Three Suggestions to Make Christmas Unforgettable

[Fusionstrike]

The community has some influence over the devs decisions. The community can also help devs out? People whine for a level cap, but they never offer any suggestions/information on what that cap should be. There are a few suggestions, but they are not reasonable. Atlantis? Heck, sts doesnt have to fo dat.

Constructive Critism is important. Devs need it. Whining/complaining, never ends well.

While I don't think there's anything wrong with offering suggestions, your statement implies that the main barrier to PL getting new content is the lack of constructive suggestions provided by the community. Firstly, I think the community has provided quite a lot of meaningful feedback and suggestions and has demonstrated a clear interest in seeing PL continue to be developed. But more importantly, it's clearly not the lack of ideas but the lack of resources that has held PL back this last year. Multiple PL reps have just flat said it straight out that they have decided not to allocate manpower to work on PL. I don't see how encouraging players to post suggestions will have any effect on the basic truth that there's simply nobody assigned to work on new PL content.

About whining/complaining, it's true in some sense that it's not productive. However, if everyone just silently accepted the current state even when dissatisfied, then the PL staff would get no indication that there's even any more interest from the community. Eventually they'd notice the play hours diminish as people simply gave up and left, but that's a lagging indicator from which it's hard to recover if some focus returns to the game. Once too many people leave, it's extremely hard to rebuild a player base. People coming right out and saying they're disappointed at least gives STS a chance to revise their strategy if they so choose. That doesn't mean that people should just wantonly slag the staff, but pointed discussions are appropriate and warranted from a company's customer base.

I think one of the undercurrents driving the complaints is the rapidity with which PL went down. There is a general expectation that MMOs last for a pretty long time just because most of them historically have. That is, those that have had success with a decent player base are usually around for 5+ years at a minimum. PL ran off the cliff development-wise at the end of 2012 (the last major content update) which is just under 3 years. The fact that the dev staff was just suddenly gone without warning from such a still-young MMO really caught the community by surprise, magnifying the discontent due to the implicit assumption that, well, PL was too young to die. To contemplate that it could be over so quickly really shocked the community.

[Chopper]

While I don't think there's anything wrong with offering suggestions, your statement implies that the main barrier to PL getting new content is the lack of constructive suggestions provided by the community. Firstly, I think the community has provided quite a lot of meaningful feedback and suggestions and has demonstrated a clear interest in seeing PL continue to be developed. But more importantly, it's clearly not the lack of ideas but the lack of resources that has held PL back this last year. Multiple PL reps have just flat said it straight out that they have decided not to allocate manpower to work on PL. I don't see how encouraging players to post suggestions will have any effect on the basic truth that there's simply nobody assigned to work on new PL content.

About whining/complaining, it's true in some sense that it's not productive. However, if everyone just silently accepted the current state even when dissatisfied, then the PL staff would get no indication that there's even any more interest from the community. Eventually they'd notice the play hours diminish as people simply gave up and left, but that's a lagging indicator from which it's hard to recover if some focus returns to the game. Once too many people leave, it's extremely hard to rebuild a player base. People coming right out and saying they're disappointed at least gives STS a chance to revise their strategy if they so choose. That doesn't mean that people should just wantonly slag the staff, but pointed discussions are appropriate and warranted from a company's customer base.

I think one of the undercurrents driving the complaints is the rapidity with which PL went down. There is a general expectation that MMOs last for a pretty long time just because most of them historically have. That is, those that have had success with a decent player base are usually around for 5+ years at a minimum. PL ran off the cliff development-wise at the end of 2012 (the last major content update) which is just under 3 years. The fact that the dev staff was just suddenly gone without warning from such a still-young MMO really caught the community by surprise, magnifying the discontent due to the implicit assumption that, well, PL was too young to die. To contemplate that it could be over so quickly really shocked the community.

This is well put. Its surprising and shocking that the devs have pretty much abandoned the game in such an abrupt fashion.

[MightyMicah]

This is well put. Its surprising and shocking that the devs have pretty much abandoned the game in such an abrupt fashion.

Hmm not really if you think about it. They transitioned from payed campaigns to a straight up free mmo. Then they began looking to make money elsewhere which ultimately became elixirs and expensive vanity. Elixirs began to diminish the player base because there was no incentive to get good; no challenge left, aside from pvp. Once they added end game cap rewards (CoP was the first) people began to feel cheated and couldn't compete at end game even in pvp. All of this madness caused tons and tons of oldies to quit the game as well as discouraging new players to replace them by staying. One thing lead to another and it seemed like PL just got one bad update after another. You can't abuse a game like PL got abused and expect it to shine.

So the devs need money and what do they do? They start putting forth effort on a brand new start. Maybe this time they'll start out better and finish better since they've learned from their last mistakes. Right? Wrong. Star Legends didn't catch on, nor did Dark Legends. With the release of AL, however, STS got their chance to finally do things right. And they did. But that leaves PL in the dust. There is no incentive to fix it because it's not making them a lot of money and because it's so messed up. Even if they knew how to fix it perfectly, it would require a massive change that would cause so many people to be upset, it wouldn't even be worth the time, effort, and money that it would take to fix it.

[Argyros]

While I don't think there's anything wrong with offering suggestions, your statement implies that the main barrier to PL getting new content is the lack of constructive suggestions provided by the community. Firstly, I think the community has provided quite a lot of meaningful feedback and suggestions and has demonstrated a clear interest in seeing PL continue to be developed. But more importantly, it's clearly not the lack of ideas but the lack of resources that has held PL back this last year. Multiple PL reps have just flat said it straight out that they have decided not to allocate manpower to work on PL. I don't see how encouraging players to post suggestions will have any effect on the basic truth that there's simply nobody assigned to work on new PL content.

About whining/complaining, it's true in some sense that it's not productive. However, if everyone just silently accepted the current state even when dissatisfied, then the PL staff would get no indication that there's even any more interest from the community. Eventually they'd notice the play hours diminish as people simply gave up and left, but that's a lagging indicator from which it's hard to recover if some focus returns to the game. Once too many people leave, it's extremely hard to rebuild a player base. People coming right out and saying they're disappointed at least gives STS a chance to revise their strategy if they so choose. That doesn't mean that people should just wantonly slag the staff, but pointed discussions are appropriate and warranted from a company's customer base.

I think one of the undercurrents driving the complaints is the rapidity with which PL went down. There is a general expectation that MMOs last for a pretty long time just because most of them historically have. That is, those that have had success with a decent player base are usually around for 5+ years at a minimum. PL ran off the cliff development-wise at the end of 2012 (the last major content update) which is just under 3 years. The fact that the dev staff was just suddenly gone without warning from such a still-young MMO really caught the community by surprise, magnifying the discontent due to the implicit assumption that, well, PL was too young to die. To contemplate that it could be over so quickly really shocked the community.

First off, I was never trying to imply that there is a lack of constructive suggestions. Simply that if your here to complain for a level cap, stop doing nothing. I know many people have, and many who haven't. Now this is what I believe- You cannot build a house by simply telling the materials to arise and form together. You must build the house yourself. In this case, building the house is doing whatever possible to improve the player base, the condition of the community, and the balance of the game. THESE are the areas where we should be giving constructive suggestions.

You may be right about the "current number of devs" situations. Im not in Texas at their office so I couldnt tell you.

Your getting there. Constructive critism is the opposite of complaining. We must be orderly, and think it through before ever considering a change in game. Wasting a developers time is never good.

You may also be correct about the player base. The only facts I can give is that there are 81k forumer accs, and 1mil+ Pl downloads in Android alone. In game is still very active... There are still good people out there.

I hope you understand me.

[WhoIsThis]

Ok so by modest do you mean less critical? Or shorter? Or perhaps both?

Probably both at this point. I hated to admit it myself, but the shorter it is, the more probable that it will get done.

While I don't think there's anything wrong with offering suggestions, your statement implies that the main barrier to PL getting new content is the lack of constructive suggestions provided by the community. Firstly, I think the community has provided quite a lot of meaningful feedback and suggestions and has demonstrated a clear interest in seeing PL continue to be developed. But more importantly, it's clearly not the lack of ideas but the lack of resources that has held PL back this last year. Multiple PL reps have just flat said it straight out that they have decided not to allocate manpower to work on PL. I don't see how encouraging players to post suggestions will have any effect on the basic truth that there's simply nobody assigned to work on new PL content.

At the risk of sounding a bit elitist, I think that among anybody in the PL forum here, I feel that I have earned (and I particularly stress the word earned) the most right to say that I agree with this statement. We are not suffering from a lack of good ideas. We are suffering from a lack of developer resources allocated to this game.

About whining/complaining, it's true in some sense that it's not productive. However, if everyone just silently accepted the current state even when dissatisfied, then the PL staff would get no indication that there's even any more interest from the community. Eventually they'd notice the play hours diminish as people simply gave up and left, but that's a lagging indicator from which it's hard to recover if some focus returns to the game. Once too many people leave, it's extremely hard to rebuild a player base. People coming right out and saying they're disappointed at least gives STS a chance to revise their strategy if they so choose. That doesn't mean that people should just wantonly slag the staff, but pointed discussions are appropriate and warranted from a company's customer base.

Back in 2011, that's exactly what I tried to prevent:
http://www.spacetimestudios.com/show...-for-this-year

At the risk of looking at the past with rose-tinted glasses, the community of 2011, for all it's flaws was a lot better than it is today. That and I would argue PL was a better game. Balance wise, the game would be a better place today if they had never released a level over 66 nor the Angel sets.

Conclusions

Today, STS is making quite a bit on platinum. However, many players have voiced their dissatisfaction. This is good in the short run, but bad in the long run.

We could see a larger group of disillusioned players leave at some point. The new caps have offered little creativity and an increase in difficulty that many perceive are nothing more than a ploy to get more plat. Players do not feel that they are getting their money's worth, while the older players look at the "good old days" more so than ever before. I think that a ton of goodwill has been destroyed since Nuri has come out.

Failing to act will lead to the long term decline in reputation and perhaps revenue of PL. It has happened before to other MMOs.

Furthermore, if a success is made, then we could see other benefits. Players will be much more willing for example to recommend PL to their friends and STS will continue to enjoy a good reputation among gamers. Today in the PC world, many big companies like EA and Activision are disliked for "milking" customers through DLC, restrictive DRM, and other questionable business practices. STS so far has enjoyed a relatively good, but now declining reputation.

I will end this on an optimistic note. I think that STS has built a solid foundation so far, and I hope that these suggestions are considered and many implemented for a enjoyable game in the future.

I look back and I consider my quote here to be very prescient. My suggestions were not followed. Here we are today.

I think one of the undercurrents driving the complaints is the rapidity with which PL went down. There is a general expectation that MMOs last for a pretty long time just because most of them historically have. That is, those that have had success with a decent player base are usually around for 5+ years at a minimum. PL ran off the cliff development-wise at the end of 2012 (the last major content update) which is just under 3 years. The fact that the dev staff was just suddenly gone without warning from such a still-young MMO really caught the community by surprise, magnifying the discontent due to the implicit assumption that, well, PL was too young to die. To contemplate that it could be over so quickly really shocked the community.

You know it's funny. People have always talked about making a "WoW-killer". I don't believe that STS ever tried said that their game would be a WoW-killer, but a lot of developers fail to understand what WoW did right. They cultivated a good long term community. That's something that many developers don't understand. They also don't understand how quality of content, perceived fairness of revenue generation, fundamental game decisions, and making a balanced game a fundamentally critical for the long term viability of the game. Equally as important, they did not aggressively monetize the game.

As a former WoW player myself, when WoW players say they quit, they don't say they "quit". They say they retire, the way you retire a career. That's because many of the players of WoW have put as much as 10 years of time and emotional investment into the game. That's longer than most people hold jobs these days. Hence, they retire. That's the result of all of the investment that they've put in the game. That's the result of WoW's accomplishments, whatever it's other flaws. They made content worth playing for 10 years.

WoW is only dying now because well, Blizzard has become increasingly customer-hostile, and because it looks like the PC market itself is in decline.

[WhoIsThis]

First off, I was never trying to imply that there is a lack of constructive suggestions. Simply that if your here to complain for a level cap, stop doing nothing. I know many people have, and many who haven't. Now this is what I believe- You cannot build a house by simply telling the materials to arise and form together. You must build the house yourself. In this case, building the house is doing whatever possible to improve the player base, the condition of the community, and the balance of the game. THESE are the areas where we should be giving constructive suggestions.

Yes, but constructive suggestions mean nothing if they are not acted upon.

You may be right about the "current number of devs" situations. Im not in Texas at their office so I couldnt tell you.

There's no "may be" about it. I for one am certain he's right. A development studio does not sit around and do nothing. This is an issue of allocation of resources.

You may also be correct about the player base. The only facts I can give is that there are 81k forumer accs, and 1mil+ Pl downloads in Android alone. In game is still very active... There are still good people out there.

It's not about how many downloads there were in the past. It's about many players are playing the game right now. And more critically, how much money this game is making. Even more critically, it's about the growth potential in the future. There may be good people, but what Fusion is saying is, there would be even more "good people" if there was a relatively consistent amount of new content every few months or so. And many of the good people of the past would still be here, with more content available.

[Argyros]

Yes, but constructive suggestions mean nothing if they are not acted upon.



There's no "may be" about it. I for one am certain he's right. A development studio does not sit around and do nothing. This is an issue of allocation of resources.



It's not about how many downloads there were in the past. It's about many players are playing the game right now. And more critically, how much money this game is making. Even more critically, it's about the growth potential in the future. There may be good people, but what Fusion is saying is, there would be even more "good people" if there was a relatively consistent amount of new content every few months or so. And many of the good people of the past would still be here, with more content available.

Exactly. I know that half the time I dont fully get my point across... But this really does sum it up.

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[Fusionstrike]

...a lot of developers fail to understand what WoW did right. They cultivated a good long term community.

You made a lot of good points. I pulled out the one that I think is the most important and at the heart of everything. It's important to recognize that building an MMO is, above all else, creating a community. That is, fostering an environment where players feel invested in what they do and find a satisfaction in building something. Not everyone builds the same thing, but all build something: achievements, friendships, teams to revel in shared successes, collections of hard-won items, unusual strategies and tactics, etc. And all of this takes place with an audience of other players. Nobody would bother if it were just a single player game because there'd be no one to share it with. (Or rather, those who play such games, e.g Final Fantasy, do so for different reasons.)

In the end, it doesn't really matter as much that the graphics are the latest or the game is "new". What keeps players engaged is a healthy community, which is fed by regular attention and support by the dev team. As long as that is there, the game is alive and therefore the community is too. When that stops, the community inevitably fades away because the motivation for players to "build something" is gone.

I don't think STS gets this at all with their strategy of releasing a slew of games that are just a variation on the same theme. They pursue this strategy as if they're making Madden games, where the players demand a new release every year, rather than an MMO, where the most valuable attribute is continuity. It baffles me that they seem not to understand the most fundamental underpinning of their own business. They got there first in mobile MMO, and did a fantastic job making a game that created a large fanbase. Unfortunately for all of us, they didn't understand that rolling out game after game is not the right long-term strategy. MMO players generally don't want to keep moving on to new games, starting over each time like a hamster on a wheel. The amount of competition in the mobile MMO space will only continue to grow, relegating STS to just another also-ran to other companies that better provide what the players really want. They had the lead and the chance to become the power in mobile MMOs, but they blew it. I really enjoyed what they did with PL. It makes me sad that it will not survive, as STS is clearly not going to change its strategy at this point.

[Oldcoot]

Well said fus

[WhoIsThis]

This is what I was planning on addressing in my next long thread. I'll save my reply for there.

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