Suggestion to keep game interesting after level 50

[derricks2]

1129


I think some sort of permanent character development feature needs to be added.

Once you hit 50 the game gets pretty boring. I grinded out a few pinks, sold em, figured out the best armor I needed, bought it and now.. bored with the best gear for my template. Whats the point of getting better gear.. do more damage, kill stuff faster, die less.. whats the point of killing stuff faster/easier when you have the best gear?? Theirs no higher goal for advancement. I just dont feel like theirs any meaning behind what I am doing in the game.

My idea is to add a system where once you hit level 50 that you get 5 stat points per 1000 kills over 10k kills. So once you hit 50, if you have 12000k kills you will get an additional 5 stat points once you hit 13000 kills, and an additional 5pts at 14k, 15k, 16k..etc from there on out.

Stats dont change yout character a TON , but they do help. so adding this makes it easier to dual class and add other stats for more hp or mr/s or hit% etc... without making a character with 100000 kills unbelievably overpowered.

Q. Why make it level 50 only?
A. So twinks at low levels cannot abuse this. This is so that once you hit level 50 you can still advance your character.. give you a reason to play a level 50 character.

Q. Should it be retroactive? Example: I hit level 50 and have 20k kills?
A. No. If you hit level 50 with 20k kills, you should not get 50 points to spend for having the extra 10K kills over the starting point. This keeps people from farming kills at a low level then leveling to 50 to get easy points. The system is designed to encourage people NOT to sit in "Crush the Keeper" games from level 1 and hit level 50 with <1000 kills. This will encourage people to play their characters at the appropriate levels up to level 50 and have the appropriate amount of kills so they can continue to advance their character by playing the game.



Their is more, but I ran out of time at work. What do you think of the concept?

[superglut2]

Dude best idea i have seen in a LONG time! +100

[Refriedchicken]

this has been discussed before.

see, the problem with this idea is:

Level 50s would be spamming low level areas, which would get incredibly boring. Others really couldn't tell you've gotten these advancement points, etc.

my idea:

Instead of kills, what if at level 50, every 15,000 experience, you gain a skill point, and allow all skills to raise 3 above the current cap of 5(will only go above 5 if youre using points obtained with the 15k exp method).

Although, because nobody can tell a specific players damage in a party, nobody would really know but you.

Just a thought, because stat bonuses would be almost pointless, aside from a few dual spec applications.

[Lesrider]

Eh, people would just spend all day by plothozz, killing mummies.

[derricks2]

Eh, people would just spend all day by plothozz, killing mummies.

first, a mob has con to you to give you a kill, so level 50s will not be farming low level zones.

@les
Well how about a new stat. Boss Kill Points. Mini boss count for say 5 boss kill points, end boss worth 10 boss kill points. Finishing a AO3 stage is 25 bonus boss kill points. Thus if I 4yf4g the last boss, you would get 10 + 25 for finishing the stage. every 1k boss kill points us 5 stats if your level 50.

This encourages finishing stages, which makes it easier to find a game that will advance you to the next stage. Also takes more skill to get the points because bosses are tougher. Taking the time to just finish stages with 1 or 2 bosses will take longer.

A..gaincan be tweaked, like making higher levels in ao3 give more points. Either way it promotes finishing stages and taking the time to kill bosses...

[Conradin]

dude its a ok idea...., i personally like to do twink pvp (lvl 10-35 chars are way fun to play), get gear for them and rack yp kills by owning noobs..

[Lesrider]

Eh it wouldn't be fair to those of us who already killed a few thousand bosses before this system was implemented. Bc I have no interest in killing any more ao3 bosses than I already have. Yet ppl just hitting 50 would just be starting to farm ao3, and have no problem killing a few thousand bosses now.

I barely made it through the two full cyber sets I got without blowing my brains out.

[derricks2]

dude its a ok idea...., i personally like to do twink pvp (lvl 10-35 chars are way fun to play), get gear for them and rack yp kills by owning noobs..

I have a twink and its ok. I love PvP but its less ful when even at level 20 any character type can insta kill you. Before it will be fun it has to be fair.

Eh it wouldn't be fair to those of us who already killed a few thousand bosses before this system was implemented. Bc I have no interest in killing any more ao3 bosses than I already have. Yet ppl just hitting 50 would just be starting to farm ao3, and have no problem killing a few thousand bosses now.

I barely made it through the two full cyber sets I got without blowing my brains out.

Ok let me try this and see what you think.

*This will start with the next expansion where everyone is on a fresh start with gear grinding and quests and the such.
*Use a combination of both NPC kills and Boss kills.
*Add the new Boss Kill Points stat in.
*Increase the Kill count minimum to 15k
*Increase the Boss Kill minimum to 15k
*If your max level, every XX,000th NPC kill you get thats over 15,000(in other words when you roll over the XX,000 mark) you will get 3 stats points.
*If you are max level, every XX,000th Boss Kill Point you get that is over 15,000 will give you 2 stat points.
*NPC kill points are awarded as they are now:Whoever gets the final hit on a MOB that cons atleast "blue" to you.
*Boss Kill Points are gained 2 ways:
-Each Boss killed awards each person in the game at that time 5 boss kill points.
-Whenever a lever(only in the newest expansion) is cleared, each person who is in the game when the final MOB is killed received a bonus Boss Kill Points in the amount of (Total Bosses in the game * 10).


What I believe this will do is a few things.

1. With this system, a level 1 who just simply goes into a higher level game will not pick up many kills and will have to do LOTS of kills before gaining stats for killing.

2. NPC kills get 3 stats because it will take a bit longer to achieve 1000 NPC kills than 1000 boss kill points.

3. This encourages people to FINISH the levels. Only farming for 1 boss ina level and quitting will get you NPC kills, and a very few Boss Kill Points, by taking a little more time you can just finish the level. By not finishing levels, you will level your stats more slowly than doing full levels.

4. Players will not only farm the easiest level because traditionally the higher the level gets the more bosses are in that level. For instance in AO3 level 1, their are 2 bosses. So with the 2 bosses you get 5 each so 10 BKP from killing the 2 bosses and an additional (2bosses * 10 = 20 BKP from completing the stage. Thats only 30. With crush the keeper you have 2 bosses for sure and 2 random spawns. So in the 2nd stage you can potentially gain 60 BKP(4 bosses X 5 = 20 .. and 4 bosses X 10 = 40... 20 + 40 = 60).


So in review, new characters have more incentive to play their appropriate levels, thus making for more people to play with at lower levels. Reduce the amount of WAY to low level characters in high level games. Give characters at max level and have the best gear a way to slowly better your character over time by playing the game. Allows Max level PVP to be a bit more fair as characters can increase HPs, armor, dodge etc via extra stats. Gives additional incentive for characters to finish a full level instead of creating a level just to kill 1 boss and quitting, this makes it easier for people to advance all the way through the expansion levels. Encourages people to form friends that are good players in order to allow faster games with less wipes.

I feel like this would do a lot. What do you think about that type of system les?

[Pharcyde]

I love the idea, I suggested something similar before. But the only problem is the level cap is going to get raised to 99 (eventually). Thats the end game level, by then we will have housing, pets, guilds and what else they put into the game. The game should be pretty full of end gamer stuff. Also getting to 99 will take awhile because i'm pretty sure its gonna be like 30-50k exp a level.

see, the problem with this idea is:

Level 50s would be spamming low level areas, which would get incredibly boring. Others really couldn't tell you've gotten these advancement points, etc.

You can't get kill counts in low level dungeons. This would require people to kill grind ao3.

I have a twink and its ok. I love PvP but its less ful when even at level 20 any character type can insta kill you. Before it will be fun it has to be fair.





Ok let me try this and see what you think.

*This will start with the next expansion where everyone is on a fresh start with gear grinding and quests and the such.
*Use a combination of both NPC kills and Boss kills.
*Add the new Boss Kill Points stat in.
*Increase the Kill count minimum to 15k
*Increase the Boss Kill minimum to 15k
*If your max level, every XX,000th NPC kill you get thats over 15,000(in other words when you roll over the XX,000 mark) you will get 3 stats points.
*If you are max level, every XX,000th Boss Kill Point you get that is over 15,000 will give you 2 stat points.
*NPC kill points are awarded as they are now:Whoever gets the final hit on a MOB that cons atleast "blue" to you.
*Boss Kill Points are gained 2 ways:
-Each Boss killed awards each person in the game at that time 5 boss kill points.
-Whenever a lever(only in the newest expansion) is cleared, each person who is in the game when the final MOB is killed received a bonus Boss Kill Points in the amount of (Total Bosses in the game * 10).


What I believe this will do is a few things.

1. With this system, a level 1 who just simply goes into a higher level game will not pick up many kills and will have to do LOTS of kills before gaining stats for killing.

2. NPC kills get 3 stats because it will take a bit longer to achieve 1000 NPC kills than 1000 boss kill points.

3. This encourages people to FINISH the levels. Only farming for 1 boss ina level and quitting will get you NPC kills, and a very few Boss Kill Points, by taking a little more time you can just finish the level. By not finishing levels, you will level your stats more slowly than doing full levels.

4. Players will not only farm the easiest level because traditionally the higher the level gets the more bosses are in that level. For instance in AO3 level 1, their are 2 bosses. So with the 2 bosses you get 5 each so 10 BKP from killing the 2 bosses and an additional (2bosses * 10 = 20 BKP from completing the stage. Thats only 30. With crush the keeper you have 2 bosses for sure and 2 random spawns. So in the 2nd stage you can potentially gain 60 BKP(4 bosses X 5 = 20 .. and 4 bosses X 10 = 40... 20 + 40 = 60).


So in review, new characters have more incentive to play their appropriate levels, thus making for more people to play with at lower levels. Reduce the amount of WAY to low level characters in high level games. Give characters at max level and have the best gear a way to slowly better your character over time by playing the game. Allows Max level PVP to be a bit more fair as characters can increase HPs, armor, dodge etc via extra stats. Gives additional incentive for characters to finish a full level instead of creating a level just to kill 1 boss and quitting, this makes it easier for people to advance all the way through the expansion levels. Encourages people to form friends that are good players in order to allow faster games with less wipes.

I feel like this would do a lot. What do you think about that type of system les?

your putting the kill numbers waaaaaayyyyyyy too high. This is just totally unfair, because some ppl just like to PvP. This would force them to leave PvP and grind ao3 all day if they want to keep up with others in PvP pwning. Also I think there needs to be limits on how much you can do. Say skill wise, you can only reach lvl 10 on skills. This just eliminates players like Oreii with 365k kills from being uber gods.


Also, when system is implanted, peoples current kill counts will be added. Like Les said, I refuse to touch ao3 after cyber. I did the work for my kills, so why not get rewarded for the work?

[Pharcyde]

Also just thought of something different. This just makes gold even more useless and gears even cheaper. Why not use the forging/enchanting system that was suggested? Gives gold its worth again and keeps prices of top gears were they belong. I'll post link.

Heres what I thought of (Oh my god lol old old thread) - http://www.spacetimestudios.com/show...hlight=Forging

Then heres the official beast forging page - http://www.spacetimestudios.com/show...ing-Suggestion

[Lesrider]

DD's forging system is wonderful. It would give meaning to both gold and equipment again.

[Pharcyde]

Agreed, I vote scrapping the whole kills for stat system and go for forging. Item prices will be high again (Yay!) and there will be some diversity in top players (forging with different sets of gears for different sets of bonus's). Who knows, maybe if someone forges cosmos and wraith and has cosmos favored. Then it would be like some cool looking cosmos armor that has dex/int bonus's split.

Like this would be the armor you get for combining cosmos and rift (Example..)

[Lesrider]

Oh I was thinking more simplified, like what DD has -- you invest money into an item to level it up, and then you get to add a stat point to it. Each time you level, it costs more gold. And of course there's a level cap.
With DD it's great, but here it would be even better, since there's so little room for variety. With this system, you could add ms if you need it or armor if you need that more. I don't play pvp, but it would make that more interesting too.

Of course there has to be a level limit or people would get way overpowered.

This would be great, too, for the elite campaign coming up, since it should be much more challenging.

Edit: unlike DD, I think if you sell an upgraded item, it should revert back to lvl 1 before you sell it. I also don't think you should be able to trade a lvl 10 item. Force people to work for these items, like the cyber items. Too many people have gotten lazy and don't farm their own crap.

[derricks2]

Agreed, I vote scrapping the whole kills for stat system and go for forging. Item prices will be high again (Yay!) and there will be some diversity in top players (forging with different sets of gears for different sets of bonus's). Who knows, maybe if someone forges cosmos and wraith and has cosmos favored. Then it would be like some cool looking cosmos armor that has dex/int bonus's split.

Like this would be the armor you get for combining cosmos and rift (Example..)

I think a ongoing system that rewards people for how long they have played that character is best. Gear based system are ok, but eventually you get the best gear and then your right back to "what makes me want to log in today?" Right now i am at that point. I have only played 2 months but I love the game, its mechanics, the way it runs..etc It has great potential, it just needs a long term mechanic to keep people playing. Expansions are too slow. 99 might be the "end game" but thats years away.

As it is now(and even with some sort of item imbuing etc like that other thread) I will still get the best gear eventually, and my character will be able to advance no further until the next expansion. Example, I make a bear to tank with. I get one of the lvl 50 friends I made to power level me to 50 in a couple of days(if that). I throw a million into the market and buy the best stuff. BOOM, statistically I am as good as the best tank in the game. Even with the item imbuing/fusing thing, its just a matter of time before I am as good/better(statistically) than the best tank out there.

However, what this system would offer is that if you had been playing your bear for a year, and I just power leveled mine up, you would have tons of kills, lets say 30,000 or 40,000 kills. At 3 stats per 1k kills over 15k, thats 45 - 75 more STR to add. Thats not counting if they also add in the "boss kill" thing. In other words, your individual characters experiences count for something. All the time it takes leveling, all the time it takes to get that gear, all the time spend grinding quests and stuff all means something permanently. when the next expansion comes out and everyone gets new gear, your and that newly PLed bear are FAR different. To start, you may have the same newest gear, but the experienced player will still have more ar, dodge, HP etc and be a much more effective tank, as he should be being more of a veteran tank.

It just makes sense. With the gear idea, you start all over everytime a new expansion comes out, with my system you get to take all that with you. Even if you DID do the retroactive thing, thats still ok with me. As long as the time I put into my character means something permanently. If I spend 10 hours grinding for gear AND getting kills for more stats at the same time, when the next expansion comes out, the gear gets dumped for new stuff, but the stats I got for my time spend getting that gear stays so that the time I spend still means something. With gear based additions, if you spend 10 hours grinding gear, then 3 months later a new expansion comes out and you go after new gear, you have NOTHING to show for the 10 hours you spent getting that gear.

Its about making a system that cant be cheated, or gotten easily. Something that cant be "grinded" or "power leveled." Getting a few stats for 1000 kills isnt something people will "Grind" because theirs no end goal to "grind" to. People will log in and play the game and the more they do that the stronger they will be. Its even because everyone has the same opportunity. Even with 100k kills and 150 or so extra stats to give doesnt make a HUGE difference. A bit more HP, a couple more %% crit, a bit more damage etc..

I want the time I spend in a game to mean something, not be wasted. I need a reason to play.

[Pharcyde]

Oh I was thinking more simplified, like what DD has -- you invest money into an item to level it up, and then you get to add a stat point to it. Each time you level, it costs more gold. And of course there's a level cap.
With DD it's great, but here it would be even better, since there's so little room for variety. With this system, you could add ms if you need it or armor if you need that more. I don't play pvp, but it would make that more interesting too.

Of course there has to be a level limit or people would get way overpowered.

This would be great, too, for the elite campaign coming up, since it should be much more challenging.

Edit: unlike DD, I think if you sell an upgraded item, it should revert back to lvl 1 before you sell it. I also don't think you should be able to trade a lvl 10 item. Force people to work for these items, like the cyber items. Too many people have gotten lazy and don't farm their own crap.

I think they should be gear combines. I would be all for gold for item upgrades, but then that just makes gear still useless. We need a system to scrap valuables better or a system where rares can leave the system (die you loose your gears). I know that might sound like a bad idea since items cost anywhere from 100k to 900k. Thats why I suggest extreme game modes and standard game modes. Extreme game modes have a chance at very very good rewards. The more you risk, the more potential of a super reward you get.

Or a Wilderness system like in Runescape, I know I know, its runescapes system... But what else can we do to dump some of these excess items?

Also I think you should be able to sell your lvl 10 forged items. What happens when new gears come out and your lvl 10 gear becomes useless? Lots and Lots of wasted money. Plus if that person has enough money to buy a lvl 10 item, then he has to have done some farming.

I think a ongoing system that rewards people for how long they have played that character is best. Gear based system are ok, but eventually you get the best gear and then your right back to "what makes me want to log in today?" Right now i am at that point. I have only played 2 months but I love the game, its mechanics, the way it runs..etc It has great potential, it just needs a long term mechanic to keep people playing. Expansions are too slow. 99 might be the "end game" but thats years away.

As it is now(and even with some sort of item imbuing etc like that other thread) I will still get the best gear eventually, and my character will be able to advance no further until the next expansion. Example, I make a bear to tank with. I get one of the lvl 50 friends I made to power level me to 50 in a couple of days(if that). I throw a million into the market and buy the best stuff. BOOM, statistically I am as good as the best tank in the game. Even with the item imbuing/fusing thing, its just a matter of time before I am as good/better(statistically) than the best tank out there.

However, what this system would offer is that if you had been playing your bear for a year, and I just power leveled mine up, you would have tons of kills, lets say 30,000 or 40,000 kills. At 3 stats per 1k kills over 15k, thats 45 - 75 more STR to add. Thats not counting if they also add in the "boss kill" thing. In other words, your individual characters experiences count for something. All the time it takes leveling, all the time it takes to get that gear, all the time spend grinding quests and stuff all means something permanently. when the next expansion comes out and everyone gets new gear, your and that newly PLed bear are FAR different. To start, you may have the same newest gear, but the experienced player will still have more ar, dodge, HP etc and be a much more effective tank, as he should be being more of a veteran tank.

It just makes sense. With the gear idea, you start all over everytime a new expansion comes out, with my system you get to take all that with you. Even if you DID do the retroactive thing, thats still ok with me. As long as the time I put into my character means something permanently. If I spend 10 hours grinding for gear AND getting kills for more stats at the same time, when the next expansion comes out, the gear gets dumped for new stuff, but the stats I got for my time spend getting that gear stays so that the time I spend still means something. With gear based additions, if you spend 10 hours grinding gear, then 3 months later a new expansion comes out and you go after new gear, you have NOTHING to show for the 10 hours you spent getting that gear.

Its about making a system that cant be cheated, or gotten easily. Something that cant be "grinded" or "power leveled." Getting a few stats for 1000 kills isnt something people will "Grind" because theirs no end goal to "grind" to. People will log in and play the game and the more they do that the stronger they will be. Its even because everyone has the same opportunity. Even with 100k kills and 150 or so extra stats to give doesnt make a HUGE difference. A bit more HP, a couple more %% crit, a bit more damage etc..

I want the time I spend in a game to mean something, not be wasted. I need a reason to play.

wow... that was a lot to read. The problem with all of this is that it forces PvP'ers to come out of PvP. Many PvP'ers play solely for pvp and thats it. I personally would hate having to leave PvP and farm 50k kills just to compete with the brand spankin new PvPer that anyone should be able to crush.

Also you said small differences in stats doesnt make a huge difference, yeah it does. 1 extra crit is the difference between 5 dodged hits in a row and 3 hits and 2 dodges.

Also remember that we are only on level 50. End game is suppost to be lvl 99. I can assure you that to get from say level 80 to 81 will almost be the same amount of exp required levels 1-50. At least if they approach this like other MMO's. Runescape, you can get to level 1-50 super fast. But then level 70 requires more exp just for one level then 1-50 combined. We will also be getting pets, housing, and guilds eventually, should be plenty to do.

[derricks2]

wow... that was a lot to read. The problem with all of this is that it forces PvP'ers to come out of PvP. Many PvP'ers play solely for pvp and thats it. I personally would hate having to leave PvP and farm 50k kills just to compete with the brand spankin new PvPer that anyone should be able to crush.

Also you said small differences in stats doesnt make a huge difference, yeah it does. 1 extra crit is the difference between 5 dodged hits in a row and 3 hits and 2 dodges.

Also remember that we are only on level 50. End game is suppost to be lvl 99. I can assure you that to get from say level 80 to 81 will almost be the same amount of exp required levels 1-50. At least if they approach this like other MMO's. Runescape, you can get to level 1-50 super fast. But then level 70 requires more exp just for one level then 1-50 combined. We will also be getting pets, housing, and guilds eventually, should be plenty to do.

Again this is just a concept. They can add, every 1k pvp kills you add 5 stat points.

As for the "small differences in stats" I meant the stats themselves. I know 1% crit is huge, but it takes like 50 dex to get 1% crit.. so +3 stat points in itself is small and doesnt make much of an impact, but, getting 16,000 extra kills to make the 16 * 3 = 48 stat points that would equal 1% crit.. that makes a impact, but it takes a LOT of work to get 16k kills, so that would mean that person earned that 1% crit.. it wasnt handed to them. Those that put in the work SHOULD reap benefits.

Ok, even if they had pets, and guilds, and houses.. that means nothing. Once you can advance your character no more things get old. Once you build you house, thats done too. Theirs no sense of ongoing enhancement. As far as the level cap being 99, well EQ2 and WoW have said their goal is level 99 too. Its been HOW many years for those games... and I think EQ2 is at 80 and WOW is at like 75 cap. Again, you need people to stay playing until you GET to 99, a promise that within the next 6 years the cap will be 99 isnt enough to get me to log in everyday for the next 6 years, or even 1 expansion to the next. As it is.. you get your fill of the content.. then you wait. Ive just saw posts from vets like Twink and Kos and both have moved onto a different game. Theirs a reason. Lack of ability to advance. Once you have achieved all you can, then you lose purpose to play. A gear based solution(just like the latest armor/weapon quest) is a bandaid... a temporary fix. It made your gave fun for a week, but now where are you? You completed it and now your right back where you were before.. waiting on the next update and no reason to play until because you can gain nothing.

[bladesword]

Eh, people would just spend all day by plothozz, killing mummies.

....My sig....

This comment was made by a person who never knew how many months it took for ao2 to be out.

[Pharcyde]

Again this is just a concept. They can add, every 1k pvp kills you add 5 stat points.

As for the "small differences in stats" I meant the stats themselves. I know 1% crit is huge, but it takes like 50 dex to get 1% crit.. so +3 stat points in itself is small and doesnt make much of an impact, but, getting 16,000 extra kills to make the 16 * 3 = 48 stat points that would equal 1% crit.. that makes a impact, but it takes a LOT of work to get 16k kills, so that would mean that person earned that 1% crit.. it wasnt handed to them. Those that put in the work SHOULD reap benefits.

Ok, even if they had pets, and guilds, and houses.. that means nothing. Once you can advance your character no more things get old. Once you build you house, thats done too. Theirs no sense of ongoing enhancement. As far as the level cap being 99, well EQ2 and WoW have said their goal is level 99 too. Its been HOW many years for those games... and I think EQ2 is at 80 and WOW is at like 75 cap. Again, you need people to stay playing until you GET to 99, a promise that within the next 6 years the cap will be 99 isnt enough to get me to log in everyday for the next 6 years, or even 1 expansion to the next. As it is.. you get your fill of the content.. then you wait. Ive just saw posts from vets like Twink and Kos and both have moved onto a different game. Theirs a reason. Lack of ability to advance. Once you have achieved all you can, then you lose purpose to play. A gear based solution(just like the latest armor/weapon quest) is a bandaid... a temporary fix. It made your gave fun for a week, but now where are you? You completed it and now your right back where you were before.. waiting on the next update and no reason to play until because you can gain nothing.

I'm sick of arguing my point over and over again, so lets just end it. Either way, your solution isn't a perminate fix either, merely a band-aid. Do you think TT would make this his main game again just so he can farm tens of thousands of kills?
Forging goes for all levels, current and future, so any gears can be forged up. I'm pretty sure gear bonus's would appeal more to players then farming kills nonstop for character experience.

[Ellyidol]

You can't compare wow and other mmorpgs to PL. We're playing on mobile devices. And wow/other games can afford to take that long because they have systems that extend current end game content. Be it enchanting, farming for the gear since they're so rare, or something (not too familiar with wow, too big a game for me).

Sure the Pvp/pve kills sound good. For the Pvp part, I see an exploit opportunity. The pve part is fine, but with how weak mobs are now it still tends to get boring. I farmed 5-8k kills in about two days when gold dropped a lot in ao3.

[Pharcyde]

Its a simple concept though.

<Action>Gold=<5000</Action>
<Effect>AB+1%</Effect>
<Rerun>-9999</Rerun>

Lol I know not exactly proper code, has been like 6 years since I used C++ and Java coding. But you get the concept of it.