Pay vs Non-Pay Players

[Striderevil]

Recently read Nuked post (Dissapointed) and was surprised by the feedback of many players considering themselves as normal yet unable to get high level gear without paying. I was peeved of more that the topic was closed on request considering that many still have a lot to say and contribute to the topic. So I'm forming the thread again and will leave it open for discussion.

First let me answer Nuked by saying that the very fact that these unapproachable eggs are in the Egg form and are trade-able allows for them to be obtained by free to play players that financially contribute nothing towards a free to play game. There are no ads in game to generate income so they offer plats to anyone willing to play and from companies on Nativex and Trialplay. That being said even those who pay cant be forking out a $90 everytime they need a 1.5 mill in gold. which again is not enough as average mythic gear runs min 2 mill +. So though there are people who can do it, there are others who obtain the gold and contribute both to real life and virtual economy.

Now Locked grand crates that are obtained need plat to open. But a free to play player can sell them on average for 10k and for an event such as this at an even higher rate. Sell a hundred of these and they can easily generate a mill in income. Merch. (Merchant, market, trade) items in the market and be smart about it and again more gold can be generated. With decent legendary gear you could accompany others to get rare loot to again merch. You can on average get 4 a day. Thats 120 a month which equals 1.2 mill.

I have played a lot of MMO games and when you need to pay for membership monthly or get crazy good items by forking out tons of cash with no way of obtaining them in game thats when there is a big problem and gap with pay vs non-pay players.

Heres the accepted facts,

- There are players willing to pay because real life does not allow them the luxury of time to grind. These players make all those unavailable pets available in market for non paying players.
- The community decides the price of an item. If people are willing to buy an arcane pet like Brothers whim for 46 mill then thats the going price. Sammael on the other hand considered the best pet goes for 20 mill approx.. If tomorrow people decide its worth 200k then thats what it will sell for.
- There are players who are lucky and make a lot of gold by selling stuff at the right time or open one grand crate and get an arcane item.
- There are players who cheat others just like real life.
- There are players who grind for days and get lucky with rare drops which they sell while other get nothing.
- There are special event which allow for more plats or gold to be purchased
- There are new pets every event which does not mean you have to own every single one because mostly you will be using only 1-4 at end game.

In the end what I'm saying is there is a way to obtain anything in game if you are willing to pay or grind to get it. Dr. Grimmy has broken down where legendary, Mythic and Arcane stuff drops are. See that post and go hunt if you can't buy it.

If people can't put in the time then don't whine.

[BodMaster]

First off, this will most likely be closed.

Secondly let me get this straight;

1. You truly believe new comers/freemium players should be grateful for what they can't possibly earn themselves, and that, because we don't throw Plat at the game, we should have to wait for it to become available for cheap in the CS? So we can make ends meat by repeatedly selling what we can to have enough for the gear Plat users can buy?

2. Dr. Grimmy's guide is for Elite Cap gear drops, this is the only real way of obtaining drops worth anything.

I believe you missed the whole point of what was said on that thread, being about new comers and lower than cap lvls trying to make ends meat and progress in the game at a steady level.

Plat players on the other hand, can fork out for each campaign, and increase to the equivalence they need to progress at any given time.

Ofc Cap players, and players that continue to Cap at each content update will be able to earn their way to progress each Cap. However the freemium low levels, have no means of obtaining gear that's remotely able to get them by. (Not including, mind numbingly runs through the tombs to hit Cap)

[Fauksuras]

Not gonna agree nor disagree with anything, but a few random thoughts I have.

1) Merching can help people generate gold. However, when everybody merches, who will buy stuff at the price you want for profit? As it is, when I try to sell something I git cheap, I get way too many people giving me lowballs offers or below what I expect because they too are trying to merch.

So when everybody does it will become an endless loop amongst players of trying to get as cheap as possible to sell as high as possible with many of the same people interested in the items (to resell)

2) I used to play a game where all the high level items (although I will admit it didn't have THAT many high level or class specific items ) were sold in an in game store for in game gold.

The items themselves were farmable from some very tough NPCs.
What this accomplished was no player could dictate the price of an item as he saw fit or hoard them because if the price was way too high or or unfair you could buy from NPC.

And yes the NPC prices were high but what it accomplished was nobody could pass that number as it wouldn't achieve anything.

Something like this wouldn't be exactly horrible for Arcane Items and perhaps newer mythics.

Furthemore a player who is no longer amongst us made a suggestion some time ago in this very forum, about a system he came up with to make trades safer, avoid scamming and basically avoid the system where a player or small group or players could dictate prices. Manh people agreed with it and liked the concept.

That thread was closed and deleted I believe. Not sure if they ideas were even considered.

3) Finally, I have said many times amongst friends I would rather pay a fair monthly fee and have everything in game than to spend a mysterious amount of money to hope to get good items.


Just some random thoughts and food for thought. Not agreeing or disagreeing with anybody.

[Rare]

The problem for newer players is that there is no way to farm decent gear for their level. Other than the insanely priced discontinued gear (L15/16 Ranger, Juggernaut, Demonologist - L20/21 Demonlord - L25/26 Sealord, etc), they are basically stuck buying crate gear. Which, for lower level is still pretty expensive (for new players) and isn't even that good.

[BodMaster]

The problem for newer players is that there is no way to farm decent gear for their level. Other than the insanely priced discontinued gear (L15/16 Ranger, Juggernaut, Demonologist - L20/21 Demonlord - L25/26 Sealord, etc), they are basically stuck buying crate gear. Which, for lower level is still pretty expensive (for new players) and isn't even that good.

Exactly my point, and I'm experiencing this first hand. Lucky for me I will get by since I'm not a new comer and have many items that will better me off at Cap. But for the true new freemium players all I see is a struggle.

Imagine at lvl 76/81 Cap, the levelling progression for non plat players will be truly non existent. Isn't it best to tackle this head on now, than to end up like that?

[Desperoto]

A lot thing are true what you're saying. It takes long to get full Myth without paying (Like me)
The first months i just was hoping for luck elixirs from klaas to farm some lockeds, so it toke long to get my pendant.
After that i farmed a lot crates, after that elite, after that arena. Now i have it, it took 3+ months!!
So the ways to get it is:
Patient or Spend

[Amythys]

I agree it can be difficult to gear up without spending plat. I am essentially a no plat player, but I have upgraded mytic armor and helm, a mythic gun and archon ring and I think I do well enough. (I did spend plat to get up to 75 inventory slots and 11 total auction slots on my main, and also the exclusive platinum pets required for the beastmaster title. But that is the extent of my platinum expenditures.) Thanks to tradeable mythic eggs, I also have a mythic pet now (Grimm). Thanks to the story token update, I have more inventory space (though never enough).

Capping your character is a pain, but I was certainly able to cap my main (sorc) and my alt (rogue) both in this season and last. I have never spent any platinum to aid in leveling. I remember being always short gold in the early days. The key is to NEVER feed your pets (just stable), and save up for that first lep pendant. Once you have a lep, you can farm and sell loot. I bought my mythics mostly from locked crate sale proceeds. It just takes time. If you don't spend plat and you don't spend at least an hour or two each day, you are not going to be a full mythic player. However, high quality legendary gear is available at pretty low prices. If you can't afford that, go run Ydra or Brackenridge maps solo. You will gain 50-300 gold per map, and you don't need to spend any potions.

Finding portals is certainly NOT impossible. I usually get them in SS, but I have had a number of portals in Ydra as well. I expect any player is capable of leveling their character high enough to easily solo Ydra maps. Once you find a portal, work with your guild to fill your party. I was actually surprised that the rate of joining portals did not drop more after the unlimited portal exploit was eliminated. Yes, the rate dropped, but not nearly as much as I expected. Help your guild mates out and you should find many portals to join, without spending plat. I certainly do! If your guild does not have active players who invite others to join portals, try to change that by doing it yourself. Otherwise, find a more active guild to join.

[Anarchist]

I am sorry but i have to disagree with bodmaster a low lvl or new freemium player first aim is to get to cap lvl and thats when u really start playing. You can go from lvl 1 to 36 with very very cheap legendaries and few deaths...what i understand is like you want everything already prepared the first time you log in xD.


This coming from someone who did from lvl 1 to 30 with greens,blues and a ribbit<3 so i know how hard it is

[BodMaster]

what i understand is like you want everything already prepared the first time you log in xD.


This coming from someone who did from lvl 1 to 30 with greens,blues and a ribbit<3 so i know how hard it is

No you have totally miss judged my character, and play style. I'm usually the first one that Caps non-lix straight after an update (as people can vow for me), an then again on my 2 other mains.

You're missing the point that, levelling progression needs to be incorporated even at a minimum for freemium just as it is for premium, even if that consists of a lil more hard work put in for the Time vs Money aspect to even apply here.

Sure end-game is the main focus, but some consideration and in-corporation into the levelling progression aswel.

[Kxrma]

Ill stick with my end-game gear
L35 Architech helm of will
L35 Architech armor of will
L35 Architech quills of brutality
Not a rich person.. But at least I try

[Crowsfoot]

Facts:

1) I have never bought plat, or successfully merched.

2) I have:

-A mythic glaive
-upgraded mythic helm
-upgraded mythic armor
-archon ring of potency, str
-amulet of doom

And, several mil of gold stashed away.

---

I started heavilly farming elite using just a sword and shield weapon and champions chain of security last season and made it all the way here. Stop complaining and learn to run elite.

[Kxrma]

I can't do elite

[Samdegreat]

It's pretty easy now... Mythic is so common!
I have never bought platinum and I have full mythic (except weapon) with a lot of gold...

KEY- GOOD FRIENDS- there is a rogue who had 100k last week he joined insomnia guild with the help of generosity he now has 1.4 mill (I was amazed)

P.s I earned all my mythic by farming no merching although I got bored of farming this season (5) I consider myself a pensioner... Living off my pension I simply attempt to merch now (no luck yet)

[Sokpuppet]

Not gonna agree nor disagree with anything, but a few random thoughts I have.

1) Merching can help people generate gold. However, when everybody merches, who will buy stuff at the price you want for profit? As it is, when I try to sell something I git cheap, I get way too many people giving me lowballs offers or below what I expect because they too are trying to merch.

So when everybody does it will become an endless loop amongst players of trying to get as cheap as possible to sell as high as possible with many of the same people interested in the items (to resell)

2) I used to play a game where all the high level items (although I will admit it didn't have THAT many high level or class specific items ) were sold in an in game store for in game gold.

The items themselves were farmable from some very tough NPCs.
What this accomplished was no player could dictate the price of an item as he saw fit or hoard them because if the price was way too high or or unfair you could buy from NPC.

And yes the NPC prices were high but what it accomplished was nobody could pass that number as it wouldn't achieve anything.

Something like this wouldn't be exactly horrible for Arcane Items and perhaps newer mythics.

Furthemore a player who is no longer amongst us made a suggestion some time ago in this very forum, about a system he came up with to make trades safer, avoid scamming and basically avoid the system where a player or small group or players could dictate prices. Manh people agreed with it and liked the concept.

That thread was closed and deleted I believe. Not sure if they ideas were even considered.

3) Finally, I have said many times amongst friends I would rather pay a fair monthly fee and have everything in game than to spend a mysterious amount of money to hope to get good items.


Just some random thoughts and food for thought. Not agreeing or disagreeing with anybody.

Completely agree with the subscription based model. I love Arcane Legends, but I would rather play a subscription based game with a set fee, that way players can't buy there way to the top. Unfortunately, I think there's more money to be made with the in game purchase model, so pretty much everyone will be using that model.

[GoodSyntax]

I don't understand why everyone is so hellbent on achieving Mythic gear.

I've been running elites since....well, forever, and I've never had any mythic items. Even now, I run elite Shuyal in Hellish of Potency gear, with either Epic rings and amulets, or crate rings and amulets. Sometimes, if I find myself dying a few times, I switch out to an Architect set, but generally, I use Hellish for the added DMG. My primary weapons, up until this season when I was allowed to borrow a Mythic bow, I had been using either Quills of Brutality or Devourer Bows.

The point is that in order to make money farming, you have a few choices - farm crates or farm elite.

I find it funny that everyone thinks I'm nuts for running elite in such nooby gear, but as you hear often enough Skill > Gear.

I've tried farming crates a few times, but the monotony and complete lack of challenge always chases me back into elite maps.

Much of the same plays out in PvP as well. Yes, Mythics are a distinct advantage, and it is far more apparent in PvP than PvE, but I've managed to achieve Warmonger status without any Mythics. It is all a matter of practice and technique. Find a decent party (which itself is not an easy thing to do), and have fun.

I just don't get why everyone is so fixated on stats, KDR, Leaderboards, etc. Just play the game, have fun, and if you get some good loot and make some money for better gear, then more power to you.

If you simply aren't comfortable running elites, read one of the many guides in the forums here. A good pull strategy and a decent party can make elite runs a relatively easy thing to accomplish. Then, it is a matter of repetition, to sharpen your techniques and strategy. Just a few weeks ago Elite Golden Puzzleboxes were going for 100k (currently down to 70k because of several guild contests flooding the market). It doesn't take too many of those before you get 1 or 2 million. Elite Golden Warchests and Elite Golden Pirate Chest also hold substantial value, so with an Elite Southern Seas run taking an average of 4-7 minutes (depending on the skill of the party), it doesn't take that many runs to drop something of value.

If you would like, I can join in on some Elite Rooks Nest, Elite Oltgar or other runs and show you the strategies. I wouldn't call any of the elite maps exceptionally difficult if you have the right approach.

[BodMaster]

Since the OP of this thread, clearly missed the direction of the the previous thread, the whole discussion is off base.

We understand that at Cap you can gain access to farm the top tier gear or even gear to get by with. And even easier if you continue to level with the new caps, that goes unsaid. (Along with speed xp farming)

The original issue was the low levels aren't able to gain access to gear that can help them progress as easily as it is for Plat players to just purchase each gear set at each campaign level etc.

At the moment the whole progression of levelling has been lost (Without the cheap work around's). Sure this isn't for everyone but a lot are still troubled by this.

Like I've said previously this is no skin off my back, as I'll most likely join the Cap endgame and the underlying issues will be left where they're. (Out of sight, Out of mind)

Anyway I'm going to bow out of this discussion since the OP is misleading, and the devs have heard the issue, and it's now up to them to do something about it or just leave the whole game based on endgame, with no means of middle ground with the imbalances found in the levelling stages. (Which can/may effect a large number of the player base if not careful at a later stage)

[Snakespeare]

If this is a thread in response to another thread, it should get merged to the other thread. Even if not, this topic is very old and this post really should have been a reply to another thread.

On topic, well, I mostly agree, but since I can't see what you're replying to with the OP (since you did not link it even), I'm not sure I disagree with the thing you're replying to.

[Striderevil]

I run a mage but 2 months ago started a War char. This was around the time when twinks are all the rage and everyone was trying to sell low level elite gear for ridiculous prices. I started of with rare and then got my hands on Knight plate of will. Its only epic but has impressive stats. I then after doing quests bought a cheap legendary weapon. The market has tons of it for less than 5k. You don't need a Mighty Vorpal at twink level to advance. After grinding in mixed parties tombs etc I made it lvl 25. I then invested in a Juggernaut set. Its not expensive to say the least. At around 50k and a vorpal sword lvl 25 for another 50k it was easy to gain excellent armor and weapons. With the addition of Lockeds even a newbie can get 10k right of the bat as a random drop.

Im sorry Bod I dont see how you can say its harder. In fact the presence of locked and Plat players buying it in large quatities have helped lower and non plat players build enough gold easily enough to offset an unfairness they might feel.

Like I said get 4 lockeds a day for a month and you can generate a million easy. In 2 months you can buy a mythic armor. By this time you should be technically able to enter elites and farm.

I did not miss the direction of the previous thread in fact it was simply stated that this game was moving towards a pay as you progress model and I don't feel thats inherently true at all.

Want to make gold easy at lo levels, heres a few easy solutions

Sell Gems, Lockeds, Buy a weapon like vorpal or clever add 2 gems to it and sell it for a ridiculous rate, farm eggs. And now with this event simply join guild members as they enter Tarloks lair and if your lucky to get imbued sell Tarlocks armor for 200k plus, or a Breezaga for a ridiculous price. Accompany the many players in Brackenridge that farm for lockeds and not only level up but have a chance to get decent drops including lockeds as well at low level.

The way to make gold and get items is endless. Lower levels infact at 20- 31 can boss easily because as in wars case the Juggernaut armor for instance is sufficient to easily kill a scaled to level boss.

When I first started playing my mage char there was no locked or gems. Getting 1000 gold at low level was difficult enough. By level 25 I entered elite only to find that my gear was bad apart from the fact that my sorcerer was inherently squishy. It was far more difficult. A clever flamestrike of assault was being traded at 400k - 600k which at that time was really high. If I had lockeds or gems then I could have easily bought one. It took a while to merch and trade to get one. Compared to those days its easier now.

[Roberto077]

Plat (arcanes and mythics) vs. Non-plat (tree branch)

[Striderevil]

Non plat= elite puzzlebox = mythics, arcane