End Game Balance Discussion

[Waug]

unnerf birds sounds better than nerfing both savage and bears, but if unnerf is working, why did stg nerf the birds last year? if they unnerf it, what if people cry again? you know, the new trend... pfffff

y u can't think above nerf and unnerf its not my subjuct in main post here.

let me simply, assume someone got op due to mechanical fault, than u nerfed it, now if u gonna eliminate/repair that fault then wouldn't be double nerf? one manual nerf + one due to repair.

[cryforop]

y u can't think above nerf and unnerf its not my subjuct in main post here.

let me simply, assume someone got op due to mechanical fault, than u nerfed it, now if u gonna eliminate/repair that fault then wouldn't be double nerf? one manual nerf + one due to repair.

i got your point but i will choose keep the stat now, why changing it? it is what it is.

[Waug]

^ its what ruined pvp

[cryforop]

^ its what ruined pvp

before the nerf last year, people said pvp was unbalanced too. what's the difference? people just complain, there is no way out. so why changing any thing, so listening to those people? they are customers of stg, i am a customer of stg too.

[cryforop]

if the "change" can fix every thing, i will be very happy to see it, if it is not, why doing a favour to "a certain group" of players?

[Caiahar]

before the nerf last year, people said pvp was unbalanced too. what's the difference? people just complain, there is no way out. so why changing any thing, so listening to those people? they are customers of stg, i am a customer of stg too.

Because last year almost no one actually asked for the dmg, bird, and mage nerf.
And please don't bring Unity into this....

[cryforop]

Because last year almost no one actually asked for the dmg, bird, and mage nerf.
And please don't bring Unity into this....

you are bringing unity in, i didn't name it out
gj shadowstar

btw, this thread is not discussing unity so... peace

[Caiahar]

you are bringing unity in, i didn't name it out
gj shadowstar

btw, this thread is not discussing unity so... peace

oh, you still not qualified to join unity!? o.O"

btw, it's easier for me if str set and bears are nerfed but i like to play in a fair way. i don't like these kinds of advantages

Yes

[SillyJuan]

I don't think sam still reading, anyway

Un-nerf everything and make it as it was when bsm were release.

now 1) compress - hit%, crit, dodge, health regean, mana regean by 1.5 fold atleast globaly for pvp only.

example lets assume b4 compress one birds dodge was 50, one bears was 80 and one mages dodge was 20 now after compress dodge by 1.5 fold from everything birds dodge would be 33, bears 53 and mages 13 similary hit%, crit, mana regean and health regean. means whoever however getting 1.5 cmpressed dodge, crit, hit etc overall.

2) Scale armor with dmg, simply means add more armor in every gear proportionetly and lvl wise means l75 sets get more armor than what l70 set gets.

90% problem solved

and it would be parmanent solution not temporary.

well I didn't well explain it but whoever know the core mechanism sould catch it.

Lol!

[Impact]

How to fix:
Remove the useless nerfs for lvls under 65 ONLY, nerf savages dmg and crit, make dex less op at endgame, boost int armour. And boost fox and rhino, there everyone besides "pro" beckon stomp bears are unhappy

[Fighter]

The class damage nerfs should be taken away. Ruined low lv PvP for Birds, Mages, & Foxes.

As far as endgame. What everyone said. Savage set is very OP.

this.

I think forgotten bow need to be buffed again because there is not much damage difference between 10 and 20. +20-40 damage boost could be better. Same about halloween stuffs. Then damage buff skills should be nerfed. Rhinos', bears's etc..

Pvp is not only endgame or +56 level. Please think the other levels. Some nerfs ruined low level birds. A bird has no way for own a rhino at same level. I would recommend it again.

This thread is nice but pvp is not only endgame. I say again, hundreds of players are playing at 10-71 pvp.

[Fighter]

How to fix:
Remove the useless nerfs for lvls under 65 ONLY, nerf savages dmg and crit, make dex less op at endgame, boost int armour. And boost fox and rhino, there everyone besides "pro" beckon stomp bears are unhappy

and nerf savage's dodge too. 3pc savage birds always dodge the hits and never miss his hits. everything is wrong low level.

[Kanital]

Savage needs a crit chance nerf or damage nerf, also the bear hs, and aoe spell 12m that removes 80hit compared to birds that removes 60hit + damage is pretty op, egg should give stats along to the class also, like you guys did for crown during the 56 cap, it should only be a little better armor or/and damage than the original wing, not boost them of a better version of savage sheild. The talon set should also not give more dodge as set bonus (IMO). You should also rethink fiery, maybe less damage and more armor.

[Kanital]

you could also rethink the crit damage along to class also? would be simple way to do it

[Lexlyde]

Not going to say it again - Savage STR set. Bears are incredibly OP and it's not fun.

-Savage nerf... it's supposed to focus on tanking not damage and OP crits
-Reducing dodge... players rely way too much on it nowadays - it should be purely for birds (but even then I believe it should be lowered a bit).
-Reducing overall damage from players... I blame it partially on the lack of health/armor and the 9 skill points...

This would affect twinks way too much, ok endgame sucks, but some twink lvl are balanced so pls think about twinks too.

[Gracious]

The class damage nerfs should be taken away. Ruined low lv PvP for Birds, Mages, & Foxes.

As far as endgame. What everyone said. Savage set is very OP.

this.

I think forgotten bow need to be buffed again because there is not much damage difference between 10 and 20. +20-40 damage boost could be better. Same about halloween stuffs. Then damage buff skills should be nerfed. Rhinos', bears's etc..

Pvp is not only endgame or +56 level. Please think the other levels. Some nerfs ruined low level birds. A bird has no way for own a rhino at same level. I would recommend it again.

This thread is nice but pvp is not only endgame. I say again, hundreds of players are playing at 10-71 pvp.

what does buffing up a particular and still OP weapon have to do with class balance? Elaborate please. (I only read as far as "make op f bows more op")

[Burstnuke]

this.

I think forgotten bow need to be buffed again because there is not much damage difference between 10 and 20. +20-40 damage boost could be better. Same about halloween stuffs. Then damage buff skills should be nerfed. Rhinos', bears's etc..

Pvp is not only endgame or +56 level. Please think the other levels. Some nerfs ruined low level birds. A bird has no way for own a rhino at same level. I would recommend it again.

This thread is nice but pvp is not only endgame. I say again, hundreds of players are playing at 10-71 pvp.

No forgotten bow is what ruined low lvl pvp at first.

[MightyMicah]

I haven't said much because I'm no balance master but I know a couple things for certain.
1. Do NOT revert the nerf on forgotten/Halloween weapons. That will make this game even more a disaster than it already is when it comes to balance and economy. If anything, buff the current farmable weapons to the level fbows/Halloween were once at. However, I would say don't even do that.
2. Do NOT revert the class nerfs. Many are complaining but I remember pre forg and pre class nerf and it was less balanced across the board than it is now.

We want forward progress! Don't take us backwards.

[Zeus]

Here are my thoughts:

Savage:
I wouldn't nerf the armor or dodge of this set, as it is a bear's bread and butter. Players aren't thinking what the effect will be if they nerf the very vital stats that a bear has to rely on. So, if not nerf the armor or dodge, what to nerf? Well, bears are supposed to be survivable, along with anything that wears a savage set so nerfing the armor and dodge as stated before simply is not viable. However, damage is quite high with the savage set, so I would suggest to nerf that as a combination of high armor + dodge + damage is a give all with not many countermeasures to keep the balance.

Skills:
The buff skills were nerfed, which is fine. However, I do not think that drawing the skills back to L7 is a good idea either. Players are just thinking what worked before things went haywire in terms of balance. So, what I would suggest nerfing is the debuffs. Debuffs, along with buffs, should not make or break a fight. Rather, they should just improve your chances of winning. As of right now, debuffs are overpowered. Attack skills have even grown debuffs, so what to do? I would cut all the debuffs by 30-50%, this way a successful hell scream, crushing blow, or blind shot does not determine the fate of the match. However, I do think the 12mm range of Hell Scream should remain. Why? With everything having such high damage, bears do require a way to catch up...especially if we are nerfing debuffs.

Damage:
If you are nerfing debuffs, damage might have to be slightly scaled back. I am not saying a full scale back, but I am saying just enough to allow debuffs to continue to be viable in a skill set but not powerful enough to determine the outcome of a fight.

[Sheugokin]

Here are my thoughts:

Savage:
I wouldn't nerf the armor or dodge of this set, as it is a bear's bread and butter. Players aren't thinking what the effect will be if they nerf the very vital stats that a bear has to rely on. So, if not nerf the armor or dodge, what to nerf? Well, bears are supposed to be survivable, along with anything that wears a savage set so nerfing the armor and dodge as stated before simply is not viable. However, damage is quite high with the savage set, so I would suggest to nerf that as a combination of high armor + dodge + damage is a give all with not many countermeasures to keep the balance.

Skills:
The buff skills were nerfed, which is fine. However, I do not think that drawing the skills back to L7 is a good idea either. Players are just thinking what worked before things went haywire in terms of balance. So, what I would suggest nerfing is the debuffs. Debuffs, along with buffs, should not make or break a fight. Rather, they should just improve your chances of winning. As of right now, debuffs are overpowered. Attack skills have even grown debuffs, so what to do? I would cut all the debuffs by 30-50%, this way a successful hell scream or crushing blow does not determine the fate of the match. However, I do think the 12mm range of Hell Scream should remain. Why? With everything having such high damage, bears do require a way to catch up...especially if we are nerfing debuffs.

Damage:
If you are nerfing debuffs, damage might have to be slightly scaled back. I am not saying a full scale back, but I am saying just enough to allow debuffs to continue to be viable in a skill set but not powerful enough to determine the outcome of a fight.

You comin' back if nerf comes?