S&S's arcane ability (pvp)

[Madnex]

Just how many times we have to go over why older mythic/arcane pets won't be buffed? If your season-one mythic pet could compete with season-five new mythic pet, who would even bother paying for that then? Requesting buffing those is plain selfish.



As for the topic's subject, the new pet is fine as it is; like mentioned above CTF clashes is probably the one and only scenario that SnS is better than Samael. I think we all agree the Samael has overstayed its welcome being the overall best arcane pet for much longer than it should have -- and it still is, for 90% of the game -- so taking away the sole advantage SnS has just because people have not yet adjusted to dealing with it in a specific situation is plain absurd.

[Skaunared]

It will not be that easy to walk away from the AA in a CTF clash, considering that other players in the same team can use Panic, Stun AA in sync with the S&S AA. The Enemy Team will be just like fish, swimming in boiling water! XD

[Ninjasmurf]

Just how many times we have to go over why older mythic/arcane pets won't be buffed? If your season-one mythic pet could compete with season-five new mythic pet, who would even bother paying for that then? Requesting buffing those is plain selfish.



As for the topic's subject, the new pet is fine as it is; like mentioned above CTF clashes is probably the one and only scenario that SnS is better than Samael. I think we all agree the Samael has overstayed its welcome being the overall best arcane pet for much longer than it should have -- and it still is, for 90% of the game -- so taking away the sole advantage SnS has just because people have not yet adjusted to dealing with it in a specific situation is plain absurd.

If old ARCANE pets aren't buffed they will eventually become useless like the arcane hooks. Do you think it's ok for STS to discontinue pets like Samael in the future?

[Bless]

1. It is only OP is the pools stack. If you stand in just one pool, your HoT keeps up with the DoT damage. No it doesn't. One pool does 250 dmg per 0.5 seconds - so thats approx 500 dmg per second. And there are chances of having 1+ SnS's in a CTF game so its easy for the pools to stack to do 1k damage per second easily..Aren't mages doomed? Are you forgetting that there are players in pvp? Rogues can do 3k crits and mages can 2 hit rogues. Now combine this with the 500dmg-per-second pools of SnS. The heals that warriors, mages and rogues do are intended to save them from players' shots - not a crazy OP dot.

2. It is only OP in areas with minimal space because pools get the chance to stack. Right, but smart people can make the pools stack with ease by using walls and corners so even in large spaces like tdm its not impossible.

3. It only does 6k damage in 10 seconds if every single pool sticks which the chances of that happening are very very slight. If it does happen, simply don't go into the pool. Common sense, right? With the pools stacked, there's much more area for you to maneuver around it. So when more than one or two SnS's are combined, it is a gg right? People can make this happen. I know a guild with 12 SnS, and one with 4.

4. It is only better than Samael in CTF. In all other categories including TDM and Elites, Samael is much better. Does that mean that Samael should be nerfed too? Sorry, but there should be versatility. One pet should not dominate every area of the game. SnS is not that pet - it only shines in certain areas of the game which is why it has the sticker price that it does. Well duh. Samael isn't intended as a saviour pet. Its only natural - like how Whimm is better than samael in pvp - every pet has their ups and downs.

I think you're exaggerating about the usefulness of the pet as being ONLY useful in CTF, thats incorrect. It has great base stats so that gives it an edge. It can be beast in Arena too because of the little combat space and the green pools would help.

People should accept that Samael cannot be the best pet in every single category. It is still a very formidable pet and can easily compete, if not best SnS. So, please stop exaggerating the level of OPness the pet has and get it nerfed. It's powerful in ONE area of the game, ONE! Hypocritical comment, eh?In every other aspect, it is weaker when compared to Samael. Nobody's comparing SnS to samael. Pvp isnt just about samael - ya know? There are people that own glacians, singes and whimm etc and they literally can't stand a chance in ANY situation.

In bold.

8, I think? 4 healing, 4 damage. Or maybe it's 3 of each? Either way, it's rare to have more than 2 stack which is why this is really just an exaggeration by players. Its 4 of each.

And it isn't an exaggeration. The green pools heal 500 hp per second (250 per 0.5 seconds), and they last ~5 seconds which heals around 2500 hp. Thats >= a mage heal. Now this is appoximately a calculation for 1 pool only. Imagine 2-3 (out of 4) green pools stack? That's around 5k+ of health healed. Its not the stack we are concerned about, its the effect of that stack.

It is potent in CTF? Yes. When you said that 'yes', did you think how many people play ctf? Thousands a day...One SnS can be a game changer However, overall, it is not an OP pet. It is just stronger than Samael in a clash scenario which players cannot seem to accept. Which is the most popular mode of pvp nowadays.

Also, players that are trying to get it nerfed fail to mention that the more the pools stack, the more maneuverability they get. Gosh, you don't give some of the most important details...You can be pushed, pullled, stunned or rooted inside the pools so the maneuverability thing you are talking about, it's easier said than done.So, as I said before...joystick exists for a reason. Our characters are not NPCs. Simply move around the pool, right?

You are correct. I am trying to nerf it a little. But righteously because it is an OP pet. You underestimate it in tdm too, have you seen the range of the pools? And how many there are? 4 pools with atleast 4m range each. In a tdm situation it is wise to scatter the pools - so making the pet not stand near any walls - I'm sure you knew that already? In pve I am not sure, but then again, samael isn't the best pet after pet spam got fixed. The pet is well comparable to any other top arcane pet and is in no way weak.

Heres input from an average pvp player with a new mythic bow:

What would happen if 5 shady and surges were in pvp (ctf and tdm)? They simply would wreck the opposition. And that overlapping effect should be nerfed. Maybe limit the number of overlaps to 2, a fair compromise IMO.

[Haligali]

It will not be that easy to walk away from the AA in a CTF clash, considering that other players in the same team can use Panic, Stun AA in sync with the S&S AA. The Enemy Team will be just like fish, swimming in boiling water! XD

Thats a big difference, so can wipe out someone if the pools overlapping And been stunned or terrified .. while samael alone is deadly, s&s need stun or panic from somewhere else. I think this thread is a bit overreacted, the new mythic gun proc is way more a game changer(thanks sts), havent seen anyone complaining about it.

[Madnex]

If old ARCANE pets aren't buffed they will eventually become useless like the arcane hooks. Do you think it's ok for STS to discontinue pets like Samael in the future?

Circle of life? You can't expect to have the best items for six seasons without spending a cent after the initial purchase. Samael is an exception since he was made way too OP to begin with and now that he was finally bested at one area of the game and one alone, people complain!

If they were to bring out a pet that can outperform Samael more notably then I don't see why he should not be discontinued or stop dropping from locked chests like hooks were. Highly unlikely though, since the pets have no level restrictions.

[Ninjasmurf]

Circle of life? You can't expect to have the best items for six seasons without spending a cent after the initial purchase. Samael is an exception since he was made way too OP to begin with and now that he was finally bested at one area of the game and one alone, people complain!

If they were to bring out a pet that can outperform Samael more notably then I don't see why he should not be discontinued or stop dropping from locked chests like hooks were. Highly unlikely though, since the pets have no level restrictions.

You misunderstood.. I'm not saying that samael should be buffed to be better than shady and surge. I'm saying that if the old arcane pets like hammerjaw, and glacian don't get a buff next season I won't consider them arcanes anymore. We've already seen how a legendary pet (dovabear) can compare to an arcane.

Does it make sense for a pet to cost over 100mil? This clearly shows how over powered shady is compared to hammerjaw which is 5mil. If they're both arcane why should
1 shady and surge = 20 hammerjaws?

This game is starting to get impossible for non-plat buyers. Just when I got the best gear this pet came out and now I'll get farmed in pvp again
Looks like I'll have to merch for another 2 seasons and be bored again until I can afford shady...
To be able to compete in endgame pvp you need 200mil+ now? Maybe sts should change the maximum gold to 100billion. I'll stop raging here and hope that changes are made

[Skaunared]

Thats a big difference, so can wipe out someone if the pools overlapping And been stunned or terrified .. while samael alone is deadly, s&s need stun or panic from somewhere else. I think this thread is a bit overreacted, the new mythic gun proc is way more a game changer(thanks sts), havent seen anyone complaining about it.

Samael's AA alone isn't deadly, it needs damage from somewhere else too (player skills). S&S AA is the gamechanger now as it does a huge amount of damage that can wipe out a poor mage or rogue, and make a warrior's hp down to 30%. No other pet AA can deal even half that damage.

And also about the gun, no one complains that it is OP because it is a PROC. It is only by chance, it doesn't happen 100% of the time. The gun is good but not too overpowered! If the gun's proc is like "chance to proc a poison pool that deals 500 dmg per sec for 10 secs" then that's what I call op.

Back to topic, in my opinion, I think the DoT of S&S should be reduced by 20-30% in pvp.


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[Zeus]

In bold.




You are correct. I am trying to nerf it a little. But righteously because it is an OP pet. You underestimate it in tdm too, have you seen the range of the pools? And how many there are? 4 pools with atleast 4m range each. In a tdm situation it is wise to scatter the pools - so making the pet not stand near any walls - I'm sure you knew that already? In pve I am not sure, but then again, samael isn't the best pet after pet spam got fixed. The pet is well comparable to any other top arcane pet and is in no way weak.

Heres input from an average pvp player with a new mythic bow:

What would happen if 5 shady and surges were in pvp (ctf and tdm)? They simply would wreck the opposition. And that overlapping effect should be nerfed. Maybe limit the number of overlaps to 2, a fair compromise IMO.

First off, it does not do 250 damage every .5 seconds, it is more like 200 damage. Secondly, as I stated before...you can avoid the pools. Who is telling you to walk through the pools other than yourself, Bless?

Secondly, if the pools stack, that gives more area that they DID NOT cover. Therefore, you have even more maneuverability to just step aside from the pool. Also, if a pool lands on top of you & you are standing still, it will not do damage so please do not give the argument that you can be stunned and then covered with a pool.

Thirdly, what about Samaels? If you stack Samaels, it's GG as well with the constant panics. I for one enjoy the variety in PvP.

Fourthly, Whim is not better than Samael in PvP. At most, they are considered equal in PvE. It all depends on your play style. Personally, I prefer to have constant armor reduction so I utilize whims. Samael is still hands down best pet to use in almost any category.

It gives great stats at what cost? We do not get the mana regeneration of Samael nor do we get the stun. It's like you are completely ignoring the checks and balances developers have already logically laid out.

Lastly, if pool lands on top of you and you are standing still/stunned, it will not do any damage to you. So, any other time that you are in the pool means that you either walked or were pushed into it. If you were pushed into it, can you not walk out? Learn pool radius and take precautions. What's the point of having an AA that poofs fairy dust?

[Remiem]

Thank you for the feedback, guys. I've passed it along to the devs to review and we'll make announcements if we plan to make any changes to Shady & Surge. Closing this one up now before it gets further out of hand.