Rogue Stats - I am so lost

[Speetz13]

Whoa someone insulting my intelligence? Lol. I'm enjoying this as the more discussion we have the better; as someone who min/max's on any MMO I play, I hate how little raw numbers are provided by STS and always have. I wanna make sure every stat point is being used to it's full potential, it's a big part of the fun of these games for me.

I am still wondering how big of an influence INT plays in our damage, as it almost seems to have a diminishing returns type of effect; big bonuses at first, but as the INT score goes above 40 or 50 or so it gets to be way less. Only reason I thought this is because of a too a lvl below me with lower DEX but higher int that had a higher dps than myself and I know the daggers he was using couldn't have been higher than my own in raw damage. Obviously there are other legitimate reasons but it made me go "hmm..."

I am glad I sparked this much convo in the first place; as rogues most of use are damage junkies to begin with, so my now min/max our hearts out?


Playing PL AL and more from STS since 2009!

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[Speetz13]

Ps: I forgot how to change my signature to have it make since... Again. I started playing PL back in 09. Obviously not AL.


Playing PL AL and more from STS since 2009!

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[GinjaNinja]

Whoa someone insulting my intelligence? Lol. I'm enjoying this as the more discussion we have the better; as someone who min/max's on any MMO I play, I hate how little raw numbers are provided by STS and always have. I wanna make sure every stat point is being used to it's full potential, it's a big part of the fun of these games for me.

I am still wondering how big of an influence INT plays in our damage, as it almost seems to have a diminishing returns type of effect; big bonuses at first, but as the INT score goes above 40 or 50 or so it gets to be way less. Only reason I thought this is because of a too a lvl below me with lower DEX but higher int that had a higher dps than myself and I know the daggers he was using couldn't have been higher than my own in raw damage. Obviously there are other legitimate reasons but it made me go "hmm..."

I am glad I sparked this much convo in the first place; as rogues most of use are damage junkies to begin with, so my now min/max our hearts out?


Playing PL AL and more from STS since 2009!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I dont think that the guy had higher dmg than you because of more stat points put into int. All dex. really does give you the most dmg possible. Maybe his daggers/other gear were gemmed in a way that increased his stats above yours, its hard to say.

[Speetz13]

Oh I doubt it too but it had to play a decent role in damage for it to be higher than mine with what I had on. I am losing the specifics but maybe it wasn't higher but vey close to the same I don't remember but my boiled down point was just that it made me wonder how much int did do for our damage.

My biggest issue now is that I can't solo anything in nordr at level 27. My dps is 422 I can't remember but DEX is close to 400 and it takes a lot of pots to get through map solo. There seems to be some design around there being a tank role in AL and most warriors don't realize this, which adds to my issue. Any advice there would be welcomed..

[Arkh]

I dont think that the guy had higher dmg than you because of more stat points put into int. All dex. really does give you the most dmg possible. Maybe his daggers/other gear were gemmed in a way that increased his stats above yours, its hard to say.

Ginjaninja is right. As i said i replaced 40 dex buy 40 intel with exactly same build & other stats to test. result : i lose 31.5 DPS & 25.5 damages.

[Madnex]

Well, as much as I'm enjoying the little show going on here, if anyone paid a little attention in game, you'd see that damage bonus is a %. You start off with 105%. Of course DEX is designed to give you more damage over INT through the damage calculation since that percentage stacks on and on - even more noticeable at endgame where it reaches 400%+.

[Arkh]

Well, as much as I'm enjoying the little show going on here, if anyone paid a little attention in game, you'd see that damage bonus is a %. You start off with 105%. Of course DEX is designed to give you more damage over INT through the damage calculation since that percentage stacks on and on - even more noticeable at endgame where it reaches 400%+.

That's why i said :

0.195*1.005=0.195975 it's still very inferior of the 0.257 indicated for 1 intel...

U can calculate indicated datas the way u want, it indicate intel more damages than dex & it's false.

Or show me the calculation : how 0.195 basic damage & 0.005 bonus damages bring superior damages than 0.257 basic damages...

[dex dmg]*[1+(dex bonus dmg)]>[int dmg]*[1+(int bonus dmg)]

so

[0.195]*[1+(0.005)]>[0.257]*[1+(0)]
=
0.195975>0.257 is FALSE

[UndeadJudge]

That's why i said :



[dex dmg]*[1+(dex bonus dmg)]>[int dmg]*[1+(int bonus dmg)]

so

[0.195]*[1+(0.005)]>[0.257]*[1+(0)]
=
0.195975>0.257 is FALSE

Reread his post lol..

Or go Respec to 1 int and 1 dex, no pet, see which is higher

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[nevercan]

That's why i said :



[dex dmg]*[1+(dex bonus dmg)]>[int dmg]*[1+(int bonus dmg)]

so

[0.195]*[1+(0.005)]>[0.257]*[1+(0)]
=
0.195975>0.257 is FALSE

????????????????

[Arkh]

Reread his post lol..

Or go Respec to 1 int and 1 dex, no pet, see which is higher

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I replaced 40 dex by 40 intel. Intel is higher on mage. On rogue it's dex

[UndeadJudge]

I replaced 40 dex by 40 intel. Intel is higher on mage. On rogue it's dex

1, not 40... The % compounds on itself..


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[Speetz13]

Ok so we have figured out int for us is only for mana when we can kind a spare the int which only matters in PVP since we have unlimited pots seeing as their dirt cheap.

What about defense? I die stupid quick in Nodr without a group ern though I two hit almost every mob. Any advice stat wise there? Or even tactics? I can kite, sure, but there should be more possibilities than that eh?

[Arkh]

1, not 40... The % compounds on itself..


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to replace 1 or to replace 40 & divide by 40 is equal man. if 1 intel dmg is superior to 1 dex dmg+his bonus dmg, it's same for 40 intel & 40 dex... & the result is this :

If i replace 40 dex by 40 intel, i lose exactly 31.5 DPS & 25.5 damages so 1 dex bring 0,7875 DPS & 0.6375 damages more than 1 intel

Intel bring few more DPS & damages than str. That's why for rogue a potency item is more expensive than his brutality version... But dex bring FAR more DPS & dmg than intel or str... Saying intel bring more damages than dex on a rogue is stupid. Every Rogue up dex to max to maximize DPS & damage...

[Arkh]

????????????????

about the guy who said 1 intel bring 0.257 dmg & dex 0.195 dmg & 0.005 bonus dmg

if dex dmg is 0.195, real dex bonus dmg is superior of (0.257/0.195)-1=0.3179

not 0.005.

or if the bonus is 0.005, dex basic dmg is superior of (0.257/(1+0.005))= 0.255

not 0.195.

In every case, dex dmg+bonus dmg bring superior result than intel.

[UndeadJudge]

Ok so we have figured out int for us is only for mana when we can kind a spare the int which only matters in PVP since we have unlimited pots seeing as their dirt cheap.

What about defense? I die stupid quick in Nodr without a group ern though I two hit almost every mob. Any advice stat wise there? Or even tactics? I can kite, sure, but there should be more possibilities than that eh?

Sorry bout the clutter on your thread man. Anyway, you can try to get gear with a good amount of armor and/or str or just play with a warrior. They can hold aggro on mobs so you will hardly take any damage. Kiting I find isn't very efficient in AL, aside from on mobs, just because of the way the game is designed. Somehow, melee mobs are able to hit me even when I'm far from them..




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[Madnex]

What you're trying to hard to prove is already mentioned in the first page; someone asked if a full INT build would have more damage than a full DEX and I responded explaining that's not the case. The exact figures were found quite some while ago too by fluff (might go over them again, later). Point being, arguing over those digits serves no purpose as the conclusion has already been drawn and announced.

INT does give damage and crit, just not as much as DEX.

[Arkh]

What you're trying to hard to prove is already mentioned in the first page; someone asked if a full INT build would have more damage than a full DEX and I responded explaining that's not the case. The exact figures were found quite some while ago too by fluff (might go over them again, later). Point being, arguing over those digits serves no purpose as the conclusion has already been drawn and announced.

INT does give damage and crit, just not as much as DEX.

so it's not 0.257 for int & 0.195 + 0.005 bonus for dex

That's my point.

[Madnex]

so it's not 0.257 for int & 0.195 + 0.005 bonus for dex

That's my point.

You're only looking at one part of the damage equation, the length and complexity of which you do not even fully grasp either. You didn't even bother to eliminate the bonus damage% stack-ability factor, stubbornly making the comparison at L41 where the bonus dmg is reaching ~400%. So the precise statistical figures may very well be correct.

You have no point, just stuck up on elementary math that disproves the simplistic and isolated part of the aforementioned equation that you attempted to tackle. If that's the length of your constructive feedback, you could spare us your meaningless contribution next time as it is only confusing the new players who click on this topic to be informed of the basics, not to calculate decimals they have no real use for, anyway.

[nevercan]

You're only looking at one part of the damage equation, the length and complexity of which you do not even fully grasp either. You didn't even bother to eliminate the bonus damage% stack-ability factor, stubbornly making the comparison at L41 where the bonus dmg is reaching ~400%. So the precise statistical figures may very well be correct.

You have no point, just stuck up on elementary math that disproves the simplistic and isolated part of the aforementioned equation that you attempted to tackle. If that's the length of your constructive feedback, you could spare us your meaningless contribution next time as it is only confusing the new players who click on this topic to be informed of the basics, not to calculate decimals they have no real use for, anyway.

Not only for new players i dont understand anything of what you guys are talking about with your +×÷%-

[Speetz13]

Ok so here is what it comes down to for me. One simple question that kind of sums up the entire thing;

Should I buff my passive skill for damage (1% per skill point) or for INT (+5 INT per skill point) first to maximize damage at the lowest level possible, active skills considered (5 active skills at +5/4 before maximizing passive skills)

In most games with anything close to a similar number structure active skills will take first priority until close to maxed out before passive skills take over, given you aren't totally derp about your class. Thanks, hopefully one final time, and hopefully I won't have to buy a respec at lvl30...!...!!....!!!

:P