Endgame PvP Restoration

[DivineMoustache]

Why do you think it is so important to have such powered skills? Stat points are enough to improve skill strength and over time make a significant difference. Increased level means better sets which also lead to stronger skills. There is really no point for skills to go over 6.

The only reasons the values of the sets would increase is a greater demand for the sets. A greater demand is balanced with a greater amount of farmers. A with more balanced sets mean more people will want to pvp AND pve end game. Fiery set would be the only set that would raise significantly because it's currently the most underpowered- it is only increasing in price to become balanced. This change would in no way make it harder for "poor" players to farm. The sets are not significantly stronger. They are balanced. Balanced does not mean stronger. And As I said, the current sets are underpowered in pve. It is nearly impossible to farm elite red dragon with out a team of 3x combos with sets. This rebalance would make PvE balanced as well therefore making it slightly more fair for a team without elixirs. Changing the stats of all the greens and purples and the bosses and mobs is very extremist. No where does it recommend the change and it is ultimately unnecessary. Also, I don't know what you mean by those "left behind". There is no person left behind. This cap has been out for a brutal 19-20 months and I assume will be the last cap. Anyone left behind will have infinite time to catch up. Farming dragon has nothing to do with anything. Many new players do it just fine with a team. A rebalance of end game's effect on farming dragon is exaggerated and untrue. I can farm it right now with a green set and a team. It's a 65 dungeon anyways. This rebalance is simply about the stats of the sets. They've been changed before, and these drastic effects you claim have never occurred.

Sewers pve was not unbalanced? And sewer sets were never overpowered in sewer pve. (You can still test it)

Crit does not make pvp focused on luck. You're not looking at the set as a whole. If you see every aspect of each statistic it's clear where it balances out. It is undeniable that sewers was the most balanced and most enjoyable cap. Why would we change what we know works? The new balance is based off what sewer sets were and increased accordingly to level 75. View crit more as damage than luck. 50% crit means half of your shots will have more damage. This is balanced by an increased hp and regain to counter the greater damage delt by crit.


ign ALL HAIL

50% crit means you have a theoretical 50% chance of crit. Most of us have experienced the thrill of 5 straight crits ending a fight or 5 straight dodges rather than the usually dodge 2 hit 2.
Eliminating these crit factors lowers the chance of lucky fight. I don't see how you can deny that...perhaps i'm not explaining it very well.

Also I'm not saying that sewer was NOT unbalanced though I may have given out that assumption. What I meant is that it's a poor choice to limit ourselves to sewer age crit and dodge factors. see above.

Your point on balanced and not stronger was interesting, made me realize that yes, they are not stronger, but only have more HP and less dodge and crit chance. However, this will not prevent a rebalance of all items, because the previously mentioned purps/greens will have have a normal current day level of dodge/crit as well, which will still require rebalance of nearly every item to prevent "drainer's rage" I.E. oranges dodging more than pinks/crit more than pinks.

It is also pretty damn hard to farm Feast with a team of green fellers and lower level people. You're pro, I can understand you finding a good *** team or carrying the team on your back. Not everyone comes into the game with the common knowledge of how to wreck aunt emma or edward.

I also think it's important to keep skill progression the same because my idea is to NERF crit %, and INCREASE damage to a balanced level with less dodge and more HP.

[ign Boss]

Awesome! Too bad nuthing gunna happen
Also, endgame shouldn't be the only lvl to balance. At low lvl pvp -45, bears debuffs are INSANELY op why their rage buff is also insanely op and mages can be op even without their ms. At 45+ Dex bears beckon stomp sms one shot kills EVERY non str toon. So yep, bear def needs a dmg nerf since they have: high armour, hp, dodge AND dmg of ALL the classes which is extremely op... Think not just for endgame pvp but also for every lvl too.

This thread is solely about rebalancing endgame PvP. If you have a new idea you can start your own thread! Thanks.


ign ALL HAIL

[MightyMicah]

Yay! Someone smart finally examined everything and crunched the numbers! Let's hope it doesn't all go to waste. By the way, thanks for the trip down memory lane, Dollo! For the record, I still remember when you were a drainer noob But don't worry, I was wearing mystery set like a baws at the time hahaha

[XghostzX]

Yay! Someone smart finally examined everything and crunched the numbers! Let's hope it doesn't all go to waste. By the way, thanks for the trip down memory lane, Dollo! For the record, I still remember when you were a drainer noob But don't worry, I was wearing mystery set like a baws at the time hahaha

Hey Micah <3

[ign Boss]

50% crit means you have a theoretical 50% chance of crit. Most of us have experienced the thrill of 5 straight crits ending a fight or 5 straight dodges rather than the usually dodge 2 hit 2.
Eliminating these crit factors lowers the chance of lucky fight. I don't see how you can deny that...perhaps i'm not explaining it very well.

Also I'm not saying that sewer was NOT unbalanced though I may have given out that assumption. What I meant is that it's a poor choice to limit ourselves to sewer age crit and dodge factors. see above.

Your point on balanced and not stronger was interesting, made me realize that yes, they are not stronger, but only have more HP and less dodge and crit chance. However, this will not prevent a rebalance of all items, because the previously mentioned purps/greens will have have a normal current day level of dodge/crit as well, which will still require rebalance of nearly every item to prevent "drainer's rage" I.E. oranges dodging more than pinks/crit more than pinks.

It is also pretty damn hard to farm Feast with a team of green fellers and lower level people. You're pro, I can understand you finding a good *** team or carrying the team on your back. Not everyone comes into the game with the common knowledge of how to wreck aunt emma or edward.

I also think it's important to keep skill progression the same because my idea is to NERF crit %, and INCREASE damage to a balanced level with less dodge and more HP.

The point is that the sewer cap worked. It's viewed as balanced and fun. A little luck is good. We shouldn't try to change something that works. If everyone clearly loves the sewer age, then let's recreate it. The rebalance is not based on luck at all. Obviously skill will prevail. Even now I can consistently kill each class even though it's unbalanced.

Also I don't see the problem with drainer. The current greens are not nearly overpowered and won't be overpowered with the rebalance.

Increasing skills to 9. More dodge. More crit. More damage. Not a good idea. There is still progression. But in a lesser extreme.

If you're talking about overall balance and community happiness, this is the way to go. As simple as that.


ign ALL HAIL

[DivineMoustache]

The point is that the sewer cap worked. It's viewed as balanced and fun. A little luck is good. We shouldn't try to change something that works. If everyone clearly loves the sewer age, then let's recreate it. The rebalance is not based on luck at all. Obviously skill will prevail. Even now I can consistently kill each class even though it's unbalanced.

Also I don't see the problem with drainer. The current greens are not nearly overpowered and won't be overpowered with the rebalance.

Increasing skills to 9. More dodge. More crit. More damage. Not a good idea. There is still progression. But in a lesser extreme.

If you're talking about overall balance and community happiness, this is the way to go. As simple as that.


ign ALL HAIL

There is no problem with drainer, however there was a perceived one caused by people using pinks getting rekt by people using oranges.
However, not sure why a little luck can be good in this case. The goal of this thread was to get rid of OP dodge & make a scene again where consistency and skill execution matters over luck. Less crit = more consistent results = more skill required to play the game. Is that not the point?

[Waug]

Great hard work, bold decisions should be taken to recover from current endgame situation and this is the one to implement rather based on some 'this sould b nerfed or that' and that leaded to take wrong nerfs in past.

its bold and less work at the same time.

- pve was never so hard with group specially daily blessing but still a group of skilled players/devs have to try dungeon and bosses at skill points 6, to chk its viability.

- Mayb just not eliminating 6-9 skill points, its another solution to greatly nerf 6-9 skill points like mayb >50% for all classes and all skills that means lets say a skill at lvl 7 gives +20 dmg now after nerf it would give anything <= (less than or equal to)+10

-As far as so called 'range glitch ' is concern there are 2differnt things one while at combat if player try to kite he get hitted from a larger distance, - this one mayb falls under glitch but there's one one other range tactic to get extra 2m range which IS NOT GLITCH ATALL and part of game mechanism and definitely players only who know and practice can use this , so it stay.

[ign Boss]

There is no problem with drainer, however there was a perceived one caused by people using pinks getting rekt by people using oranges.
However, not sure why a little luck can be good in this case. The goal of this thread was to get rid of OP dodge & make a scene again where consistency and skill execution matters over luck. Less crit = more consistent results = more skill required to play the game. Is that not the point?

There will be no drainer effect. Also why would it be bad if drainer could kill a set.

Absolutely no luck. Lol that would mean I would kill a "noob" 100% of the time. Don't get confused with crit and luck. Crit is not luck. If it was balanced during sewers what makes you think it all of a sudden won't be balanced anymore? It will be balanced. However if you feel this strongly that this method is not what you want you can make a thread and try to balance the stats. You won't know how much damage would be balanced and if it's enough to pve.

This thread is the way to go. (Please don't counter argument anymore)


ign ALL HAIL

[ign Boss]

Great hard work, bold decisions should be taken to recover from current endgame situation and this is the one to implement rather based on some 'this sould b nerfed or that' and that leaded to take wrong nerfs in past.

its bold and less work at the same time.

- pve was never so hard with group specially daily blessing but still a group of skilled players/devs have to try dungeon and bosses at skill points 6, to chk its viability.

- Mayb just not eliminating 6-9 skill points, its another solution to greatly nerf 6-9 skill points like mayb >50% for all classes and all skills that means lets say a skill at lvl 7 gives +20 dmg now after nerf it would give anything <= (less than or equal to)+10

-As far as so called 'range glitch ' is concern there are 2differnt things one while at combat if player try to kite he get hitted from a larger distance, - this one mayb falls under glitch but there's one one other range tactic to get extra 2m range which IS NOT GLITCH ATALL and part of game mechanism and definitely players only who know and practice can use this , so it stay.

Difficult to understand and ambiguous. Can you make a clear summary?


ign ALL HAIL

[DivineMoustache]

There will be no drainer effect. Also why would it be bad if drainer could kill a set.

Absolutely no luck. Lol that would mean I would kill a "noob" 100% of the time. Don't get confused with crit and luck. Crit is not luck. If it was balanced during sewers what makes you think it all of a sudden won't be balanced anymore? It will be balanced. However if you feel this strongly that this method is not what you want you can make a thread and try to balance the stats. You won't know how much damage would be balanced and if it's enough to pve.

This thread is the way to go. (Please don't counter argument anymore)


ign ALL HAIL

You are really not reading into my paragraphs at all. I never said it was bad, other PERCEIVED it as bad. I personally don't. I like variety of sets, but again, to create a variety of different sets requires green/orange/blue rebalance...lol...

I can't stop arguing with you because of your belief that this thread is perfect. It's good, but allow me to explain my opinion.

And there WILL be luck, in the form of around 15-20% crit, as i stated in one of my previous posts. Also discouraging lucky fights will allow the "noob" to train harder & get to a pros skill level. PvP is something that can be learned, not farmed as gear can.

ALSO: Crit IS luck. Lol. I'm sure you have complained about critical streaks before, and you likely will in the future. Every one has. Eliminating these huge "yellow yellow yellow yellow" number streaks creates a more balanced environment rather than one where luck can win you a fight.

EDIT: Also, my second sentence is by no means a bash towards this thread. Rather voicing my opinions on something I disagree with.

[MightyMicah]

Hey Micah <3

What up, Bae? <3

[ign Boss]

You are really not reading into my paragraphs at all. I never said it was bad, other PERCEIVED it as bad. I personally don't. I like variety of sets, but again, to create a variety of different sets requires green/orange/blue rebalance...lol...

I can't stop arguing with you because of your belief that this thread is perfect. It's good, but allow me to explain my opinion.

And there WILL be luck, in the form of around 15-20% crit, as i stated in one of my previous posts. Also discouraging lucky fights will allow the "noob" to train harder & get to a pros skill level. PvP is something that can be learned, not farmed as gear can.

ALSO: Crit IS luck. Lol. I'm sure you have complained about critical streaks before, and you likely will in the future. Every one has. Eliminating these huge "yellow yellow yellow yellow" number streaks creates a more balanced environment rather than one where luck can win you a fight.

EDIT: Also, my second sentence is by no means a bash towards this thread. Rather voicing my opinions on something I disagree with.

Redoing stats for common drops would be a neat idea but its not necessary. Newer players using common drops isn't screwing them over either. If they can farm with common drops now, they'll be able to farm with them after the balance too. My proposal isn't to increase mob difficulty but to make debuffs less frequent. This would make newer players even more advantaged in pve considering the current Blacksmoke campaign would be getting a slight nerf in this sense. As for crit, what I'm proposing will produce a consistent winner in pvp for I'd say >95% of fights and will require little code work. If you win 9/10 rounds, I'd say that's consistent and won't produce a "drainer" effect like you're saying it would. What you're proposing is to make it completely consistent which would require an overhaul and restructuring of the current skills. Archers would no doubt have the short end of the stick considering their buffs provide dodge and crit, with hit (not even really needed) and barely any armor. Archers would need a damage but if this were to happen because they won't be able to crit to produce the same amount of damage needed to pierce through a tank. Archers need this crit the most because they will produce enough dmg output to kill a tank as a tank would need to kill an archer with much less armor. To implement something like this would basically destroy the classes that we've come to know over the past few years and would require not only skills to be changed (which takes a good amount of code work) but changed every single stat on every single item in the game.

Nonsensical.


ign ALL HAIL

[Waug]

Difficult to understand and ambiguous. Can you make a clear summary?


ign ALL HAIL

Bro, if u wan to, u have to read it carefully I don't have any intention to type large description specially since devs don't read neither they listen good points. I only clarify the first phase if it created any confusion -

This thread is good and should be implemented. Thnx

@divine I wanna say u that I don't read ur post much cause whateva I read was just few baseles logic.

U just forgetting that dodge, crit nonseparable part of PL if u think to eliminate this so called "luck" u JUST HAVE TO IMAGINE A WHOLE NEW GAME NOT PL, mayb a pl part 2, purpose is not to eliminate luck totally but make it not to overcome players skill.

[DivineMoustache]

Redoing stats for common drops would be a neat idea but its not necessary. Newer players using common drops isn't screwing them over either. If they can farm with common drops now, they'll be able to farm with them after the balance too. My proposal isn't to increase mob difficulty but to make debuffs less frequent. This would make newer players even more advantaged in pve considering the current Blacksmoke campaign would be getting a slight nerf in this sense. As for crit, what I'm proposing will produce a consistent winner in pvp for I'd say >95% of fights and will require little code work. If you win 9/10 rounds, I'd say that's consistent and won't produce a "drainer" effect like he's saying it would. What he's proposing is to make it completely consistent which would require an overhaul and restructuring of the current skills. Archers would no doubt have the short end of the stick considering their buffs provide dodge and crit, with hit (not even really needed) and barely any armor. Archers would need a damage but if this were to happen because they won't be able to crit to produce the same amount of damage needed to pierce through a tank. Archers need this crit the most because they will produce enough dmg output to kill a tank as a tank would need to kill an archer with much less armor. To implement something like this would basically destroy the classes that we've come to know over the past few years and would require not only skills to be changed (which takes a good amount of code work) but changed every single stat on every single item in the game.

Nonsensical.


ign ALL HAIL

I get your point on the first two sentences. I dropped that argument long ago, because you made me rethink my mind about that part.

For the next few sentences in no particular order:

Then simply buff archer damage & and a shorter buff (much like pre "nerf" fox) but with same dodge %. I'm tired of having luck factors decide fights when they require no skill whatsoever.

I'm proposing an overhaul of the dodge and crit factors, of course, not a return to sewer era dodge and crit. However, I'm not saying we NEED to overhaul all items, that would just be a result of adding more set bonuses & removing many luck factors from play in the gear (nerving dodge, but maintaining it's current level on purps/greens). Dodge & crit should have never gotten this out of control anyway.

Simply buff archer damage more then, rather than critical hit, if they have a hard time killing bears. Creates balance, consistency, and allows them to kill other classes. Fleet fingered PvPer's could easily take advantage of buffed damage to achieve the same results as the sewer era prime bird.

EDIT: The current state of the game is hopeless, as I've realized from arguing with you. I'm actually not satisfied with either my answer nor your answers, you made me realize this when you said that overhaul would destroy the "classes that we've known so long." The reason being is that the roles of each class has been so blown out of proportion that it's nearly impossible to get a rebalance without people getting unused to role changes. I doubt the devs intended dodge to get above 40%, they seem to have included it only because they've added damage to other things without thinking about it at all, and they needed some sort of balance to achieve this canceling out of damage effect. Enter dodge. With a complete rebalance as you're proposing, I believe the devs can make it so dodge not only will become unnecessary, it will become a last resort rather than something to be relied on.


Also, about throwing off class roles : The same thing happened with GCD "destroying the bird class." People don't like change, sometimes it's not necessary. We're all playing fine now, we should be able to play fine without this overhaul as well. Overall good guide.

@Worstbird - wtf, did you not read the part where I proposed only 20% dodge with normal buff. Not sure how that's base less logic, there's still the luck element that you folks seem to enjoy, while keep it consistent for skill. About "A WHOLE NEW GAME", this thread is already about a overhaul of the common sets that you know today. There seem to be no complaints about what will happen when bear can no longer rely on dodge. Simply put, good thread, there were only two things that I disagreed with in the WHOLE thread. Good work, good night fellas.

[HarryBear]

Great post! 😊👍
I think the skills should be maxed out at 7 though, considering the PvE aspect of end game, and the amount of health that the sets could add(if your idea is put into the game), 6 just really isn't enough umph to take down mobs and/or bosses, even as a team.

[Ssneakykills]

Good job dollo and co let's hope this gets implemented

[Everyone'sFavMage]

Wow alex, wow.

[stopcrying]

Wow carrots

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

[Faliziaga]

Thanks a lot for this huge effort and this great read, I have spent 2 hours here reading and thinking.

Here is my constructive feedback. Main subject is the talon set:

Attachment 92496

Imo those stats are not correct, it seems as if the wing is not equipped. This leads in the following to an imbalance compared to the staff set:


Attachment 92497


Attachment 92498


Maybe you can check this.

Especially, I like your thoughts about mobs' debuffs in Pve, as this is an issue I have mentioned a long time ago, same goes for bird's mana in elite slayer. Balancing the sets should not let Pve unconsidered.

[Lexlyde]

Great thread. Thanks for putting it together! No promises on implementation, but it is being read.

Don't forget you made a thread about feedback for an endgame PvP rebalance, here you got the most constructive feedback about endgame PvP. No promise? Just tell us what else do you need?