior almost may never kill me with this build, but I will also never kill a warrior with this build, and if I come out of the dash right in front of a rogue without my shield ready I will have a very high chance of dying. Yes, great for flagging and makes a smurf hard to kill, but then again a warrior speced for flagging is also almost impossible to stop, even with more than one enemy attacking them the whole way across the map. The one clear problem I see with this skill is that it more easily allows a mage to be off on there own running flags and not staying with the group for survival and helping the group. It kind of kills the group dynamic of pvp and makes it even more of a solo 1v1 type endeavor. Then again warriors are notorious for running off on there own and flagging, and rogues are notorious for running off on there own for quick kills.

@ crowsfoot I think I remember seeing you in a few matches last night. Yes maybe a little OP. There were a few a matches that were not clearly flagging matches and I was able to pretty easily get 5 flags without getting killed in some of those, but then again a lot of people never even attack me. Furthermore, my build was pretty non offensive with gale as my only offensive skill, so I could pretty much not kill anything unless someone was stupid enough to attack me when they were cursed and I was fully shielded. Yes, hugely changes the dynamic of pvp for smurfs, but lets give it time and see before we fully designate it as OP.

[Crowsfoot]

@drgrimmy, giving it time was my original assumption as well. I ended up respecing several time just to be able to catch up. Here's a build I tried (even used ethyl and frost in different attempts)

5/5 axe throw
3/5 skyward strike(damage and stun)
5/5 windmill
4/5 heal (no taunt)

5/5 movement speed (was that desperate)
5/5 armor
5/5 str
3/5 damage

This is the best chasing build I can think of and it was still useless, even w/ a rouge to land kills after I caught a specific mage that insisted on anoying me. If I can't even Cath you over a period of 9 seperate builds and 11 seperate games (I counted) - and only landed a kill wen the flagger was ignorant enough to attack us straight on and not run awsy - the skill is OP.

Also @drgrimmy if you read my original thread post I did concieve mages need more armor. As it stands these are the averages of armor for each class wen using upgraded myth.

Mages= 1000
Rouges= 1400
Warriors= 1800-2000 (dictated by weapon)

Not to mention mages already have one of the lowest hp stats. But I hardly see why giving mages higher crit and a guarunteed escape skill solves this issue. I am all for raising mage defense (slightly, rouges deserve better defense since they don't have stun to help them draw out fights).

[drgrimmy]

I hear you. To be honest I think it is just for more of a niche flagging build and not for a general use PvP build. I think you are seeing a lot of mages using it due to the free respec weekend, but I doubt many people will have it as part of their go to PvP build after the free respect weekend is over. I for one will probably drop it for my pvp build once I get 50 more flags because I just don't think I am a really effective killer with it. I guess time will tell, but I for one am not dead set on keeping the skill as it is....

[Drearivev]

Thing is, Shadow Piercer and Skyward Smash aren't really skills to run away. They are attacks, same way Gale is. But if your Gale has no upgrades (meaning 1/5), then you won't dash away. However, since SP and SS have dashes and leaps even with no upgrades, this means they are meant for attacking, not running. Gale's dash doesn't take you into an enemy if there is one in range. It takes you to whichever direction you want to go in. If it was an attack like SS or SP, then you'd have to be on a deserted island to not attack unwanted attention (which is to say, it dashes very far).

[Derezzzed]

I think gale should be made just like the shadowmancers redzone attack (shuyal) where they dash at you

~Just my 2 cents

[Taejo]

Unfortunately, there are far too many perks within the Gale skill tree now which makes it difficult for STG to decide how to shift them around. We can't have them all! I think there's a few good ideas posted here already, and I'd like to add my suggestions:

• Gale Force (primary skill) - leave as is.

• Outward Squall - leave as is.

• Protective Current - change this to a new, individual skill, Blitzing Gust: Charging up Gale Force will also make you dash forward. [Maybe it also does damage? Consider the ideas above about making this similar to Shadow Pierce or Skyward Smash. At the very least, decrease the distance of the dash]

• Speed of Wind - change this to a new, but similar skill, Wind Tunnel: [this verbiage captures both the devastation of strong/fast winds and the non-visible barrier they create] Gale Force will increase your run speed by 25% for 5 seconds. Charging up Gale Force will grant you an armor bonus of +50% for 4 seconds.

• Weighted Wind - leave as is.

With the Gale Force tree set up in this manner, I now have the option to opt out of the dash skill completely while still maintaining my AE capabilities (which also grants me +50% armor). However, if I do choose to have the dash ability, it is complimented by Outward Squall and the +50% armor bonus. The side-theme of this set up is to have the +run speed a constant buff for those who spec it, and to make Outward Squall the ultimate AE/CC ability - you could also see it as a life-saver since it pushes mobs back and grants you +50% armor to regain your bearings. Lastly, I can still utilize the frontal cone effect of Gale Force (and gain run speed) which a useful CC-type aspect of Gale Force that we can't leave out.

For example, if I enjoy PvE and don't want the dash, I can spec:

Gale Force, Outward Squall, Wind Tunnel, Weighted Wind. This gives me AE/CC capabilities, run speed, and +50% armor.

If I want to flag better, or I like using the dash ability in PvE, I can spec:

Gale Force, Outward Squall, Blitzing Gust, Wind Tunnel, Weighted Wind. This gives me AE/CC capabilities and run speed when not charging my skills, plus the dash and +50% armor when charging it. Outward Squall and Weighted Wind become somewhat optional, depending on your desired capabilities.

[Alrisaia]

promise I will reply soon.

[Energizeric]

Yeah, it's pretty useless for anything other than flagging. As for your issue of not being able to catch mages carrying the flag, maybe mages will catch up on the flag leaderboards now. It would be nice if a mage had a chance of being #1 on the "top player" leaderboard. Up until now warriors have ruled that leaderboard (I'm pretty sure the #1 player in every season so far has been a warrior). The reason is that most players have gotten all of the non-flagging achievements, so all that is left is flags, and warriors rule that category.

[Drearivev]

Unfortunately, there are far too many perks within the Gale skill tree now which makes it difficult for STG to decide how to shift them around. We can't have them all! I think there's a few good ideas posted here already, and I'd like to add my suggestions:

• Gale Force (primary skill) - leave as is.

• Outward Squall - leave as is.

• Protective Current - change this to a new, individual skill, Blitzing Gust: Charging up Gale Force will also make you dash forward. [Maybe it also does damage? Consider the ideas above about making this similar to Shadow Pierce or Skyward Smash. At the very least, decrease the distance of the dash]

• Speed of Wind - change this to a new, but similar skill, Wind Tunnel: [this verbiage captures both the devastation of strong/fast winds and the non-visible barrier they create] Gale Force will increase your run speed by 25% for 5 seconds. Charging up Gale Force will grant you an armor bonus of +50% for 4 seconds.

• Weighted Wind - leave as is.

With the Gale Force tree set up in this manner, I now have the option to opt out of the dash skill completely while still maintaining my AE capabilities (which also grants me +50% armor). However, if I do choose to have the dash ability, it is complimented by Outward Squall and the +50% armor bonus. The side-theme of this set up is to have the +run speed a constant buff for those who spec it, and to make Outward Squall the ultimate AE/CC ability - you could also see it as a life-saver since it pushes mobs back and grants you +50% armor to regain your bearings. Lastly, I can still utilize the frontal cone effect of Gale Force (and gain run speed) which a useful CC-type aspect of Gale Force that we can't leave out.

For example, if I enjoy PvE and don't want the dash, I can spec:

Gale Force, Outward Squall, Wind Tunnel, Weighted Wind. This gives me AE/CC capabilities, run speed, and +50% armor.

If I want to flag better, or I like using the dash ability in PvE, I can spec:

Gale Force, Outward Squall, Blitzing Gust, Wind Tunnel, Weighted Wind. This gives me AE/CC capabilities and run speed when not charging my skills, plus the dash and +50% armor when charging it. Outward Squall and Weighted Wind become somewhat optional, depending on your desired capabilities.

I would most likely take Gale if this were to happen. +1

[Zanpakuto]

I actually really enjoy playing mage now. Before I was slow, couldn't run, attacks were weak and I switched to rogue. Now we actually stand a chance!