My thoughts on twinks and leaderboards

[xcainnblecterx]

Nobody talked about mythics or arcanes.
The issue here is the exploit of what supposed to be a legal competition but instead transformed into a "bug exploit".

Dummy farming is what is being discussed.

Dividing PvP into mythic and non mythic is not the best solution because mythic and arcane users worked hard or spend hard to gain their advantage so they have the rights to use them.


Again dividing PvP into twink leaderboard and endgame leaderboard is not the best solution cause the main problem of dummy farming will still persist.

Actually the discussion is twinks being on leader bords for timed runs and other stuff.

[Sky_is_epicgearz]

Actually the discussion is twinks being on leader bords for timed runs and other stuff.

Good news you're both right! :3

[Fauksuras]

Not gonna quote all that dribble, but to reply to you. I'm not (nor is anybody) rallying behind getting rid of twink pvp. What is being discussed is the vast quantity of dummy farmers at twink levels and how the leaderboard should be something for end game.

There is a reason most of all categories are elite runs and the main determining factor in top guild rank are achievements (most twinks can't conceivably reach even 10k aps unless they finally decide to level up). The only reason Hauntlet is achievable is because there's no elite version.

If you still don't understand it. Keep the leaderboard for the "big" kids.

PS The idea of everybody at eng game getting their eq via crates is laughable there are plenty of people who got their items (mind you many not arcane by being smart with their in game gold)

2nd PS If leaderboards don't matter to you then I don't see what is your problem with the idea of a leaderboard exclusive for end gamers.

[obee]

Yeah they worked hard for it, but some people can't get platinum. I'm not old enough for a credit card and those mythic and arcane people got lucky on their locks

[Ishtmeet]

Nobody talked about mythics or arcanes.
The issue here is the exploit of what supposed to be a legal competition but instead transformed into a "bug exploit".

Dummy farming is what is being discussed.

Dividing PvP into mythic and non mythic is not the best solution because mythic and arcane users worked hard or spend hard to gain their advantage so they have the rights to use them.


Again dividing PvP into twink leaderboard and endgame leaderboard is not the best solution cause the main problem of dummy farming will still persist.

I have seeen dummies at endgame, wanna know names? Everyone knows!!
Twink shd not be acused by dummy farming. SOme hard working twinks are there too.

[obee]

PVP isn't fun win one person dominates because of freaking mythic and arcane. That's why we have twinks. Much easier and much fun. I prefer endgame for pve. Also, you have those people who spend a ridicolous amount of money on this game. OF COURSE THEY ARE GOING TO GET MYTHIC. They didn't "work hard", they just used their real money like a piece of cake. The thing is, not everyone can do that

[Ishtmeet]

Not gonna quote all that dribble, but to reply to you. I'm not (nor is anybody) rallying behind getting rid of twink pvp. What is being discussed is the vast quantity of dummy farmers at twink levels and how the leaderboard should be something for end game.

There is a reason most of all categories are elite runs and the main determining factor in top guild rank are achievements (most twinks can't conceivably reach even 10k aps unless they finally decide to level up). The only reason Hauntlet is achievable is because there's no elite version.

If you still don't understand it. Keep the leaderboard for the "big" kids.

PS The idea of everybody at eng game getting their eq via crates is laughable there are plenty of people who got their items (mind you many not arcane by being smart with their in game gold)

2nd PS If leaderboards don't matter to you then I don't see what is your problem with the idea of a leaderboard exclusive for end gamers.

Hauntled is available coz there is no elite version... HUH..
Don't talk about low lvl brackets if u never played it. I've got mythic endgame too, but twink is better for fun. Why there should not be ldrboards for those who worked hard at twink? Big kids u call lvl 35+??
Ok, if u want leaderboards for endgamers only, Remove low lvl PvP like elites, and remove platinum from game to make it fair at endgame.

[Otahaanak]

PvP is a joke. Period.

In every other online game that I have played the matches are equal because ALL players have the exact same opportunity to obtain the top gear. And matches are open based on that criteria alone.

The argument that people 'worked hard' for Sam and all Arcane/mythic so they should be allowed to farm under equipped players is simply foolish and self centered.

It had been said (and ignored) many times that for a true PVP environment to exist the gear has to be equitable. Only when that is enforced will the matches truly be PvP or better - skill vs skill. As it stands now it should be called EvE - equipment vs equipment

Lock the rooms down based on gear and you will open up PvP for the enjoyment of all, not just the select few.

Regarding "dummy farming" - I see no answer.

[Otahaanak]

Sorry Fauk, for weaving off track a bit :-)

To your point on twinks, I agree - but what I don't understand is why STS won't simply separate the leader boards. STS listens when people whine about a pet they pay 30 million for, but won't respond on this topic.

[Fauksuras]

Generalizing the word "twinks" with "cheaters" is a little shallow, Most of these guys arent true "twinks", they are mostly half geared players who farm their alts 24/7. The word twink means one who is dedicated to strictly use their character as a player vs player toon and being highly dominant in pvp with Best Available Gear, which means they are highly competitive. Cheaters who use alts on this game to get kills, most of them are not true twinks, Like i said, generalizing twinks with cheaters isent necessarily 100% correct. But i see your frustration and i dont blame you at all These people will get caught and banned, its easy to tell who is cheating 90% of the time.

You're right, it is a shallow choice on my part to generalize all twinks like that and I apologize. I tried to target two issues at the same time and it's confusing people.

The main issue here is dummy farmers. It is wrong at any level period and STS should in fact do something.

As Falmear mentioned there are some known end game dummy farmers (and some who don't use dummy account but offer players money and items in exchange for getting farmed say 1k times).
The thing is these guys at end game usually get caught. The ones in twink level since twink naturally attracts a niche crowd (heck I sometimes twink with my mage for fun and I'm yet to ever join a full game) it is easier to farm such accounts or people there. The proof is in these people on the leaderboard that when you (by sheer luck) spot them in a town you see their KDR and its something unreal. If you want some specific names PM me in game and I can give you at least 4 names.

The reason I bring up twinks is a (short sighted) attempt on my part to come up with a partial solution by making the leaderboards end game, because as mentioned earlier, the end game farmers are well known and easy to "chase off" games. It is a short term solution and won't really change things but the core problem is in fact dummy farming.

With that said, regardless of cheaters, I still believe PVP leaderboards should be divided by brackets if nothing else. It's not like say boxing or MMA have just one giant weight class.

[Fauksuras]

PvP is a joke. Period.

In every other online game that I have played the matches are equal because ALL players have the exact same opportunity to obtain the top gear. And matches are open based on that criteria alone.

The argument that people 'worked hard' for Sam and all Arcane/mythic so they should be allowed to farm under equipped players is simply foolish and self centered.

It had been said (and ignored) many times that for a true PVP environment to exist the gear has to be equitable. Only when that is enforced will the matches truly be PvP or better - skill vs skill. As it stands now it should be called EvE - equipment vs equipment

Lock the rooms down based on gear and you will open up PvP for the enjoyment of all, not just the select few.

Regarding "dummy farming" - I see no answer.

Right now Delphina is trying something similar with the "Legends of the Week" concept, but even then equipment is important since rings can be legendary and not everybody can afford the best archons (at end game anyway). Im thorn because if somebody paid top gold (or real life money) for their gear they should be able to see the fruits of their investment but on the flip side I can see how that's intimidating or disheartening for new comers or not so lucky people.

A solution could be something like many PC and console games use when playing multiplayer. There's a ranked mode which is used for leaderboards and a such and a "player match" mode where whatever happens is just for fun. Maybe have ranked mode (or vice versa) give you an already established set to use for that match while the other mode is more of a free for all allowing you to use your own equipment.

Of course that might be too much for a game where devs aren't that concerned with PVP in the first place but I feel they should put more weight into it, because many players after they obtain their best gear (by whichever means they may be) will get bored and inevitably turn to PVP and will find...whatever this is.

[Anarchist]

I have seeen dummies at endgame, wanna know names? Everyone knows!!
Twink shd not be acused by dummy farming. SOme hard working twinks are there too.

Bro you are talking to someone currently playing twink Lv15 till dragon enclave...After 1+ month i assure you i am sick and tired of the amount of dummykillers i see on twink levels but i am also sure onest end gamers are tired of dummyfarmers at end level.

So in conclusion i am not agaisnt twinks what i don't like is DUMMY FARMING and i am certain stratifying LB in different levels won't solve anything.

[TheMightyFeusalet]

There were a couple others including myself, who made threads that the leaderboards should only be available to the Lv. 35-36 people. No response from dev.

There should be just 2 different leaderbords -> 1 for lvl 35- and 1 for lvl 35+

[Anarchist]

PvP is a joke. Period.

In every other online game that I have played the matches are equal because ALL players have the exact same opportunity to obtain the top gear. And matches are open based on that criteria alone.

The argument that people 'worked hard' for Sam and all Arcane/mythic so they should be allowed to farm under equipped players is simply foolish and self centered.

It had been said (and ignored) many times that for a true PVP environment to exist the gear has to be equitable. Only when that is enforced will the matches truly be PvP or better - skill vs skill. As it stands now it should be called EvE - equipment vs equipment

Lock the rooms down based on gear and you will open up PvP for the enjoyment of all, not just the select few.

Regarding "dummy farming" - I see no answer.

The basic of PvP is diversificatio, we confront our different gear and skill to see who is the strongest if everything is similar or identical what is the point of fighting???

I don't know which mmorpg's you played but modern mmorpgs have learnt that making pvp based on the gear and not the skills brings: more money, more competition and keeps in store a potencial huge amount for more fun.


What i do agree on is that everyone should have a chance of getting the best gears and
you know what?

That is possible in Arcane Legends, if you really know how to play it.

The only thing that differentiate crate openers from a non crate openers is amount of time you use in accumulating your gold.

As a non crate opener i can assure you gold will come for mythic gears if you know how to play and even though you don't open crates but if you can't wait then buy plats and open crates to speed up the process or
.
.
.
go play LOL.

@OP sorry for going Off topic.

[Fauksuras]

The basic of PvP is diversificatio, we confront our different gear and skill to see who is the strongest if everything is similar or identical what is the point of fighting???

I don't know which mmorpg's you played but modern mmorpgs have learnt that making pvp based on the gear and not the skills brings: more money, more competition and keeps in store a potencial huge amount for more fun.


What i do agree on is that everyone should have a chance of getting the best gears and
you know what?

That is possible in Arcane Legends, if you really know how to play it.

The only thing that differentiate crate openers from a non crate openers is amount of time you use in accumulating your gold.

As a non crate opener i can assure you gold will come for mythic gears if you know how to play and even though you don't open crates but if you can't wait then buy plats and open crates to speed up the process or
.
.
.
go play LOL.

@OP sorry for going Off topic.

On an unrelated note due to the bad taste this whole situation left in my mouth I have pretty much stopped playing, simply login to say hi to guildies and kill a few people in TDM and leave. Been playing DOTA 2 which I recommend to anybody.

It just took the desire out of me to see my name every day fall lower and finally gone and in place...well people who are probably known (or probably not) at whatever level they are in. When expansion hits I'll check it out and if it's worth it I'll stay in PVE until (if) STS decides to take a long solid look into PVP.

[Desperoto]

I'm not against twinking, but a lot twinks dont deserve their spot compared to endgamers who got their kills with fair fights and not with dummy farm or farming some beginning players with epic gear and barney. They should add a system like: CtF kills 5-11 CtF kills 12-21 etc..

[Samdegreat]

I'm not against twinking, but a lot twinks dont deserve their spot compared to endgamers who got their kills with fair fights and not with dummy farm or farming some beginning players with epic gear and barney. They should add a system like: CtF kills 5-11 CtF kills 12-21 etc..

Make a leaderboard for the date you joined based on which season you joined so you should roughly be on the same level unless you spent plat... ( either based on season or as mentioned above each expansion (1-16, 17-21, 22-26,27-31,32-36))

This will allow new players to gain a place, also most twinks are endgamers and began in season 2-3?

[Imjebus]

Uhh my very first account was a lvl10 twink....I later capped it to lvl16 (only cap I've ever done) and then I have twinked at lvl10 ever since then. Never touched a dummy and I try not to go after the noobs that walk around with no armor (unless they gang me or don't stop attacking me xD). Yes there's some twinks that do use dummies to get on the leaderboard but news flash, so do endgame characters.

To say that the game is meant to go to the max level is just ridiculous. If that was the case why would they keep adding in new low level gear? Almost every game that has the PvP feature has a high population of people that stay at the lower level. Basically what's being suggested in this thread is that low leveled people should be punished, which is quite ignorant. The people that truly should be punished are those who abuse the system. Either that or STS needs to find a way to rework the PvP system.

[Fauksuras]

Uhh my very first account was a lvl10 twink....I later capped it to lvl16 (only cap I've ever done) and then I have twinked at lvl10 ever since then. Never touched a dummy and I try not to go after the noobs that walk around with no armor (unless they gang me or don't stop attacking me xD). Yes there's some twinks that do use dummies to get on the leaderboard but news flash, so do endgame characters.

To say that the game is meant to go to the max level is just ridiculous. If that was the case why would they keep adding in new low level gear? Almost every game that has the PvP feature has a high population of people that stay at the lower level. Basically what's being suggested in this thread is that low leveled people should be punished, which is quite ignorant. The people that truly should be punished are those who abuse the system. Either that or STS needs to find a way to rework the PvP system.

The new gear you talk about is not exactly being introduced for low levels to stay there. Obviously new players come in all the time, are they supposed to be naked?

I already apologized for generalizing and mixing what is basically two different topics in one.

With that said I find twinking stupid, thats my personal opinion and affects others people's preferences in no way. I have a low level mage I got bored leveling and I go to pvp from time to time and what happens there is not my cup of tea.

But on your last sentence I agree, STS are the only ones who can do something.

Edit. Autocorrect thought I meant 'thinking' instead of 'twinking' (and it throught so again)

[Desperoto]

Uhh my very first account was a lvl10 twink....I later capped it to lvl16 (only cap I've ever done) and then I have twinked at lvl10 ever since then. Never touched a dummy and I try not to go after the noobs that walk around with no armor (unless they gang me or don't stop attacking me xD). Yes there's some twinks that do use dummies to get on the leaderboard but news flash, so do endgame characters.

To say that the game is meant to go to the max level is just ridiculous. If that was the case why would they keep adding in new low level gear? Almost every game that has the PvP feature has a high population of people that stay at the lower level. Basically what's being suggested in this thread is that low leveled people should be punished, which is quite ignorant. The people that truly should be punished are those who abuse the system. Either that or STS needs to find a way to rework the PvP system.

The reason why they add low level gear is simple. What will happen if a new player decides to open a locked crate he just looted and he loots lvl 36 stuff? He will get mad!