View Poll Results: Should mage Freeze skill be given back in pvp?

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  Click here to go to the first Dev post in this thread.   Thread: If Freeze is allowed in pvp now..Give Sorcerers their Freeze skill back in PVP

  1. #221
    Senior Member Froxanthar's Avatar
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    I have to agree with Bless.

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    Senior Member Linkincena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bless View Post
    Devs have been discussing removing freeze in pvp. Don't lose hope.
    If freeze is going to be completely removed that's too an Ok solution . ..
    But wait yet.. Devs haven't replied . ..
    So don't lose hope

  3. #223
    Forum Adept Higuani's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bless View Post
    To the devs and the mage population:

    Just remove freeze from pvp. Period.

    Mages should not get freeze back. If thats the case, rogues are clearly screwed becuase unlike mages, we are vulnerable to 2 hits and 3 hits the entire duration of a 1v1/clash, as we do not have a shield skill. Imagine us frozen without any shield or buffs!

    Mages will be fine in clashes with thier two new shield buffs without the freeze in pvp, the problem here is that every mage wants to outlive the tank or rogues in clash. No. Rogues and mages are not tanky, you are bound to get killed, so don't expect a buff that will make you everlasting. Look at rogues, we die in the first few seconds of the clash a lot, whereas mages have the 2 second immunity that can help.

    My second point, I believe pvp isn't made for 1v1s and NO BUFFS OR NERFS should be made on the basis of 1v1s, however, I can easily say that in a 1v1 against a rogue, a mage can chill in thier 2 seconds invulnrability and spam skills - strike 2k crits with the potential 3 attack skills. With or without razor, its hard not to die. Not to mention its duration is bugged, so it doesn't even last half the match and we are stunned as soon as it wears out.

    Just giving a rogue perspective, because the way things are headed with these mage buffs, rogues are screwed. They already got buffed enough, stop crying. Not all mages can kill tanks in 1v1s and that does not mean they were underpowered (what? You want to kill every class in pvp naturally?). The pvp here was intended for teamplay. If you cannot kill other mages or rogues, refer to the earlier point or maybe its time for you to get new gear or skill . If you want tips ask Beocatarii, he can kill rogues finely in 1v1s.
    Lol if breeze can freeze, mages can be able to freeze to. End of story. I'm sick to see EVERY skill of a mage gettin converted into a PET!!!
    Why every rogue is so scared that freeze would come back? You rogues cleary dominate in pvp. Now they even made breeze to freeze your target that you can kill everyone in 1 combo. Is that fair?
    I would have a chance kill some players with freeze, I quited endgame pvp because i can't follow in gear, I'm half myth/legendary, everyone who see me in pvp go Always after me because i'm the most 'EASY' target 'food'.
    With freeze on ice i would have a chance of winning or running away (if not freezed by breeze)

    Thats from a mage view my kdr is so negative.. I'm so scared to log into my 41 mage everyone who see my kdr starts whine about it. There is noway i can get my kdr positive with rogues usin breeze. So i rather stay at twink
    I would LOVE to comeback at endgame. The time i was Purple thunder was the best time ive ever had. Then new gears came at a crazy rate and i can't follow (gold wise) Thats where i left 41.

    mvg Little blue smurf Higuani
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  5. #224
    Senior Member Linkincena's Avatar
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    I would like to recall Carapace's reply here...
    Pl suggest some changes be made to breeze to keep its worth alive and make it more balanced...

    Quote Originally Posted by Carapace View Post
    Things like this is exactly why it's more of an open discussion about proposed changes and what is best for everyone. Given the nature of Breeze's overpowered ability do you have specific feedback on what would make this pet feel more balanced and also worth your money? It sounds like the idea of an isolated immunity to his own ability would be a good compromise.
    Quote Originally Posted by Carapace View Post
    The debate continues on this one, but here are some ideas on how to address this issue from my standpoint (Next year, due to the holidays).

    Before we go any further, please note that...
    These ideas are all subject to change, and are not promises!

    Given the nature of Freezing in PvP being a notable point of discussion, previously removed and now re-introduced through this pet, I'm openly discussing this with the hopes of reaching a compromise that the community agrees with us upon. This is a large list to digest, and not all of them might necessarily happen if it were to be applied so take it with a grain of salt. At the moment I feel this combination yields a nice compromise, the goal of which is to take some of the sting off players who purchased Breeze for this intent, and accommodate where necessary to balance out the extremes. With this in mind, here are some potential ideas.

    - Breeze's Passive Attacks can still freeze players in PvP, but will have their own isolated immunity of about 10 seconds (normal stun immunity is 7.5 seconds). This would mean that you could come out of a freeze and then be stunned immediately after by a stun effect. This seems noteworthy enough to mention. It's also possible to tie them together in that you either get the 10 second immunity from a freeze, or 7.5 seconds from a stun. This also sounds a bit silly, but freeze sounds like a larger problem given the amount of time a freeze can last.

    - Mages Frostbolt would be receive the same effect as Breeze's passive ability, including the 10 second immunity, and they would be inclusive of each other. This means If you for example froze a player with frost bolt, Breeze could not freeze them before that 10 seconds was up.

    - Maximum freeze time reduced (amount would be determined at a later time, but I'm thinking 2 - 2.5 seconds)

    - During the freeze, about every .5 seconds there will be a X% chance for the trapped player to break free. This would likely be around 25% or 33%, but could go as high as 50% depending on the maximum length of the freeze.

    - Breeze's Activated Ability will remain on the generic Stun Immunity as it's tied to a cool down

    Thanks for working with me on this guys, let's hear some thoughts.

    - Carapace
    Last edited by Linkincena; 12-22-2014 at 10:15 AM.

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    - During the freeze, about every .5 seconds there will be a X% chance for the trapped player to break free. This would likely be around 25% or 33%, but could go as high as 50% depending on the maximum length of the freeze.
    These are quite high percantages to break free. It could make freeze useless after update again (50% chance every 0,5 sec practicaly means that no player will stuned for entire duration). It seems appropriate that player which break free from freeze has lowered imunity with same percentage.

    For example, if percentage to break free is 25%, then for the rest of the stun immunity period of 7.5 sec this player has 25% chance to get freezed again (of course calculated every 0.5 seconds for the suposed duration of the freeze effect).
    We reached the bottom of the crises but don't worry - we are still digging.

  8. #226
    Senior Member Linkincena's Avatar
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    Correct me if im wrong in here...

    From the intent of introduction of Breeze's ability... I think it connects to Remiem's thread in Sorcerers Section on "When is Mage Buff Coming"?..

    Through Breeze's ability i think we can see the picture connecting to the Statement here "What Happens if Mages get their Freeze ability back"

    So Breeze's ability, as i may see, is giving a future picture on a part of incoming Mage buff...
    Last edited by Linkincena; 12-22-2014 at 11:02 AM.

  9. #227
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    For me, freeze is a good alternative buff for mage's squishiness(it's like wet bathroom tissue. Honestly want more hp or armor. )
    Having its own 10sec immune out of stun immune, about 30%chance of 2 sec freeze with 50% chance of break sounds reasonable because frostbolt cd is pretty short and it's aoe attack.

    Only thing I don't like about this is that pvp has too much stun and panic already. Too much stun makes game bored. (And other bugs that sts might bring up..)
    Except that cara has good concept of freeze I think.

    Let's not cry that we can't kill this class as before. They aren't supposed to kill other class naturally(well, rogue were), but if the freeze immune works properly, it's not gonna be that bad.

    Or just more armor and hp are fine for me too. Xp
    And keep breeze freeze in its own 10sec immune to keep its value. This freeze should not stack.
    Last edited by Excuses; 12-22-2014 at 11:24 AM.
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  10. #228
    Senior Member Dex Scene's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hail View Post
    So when/"if" this pet becomes useless, what is the point of farming it? Surely the price will drop so drastically the pet will be useless to farm and useless to use. If people are complaining too much about it why not just follow the expressions "If you cannot beat them. Join them" and get this little blue lizard for yourself. People who may not own this pet are the ones complaining that its too op. If it gets a nerf what about the people that spent 2 to +3m to use this pet effectively. I have bought one and I know I wont be a happy camper Just remember every decision made will make someone upset. I think it would be wise to keep Breeze as it is to.. 1) Keep the price up so endgamers have something worthy to make money off. 2)People who have already bought and opened this pet will get what they deserve - a good pet. 3)Give anyone else who has not bought it the chance to see from our perspective on the pet.
    Oh and... Bring back mages ability to freeze
    Freeze never works in pvp. If a pet breaks the rule, people will complain!!
    People who bought it for 2-3m knows it aswel.

  11.   Click here to go to the next Dev post in this thread.   #229
    Moderator Remiem's Avatar
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    We will be re-analyzing Breeze once we get back from the Holidays (January 5th.) I can not speak just yet about what exactly those changes will be, but we've got our eye on it.
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  12. #230
    Senior Member notfaded1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Remiem View Post
    We will be re-analyzing Breeze once we get back from the Holidays (January 5th.) I can not speak just yet about what exactly those changes will be, but we've got our eye on it.
    Wow pvp players world wide rejoice... minus the few with only breeze and legendaries who were all of sudden killing ringed players with S&S o.O

    I lol@pvp but I have to say I can't imagine players with breeze really thought that was how a legendary pet was supposed to work... when all of us saw or heard that was what was happening we knew it had to be a mistake.
    Last edited by notfaded1; 12-22-2014 at 02:19 PM.
    rogue ~ retired GM Enigmatic

  13. #231
    Luminary Poster Bless's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Linkincena View Post
    Correct me if im wrong in here...

    From the intent of introduction of Breeze's ability... I think it connects to Remiem's thread in Sorcerers Section on "When is Mage Buff Coming"?..

    Through Breeze's ability i think we can see the picture connecting to the Statement here "What Happens if Mages get their Freeze ability back"

    So Breeze's ability, as i may see, is giving a future picture on a part of incoming Mage buff...
    That's like saying Para gems are prelepsis of a rogue buff.

    It's not really a connection imo.
    Credits to Iady

  14. #232
    Senior Member Linkincena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bless View Post
    That's like saying Para gems are prelepsis of a rogue buff.

    It's not really a connection imo.
    Don't know yet :/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Remiem View Post
    We will be re-analyzing Breeze once we get back from the Holidays (January 5th.) I can not speak just yet about what exactly those changes will be, but we've got our eye on it.
    When u re-analyzing SNS ? Never ?


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  16. #234
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    As in all businesses, once you launch something it is detrimental to recall it. Just like in the car manufacturering business, mass recall due to QA or whatever problem says a lot about the company and organisation. Good car manufacturers rarely have to do that.

    There is definitely some OP issues with breeze and having it ensures almost 100% victory in 1 v1 situations and a high percentage in clashes is seriously wrong. On the other hand, to nerf it to the point of being a sorc / mage pet is also not right given the 120 planar fragments price tag. It's not an easy task to farm for an average player.

    Lastly, even with the recent shield buff (thank you very much STG) our mages still face significant issues in balance. No doubt the fully geared mage can hold its ground in pvp, but the basic issue of a legendary warrior / rogue still having an almost certain victory over a similar legendary mage still persist. I care for the mage community in general so that is why even after the buffs at the top end of mage has happened I want to remind you that there are still flaws fundamental to the class itself. I agree that the mage skill nerf on crowd control in pvp is the reason this class is so underpowered.

  17. #235
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    @Bless

    Like all situations there are always
    counters, just experiment and think harder. So what if freeze was returned (look at the word here it means to restore and not bluntly given)? Mages were meant to be the CC class. So use ironhide pet / misty pet to remove stun. Walk the talk if you say pvp is not a 1 v1 game. Have someone sacrifice and use such a pet for the benefit of the rest. Sure with misty and ironhide you are not going to get a lot of kills but that's a team player no?

    Walk the talk and think very very carefully before you make a suggestion and claim something like pvp is not about 1 v 1. Because that scenario happens a lot in pvp. Maybe because I always join tdm against groups that stack at the start, I dunno.

  18. #236
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    The vote back on... I hope all Sorcs vote for Mage Freeze in pvp
    [Newcomx, Newcomy, & Newcomz]

  19. #237
    Luminary Poster Bless's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leonut View Post
    @Bless

    Like all situations there are always
    counters, just experiment and think harder. So what if freeze was returned (look at the word here it means to restore and not bluntly given)? Mages were meant to be the CC class. So use ironhide pet / misty pet to remove stun. Walk the talk if you say pvp is not a 1 v1 game. Have someone sacrifice and use such a pet for the benefit of the rest. Sure with misty and ironhide you are not going to get a lot of kills but that's a team player no?

    Walk the talk and think very very carefully before you make a suggestion and claim something like pvp is not about 1 v 1. Because that scenario happens a lot in pvp. Maybe because I always join tdm against groups that stack at the start, I dunno.
    Why should mages have a freeze ability? So that rogues and tanks would avoid it with razor/jug/mist? So that mages would cry afterwards to give them a legit buff?

    Like I said before: Just remove freeze from pvp overall. Its ironic how y'all think backwards, you want to bring more luck and fluke instead of skill into the game, yet want to 'fix' or 'balance' pvp at the same time...

    You wanna walk the talk? Then give feedback on new skills or group combos instead of supporting another OP luck factor.
    Last edited by Bless; 12-22-2014 at 07:57 PM.
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    I'd rather have no freezing in PvP than having mages get freeze. Simply because this would be way too OP and PvP was doing fine till Breeze showed up. Rogues with Breeze are literally unstoppable in a 1v1 scenario (and there's no running from it, 1v1s are a major part of PvP) as the 7 seconds freeze is enough to down literally ANYTHING. IMO, this is unfair.

    On another tangent, mages should get an armor boost. Rogues have ~500 armor more so they do not have such a hard time in PvP. Increasing base armor stats by say 100-200 will do wonders. Rogues shouldn't be able to have higher damage AND armor than mages. (Not talking about damage stat, output damage - ever seen a mage score a 4k crit on one attack?) Let's ignore shield for a second because it 100% will not last the full time in clashes unless you're like versus a team in commons, and think about it a bit. Mages should have a comparable armor boost to make us less squishy, and will make shield less of a norm vs, say, warriors.

    Just my $.02, let's wait for STS's decision.

  21. #239
    Senior Member debitmandiri's Avatar
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    if stun and freeze immunity are different, then a toon without impairing immunity are dead already ( dont expect razor and jugg it has long cd !) Fire-Freeze-Panic pet + elon proc etc etc .. u cant move, a warrior with 25% stun chance and a samael still can easily stunlock this day, imagine a mage with 100% stun chance + FREEZE, and please dont talk about mage's squishyness, rogue will die very first in a clash if their tank cant heal, believe me this is true

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    Quote Originally Posted by debitmandiri View Post
    if stun and freeze immunity are different, then a toon without impairing immunity are dead already ( dont expect razor and jugg it has long cd !) Fire-Freeze-Panic pet + elon proc etc etc .. u cant move, a warrior with 25% stun chance and a samael still can easily stunlock this day, imagine a mage with 100% stun chance + FREEZE, and please dont talk about mage's squishyness, rogue will die very first in a clash if their tank cant heal, believe me this is true
    Mages faster, if mage no heal and get an crit of 3-4k without shield mages wil be dead, mage dies fast in pvp then rouges do...


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