Call a Neighbor (elite)

[Crowsfoot]

I would say if u wanna be pure tank remove every skill which dont taunt enemy. So JUGGERNUT.

O.o Uhm, this was asked, and answered a month ago.

[bhutkeyur]

How does Juggernaut - below 25% heal works? How much it self heal exactly? I mean how much % of health it recover when warrior fall below 25% health.

[Jirikjurasek]

How does Juggernaut - below 25% heal works? How much it self heal exactly? I mean how much % of health it recover when warrior fall below 25% health.

I make a quick test (I didnīt use pet, tested area elite Brackenridge - Forest):
Heal points(armor) - recover heal/recover heal/...
6000(2156) - 787/869/925/929/852
4000(50) - 74/71/67/
4100 (0) - /102/115/116/
4100(1058) - 171/177/179
so, it seems that recovered HP are based on armor

[Crowsfoot]

How jugg works:

You have a 50% chance every second under 25% hp to self heal the equivalent of 25% of your hp in return. Hence, I typically jump to 40-45% hp after the self heal occurs.

---

Armor is not a factor.

[Jirikjurasek]

How jugg works:

You have a 50% every second under 25% hp to self heal the equivalent of 25% of your hp in return. Hence, I typically jump to 40-45% hp after the self heal occurs.

---

Armor is not a factor.

It seems, that out skills work differently :-) My CS have taunt and my Jugg works as follows:
chance 50% to get HP everytime you are hit by creature and your HP is under 25%. (I succesfully use this in elite, when I aggro +-10 mobs and they healing me and I donīt need to use elixirs)

If armor isnīt a factor, than explain me my previous results. Armor have to be one of the factors

[Crowsfoot]

Explain to me how I got +25% hp back running elite rooks nest naked in a solo run.

I test most theories I find plausible, your being one of them. I believe your hp kept falling below a +25% gain because you weren't isolating mobs. You should note that reducing your armor will also reduce your hp since your gear has stats other than armor.

Here are the procedures I used:

1) kill all in the first group ofobs except one.

2) make the single remaining mob reset (note where he reset).

3) remove all gear.

4) pull the mob that reset a pace or two away from where you saw him previously reset.

5) use jugg after hp reaches 50-60%.

6) step past where the mob resets as soon as jugg causes you to self heal. record your percentage of remaining hp.

[Jirikjurasek]

I was testing it in elite forest on the first single mob. In my thread above I post numbers (HP, armor, heal gain). You can see the same HP and diferent armour and DIFERENT HP gain.

Explain to me how I got +25% hp back running elite rooks nest naked in a solo run.

When 10 mobs hit you, you can get 10x HP gain. I try it now (completely naked) and I stay 3 hit only

Post some numbers, for illustrative, please

[Crowsfoot]

Post some numbers, for illustrative, please

I did. I posted percents because that's how jugg is calculated. Why would I waste my time finding the precise number for my stats when it will vary per player?

[Jirikjurasek]

I did. I posted percents because that's how jugg is calculated. Why would I waste my time finding the precise number for my stats when it will vary per player?

Because I think that if you do it (as I do), you wil find that you are wrong and just confused other players ;-)
You post just percents, but when you spend your time for trying yet, why you didnīt post value of heal?
I believe you play good for warr, but before I write somethink on forum, I try it and you not. And after that, lot of people are confused, because read yours wrong remark. Not offensive, Iīm just trying to make these threads about tanking more transparent and simple

[Crowsfoot]

Because I think that if you do it (as I do), you wil find that you are wrong and just confused other players ;-)
You post just percents, but when you spend your time for trying yet, why you didnīt post value of heal?
I believe you play good for warr, but before I write somethink on forum, I try it and you not. And after that, lot of people are confused, because read yours wrong remark. Not offensive, Iīm just trying to make these threads about tanking more transparent and simple

1) stop using winky faces when you are complimenting yourself, it just makes you look like arrogant.

2) if I use your method I would share your bias. Note that I followed the scientific method

3) stop posting this garbage on armor, you can't have a test as you have described because you have more than one I dependent variable.

4) how am I confusing people? What's eaiser to say:

a) with x amount if armor and y amount of hp you will recover z hp.

Or

b) you will recover 25% of x hp.

Obviously everyone can relate to b while a only applies to people with my exact gear.

[Crowsfoot]

I make a quick test (I didnīt use pet, tested area elite Brackenridge - Forest):
Heal points(armor) - recover heal/recover heal/...
6000(2156) - 787/869/925/929/852
4000(50) - 74/71/67/
4100 (0) - /102/115/116/
4100(1058) - 171/177/179
so, it seems that recovered HP are based on armor

What gear do you use to get EXACTLY 4100 hp. And how do you increase your armor by 1058 without increasing hp? All gear with armor stats increase hp for our class.

Ie: you have faulty data

[Jirikjurasek]

1) stop using winky faces when you are complimenting yourself, it just makes you look like arrogant.
4) how am I confusing people? What's eaiser to say:

a) with x amount if armor and y amount of hp you will recover z hp.

Or

b) you will recover 25% of x hp.

1) I didnīt mean that arrogant, but after few day, it looks like. Iīm sorry.
4) b) is easier, but only if z is 25%, it isnt. And that thing with CS doesn't taunt..

What gear do you use to get EXACTLY 4100 hp. And how do you increase your armor by 1058 without increasing hp? All gear with armor stats increase hp for our class.

Ie: you have faulty data

6000(2156) - mythic helm+armor, pavise, doom amulet and some ring with 12 armor (fangmaster? i donīt remember)
4000(50) - doom amulet
4100 (0) - ring of potency (and maybe amulet of potency, donīt remember level of these items)
4100(1058) - mythic armor

all HP values are rounded to tens (4095->4100, 4094->4090)
values of armor count with 5% passive armor bonus

I just try to say, that there are more than one factor. If I have time I want to try how jugg works with the same amount of armor but different levels of HP and conversely.

[Crowsfoot]

1) I didnīt mean that arrogant, but after few day, it looks like. Iīm sorry.
4) b) is easier, but only if z is 25%, it isnt. And that thing with CS doesn't taunt..


6000(2156) - mythic helm+armor, pavise, doom amulet and some ring with 12 armor (fangmaster? i donīt remember)
4000(50) - doom amulet
4100 (0) - ring of potency (and maybe amulet of potency, donīt remember level of these items)
4100(1058) - mythic armor

all HP values are rounded to tens (4095->4100, 4094->4090)
values of armor count with 5% passive armor bonus

I just try to say, that there are more than one factor. If I have time I want to try how jugg works with the same amount of armor but different levels of HP and conversely.

You haven't rounded significant figures properly. If you use solid numbers (as you have done) rounding should always be the final step, or not be done at all. Additionally, if you had rounded to begin with all of your data should be in one SigFig (significant figure). Ie: they are all around 25% further supporting my data.

The advantage of percents us I can round in any step to the nearest 5% and maintain a relatively low percent error (also the hp bar is given in percents so its easilly observable).

[Jirikjurasek]

I make new test now, the main factor is DMG. try jugg with and without weapon and you will see.
Crowsfoot, its not important if I say 4100 or 4095, the meaning of this is, that your idea of 25% gain HP is wrong, and it is. Hovewer, I must say, that if you have arcane maul, you CAN get 25% HP gain, but we, mortal people, get less

[Crowsfoot]

I make new test now, the main factor is DMG. try jugg with and without weapon and you will see.
Crowsfoot, its not important if I say 4100 or 4095, the meaning of this is, that your idea of 25% gain HP is wrong, and it is. Hovewer, I must say, that if you have arcane maul, you CAN get 25% HP gain, but we, mortal people, get less

I found my actual number, at 4080 hp I regained 1020. That's 25%

[Jirikjurasek]

I found my actual number, at 4080 hp I regained 1020. That's 25%

Okey, according to your HP, you have some item equiped, and according to HP gained you have arcane maul or mythic weapon?
And its realy interesting, that you get exactly 25%, I get different numbers on each hit.
Stop this discussion, you just talking about yourself and dont know how it works actually. You offense me taht I didnīt post my EXACTLY gear and now you make the same thing just for self-centered: "I get 25%"
for example, I have full mythic gear and devourer maul of potency (335 dmg in stats) and get 15,8%
everyone who have jugg can try how it works with and without weapon and will see:
1) HP return based on your DMG
2) 50% chance to get HP when you are hit by creature and have less then 25% HP

[Crowsfoot]

Okey, according to your HP, you have some item equiped, and according to HP gained you have arcane maul or mythic weapon?
And its realy interesting, that you get exactly 25%, I get different numbers on each hit.
Stop this discussion, you just talking about yourself and dont know how it works actually. You offense me taht I didnīt post my EXACTLY gear and now you make the same thing just for self-centered: "I get 25%"
for example, I have full mythic gear and devourer maul of potency (335 dmg in stats) and get 15,8%
everyone who have jugg can try how it works with and without weapon and will see:
1) HP return based on your DMG
2) 50% chance to get HP when you are hit by creature and have less then 25% HP

Hp return from Horn of Renewal is damage based. Juggernaut is not.

I had a doom equiped to mimic a number close to your data. No other gear was used.

[Hectororius]

After all this discussion about HP Return when under 25% with Jugg, I find that this skill point to be a bit wasted in elite runs.

When I need this skill to activate most is usually when I'm potting like mad to stay alive anyways, and to wait for just the right moment for it to possibly go off seems to risky to me. I've put the point instead in to the taunt skill ( I know some dont need it) but its there for backup. otherwise, the point can be spent elsewhere in either passive or upgrading another skill like CS or SS.

my 2 cents on the matter.

[Crowsfoot]

After all this discussion about HP Return when under 25% with Jugg, I find that this skill point to be a bit wasted in elite runs.

When I need this skill to activate most is usually when I'm potting like mad to stay alive anyways, and to wait for just the right moment for it to possibly go off seems to risky to me. I've put the point instead in to the taunt skill ( I know some dont need it) but its there for backup. otherwise, the point can be spent elsewhere in either passive or upgrading another skill like CS or SS.

my 2 cents on the matter.

The 20% damage reduction is worth the points when you do monster pulls.

[Hectororius]

Gonna bump this for easy reference.

Hopefully we can get this one stickied!

Thanks again Crow!