Time For A New Era---Help in the quest to restore PVP

[Caiahar]

Rhinos damage needs to be boosted, but lower health? Isn't their base health, 400, while bears is 600? They could have a decrease in stone skin, the armor buff, and brute force needs to be boosted..level 9 gives 10% dodge and 5 armor (1 dodge every level) as well as summon, -12 dodge and useless -h/p at 6, -18 dodge at 9. Wat. Summon could be changed into a good debuff, like -armor or -dmg. Now that I think about, rhinos only real attacks are their combo (charge redemption) and tempest ._. Needs moar attacks. Might is only for stun :/
Tempest gives too little -hit debuff IMO. -30 hit, but only 45% chance lvl 6 (idk the lvl 9 one), so no wonder fights against bears are almost unwinnable in endgame :/ (bears have -60 hit hs :O and waay more dmg AND health) rhino cant debuff fo its lyfe.

[Rushorgtfo]

Skill level needs to be decreases to a maximum of at least 7 and sets rebalances before actually changing skills themselves.

[Crashy]

I agree with flacs as he mentions when it's bears vs birds, the birds seem more tanky with all those dodge going on compared to a bear.
Bear.bird
It's pretty tough to even hit or touch the bird if their blind shot hits and they continue to dodge. And on top of that they can kite.
Though I'm not saying bear aren't op... Maybe just that we're over exaggerating on bears being op just a tiny little bit?

[Gragorak]

Well written, thanks for a good read.

increase armor of the fiery set
decrease mana shield cool down slightly
increase crit slightly

Full int fiery mage with crit face has already 91 crit while buffed. Increasing it wouldn't really help full int mages, it would just make pallies even more OP than what they are now. IMO, fiery set should have better defensive stats. Currently it has 3 dodge, 219 armor, 26 h/s, 30 m/s. I'd boost dodge up to 7 (same as what sand goddess set has) and boost other defensive stats by 10%, so that they would be 241 armor, 29 h/s, 33 m/s.

Many people say that fox and rhino are underpowered classes, but I don't buy that. I don't have either of those classes at end game yet (soon I have), but I've seen them in pvp and I've PvPed with them a lot in 61-71 level range. They are amazing in ctf, and fox is good in 1v1 fights too if played correctly. However, bandage should be able to free from stuns/roots/ice if ranked 5+ (this would encourage different builds in twinking too) and level 5+ hypnotize should be aoe skill. Its description says it is aoe, but it really isn't. I don't think that rhino's damage should be boosted. Its meant to be tank/support, not tank/support/nuke-them-all!!!!.

End game pvp is also too luckbased now. Skills should be returned to level 6. To prevent everyone having exactly same builds, some sort of passive skill system (like in AL) should be implemented.

[Everyone'sFavMage]

No lol 13 going on 14. Still bad but just bad peers don't judge shh.

STill, I didn't have my first hangover till I was 17

[angeldawn]

Thanks for your hard work and putting it together. It would be nice to see what all the community has to say since the first steps of the nerf was done. It would be great if we could all agree in a few items and have that the next target for STS to complete.

[imxoriginal]

Well written, thanks for a good read.


Full int fiery mage with crit face has already 91 crit while buffed. Increasing it wouldn't really help full int mages, it would just make pallies even more OP than what they are now. IMO, fiery set should have better defensive stats. Currently it has 3 dodge, 219 armor, 26 h/s, 30 m/s. I'd boost dodge up to 7 (same as what sand goddess set has) and boost other defensive stats by 10%, so that they would be 241 armor, 29 h/s, 33 m/s.

Many people say that fox and rhino are underpowered classes, but I don't buy that. I don't have either of those classes at end game yet (soon I have), but I've seen them in pvp and I've PvPed with them a lot in 61-71 level range. They are amazing in ctf, and fox is good in 1v1 fights too if played correctly. However, bandage should be able to free from stuns/roots/ice if ranked 5+ (this would encourage different builds in twinking too) and level 5+ hypnotize should be aoe skill. Its description says it is aoe, but it really isn't. I don't think that rhino's damage should be boosted. Its meant to be tank/support, not tank/support/nuke-them-all!!!!.

End game pvp is also too luckbased now. Skills should be returned to level 6. To prevent everyone having exactly same builds, some sort of passive skill system (like in AL) should be implemented.

I agree with what you stated. I'll add your portion in when I get home. Hopefully with the correct community feedback we can expect a developer to answer.

[imxoriginal]

Thanks for your hard work and putting it together. It would be nice to see what all the community has to say since the first steps of the nerf was done. It would be great if we could all agree in a few items and have that the next target for STS to complete.

Thanks angel. And yeah hopefully something will be done.

Rhinos damage needs to be boosted, but lower health? Isn't their base health, 400, while bears is 600? They could have a decrease in stone skin, the armor buff, and brute force needs to be boosted..level 9 gives 10% dodge and 5 armor (1 dodge every level) as well as summon, -12 dodge and useless -h/p at 6, -18 dodge at 9. Wat. Summon could be changed into a good debuff, like -armor or -dmg. Now that I think about, rhinos only real attacks are their combo (charge redemption) and tempest ._. Needs moar attacks. Might is only for stun :/
Tempest gives too little -hit debuff IMO. -30 hit, but only 45% chance lvl 6 (idk the lvl 9 one), so no wonder fights against bears are almost unwinnable in endgame :/ (bears have -60 hit hs :O and waay more dmg AND health) rhino cant debuff fo its lyfe.

I will be adding sections of this once I get home. Very good insight. Please keep the posts coming.

[Marcoolio]

Only i can say, really good job this far..hope this make some changes. Been pally just so boring and only reason is bears..but now back int and hope best.

[Multibird]

Instead of lowering classes, imo, specifically nerf savage set, and lower dodge on all sets.

[XghostzX]

Nice Imox, after talking to you in game I'm glad you put this together. It reminds me of the one thread I made with putting together all the quotes, but you took it a step further by making it look nicer and adding viable solutions. Great work

[SillyJuan]

This is what Pl needs. Someone to finally speak out with pure facts! Awesome.

[imxoriginal]

Nice Imox, after talking to you in game I'm glad you put this together. It reminds me of the one thread I made with putting together all the quotes, but you took it a step further by making it look nicer and adding viable solutions. Great work

Thanks will

This is what Pl needs. Someone to finally speak out with pure facts! Awesome.

Thanks for your feedback!

[Caiahar]

Birds right now are fine IMO, its just the set that needs nerfing and some of their skills.
Bears, too much dodge, because first, they already have 2 dodge skills. At level 9. Which gives some good dodge. But savage has lots of dodge too, giving bear INSANE dodge, as well as making other classes (pallys and stuff) OP as well. Bears are supposed to dodge yes, but the level 9 buffs and savage dodge is just way too much.
Mages themselves are okay I guess, but the fiery set is just too underpowered compared to the 2 other sets. Bird does what, blast root blind repulse and BOOM mages are dead, alive if they're lucky.

Foxes are IMO good. They can't beat str chars, because of savage, another reason to Nerf savages dodge. Fox just needs a skill to get out of stun, frost, or root. They already do, but Evade does it. I mean, its their BUFF, they cast it first. Its like making a bears iron blood or evasion only do that. So their bandage should get them out.

Rhinos, I have already said some on this matter, but I'll explain a bit further.
1. Why can't they beat str chars?
Well they can't, they don't have reliable debuffs. And I do know they dont kill, but at least make them be able to kill something other than dex chars and int mages. They can't beat savage chars because their dodge debuff totally sucks, -18 dodge lvl 9 Summon is a fail debuff. So if you want to beat other str chars, it should be something like -dmg or something. Or even boost the dodge debuff itself and make it way more higher. Or possible armor debuff, although in the current situation, armor barely counts anymore.
The holy tempest, which is a dmg skill and debuff, doesn't even debuff -hit much, rather, its chance to do it at a certain %. Needs to be higher % and higher -hit.

2. Boost base health to 500.
Yeah yeah, I'm crazy. Putting rhinos health to 500. But if you think about it, a char thats supposed to be str based has lower health than a dex and int based char is weird. Wat. In return for boosting health, the armor buffs could go down a bit.

3. More dodge.
Wow, did I just say that? Yep I did. Brute force needs to have more dodge, since its only thing it can be used for (other than 5 armor..pfff) its 10 dodge at lvl 9. WAT. Guardian doesn't need more dodge, IMO a skill that acts as a second heal and gives you armor is awesome. But if Brute force gave more dodge, wouldn't rhino be OP with savage? Hm, ANOTHER reason to Nerf savages dodge.

I can't think of much anymore, but when I do, ill post.

[Rushorgtfo]

Damage can reach 600-700 .. Why is health still 500? Base health never changed sense pvp came out 35 cap yet every other stat has... Wonder why it's so unbalanced?

[Schnitzel]

i have to say:
Nice font on the part that said "birds bears mages foxes rhinos"

Eventhough i just skimmed through this thread, i think those are great ideas

[imxoriginal]

Birds right now are fine IMO, its just the set that needs nerfing and some of their skills.
Bears, too much dodge, because first, they already have 2 dodge skills. At level 9. Which gives some good dodge. But savage has lots of dodge too, giving bear INSANE dodge, as well as making other classes (pallys and stuff) OP as well. Bears are supposed to dodge yes, but the level 9 buffs and savage dodge is just way too much.
Mages themselves are okay I guess, but the fiery set is just too underpowered compared to the 2 other sets. Bird does what, blast root blind repulse and BOOM mages are dead, alive if they're lucky.

Foxes are IMO good. They can't beat str chars, because of savage, another reason to Nerf savages dodge. Fox just needs a skill to get out of stun, frost, or root. They already do, but Evade does it. I mean, its their BUFF, they cast it first. Its like making a bears iron blood or evasion only do that. So their bandage should get them out.

Rhinos, I have already said some on this matter, but I'll explain a bit further.
1. Why can't they beat str chars?
Well they can't, they don't have reliable debuffs. And I do know they dont kill, but at least make them be able to kill something other than dex chars and int mages. They can't beat savage chars because their dodge debuff totally sucks, -18 dodge lvl 9 Summon is a fail debuff. So if you want to beat other str chars, it should be something like -dmg or something. Or even boost the dodge debuff itself and make it way more higher. Or possible armor debuff, although in the current situation, armor barely counts anymore.
The holy tempest, which is a dmg skill and debuff, doesn't even debuff -hit much, rather, its chance to do it at a certain %. Needs to be higher % and higher -hit.

2. Boost base health to 500.
Yeah yeah, I'm crazy. Putting rhinos health to 500. But if you think about it, a char thats supposed to be str based has lower health than a dex and int based char is weird. Wat. In return for boosting health, the armor buffs could go down a bit.

3. More dodge.
Wow, did I just say that? Yep I did. Brute force needs to have more dodge, since its only thing it can be used for (other than 5 armor..pfff) its 10 dodge at lvl 9. WAT. Guardian doesn't need more dodge, IMO a skill that acts as a second heal and gives you armor is awesome. But if Brute force gave more dodge, wouldn't rhino be OP with savage? Hm, ANOTHER reason to Nerf savages dodge.

I can't think of much anymore, but when I do, ill post.

Thanks for taking the time to write that shadow. I took the time to add that to the thread under the "Rhinos" section. Everyone, stuff like what shadow said are the sort of feedback I am looking for. I am doing this so they developers have it easy as possible to work with balancing. For example, if we provide them with the exact specifics on what has to be changed we can potentially be looking at a fix to pvp. This thread is going to take sometime to develop fully. We all want this perfect. We need a plan that will not only fix our pvp situation, but will also work in future caps (if there are any). I would love to hear from anyone in game, through private messages, or even through skype about this dilemma. You can catch me in game on, Tank 76 bird. Just send me a pm and I'll add you.

[Reunegade]

I have an idea, make health 10x the amount now.

1. It doesn't take that much effort for StG,
2. Even if a class dodge haxes, it doesn't matter as much because now it takes 1-2 combos (bird v bird) instead of 1-2 skills,
3. And if possible, make bears taunt skill give 300 health (stacked 600) instead of the dodge, and give evade 750 health,
4. Separates the skilled and the weak

[Crashy]

All we can do is hope for STS to read this.
Maybe start their own thread for more suggestions.
And make PVP changes ASAP!
/Small changes from time to time, continuing to improve the pvp balance/set balance would also be great.
I hope STS will read Imxoriginal's awesome thread. And apply the changes in PL for pvp/ctf soon.

[imxoriginal]

I have an idea, make health 10x the amount now.

1. It doesn't take that much effort for StG,
2. Even if a class dodge haxes, it doesn't matter as much because now it takes 1-2 combos (bird v bird) instead of 1-2 skills,
3. And if possible, make bears taunt skill give 300 health (stacked 600) instead of the dodge, and give evade 750 health,
4. Separates the skilled and the weak

Isn't all that doing is creating extremely LONG fights for bears vs bears?? We would still have the problem of op damage? Plus bears would be even more powerful along with pallys. Unless, they fixed sets. I could then see how this might apply. Although the numbers might need to be tweaked a little.