Guide to Advanced Mechanics in PL: DPS, Crits, etc.

[Ravenous]

Physiologic, I saw you in game and you are using new gear. Any chances that we could get the new gear added to your original spreadsheet?

[Physiologic]

Physiologic, I saw you in game and you are using new gear. Any chances that we could get the new gear added to your original spreadsheet?

I only have a mixture of lv 51/53 pinks that I am currently wearing. If I make a comparison of the new pinks I'll most likely end up doing lv 55s only, since that is what's considered end-game (the lv 51 and 53 armor have the same stats but the weapon damage is different between levels).

Expect to see all this here: http://www.spacetimestudios.com/show...r-Skills-Guide

[noobmigo]

I wonder if armor affects crit chance as well.

[Physiologic]

I wonder if armor affects crit chance as well.

I believe armor only affects damage dealt; you can see what Royce has to say about that since he knows more than me regarding mechanics

[WhoIsThis]

I think that I once heard someone officially say that armor and critical damage probability are independent in the game. The person sounded very knowledgeable, although I really do wish that I had something more solid to cite with. It's entirely possible that a patch may have changed that. Still, I think that unless a dev says otherwise or someone else has some solid information to the contrary, we can safely assume that they are independent.

Perhaps there is an upper limit to crit. What we know for sure is that the upper limit can't be more than 100% - ex: every shot lands a crit, which effectively doubles your damage.

Also, are special abilities affected by crit the same way that weapons damage is? It could be that special abilities like blast shot described earlier are less likely to hit a crit. I suppose though again, we should assume until proven otherwise that critical hits work the same way. If that is the case, focus is the ability to cast first for birds as is blessings of might for mages.

[Physiologic]

I'm relatively new to the game compared to other players - I'm unsure if Cinco announces changes to certain mechanics or formulas or if he changes them without notice.

And unless the skill description states "+5 crit" in blast shot, I'll assume that special abilities don't have any other procs to them.

[WhoIsThis]

I did some of my own testing and although you have probably realized this - armor is twice as effective against crit:

Regular Hit = Weapon Damage - Armor
Critical Hit = 2 x Weapon Damage - 2x Armor

What's interesting is that it is not:

Critical Hit = 2 x Weapon Damage - Armor

Critical hits still do 2 times the effective damage, but it's interesting that it's not a bit more than that. Perhaps that should be noted in your guide.

I also did a bit of testing and I think that the probability for spells (at least fire blast for my mage anyways - I don't really know if each ability is different, but I don't think so) hitting critically is the same as for weapons.

[Physiologic]

I did some of my own testing and although you have probably realized this - armor is twice as effective against crit:

Regular Hit = Weapon Damage - Armor
Critical Hit = 2 x Weapon Damage - 2x Armor

What's interesting is that it is not:

Critical Hit = 2 x Weapon Damage - Armor

Critical hits still do 2 times the effective damage, but it's interesting that it's not a bit more than that. Perhaps that should be noted in your guide.

I also did a bit of testing and I think that the probability for spells (at least fire blast for my mage anyways - I don't really know if each ability is different, but I don't think so) hitting critically is the same as for weapons.

Void set, Without Focus: Hit% 140, Crit 21, Damage 180-225

132 230C 122 151 141 123 118 145 308C 112
251C dodge 145 119 117 124 129 dodge 121 116
116 118 131 133 120 123 147 142 dodge 130
144 dodge 119 149 miss 124 miss 134 128 dodge
dodge 112 142 136 134 112 206C 119 117 128
151 279C 128 115 287C 221C 143 miss 128 300C
133 147 198C 121 291C 141 255C dodge 131 115
dodge miss 274C 153 116 133 109 126 129 132
154 129 113 131 dodge dodge 113 121 dodge 125
144 127 131 dodge 130 224C 111 130 257C 126

Total attempted hits in Close Encounters: 100
Dodge/miss: 16
Successful hits: 84

Non-criticals landed: 70 (83.33%)
Non-critical damage range: 109-154
Total non-critical damage: 9009
Average non-critical damage: 128.7

Criticals landed: 14 (16.67%)
Critical damage range: 198-300
Total critical damage: 3581
Average critical damage: 255.8

Total damage (non-crit and crit): 12,590

Since those damages I've listed in my trial runs were already considered 'effective damage' (damage - enemy armor) and not just 'damage', the critical damage seen takes into account effective damage.

So yes, in terms of regular weapon damage range, your formula is correct; another way to write it is crit hit = 2 x (effective damage), where effective damage is weapon damage - enemy armor.

[MoonYeol]

The only way for the hit/crit/armor/dodge to make any sense is if;

1) Your hit% caps at 100% (Maybe lower or armor of mobs somehow affect the incoming attack's hit %)

2) Your hit% is lowered by debuffs. That's the reason why you want >100% hit. When you're debuffed your hit will go down to <100% (especially in PvP)

3) Dodge overrules hit% I.e you have a certain chance to hit, first you roll if you're going to hit. Then the enemy rolls if he will dodge the attack. Dodge works independently of hit, therefore it doesn't seem like dodge is simply a -hit% stat. Dodge debuffs will only decrease dodge to ≥0 %, if you debuff a mob with 5% dodge with a -25% dodge debuff. It will still be 0%, dodge does not count as a -hit%.

4) Damage is (damage-armor), Pocket Legends seems to be constructed of a pure point system rather than % increase, regarding damage and armor.

5) A critical hit is calculated after the hit damage. I.e. if you have 200 avg dmg, the mob has 75 armor. Your hit will be 125 avg dmg. The critical is 2(dmg-armor) instead of 2(dmg)-armor. So a critical is calculated after the armor damage reduction, which is purely based on numerical values instead of a percentage decrease.

----------------------------------------------------------------

This means that the chain of calculations is;

1) What is your chance to hit? Hit% - debuffs
2) What is the enemy's chance to dodge? Actual chance to hit (≤100%) - dodge%
3) What will your effective dmg be? Dmg roll (min-max dmg) - (armor)
4) Will you crit? (crit% ≤100%) Yes?
5) What will your critical dmg be? (effective dmg x 2)

These aren't facts, they are just my postulated hypothesis based on logic and experience. If anybody wants to prove/disprove, feel free to do so and I'd be happy to get a PM about the outcome.

[Physiologic]

Pretty much agree with everything you've got there, the only questionable thing in my data was in the first roll (hit%) where MISS values (shown above your head) were really all over the place while DODGE values (shown above enemy's head) stayed around the same. An enemy's effective dodge (your hit% - enemy dodge%) should somewhat correlate with the MISS's but they haven't. I may need to do another run eventually to straighten this out.

[DontNerfMeBro]

Wonderfully extensive post...much appreciated.

To be dead honest, I didn't read the entire thread from top to bottom so forgive me if this has already been discussed.

It seems logical that DODGE and HIT% are not actually related in the attack equation. Almost as if the HIT potential is calculated first and if it misses, that's the end of it. If the attack is successful, then a separate DODGE equation is calculated to see if damage is dealt. Could the same thing be said for CRIT?

Could this make sense?

DODGE : Defense :: CRIT : Offense

[MoonYeol]

Pretty much agree with everything you've got there, the only questionable thing in my data was in the first roll (hit%) where MISS values (shown above your head) were really all over the place while DODGE values (shown above enemy's head) stayed around the same. An enemy's effective dodge (your hit% - enemy dodge%) should somewhat correlate with the MISS's but they haven't. I may need to do another run eventually to straighten this out.

That is the intriguing part. Somehow I don't understand where the hit cap is. Maybe there is a lower hit% cap if you're unbuffed. Say, maybe 90% or something. Then, when you buff up your hit% you can reach the 100% cap. Seems to me we (you, I won't feel the need to do it) have to run another series of tests to check different hit% when the base hit% is already >100 with and w/o buffing up hit.

[MoonYeol]

Wonderfully extensive post...much appreciated.

To be dead honest, I didn't read the entire thread from top to bottom so forgive me if this has already been discussed.

It seems logical that DODGE and HIT% are not actually related in the attack equation. Almost as if the HIT potential is calculated first and if it misses, that's the end of it. If the attack is successful, then a separate DODGE equation is calculated to see if damage is dealt. Could the same thing be said for CRIT?

Could this make sense?

DODGE : Defense :: CRIT : Offense

That's about as much as I get out of it.
If your hit roll fails, end of story. If your hit roll is successful, your enemy will make a dodge roll. If it succeeds, end of story. If your enemy's dodge roll fails, you can make a crit roll, if it succeeds you will strike a 2x(dmg-armor) crit.

[Physiologic]

Wonderfully extensive post...much appreciated.

To be dead honest, I didn't read the entire thread from top to bottom so forgive me if this has already been discussed.

It seems logical that DODGE and HIT% are not actually related in the attack equation. Almost as if the HIT potential is calculated first and if it misses, that's the end of it. If the attack is successful, then a separate DODGE equation is calculated to see if damage is dealt. Could the same thing be said for CRIT?

Could this make sense?

DODGE : Defense :: CRIT : Offense

MoonYeol has an accurate "roll" succession from the beginning of an attack to the end of the attack (2 posts above yours).

This means that the chain of calculations is;

1) What is your chance to hit? Hit% - debuffs
2) What is the enemy's chance to dodge? Actual chance to hit (≤100%) - dodge%
3) What will your effective dmg be? Dmg roll (min-max dmg) - (armor)
4) Will you crit? (crit% ≤100%) Yes?
5) What will your critical dmg be? (effective dmg x 2)

So yes, all enemy defensive measures are calculated first (hit%->dodge->armor) and then your offensive capabilities are seen (effective damage or crit).

That is the intriguing part. Somehow I don't understand where the hit cap is. Maybe there is a lower hit% cap if you're unbuffed. Say, maybe 90% or something. Then, when you buff up your hit% you can reach the 100% cap. Seems to me we (you, I won't feel the need to do it) have to run another series of tests to check different hit% when the base hit% is already >100 with and w/o buffing up hit.

I think there's only one cap to everything including hit%, just like the maximum armor cap before the enemy starts to do minimum damage on you. But I can probably run this again just to make sure (I've neglected this guide somewhat because I was working on my Crafting/Archer/Compendium guides and leveling to 56 but I'll try to update it more after I get to 56).

[DontNerfMeBro]

Yeah.. Stop neglecting your duties for making my life easier. <whip CRACK!> Back to work with you!

[Physiologic]

Don't taze me bro

[Suntv]

Wow, one of the best articles yet. Very interesting to see someone had actually investigated the things I always think about. I especially like part "VII. The Difference Between Damage and DPS, and Which To Choose". I never understood why the Blizzard Stick had an ultra high DPS (for an INT weapon), but somehow it never really affacted the Alien bosses. At first I though they had some sort of armor agains ice. But now I understand that each time you hit an enemy, the full armor has to be concluded in the calculations (which is strange). With a DPS of 294 (147 x 2 (speed 0.5)) it's still very hard to kill an AO1-3 boss. Other weapons with a DPS of 190 (190 x 1 (speed 1.0)) finish him/her off much faster.

Keep up the good work!

[MoonYeol]

Wow, one of the best articles yet. Very interesting to see someone had actually investigated the things I always think about. I especially like part "VII. The Difference Between Damage and DPS, and Which To Choose". I never understood why the Blizzard Stick had an ultra high DPS (for an INT weapon), but somehow it never really affacted the Alien bosses. At first I though they had some sort of armor agains ice. But now I understand that each time you hit an enemy, the full armor has to be concluded in the calculations (which is strange). With a DPS of 294 (147 x 2 (speed 0.5)) it's still very hard to kill an AO1-3 boss. Other weapons with a DPS of 190 (190 x 1 (speed 1.0)) finish him/her off much faster.

Keep up the good work!

Combined with rage/blessing of might, a high dps weapon can be really effective. Given that you use your debuffs properly. A lowered armor + increased dmg and a heck of an attack speed is a deadly combo. At least against a single target. For skills and spells, you want the highest base dmg you can possibly achieve.

Against a well armored opponent, every point in base dmg can be of essence. As well as each point in armor.

Let's do some easy math; You're farming a low lvl dungeon, you're a mage with 75 armor. The mobs have an average dmg of 95. So each hit will, on average, do 20 dmg to you. If there are 20 enemies attacking you, you will get 400 dmg with each round of attacks. That's pretty much what you can take as a pure int mage.

Let's increase your armor to 85 instead. The mobs will now do 20 x (95-85) = 200 dmg. Just by adding 10 armor, you've extended your stay in the line of fire.

It gets even more obvious how important armor is if you're farming somewhere where the mobs do even less dmg.

[cnneooo]

that's what i am looking for .thx alot

[Generators]

Thank you very much for sharing! I translated your post into Chinese and introduced it to my friends who also play this game and we all appreciate your essay!Hope you will not charge me for copyright, lol.
I have a question, physiologic. Your post is about a bird. Can you tell me your experiences as a mega if there is any. About weapon chosing, for a mega, it seems the fast speed weason is of no use. Because all my attacking skill will have 3-6 secs cool down and the normal attack is merely nothing.Does that mean I should pick up a weapon with low speed and high damage?
Thank you.