Rogue Fighting Style

[Zestee]

I often wonder how other rogues fight. For example, when I get to the boss, I like to get up close, and hold down then release. Rather than tap tap tap tap I mean. It's easier on the fingers/wrists! But on the times I change to tap tap tap, I feel like he dies faster. Am I imagining this?

Also, lots of rogues use their bow on the boss, but it's sooooooo slow!! I bought the best legendary bow available to me, and it still doesn't kill as fast as my daggers. But I seem to be the only rogue who feels this way. Maybe the day I bought my bow there wasn't much good stuff available?

My main weapon: 193.5dps, 45dex
My bow: 121dps, 31dex, 2.15 crit

I know the bow numbers are significantly smaller, but I'm told that's pretty normal, that they still do more damage....???? Confused....

[kinzmet]

My own PVE style with rogues are:
Daggers for mobs
Bows for bosses

Its all about the skill build, my choice of skills when figthing mobs were smoke, trap, noxiousbolt and shadow piercer. However I change the skill set when I reach the boss, they would be smoke, aimshot, noxious and shadow piercer.

Skills
Mobs
Use daggers for faster clearing.
-Traps : I set the traps on strategic position, in such a way the most mobs will step on it.
-Smoke : I love this skill, +armor and +damage. Works great specialy on elite maps.
-Noxiousbolt : Theres a guild on how to effectively use this skill, its called the noxbox. Try to learn it http://www.spacetimestudios.com/show...e-Nox-Bolt-Box
-Shadow piercer : It has a bug that allows shadow piercer to hit as hard as the Aimshot if it crits, only in PVE. This skill will save you a lots of health potions.

Boss
Use bow for faster boss kill.
-Smoke : Same as I mentioned above.
-Noxiousbolt : Same as I mentioned above.
-Shadow piercer : Same as I mentioned above.
-Aimshot : This skill is what makes rogues the fastest killers on timed runs, the strongest skill in the arsenal.



PS: The Razorshield is also a viable skill, specially on norder maps.

[Zestee]

Someone else told me they use more than one arrow, but I'm not sure why? And how can you have all those skills on one char, do you not get 5/5 for all of them? I'd be interested to know your choice of skill breakdown on one char to compare.....

[kinzmet]

-Some skills or upgrades are glitched.
-Some aren't good enough to get due to buff stacking glitch. (ei., the passive Damage skill will be override by happy bonus of damage pets)
-Some are really just not good enough. (ei., the Shadow storm shot)

This is not my PVE build, but this one is a good sample of a skill build. Its a level 41 build for elite runs.

Active skills

The main skill for killing enemies such as bosses
• 5/5 Aimed Shot

The poison DoT skill
• 4/5 Noxious Bolt
-Don't upgrade the Serated arrow head its glitched.

For faster movement and health potion saver
• 4/5 Shadow Piercer
-Don't upgrade the Leading dagger, its not worth the upgrade.

Choose a defensive skill, I prefer the Shadow Veil.
• 5/5 Medic Packs
or
• 4/5 Shadow Veil
-Don't get the Combustion Decay
-put the extra skill point to passive Critical

Bleed skills, I prefer the trap when combined with Shadow veil
• 4/5 Razor Shield
-Don't use the Increase duration upgrade its glitched.
or
• 4/5 Entangling trap
-Don't use the Combustion tank upgrade.

Passive skills

• 5/5 Agility

• 5/5 Knowledge

• 5/5 Might

• 4/5 Critical
-use this passive or go for Durable
-skill point can vary based on the active skills above

In the end it is still based on your play style or on what your comfortable way of doing things. Experiment on builds if you got respec kit or extra plats.

[Newcomx]

I mostly use bow, because i don't have good dagger ... And for tapping auto attack, if the weapon have weapon proc, don't charge it, the more often you tapping the auto attack, the more likely the proc will be activated.

[GoodSyntax]

I often wonder how other rogues fight. For example, when I get to the boss, I like to get up close, and hold down then release. Rather than tap tap tap tap I mean. It's easier on the fingers/wrists! But on the times I change to tap tap tap, I feel like he dies faster. Am I imagining this?

Also, lots of rogues use their bow on the boss, but it's sooooooo slow!! I bought the best legendary bow available to me, and it still doesn't kill as fast as my daggers. But I seem to be the only rogue who feels this way. Maybe the day I bought my bow there wasn't much good stuff available?

My main weapon: 193.5dps, 45dex
My bow: 121dps, 31dex, 2.15 crit

I know the bow numbers are significantly smaller, but I'm told that's pretty normal, that they still do more damage....???? Confused....

Fast auto attacks (i.e., tap, tap, tap) inflict damage faster than charged auto attacks. This is the DPS part.

Bows inflict more DMG per attack, which is why most rogues prefer them.

Or, you can do what I do, use a bow, fight in melee range with an aimed, nox, pierce combo, followed by tap, tap on auto, then repeat. It's not for the faint of heart though....

[Dvsk]

Simply bows for Damage
Daggers for DPS

The DPS shown of bows and daggers, it may show the bows being much less, but the DPS is acutally more. As it means Damage Per Second, bow fires at a faster rate than daggers, which means that it has a better/powerful attack. This is fully explained on a guide calling DPS VS DMG, (if someone could link thread would be useful) I forgotten the thread.

Bows are also helpful against bosses due to the range that they give, as rouges are quite weak (in terms of HP) just like mages, a ranged attack is good to hold against those one hits.

As well as that, tap tap tap would do more dmg than hold and charge. Again it is explain in DMG vs DPS.

[Zestee]

Thank you for posting that kinzmet, very helpful, I just re-spec'd to try it. Firstly, I really do like having more than one arrow. A question about it though. Let's say I am fighting boss, I have aimed shot and nox, plus tappity tap on the main one. But I've forgotten to change my weapon to the bow and am still holding daggers. Will that impact me greatly? Will I do much more damage if I had remembered to switch to the bow?

One more question for you, I don't understand your choices for the passive skills. Someone told me rogue is kill or be killed, that there is no need to invest in things like strength or knowledge, because those are for warriors or mages. So why use them?

Thank you!

[Zestee]

Or, you can do what I do, use a bow, fight in melee range with an aimed, nox, pierce combo, followed by tap, tap on auto, then repeat. It's not for the faint of heart though....

Just tried your combo on a boss, love it!

[Zestee]

Thank you DVSK, I had a lightbulb moment when I read what you said about bow firing faster than daggers... NOW it makes sense! I will look up the DPS VS DMG guide you mentioned too

[GoodSyntax]

Thank you DVSK, I had a lightbulb moment when I read what you said about bow firing faster than daggers... NOW it makes sense! I will look up the DPS VS DMG guide you mentioned too

It's the other way around. Daggers are much faster to attack than bows. As an example, if a bow can perform one auto attack once every second, daggers can attack twice every second, which is why daggers generally have superior DPS.

On the other hand, bows provide more DMG, and it is the DMG stat that is used to scale up your skill damage. To see an example, equip a dagger and check your skill damage on aimed shot, noxious bolt and shadow pierce. Then, equip a bow - you will see a jump in DMG, but a big drop in DPS. Compare skill damage once again, and usually, you will see that the bow gives more skill damage.

This is one of the reasons why most rogues prefer bows, especially in elite maps.

Daggers are terrific for normal maps, or anywhere that you can kill things in one to three auto attack hits. Plus, you get AoE damage on charged auto with daggers, which is also another nice feature. I typically prefer daggers when farming for eggs on normal maps, because I can charge auto and kill 3 mobs each time; whereas bows are single target only, so daggers dramatically speed up runs on normal maps.

[Zestee]

With Daggers:
damage = 370.9
DPS = 667.6

With Bow:
damage = 435.1
DPS = 435.1

That's what you'd expect? I have to be honest, I still don't really get the difference between damage and DPS, but I do understand daggers for mobs, bows for bosses. I guess that's enough

[GoodSyntax]

With Daggers:
damage = 370.9
DPS = 667.6

With Bow:
damage = 435.1
DPS = 435.1

That's what you'd expect? I have to be honest, I still don't really get the difference between damage and DPS, but I do understand daggers for mobs, bows for bosses. I guess that's enough

This is a good example actually.

The bow attacks once every second. The daggers attack once every 0.55 seconds.

With the bow you get a higher damage stat, but auto attacks are slower. Skill attacks operate on their own cooldown, but all skills are based on your DMG stat.

The daggers attack roughly twice per second, so if you are doing mostly auto attacks, you can push out more damage in the same time as you can with a bow. The flip-side is that your skill damage will be slightly lower, which is why daggers are more popular on normal maps, because you are not so reliant on skill damage. Bows are still the recommended weapon for elite maps though, because elite mobs still take a while to kill (they are almost equivalent to normal bosses in some cases).

Basically, any time that you get into situations where one or two hits will kill a mob, use your daggers (because they are faster), but if you encounter something that takes a lot of hits to kill, then use your bow, because most of the damage you inflict will be skill based damage (aimed/nox/pierce/traps/etc) which is based on DMG, not DPS.

[Serancha]

Also remember that daggers hit multiple mobs, whereas bows are single target.


The only thing I charge is nox when I am circling a large group of mobs. The aoe upgrade is a charged effect, and is very efficient in a dps-only elite run. Otherwise, veil requires charging, but everything else is generally tap tap tap.

With daggers especially, charging is never recommended unless you need to stun something, and even then it's usually a waste of effort. The whole benefit of daggers is the fast multi-hit autoattack. So (just an example) aim, nox, tap tap, aim, nox, pierce, tap tap, charge veil aim tap tap.....

[GoodSyntax]

Also remember that daggers hit multiple mobs, whereas bows are single target.

Yes!

Also, charged daggers typically can stun (or kill) up to three mobs at a time. This is particularly useful in elite maps when you are making a run to the boss. It gives you just enough time to get ahead of mobs and avoid taking any damage. What I usually do is fight with a bow, use a tanking + dagger loadout for the run, charging daggers and unloading on mob clusters along the way to slow them down, and finally swap back to my DMG set when I reach the boss.

In the end, it's best to have both a bow and a set of daggers as they are both useful.

[Serancha]

I'm going to start calling you fast-fingers-kali..

[Qamr]

1st, thanks for that thread and all that Pro information.
2nd, what is that
_____________________
The poison DoT skill
• 4/5 Noxious Bolt
-Don't upgrade the Serated arrow head its glitched.
________________________________________________

I can't understand that Part, if you explain it that will be so generous.

[GoodSyntax]

1st, thanks for that thread and all that Pro information.
2nd, what is that
_____________________
The poison DoT skill
• 4/5 Noxious Bolt
-Don't upgrade the Serated arrow head its glitched.
________________________________________________

I can't understand that Part, if you explain it that will be so generous.

The Serrated Arrow upgrade (+15% Impact Damage) actually reduces damage instead of increasing it! That's why the recommendation is to skip that specific upgrade.

[Qamr]

Wow, i didn't know that.
time to use spec scroll then.

so what you recommend kali for that point
SP couging rush or durable

[GoodSyntax]

For my build, I use the following (I'm pure PvE, I don't engage in PvP anymore):

Skills:
Shadow Pierce (Unlock only, no upgrades)
Noxious Bolt 4/5 (All upgrades except Serrated Arrowhead)
Aimed Shot 5/5 (All upgrades)
Entangling Trap 3/5 (Add Adept Construction and Net Retraction [1, 4])

Passives:
Durable (Armor): 5/5
Critical Shot: 5/5
Agility (Dex): 5/5
Knowledge (Int): 5/5
Quickness (Speed): 2/5
Might (Str): 5/5

There are a few options here. Some players prefer Shadow Veil, some like Razor Wire and some like Traps.

ALTERNATIVE BUILDS:
Shadow Veil
If you typically run pure (as in no elixirs), spec Shadow Veil (all upgrades except explode, so you'll need to take a point away from speed).
The buffs to armor and damage are some of the best buffs in the game. But, with the buff/debuff mechanics, you lose the value of Shadow Veil if you use elixirs or run with pets that give you a % DMG boost. Look around the forums and check out the discoveries on buff/debuff stacking and you'll see what I mean about that.

This is the best build for pure runs and pure leaderboard times.

Traps
(This is the build I use)

If you are looking to maximize damage or want faster runs, and you don't mind spending plat/ankhs on revives or using elixirs, go with the Trap build. This build helps with crowd control and gives you a viable fourth attack option that actually provides damage. Unfortunately, Shadow Storm Shot is so weak and the cooldown is so long that it is probably the worst skill in the entire game. Traps are the best 4th offensive skill at your disposal, so this is why I use it. Be cautious about the upgrades though, I have found that the Bleed upgrade aggros all mobs in the trap, so given my preference of fighting in the middle of the mob cluster, I don't like this particular upgrade.

Another nice benefit of Traps is the Net Retraction (AKA "pull"). This pull is a great crowd control skill and really makes the two sorcerer, two rogue party viable and devastatingly fast in elite maps.

Razor
The Razor build seems to be in disarray right now because of the bugs with the Spinning Freedom upgrade conflicting with the Increased Duration upgrade. Right now, if you add the Increased Duration (to increase your razor to 8 seconds), you lose the benefits of Spinning Freedom. If you choose to go with a Razor build, you need to decide which is more important, immunity to stun/snare/root or an 8 second duration. Whichever build you go with, I recommend the Whirling Razors upgrade (+20% dodge).

If you are mainly PvE, avoid the Bleeding Cuts upgrade, as that attracts a ton of aggro and has caused many, many deaths for me.