Why I'm Liking My Bird Less and Less

[Turkster]

I don't even like to play PvE that much on my bird anymore due to the amount of potions I use. My gear has little to no regen on it, and I'm constantly restocking my pots. At first I didn't mind, but now its starting to wear on me. Then I get on my mage and I use practically no potions because I have over 20 M/S and H/S. Now I'm thinking to myself, why play the bird in PvE at all? I save so much more money playing my mage.

Also, in PvP, if I kill 3-4 people in a row with my bird then I'm completely oom (out of mana); and even if I have full hp from regen or heals, I'm a sitting duck with no mana.
With my mage this wouldn't be a problem because of his great health AND mana regen.
From my experience, mages can kill just as well as birds (mages seem much harder to kill now than pre 1.7 but maybe that's just me), but they also have muuch more longevity through regen.

Haven't played my bear in a while so I'm not sure how they play into all
this.

Thoughts? Comments?

[Zeus]

I don't even like to play PvE that much on my bird anymore due to the amount of potions I use. My gear has little to no regen on it, and I'm constantly restocking my pots. At first I didn't mind, but now its starting to wear on me. Then I get on my mage and I use practically no potions because I have over 20 M/S and H/S. Now I'm thinking to myself, why play the bird in PvE at all? I save so much more money playing my mage.

Also, in PvP, if I kill 3-4 people in a row with my bird then I'm completely oom (out of mana); and even if I have full hp from regen or heals, I'm a sitting duck with no mana.
With my mage this wouldn't be a problem because of his great health AND mana regen.
From my experience, mages can kill just as well as birds (mages seem much harder to kill now than pre 1.7 but maybe that's just me), but they also have muuch more longevity through regen.

Haven't played my bear in a while so I'm not sure how they play into all
this.

Thoughts? Comments?

Bears play great, very little pot consumption because most of their skills are stuns, so you are basically just tanking the boss. Not to mention its FUN to play a bear because you get the feeling that you are keeping your entire team alive.

[Echelong]

Yep mana is a problem for birds. But if you are OOM and you have killed 3 or 4 players then you are doing really good. As for mages been harder now? they haven't received any buff only bears with their combo and a few other things.

Devs could help this with cutting down the amount of mana it takes to cast skills on pvp.

[Royce]

Do you use meditation? It's pretty significant mana regen. Restore is terrible, but I really don't see how birds should ever be complaining about gear without mana regen.

[Moogerfooger]

If you play your bird PvE with a Sentinel Talon set, especially if you add the right ring, your pot/defense concerns are vastly minimized. That is why you see a lot of birds in the Sewers with Sentinel Talons/Wings. Still decent DPS, great armor, good regen. Even a mix of the cheaper Henchman's set and Sentinel gear provides for solid defense and some regen and excellent damage if you prefer a bow.

EDIT: As Royce mentioned, Meditation should be maxed to lvl 6 if it is not.

[Kujen]

Yeah I never put a single point in meditation but I'm definitely considering it now. I'm constantly spamming health and mana pots in the sewers and I hate that. My bird feels squishier than my int mage..I'll often switch to talon/shield but I wish I could use my bow more...there's never a taunting bear when you need one.

[Lesrider]

I think meditation needs to do more. I use it and also run out of mana fast.

[Tengotengo]

There's a guide that says to not waste time on med/restore, to which I say B.S. Max meditate and have a few in restore at least. I've got the push attack at 1, and I'm thinking if I respec I'll drop the other attack that isn't the range one to 2 or 3.

For the record, I'm really really wanting to respec to a dual-spec STR bird so I can wear some of that ridiculous h/regen gear, and load out to cyber (or sentinel when I finally complete it) at bosses. A lot of it is cheap in the CS too.

[Kindread]

Is Meditation really worth it? I can't imagine dropping one of my other skills to get Meditation. Granted I haven't tried any PvP yet. I've been loving the PvE content that PvPs gotten placed on the backburner. But seeing as all the new sewers gear lacks mama regen, I might have to respec and try out maxed meditation.

[Turkster]

No I don't use meditation or restore because I like to maximize my offensive skills for PvP. Maybe if they had a dual spec system I'd use med and restore in PvE...but they don't and I'm not gonna spend plat to switch between PvE and PvP skill setups.

And as for wearing lvl 50 gear, that waters down your dps soo much. I don't like seeing lvl 55 birds in lvl 50 gear because they're dps is a good ~60 or more points below mine. That's significant.

[Turkster]

Do you use meditation? It's pretty significant mana regen. Restore is terrible, but I really don't see how birds should ever be complaining about gear without mana regen.

Like I said in the post above, meditation is not a skill you waste
points on for PvP

[Physiologic]

Ok. I already did all the math before but I never published it, so here it is. Meditation is useless.

Meditation (unlocked at lv 10)
Explanation: Increases your inherent mana regeneration rate for 3 seconds.

Lv 1: 10 mana, 45.5 sec. cool-down, self-target
3 sec. buff, +12 mana regen rate
Lv 2: 10 mana, 45.5 sec. cool-down, self-target
3 sec. buff, +16 mana regen rate
Lv 3: 10 mana, 45.5 sec. cool-down, self-target
3 sec. buff, +20 mana regen rate
Lv 4: 10 mana, 45.5 sec. cool-down, self-target
3 sec. buff, +24 mana regen rate
Lv 5: 10 mana, 45.5 sec. cool-down, self-target
3 sec. buff, +28 mana regen rate
Lv 6: 10 mana, 45.5 sec. cool-down, self-target
3 sec. buff, +32 mana regen rate

I never got level 6 meditation so I'm guessing that's the level 6 stats. If it's wrong I'll be more than happy to redo the math.

Ok, so in PvE lv 53-56 runs at some sewer map takes ~5 minutes to complete. If you have max meditation (a total of 96 mana restored in 3 seconds with 45.5 second cool-down) you are able to cast it 6.59 times (6 times rounded down because you can't case it 6.59 times exactly). 6 casts of 96 mana restoration is 576 mana restored in an average 5 minute run in the sewers.

Ellie the Enchantress sells the cheapest potions in bulk, 100 potions for 1500 gold; that's 1 potion for 15 gold. 1 mana potion heals roughly 30% of my archer's mana (500 mana max) which is 150 mana. 576 mana restored from 1 5 minute sewer run is 3.84 potions saved. 3.84 potions saved x 15 gold is 57.6 gold saved per run using max meditation.

Again, you save 57.6 gold per run when you use the most amount of maxed level Meditation you can possible use in a 5-minute sewer run. If you ran sewers for, let's say, 500 times you save a measly 28,800 gold.

Are you seriously going to max meditation - again, a USELESS skill in PvE - for 57.6 gold per run? Or are you going to put those points into something more useful, let's say, something that'll help your entire party out via damage/debuffs?

edit: Oh and don't get me started on how much gold you "save" if you were to waste points on Restore. It's not as bad as Meditation, but it's still pretty bad.

[Moogerfooger]

Lol....I knew you would have a through analysis. It has nothing to do with gold, just find it more useful than putting points into thorn wall or restore, for PvE.

I have all offensive skills except Avian Scream (blah) and blinding shot (lvl 5) maxed...yet still have meditation at 6 along with dodge, thorn root, focus, evasion. 0 in thorn wall (I found it useless) and restore (likewise, as I rarely PvP).

[Physiologic]

Thorn Wall deals roughly 250-300 damage per enemy with good equips (the description is completely wrong, it doesn't do "16 target damage per second") AND stops enemies in their tracks. It's the best AoE (aside from Cruel Shot combo) that a bird has, plus with an enchantress it does double her lightning attack w/ Nature Strike combo (plus debuffs, which I forgot exactly).

[StompArtist]

Lol....I knew you would have a through analysis. It has nothing to do with gold, just find it more useful than putting points into thorn wall or restore, for PvE.

I have all offensive skills except Avian Scream (blah) and blinding shot (lvl 5) maxed...yet still have meditation at 6 along with dodge, thorn root, focus, evasion. 0 in thorn wall (I found it useless) and restore (likewise, as I rarely PvP).

Thorn wall is one of the better skills. You sure you are not referring to thorn root?

[Moogerfooger]

Thorn Wall deals roughly 250-300 damage per enemy with good equips (the description is completely wrong, it doesn't do "16 target damage per second") AND stops enemies in their tracks. It's the best AoE (aside from Cruel Shot combo) that a bird has, plus with an enchantress it does double her lightning attack w/ Nature Strike combo (plus debuffs, which I forgot exactly).

I thought the Nature Strike was with Thorn Root, not wall (oops, shoulda paid more attention)....but I didn't know that in regards to the 'misleading' description.

Looks like time for a skills respec

May a rabid beserker squirrel visit your underwear. While you are wearing them.

[Moogerfooger]

Thorn wall is one of the better skills. You sure you are not referring to thorn root?

Well thorn root is a must as well, to pull off the archer combo. Guess I need both and have been blissfully ignorant of an added attack I could be using.

[Turkster]

WOW. its sad that some birds are such noobs. But I guess you'll find that in any game you play.

[StompArtist]

WOW. its sad that some birds are such noobs. But I guess you'll find that in any game you play.

Ok... Well why not explain all there is to know about birds?

[Moogerfooger]

WOW. its sad that some birds are such noobs. But I guess you'll find that in any game you play.

Wow, it's sad that trolls are on the forum. I come here to learn what I could be missing and have learned a ton as I was a casual player for a long time, now run along and go back to your cave.

By the way, the Sentinel 50 sets have excellent crit that makes up for the lack of DPS compared to the 55 gear. Not to mention the Sentinel Talon/Wing set does 250+ DPS, has 120 + armor with the right ring, and excellent regen as a bonus. One could say that the added crit from some of the Sentinel gear makes up for the lower DPS. Just another way to look at it.