Spec Advice

[Crowsfoot]

My planned spec is as listed below:

Skills:
5/5 fire
4/5 shield, no push back
4/5 clock, no explode
3/5 ice, DoT and extended time only
3/5 lightning, damage and 250% on crit only
2/5 heal, mana (not over time) only

Passive:
5/5 Int
5/5 Str
5/5 Crit
4/5 Damage

I have heal mainly for km3 (its 2 points and I don't "need" those passive points). Mainly, I am concerned whether I need reduced hit chance in fire and if my passive is correct. I know passive damage doesn't work, but my mage won't be running elite until after the client update which will fix that.

For my purposes, assume the client update has already happened (it hasn't).

I appreciate any feedback that may improve my performance in elite (nordr+).

[Wutzgood]

IMO crow I would drop heal and add ice patch and chain lightning upgrades.

Ice patch is amazing in elites when it happens and with proper positioning you can freeze a whole mob with it. I rarely see people using it but I have found it extremely useful since you don't have to kill the enemy with frost only kill them while try are frozen for it to work.

Chain lightning can drop a whole mob and for pve it works well.

You have the damage passive. With the update will it stack or still be the same as it is now?

[Crowsfoot]

IMO crow I would drop heal and add ice patch and chain lightning upgrades.

Ice patch is amazing in elites when it happens and with proper positioning you can freeze a whole mob with it. I rarely see people using it but I have found it extremely useful since you don't have to kill the enemy with frost only kill them while try are frozen for it to work.

Chain lightning can drop a whole mob and for pve it works well.

You have the damage passive. With the update will it stack or still be the same as it is now?

This makes you one of the mages who tanks get aggravated at due to how you use ice.

Freeze the archers so we aren't crit 2k every 2 seconds and then use fireball on the spear users.

Ideally, ice is used to perma freeze 1-2 archers (most pulls have 2-4) and the tank can ignore them. This is especially vital in Tindirin where ice, stun, and banish immune komodos who debuff armor and deal high damage are prevelant. I die A LOT less when the archers are frozen instead of the spear users. Obviously, still freeze the healer first if that pull has one.

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Why lightning over fire? Mages are the best mob control in game, I won't be gearing this mage nearly as well as my warrior. Is lightning a better stun than fire?

[Wutzgood]

I freeze the main ranged attackers (archers, shadowmancers, etc) first but if a patch shows up I try to get the whole mob to run over it. Its really a very useful upgrade to have.

Personally I don't use shield and just avoid the red zones that will kill me. I've been using 4 attack skill build (fire, ice, lightning, clock)since season 4 tho so I'm just used to it. I pair ice/lightning and fire/clock together when I shoot enemies depending on if it's a single target or group. Tried shield for a while but never needed it and felt better with an extra attack.

If you need more survivability I would suggest dragon scale armor of will/fatality. It's the toughest armor for a Mage now although low damage. With that set and a magma/architect/nordr staff of potency you can survive a lot of shots not normally possible even in elites. I think I have around 350 damage and 4600 health using a legendary weapon so it's not that expensive if you are not looking to spend a lot.

[Crowsfoot]

I freeze the main ranged attackers (archers, shadowmancers, etc) first but if a patch shows up I try to get the whole mob to run over it. Its really a very useful upgrade to have.

Personally I don't use shield and just avoid the red zones that will kill me. I've been using 4 attack skill build (fire, ice, lightning, clock)since season 4 tho so I'm just used to it. I pair ice/lightning and fire/clock together when I shoot enemies depending on if it's a single target or group. Tried shield for a while but never needed it and felt better with an extra attack.

If you need more survivability I would suggest dragon scale armor of will/fatality. It's the toughest armor for a Mage now although low damage. With that set and a magma/architect/nordr staff of potency you can survive a lot of shots not normally possible even in elites. I think I have around 350 damage and 4600 health using a legendary weapon so it's not that expensive if you are not looking to spend a lot.

Makes much more sense now. How would you suggest I practice running no shield? It sounds a bit suicidal from a tank's point of view.

[falmear]

No 4/5 on damage. Move it to 4/5 dex. Many pets will invalidate the passive damage as you only get the highest passive damage. I would call what you have is a hybrid PvE/PvP build. If you run hard elites then use 5/5 Fireball, if you don't run hard elites often, then move scorch upgrade to chain lightning upgrade.

[Crowsfoot]

No 4/5 on damage. Move it to 4/5 dex. Many pets will invalidate the passive damage as you only get the highest passive damage. I would call what you have is a hybrid PvE/PvP build. If you run hard elites then use 5/5 Fireball, if you don't run hard elites often, then move scorch upgrade to chain lightning upgrade.

Well, at least I know you didn't read the whole post.

My planned spec is as listed below:

Skills:
5/5 fire
4/5 shield, no push back
4/5 clock, no explode
3/5 ice, DoT and extended time only
3/5 lightning, damage and 250% on crit only
2/5 heal, mana (not over time) only

Passive:
5/5 Int
5/5 Str
5/5 Crit
4/5 Damage

I have heal mainly for km3 (its 2 points and I don't "need" those passive points). Mainly, I am concerned whether I need reduced hit chance in fire and if my passive is correct. I know passive damage doesn't work, but my mage won't be running elite until after the client update which will fix that.

For my purposes, assume the client update has already happened (it hasn't).

I appreciate any feedback that may improve my performance in elite (nordr+).

Read portion in bold.

[Wutzgood]

Makes much more sense now. How would you suggest I practice running no shield? It sounds a bit suicidal from a tank's point of view.

Basically on my device I have to choose 2/3 of these actions to do at the same time: move, potion, attack. Doing 3 doesn't seem to work so if I see:

Normal enemies- I move and attack

A red zone that will kill me- I move and potion

A mob/red zone that can't Ohko me-I potion and attack but can't move.

Been using this strategy for 3 seasons now and it's very effective for killing things. You have to learn which red zones you can survive by trial and error tho.

Recently o dropped the shield and switched to wind with speed boost and knockdown upgrades. I switch clock for wind on bosses so I can avoid red zones even better.

[Crowsfoot]

Basically on my device I have to choose 2/3 of these actions to do at the same time: move, potion, attack. Doing 3 doesn't seem to work so if I see:

Normal enemies- I move and attack

A red zone that will kill me- I move and potion

A mob/red zone that can't Ohko me-I potion and attack but can't move.

Been using this strategy for 3 seasons now and it's very effective for killing things. You have to learn which red zones you can survive by trial and error tho.

Recently o dropped the shield and switched to wind with speed boost and knockdown upgrades. I switch clock for wind on bosses so I can avoid red zones even better.

A little too technical for me since I am keeping my warrior as my main (besides the multitasking part, I'm fairly sure everyone does that). I will definently try this is Int free respec weekend though.

[Madnex]

I assume heal in KM3 exists to save potions? I'd move those two points to max out fireball and damage passive, the rest of your build is pretty fine. You will need shield and you won't need ice patch; a build like wutz suggests that sacrifices 20% of your damage to add lighting in your immediate arsenal doesn't make sense. KM3 is like the opposite of elites so if you insist on running both, potion expenses won't be significantly assisted by heal anyway.

[utpal]

fireball then freeze those that fireball didn't touched and then use lighting.

[falmear]

Well, at least I know you didn't read the whole post.

Read portion in bold.

I did but 5/5 dex is better then damage passive because of the extra 125 health for elite. And using electrical discharge is going to be way better then scorch upgrade if you run km3. Also I am not taking passive damage unless they make it stackable on top of passive pet & elixir damage. But if you don't plan on doing any PvP, I would lose lifegiver.

[Crowsfoot]

I did but 5/5 dex is better then damage passive because of the extra 125 health for elite. And using electrical discharge is going to be way better then scorch upgrade if you run km3. Also I am not taking passive damage unless they make it stackable on top of passive pet & elixir damage. But if you don't plan on doing any PvP, I would lose lifegiver.

1) its 75 HP
2) passive damage will be stackable
3) km3 is half of what my mage will do, I'm fairly adamant on keeping those 2 points in life giver to save potions. I don't see a drastic chance in performance from 2 passive points. 4+ makes a difference from what I noticed during free respec testing.

[Crowsfoot]

I assume heal in KM3 exists to save potions? I'd move those two points to max out fireball and damage passive, the rest of your build is pretty fine. You will need shield and you won't need ice patch; a build like wutz suggests that sacrifices 20% of your damage to add lighting in your immediate arsenal doesn't make sense. KM3 is like the opposite of elites so if you insist on running both, potion expenses won't be significantly assisted by heal anyway.

1) Fireball is maxed.
2) okay, no ice patch. This is what I figured.
3) my mage will be doing elite. I added lightning because I was told it is much better than clocks in a boss fight.

PS: you seem to follow almost every subforum. Are there any mage build discussion like this you can jirect me to? A lot of people are shaming the 2 points in lifegiver, but I haven't found any need to put those points in passive yes. Do you have any (perhaps) math that may prove the advantages of 5/5 vs 4/5 damage? Or, why Dex may be a better choice?

[Joncheese]

My planned spec is as listed below:

Skills:
5/5 fire
4/5 shield, no push back
4/5 clock, no explode
3/5 ice, DoT and extended time only
3/5 lightning, damage and 250% on crit only
2/5 heal, mana (not over time) only

Passive:
5/5 Int
5/5 Str
5/5 Crit
4/5 Damage

I have heal mainly for km3 (its 2 points and I don't "need" those passive points). Mainly, I am concerned whether I need reduced hit chance in fire and if my passive is correct. I know passive damage doesn't work, but my mage won't be running elite until after the client update which will fix that.

For my purposes, assume the client update has already happened (it hasn't).

I appreciate any feedback that may improve my performance in elite (nordr+).

As wutz said I would take Sheild out, but that's only what I'm used to. Also depending on who you run with it could be costly.... If you are running with a less experienced team and you (Mage) are doing a lot of work then the aggro against you will show. This makes staying alive a lot more difficult and so Sheild may be of use.

Honestly I've never tried ice patch, I'm actually going to spec it now though and give it a try. I think that coupled with whimms could be awesome. Thanks for this.

Other than that your spec is pretty solid mate, tbh it's all a matter of preference when you get to this level, mainly due to you being able to max out your char so much.

One question I would like to know is; does curse still work well against bosses? I am often hybrid and use curse for pvp so I have it spec all the time. I know In arena mages spec curse..... Would this be beneficial against elite bosses?

Nice thread bro, good to see you using your Mage at last. Maybe I can tank for YOU now!

[Crowsfoot]

As wutz said I would take Sheild out, but that's only what I'm used to. Also depending on who you run with it could be costly.... If you are running with a less experienced team and you (Mage) are doing a lot of work then the aggro against you will show. This makes staying alive a lot more difficult and so Sheild may be of use.

Honestly I've never tried ice patch, I'm actually going to spec it now though and give it a try. I think that coupled with whimms could be awesome. Thanks for this.

Other than that your spec is pretty solid mate, tbh it's all a matter of preference when you get to this level, mainly due to you being able to max out your char so much.

One question I would like to know is; does curse still work well against bosses? I am often hybrid and use curse for pvp so I have it spec all the time. I know In arena mages spec curse..... Would this be beneficial against elite bosses?

Nice thread bro, good to see you using your Mage at last. Maybe I can tank for YOU now!

My first main was a mage, lol. I switched to warriot in season 2 after the heavy mage nerfs.

PS: looking forward to you tanking for me instead too

[Wutzgood]

Yeah having shield all depends on your play style. Some mages can't go without it. I personally never found any use for it except for the 2 sec invincibility upgrade and I prefer wind with speed boost and knockdown upgrades for bosses now. With that its very easy for me to avoid red zones.

Jon my twink Mage uses curse but still farms pve occasionally. I've noticed a combo of curse, shield and scorns AA makes hard hitting enemies kill themselves quick in pve. Scorns armor decrease actually helps with curse and shield will keep the damage away from you. Haven't tried it above level 21 tho and i don't think it would be more effective than 4 attack skills.

If damage passive stacks with pets damage I may put it back but till I see that it stacks I won't be adding it.

[Madnex]

1) Fireball is maxed.
2) okay, no ice patch. This is what I figured.
3) my mage will be doing elite. I added lightning because I was told it is much better than clocks in a boss fight.

PS: you seem to follow almost every subforum. Are there any mage build discussion like this you can jirect me to? A lot of people are shaming the 2 points in lifegiver, but I haven't found any need to put those points in passive yes. Do you have any (perhaps) math that may prove the advantages of 5/5 vs 4/5 damage? Or, why Dex may be a better choice?

(1)If fireball is maxed then you're right, skill points are way more game-influential in active skills; can't stress that enough. Having extra skills to adapt to more occassions is always more efficient that a few more damage or HP points.

(2)I'm going to give ice patch another try because theoretically, with the right pulls (concentrating many enemies on a tight spot by using map morphology and timed clocks) it sounds like it's worth a shot. Definitely less useful in Tindirin elites because of the mob immunities but what the hell, we'll see how it goes.

(3)Lighting is cool (mostly for bosses) but you can definitely do without it. IMO, the damage lighting does to mobs is against the sorcerer's AoE element and can be easily replaced with correctly dropped Timed Shifts.

A sorcerer without shield (in elites) is bound to waste the Timed Shift's second upgrade for extra initial damage because of the high risk to get taken out when approaching to drop the clock. In a split second, even two mobs' attention can result to more than 4k incoming damage, forcing the player to use the mentioned skill half assedly from distance which results in plainly rooting and setting off a DoT.


PS: No referrences that are worth linking to but generally, versatility over passives is a good idea of a successful build.

[Crowsfoot]

(1)If fireball is maxed then you're right, skill points are way more game-influential in active skills; can't stress that enough. Having extra skills to adapt to more occassions is always more efficient that a few more damage or HP points.

(2)I'm going to give ice patch another try because theoretically, with the right pulls (concentrating many enemies on a tight spot by using map morphology and timed clocks) it sounds like it's worth a shot. Definitely less useful in Tindirin elites because of the mob immunities but what the hell, we'll see how it goes.

(3)Lighting is cool (mostly for bosses) but you can definitely do without it. IMO, the damage lighting does to mobs is against the sorcerer's AoE element and can be easily replaced with correctly dropped Timed Shifts.

A sorcerer without shield (in elites) is bound to waste the Timed Shift's second upgrade for extra initial damage because of the high risk to get taken out when approaching to drop the clock. In a split second, even two mobs' attention can result to more than 4k incoming damage, forcing the player to use the mentioned skill half assedly from distance which results in plainly rooting and setting off a DoT.


PS: No referrences that are worth linking to but generally, versatility over passives is a good idea of a successful build.

2) as a tank, I know I prefer mages to freeze archers and move on. Additionally, several players commented in my hypothetical build in game. Of them, none suggested I use ice patch so I will wait to try it during free respec.

3) darn, I already have lightning unlocked. I will do some tests and drop it if I find clocks working well enough in boss fights.

Yes, I will probably use shield for this reason. Assuming I don't let my mage die out, I may become skilled enough to play without shield. However, since I have a nagging tendency to forget that I'm not on my tank I think shield is safest for everyone.

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Shame there is no good mage build threads with math dissecting the passives.

However, I went ahead and did some for the heck of it.

Assuming each class is at an average stat range we can apply values of a whole of how potent that class' damage output on mobs is. I started with warriors as the base value of 1 since they are, by far, the lowest damage output. Rogues are above warriors but don't have many area based attacks so I only gave them the value of 3 (ie 3 warriors = 1 rogue). Mages were tricky, they have much less damage than rogues but many area based attacks. I gave them a value of 4 (ie 4 warriors = 1 mage).
*Note: all values are of accordance to mob slaying, the boss fight has been excluded from this part.

Assuming a case scenario for mage damage importance, a party would consist of 1 warrior, 2 rogues, and 1 mage. By deciding the the mage value of 4 by the sum of all factors (1+2(3)+4=11) we get the value 0._36 which is, under SigFigs, 40%.

Next we find the time of an average elite run (mobs portion only, I am not accounting for the boss). I focused only on Tindirin and found average run times of the mobs being between 9 and 15 min. The average of these is 12min (720 seconds).

40% of all damage was from the mage, thus the time impact of the mage was 288 seconds (720 x 0.4). Assuming perfect numbers, each point in passive damage will reduce the value of 288 by an equivalent amount of time. That time is roughly 3 seconds (288 x 0.01 = 2.88 ~ 3). This, 5/5 damage should result in a 15 second faster run in this party. The time of the run is reduced further by the party having more warriors and lessened by the party having more mages.

When error is accounted for the impact of passive damage is negligible. However, the 75 HP from 5/5 Dex is just as unattractive to me. Of course, the better geared a mage is the greater his impact will be. Especially if he/she is better geared than the other party members.

*Note: figures assume perfect numbers, were rounded generously, and a working (stackable) passive damage is assumed.

[Madnex]

Good work.

Just a bit something, pairings and class combinations can't exactly be calculated this way; the damage output of two mages working together is improved beyond double by alternating time shift for example. Generally replacing any class with a mage speeds up the run (at least for the mobs part). What I'm trying to say is that the effect of any rogue's/mage's damage and essentially any damage boosts like passive damage are directly connected with the number of mages in the run.

Two mages, one rogue and a warrior is the most efficient scheme for most of the elites. The warrior can be replaced in an experienced group with another mage or rogue for extra speed. Good mages are hard to find nowadays though. :/