Current Spec: After Free Respec Testing

[Crowsfoot]

My most current Spec (a variation of the original post's):

Skills:
5/5 HoR
5/5 VB
5/5 Jugg
4/5 WM, no cripple
3/5 CS, no push back and no decimate
4/5 Axe, no stun

Passive:
5/5 Str
5/5 Armor
4/5 Dex

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Here is my current spec. This spec is designed in adaptation to the new Elite Tindirin maps while still being speced well enough to run Nordor and Shuyal elite. This spec is specifically for running elite, not PvP. As such, PvP centered advice to changing this spec will be ignored in the main post (this post), but are welcomed in the comments in case readers are looking for a hybrid spec rather than purely elite.

Pictures have been added to show how to step by step spec your end game warrior for elite. Additionally, Pictures have been added in the third section to show what maps to use for which situations.

Skills:
5/5 HoR
5/5 VB
4/5 WM, no cripple
3/5 CS, upgrade extra target and feeble only
4/5 axe, no stun
4/5 jugg, no taunt

Passive:
5/5 Str
5/5 Armor
5/5 Damage

*Note: stun immunity in jugg and extra target in CS are "throw away points." If you think they are beter spent somewhere else, feel free to change where those points are used.

Furthermore, axe may be replaced with SS. Upgrade all but mana return in SS if you decide to use SS over axe. However, the above spec is suggested. SS is a better choice for doing regular maps but it is unneeded against elite mobs if both WM and CS are speced. Finally, axe is far superior to SS in boss fights.


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Step by Step Respec


















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Here are the maps I use, and where.

For Most Mobs (regular and elite):


For Strenuous Elite Tindirin Mobs:


For Elite Shuyal Mobs:


For Most Bosses:


*Note: If the boss spawns mobs (like the spiders in the arena), use the spec for "Most Mobs." Axe is very hard to aim, it has a tendency to miss the intended target when more than three possible targets are within range. Due to this, and Axe's long cool down, it makes more sense to use WM on bosses who spawn mobs that could intercept axe.

[tankk]

Nice thread crow!

[Newcomx]

Crow.. u dont use axe throw now?

[Crowsfoot]

Crow.. u dont use axe throw now?

Can't fit it in. O have considered dropping SS and stun immunity from Jugg to get it though. Or do 4/5 axe (no stun) and 1/5 SS with upgrades dropped and no stun immunity in jugg.

It's a hard call. Axe is a luxury and not required. However, I love axe in a boss fight

[tankk]

Wait...chest splitter burns a lot of mana...

[shinjo]

When I upgrade armor and dmg in passive, why does my armor value and dmg value not change?

I dont know if it really works. Been trying to solo elite kraken to test my attack and defense, with and without upgrade, couldnt see any differences....

Can u help me to test it crow?

[Jiarijiba]

Current understanding seems to be that passive damage is overrun by dmg % given by pet. Don't know which pets OP uses, but I just dumped passive dmg because of I mostly use Abaddon and Grimm which both give more than 5 % dmg.

@Shinjo, there is a well known bug in the damage stats display.

[Crowsfoot]

When I upgrade armor and dmg in passive, why does my armor value and dmg value not change?

I dont know if it really works. Been trying to solo elite kraken to test my attack and defense, with and without upgrade, couldnt see any differences....

Can u help me to test it crow?

If you have a pet that grants a percentage based damage buff greater than 5%, passive damage does nothing. However, when VB is cast, +25% damage, passive is applied so that VB is buffing +30% damage. From what I can find/tell pets (like flap jack) do not stack with VB but passive does.

I use Samael, Koko, Slag, Grimm, and Prance when tanking. When I use armor pets like Prance and Koko, the passive damage is a nice boost. No pet, that I use, offers a passive armor increase. Glacian does buff +10% armor with its ability, but I cannot confirm it does not stack with passive armor. Armor is especially hard to calculate since it has a nonlinear progression in damage resistance.

My advice is to get at least passive armor if you are a tank. However, you may want to drop 5/5 passive armor for 5/5 axe or 5/5 passive crit chance.

[Crowsfoot]

Wait...chest splitter burns a lot of mana...

I only have mana issues at boss fights. I use CS as more of a "check" skill in replacement of my basic attack to regain aggro I may have lost to a rogue or mage. I don't just spam it. However, I do spam CS when a rogue uses a trap and pulls all the mobs in one spot. I have pretty much guaranteed 100% aggro when this happens so little skill is needed.

*Tip: ​don't charge CS and don't spam it frivolously.

[Jirikjurasek]

...However, when VB is cast, +25% damage, passive is applied so that VB is buffing +30% damage. From what I can find/tell pets (like flap jack) do not stack with VB but passive does.

I use Samael, Koko, Slag, Grimm, and Prance when tanking. When I use armor pets like Prance and Koko, the passive damage is a nice boost. No pet, that I use, offers a passive armor increase. Glacian does buff +10% armor with its ability, but I cannot confirm it does not stack with passive armor. Armor is especially hard to calculate since it has a nonlinear progression in damage resistance.

My advice is to get at least passive armor if you are a tank. However, you may want to drop 5/5 passive armor for 5/5 axe or 5/5 passive crit chance.

How do you know, that VB and passive dmg bonus are stackable? Do you mean that VB is only spell throught all Arcane Legends which stack with passive bonus? I don´t think so.

Dmg passive for shield users are useless

*Tip: ​don't charge CS and don't spam it frivolously.

You change your mind that some mobs are taunt-able only with charged skills?

[greekAL]

Crown what gear you use man? You prefer magma assault or magma will weapon with this build?

[Crowsfoot]

How do you know, that VB and passive dmg bonus are stackable? Do you mean that VB is only spell throught all Arcane Legends which stack with passive bonus? I don´t think so.

Dmg passive for shield users are useless

Proedures
1) Respec your character with only CS unlocked (any skill works), no other skill points used.
2) Run an elite map and test damage output on a single mob​ via isolating it (I did elite Harbor)
3) Reapeat until an adaquit number of trial have been executed (I did 20)
4) Find the average damage per attack (I used CS since it has a short cool down) round to two SigFigs.
5) Repeat steps 2-4 with a lvl1 pet that has a percentage based damage increase only as its happiness bonus (any let's with additional base stat [Str, Int, or Dex] in its happiness bonus are unacceptable) a passive with no debuffs (I used Vladd).
6) Dismiss pet and spec 5/5 passive Damage.
7) Repeat steps 2-4.
8) Summon the same pet from step 5.
9) Repeat steps 2-4
10) Dismiss pet.
11) Spec 3/5 VB (damage upgrade, and extended duration ONLY)
12) Repeat steps 2-4 with VB active.
13) Summon your pet from step 6.
14) Repeat steps 2-4 with VB active.
15) Respec to remove 5/5 passive damage. Keep all other specifications the same.
16) Repeat Steps 2-4 with VB active.
17) Dismiss pet.
18) Repeat Steps 2-4 with VB active.
19) compare the damage output of all trials (eg: CS only, CS pet, CS passive, CS pet and passive, CS VB, CS VB and pet, CS VB and passive, CS Full)
20) Note any significant increases in damage.
21) Record finding.

*Notes:
- Reset the isolated mob whenever his HP is low.
- Throw out any data points that were critical hits.
- Precise figures aren't vital for the results since the possible damage output is a range. Any average with a difference of 30 is considered significant (error range range of 1-16 points per average since I used 2 SigFigs).

Dmg passive for shield users are useless

My advice is to get at least passive armor if you are a tank. However, you may want to drop 5/5 passive armor for 5/5 axe or 5/5 passive crit chance.

Really man? Read my posts, I make them for a reason!

You change your mind that some mobs are taunt-able only with charged skills?

I use CS on the archers to maintain aggro from this troop which is affected when CS isn't charged and is often taunted by rogues and mages. Since CS is not my only taunting attack it isn't vital to charge unlik somene who doesn't use WM. Additionally, I challenhe you to point out where I said CS taunted all mobs even when unharged. It is a major peeve of mine thatyou claim me to male statements I never have. If you EVER accuse someone of lying or changing their mind,quotethe new text. If that text doesn't exist, which in this case it doesn't, you are purely being slanderous.

Response in bold

[Crowsfoot]

Crown what gear you use man? You prefer magma assault or magma will weapon with this build?

I would suggest a magma claymore of will, for elite, because not the armor. I am currently using a Conquistador shield weapon and waiting for the new lvl41 mythic weapon (sold my glaive ). I want the magma claymore of will, but I am too stingy to buy one knowing I am getting the mythic weapon as soon as it is released.

[shinjo]

Thanks to everyone here for the helps. Very useful discussion! After giving it a deep thought and do some tests, here is my final build atm:

Active skills:
HOR 5/5
VB 5/5
Jugg 5/5
WM 4/5, no snare upgrade
CS 3/5, upgrade extra target and feble
SS 3/5, upgrade area and dmg

Passive:
Str 5/5
Armor 5/5
Int 5/5

I decided to have INT instead of DMG because I think it helps me deal more dmg over time.

My logic is having 250 extra mana allow me to do more active skills before I hit mana potion. Having larger mana pool also allow me to pot more efficiently. Less taps on mana pots means I can tap more health pot to ensure my group safety, or do more normal attacks (not to mention if I have my active skill ready).

Second thought, when I use pets with dmg % bonus, I can have the best of both world, yay!

Once again thanks to OP of this discussion crowsfoot, and everyone else who had given their thought. I really appreciate your help guys!

[Crowsfoot]

Thanks to everyone here for the helps. Very useful discussion! After giving it a deep thought and do some tests, here is my final build atm:

Active skills:
HOR 5/5
VB 5/5
Jugg 5/5
WM 4/5, no snare upgrade
CS 3/5, upgrade extra target and feble
SS 3/5, upgrade area and dmg

Passive:
Str 5/5
Armor 5/5
Int 5/5

I decided to have INT instead of DMG because I think it helps me deal more dmg over time.

My logic is having 250 extra mana allow me to do more active skills before I hit mana potion. Having larger mana pool also allow me to pot more efficiently. Less taps on mana pots means I can tap more health pot to ensure my group safety, or do more normal attacks (not to mention if I have my active skill ready).

Second thought, when I use pets with dmg % bonus, I can have the best of both world, yay!

Once again thanks to OP of this discussion crowsfoot, and everyone else who had given their thought. I really appreciate your help guys!

Works, but if your mana pool was 850+ without passive Int I would strongly suggest a different passive. Either way, I'm not a fan of passive Int. It's a minor impact on performance and your skills seem well rounded.

I will say I am in a toss up between SS and axe. I can't decide which variation of my spec I like.

[shinjo]

Works, but if your mana pool was 850+ without passive Int I would strongly suggest a different passive. Either way, I'm not a fan of passive Int. It's a minor impact on performance and your skills seem well rounded.

I will say I am in a toss up between SS and axe. I can't decide which variation of my spec I like.

Agree, neither passive dmg nor passive int give huge impact on performance. Say we deal 10k total dmg on boss, 5% dmg bonus only give 500 more dmg that can be achieved from few extra normal attacks (less taps on mana pot allow us to do more normal attacks = more chance to proc weapon skill).

But once again its not something that give huge impact on our performance, just a little bonus

For those who wear magma set of tactics, you might allocate your points into passive crit.

5% crit from passive
3.09% crit from weapon
3.09% crit from helm
3.09% crit from armor
1.28% crit from troll ring of potency (if you are lucky to have one)
5-10% crit from pet

Sum it all and you have 20-25% passive crit, wow!

[supersyan]

hmm y ss 4/5? need only 3/5 imo. to get that extra range need to charge ss
hmm and y need hor 5/5? need only 4/5. no need extra range cause if u have taunt it taunts enemies withing 8 m

and passive dmg 5/5?

[Jirikjurasek]

...Response in bold

I stop reading at 4th point. If I undress all gear, my CS dmg is 17-21. So: average dmg is 19, difference from minimum and maximum dmg is 2 => it is 10% difference and you try to proof 5% dmg boost? If I count that 20 values have no informational value...

Challenge accepted (However, I never say nothink like this, If I do, you can accept another chalenge )

In tindirn maps, the mobs immune to uncharged taunts (as tested with uncharged WM and assuming that correlates to the affect of uncharged CS upon them as well) are: komodo dragons, snakes, green guys, and healers when they have shields. For those unaware, that's over half the mobs in any map besides map 1 and 2 tindirin.

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As of season 2, you needed to charge CS to use the additional target upgrade. I can confirm that you still need to charge WM to use extended range.

*Tip: ​don't charge CS and don't spam it frivolously.

See what I talked about?

Really man? Read my posts, I make them for a reason!​

No offensive, but you wrote some observation from season 2, so I believe you have to play long time and you discover that CS has taunt few month ago (It is just one example). I do things on my own and try correct some wrong informations.

Peace&Love for all

[Crowsfoot]

Agree, neither passive dmg nor passive int give huge impact on performance. Say we deal 10k total dmg on boss, 5% dmg bonus only give 500 more dmg that can be achieved from few extra normal attacks (less taps on mana pot allow us to do more normal attacks = more chance to proc weapon skill).

But once again its not something that give huge impact on our performance, just a little bonus

For those who wear magma set of tactics, you might allocate your points into passive crit.

5% crit from passive
3.09% crit from weapon
3.09% crit from helm
3.09% crit from armor
1.28% crit from troll ring of potency (if you are lucky to have one)
5-10% crit from pet

Sum it all and you have 20-25% passive crit, wow!

My crit rate is 4% without passive. VB is +25% and Samael is +10%. at 39% I don't think 5% is worth it, IMO

[Crowsfoot]

I stop reading at 4th point. If I undress all gear, my CS dmg is 17-21. So: average dmg is 19, difference from minimum and maximum dmg is 2 => it is 10% difference and you try to proof 5% dmg boost? If I count that 20 values have no informational value...

Challenge accepted (However, I never say nothink like this, If I do, you can accept another chalenge )


Thats a mathmatical proof, not physical.

Einstein had to test his theory of relativity several timesin oractice by comparing the stars at night to the stars during a solar eclipse to see if the gravity of thesun bended light as predicted. Hewas wrong several times before being right. You need to test everything not just make asumptions. Most damge progression in this game is nonlinear so unless you have the exact formula, you need to test this.


See what I talked about?
Explains a lot actually. It explains why I keep only hitting 3 targets. I thought I was just a noob at using CS and practuce wouldfix it. It makes this upgrade a throw away point. But, thank you for giving evidence.


No offensive, but you wrote some observation from season 2, so I believe you have to play long time and you discover that CS has taunt few month ago (It is just one example). I do things on my own and try correct some wrong informations.
And I acknowledged I was wrong. The desription of CS taunting is in the "artsy-fartsy" description I wa too lazy to read. I apologized to Arggggg. You have been wrong many times as well: WM being a reverse taunt, Jugg healing based on armor, and VB not buffing HoR. It happens. I'm not perfect and don't claim to be. If you do what you did above with defending how I wasted a point on CS I will, by al means, be happy with your posts. Anything corrections that are supported are welcome.
Peace&Love for all

Response in bold.

So, I went to get some screen shots of the "artsy-fartsy" skill descriptions and I now feel even dumber.

Here are the few that made me think these descriptions were worthless:







Here's the one I hadn't read and made myself look foolish for not.



And then, because I realized I had still never read every description, I found this.



I will be testing that HP return later. I've never noticed it or this description is wrong. Either way, I'm glad I read it (finally).