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    Forum Adept raw's Avatar
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    Default Retiring from PvP today

    Hi Arcane Legends players,

    The reason I'm posting this is not merely because I am quitting PvP, but because I want to express why I am doing so.

    Just some background...

    I'm a S1 player (shout out Rage of Mages!) and started pvp on my twink Merrrrrrrked (now known as raw) during S2, and haven't stopped since. But what I've seen as a really fun way to pass the time, has turned into something completely different. The lack of regulation in pvp (trash talking with no consequence) and lack of attention from STG (same CTF map for two years, breeze not being fixed for weeks, etc.) has allowed pvp to go from being that place people can go for fun, to a place where only the best geared players stand a chance, Ultimately those who aren't in a strong guild are inevitably going to get ganged/spawned/trashed/booted from rooms.

    I love PvPing for the strategy, the teamwork, the kills, but what I hate is the trashing/unfair fights. PvP has a way of changing people, including myself, and making us say things that we would never say face to face. I'm at the point now where me going into a PvP match isn't for fun, it's just because other players call me, challenge me, or I need to get kills for the LB. Usually, I end up either getting annoyed at all the things people are saying towards me, or I end up saying things back to them that I shouldn't.

    I hope one day that PvP is restored to its glory days where skill > gear.
    I also hope that STG pays an ounce of attention to kill farmers that run rampant across the leaderboard (they deleted the kill farming sticky thread)
    I also really hope that players realize that this is a GAME, not World War 2.

    I apologize to anyone that I've negatively impacted, and wish you all the best of luck in your PvP endeavors!
    If you want me come find me in PvE!


    Now my questions to anyone reading are...

    - Do you PvP, and if so have you experienced what I am talking about and how has that impacted your Arcane Legends experience?
    - How can we as a community fix the negativity (trashing, unfair fighting, guild drama, etc) that exists in PvP, while still keeping it competitive and fun for as many players as possible?
    - What would you like see from STG do to fix PvP? (keeping in mind that unless it makes money they will probably not do it- ie. not be building a new map, or inventing a new pvp system)
    Last edited by raw; 12-30-2014 at 12:13 AM.

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    Best wishes Buddy!

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    1. Yes, I PvP. It doesn't bother me. If things get out of hand, that's what the ignore button exists for. Developers have given us wonderful tools to deal with players we dislike. I would rather they not waste man hours on cleaning up PvP when as players we have the option to do this ourselves.

    2. Ignore listing anyone you may find problematic upon entering a PvP room and then removing them after the PvP session is done.

    3. I'd prefer them to fix the many broken mechanics of PvP first such as breeze, razor shield, nox, sorcerers, etc. The trivial matters can be put on the side burner.
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    Quitting something you like for such reasons don't make sense to me. At some point we all got ganged, spawned even trash talked to but we literally get over it and move forward. Chill, relax and take it easy.

    Remember Only 5 players in each team can enter the PVP room regardless which guild is stronger. So if you love what you do as claimed, you can still figure out the right skills and strategy to pull off a win. I believe you have allot of pro players on your side that actually have great skills.

    Anyways best of luck to whatever you decide
    Last edited by H£ll; 12-30-2014 at 07:24 AM.

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    best of luck
    yes i have experienced the things u listed above. when i first entered pvp i used to gang. now i dont coz it makes me feel bad. sometimes i lose control n i gang but then i again let them kill me the times i ganged.

    pve for planar tomb/event pt me ign-Litheus
    help will be said thanks coz i have only 7 planar fragments till n no one runs with me

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    Quote Originally Posted by H£ll View Post
    Quitting something you like for such reasons don't make sense to me. At some point we all got ganged, spawned even trash talked to but we literally get over it and move forward. Chill, relax and take it easy.

    Remember Only 5 players in each team can enter the PVP room regardless which guild is stronger. So if you love what you do as claimed, you can still figure out the right skills and strategy to pull off a win. I believe you have allot of pro players on your side that actually have great skills.

    Anyways best of luck to whatever you decide
    Yeah... Just like Hell with 300m set n pet want to vs my tank ( 18m ) set n pet...
    Hell said stop running n fight. I replied... I will stop when I have ur set n sns... New map. Lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by raw View Post
    Hi Arcane Legends players,

    The reason I'm posting this is not merely because I am quitting PvP, but because I want to express why I am doing so.

    Just some background...

    I'm a S1 player (shout out Rage of Mages!) and started pvp on my twink Merrrrrrrked (now known as raw) during S2, and haven't stopped since. But what I've seen as a really fun way to pass the time, has turned into something completely different. The lack of regulation in pvp (trash talking with no consequence) and lack of attention from STG (same CTF map for two years, breeze not being fixed for weeks, etc.) has allowed pvp to go from being that place people can go for fun, to a place where only the best geared players stand a chance, Ultimately those who aren't in a strong guild are inevitably going to get ganged/spawned/trashed/booted from rooms.

    I love PvPing for the strategy, the teamwork, the kills, but what I hate is the trashing/unfair fights. PvP has a way of changing people, including myself, and making us say things that we would never say face to face. I'm at the point now where me going into a PvP match isn't for fun, it's just because other players call me, challenge me, or I need to get kills for the LB. Usually, I end up either getting annoyed at all the things people are saying towards me, or I end up saying things back to them that I shouldn't.

    I hope one day that PvP is restored to its glory days where skill > gear.
    I also hope that STG pays an ounce of attention to kill farmers that run rampant across the leaderboard (they deleted the kill farming sticky thread)
    I also really hope that players realize that this is a GAME, not World War 2.

    I apologize to anyone that I've negatively impacted, and wish you all the best of luck in your PvP endeavors!
    If you want me come find me in PvE!


    Now my questions to anyone reading are...

    - Do you PvP, and if so have you experienced what I am talking about and how has that impacted your Arcane Legends experience?
    - How can we as a community fix the negativity (trashing, unfair fighting, guild drama, etc) that exists in PvP, while still keeping it competitive and fun for as many players as possible?
    - What would you like see from STG do to fix PvP? (keeping in mind that unless it makes money they will probably not do it- ie. not be building a new map, or inventing a new pvp system)
    Raw. Play 23 with me... Alway fair fight gw... Also skills > gears
    End game is for rich noob lol... When they tried here. They are food...

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    Quote Originally Posted by H£ll View Post
    Quitting something you like for such reasons don't make sense to me. At some point we all got ganged, spawned even trash talked to but we literally get over it and move forward. Chill, relax and take it easy.

    Remember Only 5 players in each team can enter the PVP room regardless which guild is stronger. So if you love what you do as claimed, you can still figure out the right skills and strategy to pull off a win. I believe you have allot of pro players on your side that actually have great skills.

    Anyways best of luck to whatever you decide
    I agree that this may seem irrational but it's my choice. As you can see throughout this thread, that players are already trashing this, which just exemplifies the behavior that is rampant throughout PvP in end game players.

    Also just to be clear I'm not quitting because of losing PvP matches. We win some and we lose some. I quit because the lack of respect players have towards eachother, and the lack of attention from STG.

    Find me in PvE.
    Last edited by raw; 12-30-2014 at 09:46 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by raw View Post
    I agree that this may seem irrational but it's my choice. As you can see throughout this thread, that players are already trashing this, which just exemplifies the behavior that is rampant throughout PvP in end game players.

    Also just to be clear I'm not quitting because of losing PvP matches. We win some and we lose some. I quit because the lack of respect players have towards eachother, and the lack of attention from STG.

    Find me in PvE.
    Raw,

    If you want things to change, you yourself have to change as well. I've seen many situations where you are the FIRST to trash talk in a room without anyone saying anything prior in that instance.

    I do not mean to instigate you but all I am saying is if you want to change PvP, you have to be the leading initiative. Otherwise, try the suggestions I've made. If I do them prior to starting a PvP match, they work very very well. If I do not, I can often be the first to trash talk. So, these suggestions are from experience. Try them out!
    Last edited by Zeus; 12-30-2014 at 10:30 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeus View Post
    Raw,

    If you want things to change, you yourself have to change as well. I've seen many situations where you are the FIRST to trash talk in a room without anyone saying anything prior in that instance.

    I do not mean to instigate you but all I am saying is if you want to change PvP, you have to be the leading initiative. Otherwise, try the suggestions I've made. If I do them prior to starting a PvP match, they work very very well.
    Gandhi - "Be the change you want to see"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeus View Post
    Raw,

    If you want things to change, you yourself have to change as well. I've seen many situations where you are the FIRST to trash talk in a room without anyone saying anything prior in that instance.

    I do not mean to instigate you but all I am saying is if you want to change PvP, you have to be the leading initiative. Otherwise, try the suggestions I've made. If I do them prior to starting a PvP match, they work very very well. If I do not, I can often be the first to trash talk. So, these suggestions are from experience. Try them out!
    I'll admit that I've done my fair share of trash talking, and I acknowledged that in my initial post. Being the change that you want to see does not work when you're solo in end game. Guilds dominate PvP, and people simply don't care for anyone willing to make a stand for what they believe is right. I did try this when I left Resilience months ago and went solo. And to be fair lets not exclude you, Zeus, from trashing. We've all done it.

    Being solo helped me see the true colors of large guilds and the detrimental impact they've had on PvP in terms of the average player's experience, which frankly is more important because those are the players who will be the future of AL. The point being, as my post states "The reason I'm posting this is not merely because I am quitting PvP, but because I want to express why I am doing so." there is a much bigger issue than me or you. There is a problem that has been spiraling out of control, and it's only going to get worse unless something is done by Guild Officers, influential players, mods to curb this and restore PvP back to a fun place for all.

    Again, please keep this thread constructive, and don't trash talk here. You're just making yourselves look foolish.
    Last edited by raw; 12-30-2014 at 11:15 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by raw View Post
    I'll admit that I've done my fair share of trash talking, and I acknowledged that in my initial post. Being the change that you want to see does not work when you're solo in end game. Guilds dominate PvP, and people simply don't care for anyone willing to make a stand for what they believe is right. And to be fair lets not exclude you, Zeus, from trashing. We've all done it.

    Being solo helped me see the true colors of large guilds and the detrimental impact they've had on PvP in terms of the average player's experience, which frankly is more important because those are the players who will be the future of AL. The point being, as my post states "The reason I'm posting this is not merely because I am quitting PvP, but because I want to express why I am doing so." there is a much bigger issue than me or you. There is a problem that has been spiraling out of control, and it's only going to get worse unless something is done by Guild Officers, influential players, mods to curb this and restore PvP back to a fun place for all.

    Again, please keep this thread constructive, and don't
    trash talk here. You're just making yourselves look foolish.
    This thread is constructive and I have no intentions to derail it from that. Sure, I've trash talked before too. I'll be the first to admit it. PvP gets to everyone and we all get frustrated at times.

    The only way to fix it is by being the change. Join a major guild, PvP with them and change how they work. I've tried forums method too and really, it just does not work.
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    I cant deal with all the lose of friends anymore.....Im probably quitting soon (entire game)
    Pvp is stupid due to 5v5 breeze .
    Market is completely ruined.
    Meh time to sell everything and just go be an OP twink with 2 para gems and 8 eyes rofl....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeus View Post
    This thread is constructive and I have no intentions to derail it from that. Sure, I've trash talked before too. I'll be the first to admit it. PvP gets to everyone and we all get frustrated at times.

    The only way to fix it is by being the change. Join a major guild, PvP with them and change how they work. I've tried forums method too and really, it just does not work.
    I wasn't directing the trashing in this thread towards you, but rather the numerous posts before you. Anyway I tried this during my 3 months as GM of Decimation (level 26 300+ person pvp guild) and frankly it worked pretty well. We had a guild where all the officers were on the same page, we trained our guild to avoid drama, spot blocking (unless blocked first), and trash talking. We had a great guild going, and the 26 circuit was revamped for a few months in early 2014.

    Anyway, officers are the people that represent and set the example for the rest of the guild, and unfortunately some of the major guilds in AL don't have this. Not to say that all officers are bad, because I'm sure if you're an officer in any guild you're worked your way up the ranks and have proven yourself. What I am implying is that within at least the top pvp guilds there are officers who don't follow their guild's ideals, and set poor examples for the rest of their guild which leads guild members misinterpreting this as okay behavior, which eventually snowballs into a more widespread problem.

    Anyway, you're right that being the change that you want to see works IF you are in a position of influence (usually high up in a guild), however it's just not a direction that people seem to moving towards.
    Last edited by raw; 12-30-2014 at 11:26 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by raw View Post
    I wasn't directing the trashing in this thread towards you, but rather the numerous posts before you. Anyway I tried this during my 3 months as GM of Decimation (level 26 300+ person pvp guild) and frankly it worked pretty well. We had a guild where all the officers were on the same page, we trained our guild to avoid drama, spot blocking (unless blocked first), and trash talking. Officers are the people that represent and set the example for the rest of the guild, and unfortunately some of the major guilds in AL don't have this. Not to say that all officers are bad, because I'm sure if you're an officer in any guild you're worked your way up the ranks and have proven yourself. What I am implying is that within at least the top two pvp guilds there are officers who don't follow their guilds ideals, and set poor examples for the rest of their guilds which leads the misinterpretation for guild members that this behavior is okay which eventually snowballs into a more widespread problem.

    Anyway, you're right that being the change that you want to see works IF you are in a position of influence, however it's just not a direction that people seem to moving towards.
    Yes, I remember when Decimation was around. A lot of good things were said about that guild and I commend you for it. You were a great GM back then! However, I do not think we can change two PvP guilds morals by relying on their officer. You or someone else who's dedicated to minimizing PvP foul play has to obtain position of influence and then become the change.

    Personally, I tried back in the Pride days but now guilds are simply way too large to be worth the effort required.


    Lastly, I truly didn't want to come off as I am innocent of such acts because I am not. I really do not think anyone is for that matter which is why I was open to admit in post #17.
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    I stopped PvP many seasons ago (back when Nordr first came out).

    To be honest, I found that there were several types of PvPers:

    Friendly Pro's
    This group not only enjoyed PvP, but wanted to build friendships, wanted to improve their skills, was willing to fight or team with anybody, was willing to teach and rarely, if ever, talked trash. At the time, this was a large group, and they were loosely connected in that they respected each other and often balanced out teams simply to enjoy a good fight. This was the group that generally kept PvP matches fun and exciting.

    KDR Obsessed
    This group only cared about their KDR. This was the group that usually joined with a pack of Warriors, or always joined the team with more players. You could find this type of player spawn farming, hunting exclusively in packs, killing the winner of 1v1 fights, etc., These players were quick to talk trash when they were winning and were equally quick to call in guildmates/friends to stack the deck if they got killed (didn't matter if they lost in a 1v1 or a clash) or thought they could have lost in a battle. Many of these players turned to kill farming to pad their stats out even more, which ultimately made the PvP leaderboards a joke.

    PvP Noobs
    This group usually came in undergeared, didn't understand how to fight a clash, often ran off on their own (hence were easy pickings), had starter or low end pets, and generally hurt their team instead of helping. Because of their freshness in PvP, these players clearly didn't understand how to fight in a group and generally led to team wipes in clashes. Some of these players kept at it without ever improving, many quit PvP altogether, and a handful joined up with high-powered PvP guilds for protection and typically turned into one of the KDR Obsessed players.

    Casual PvPers
    This group was usually not the most skilled, but enjoyed joining PvP matches for the camaraderie, were usually pleasant, friendly players, and half the time wound up staying in PvP rooms to chat (weird, I know). You would know what you were joining the moment you entered the room and got a bunch of friend requests, private messages and a fully spammed out chat. Matches with this group usually devolved into a 1v1 room and someone free-flagging with the rest standing around and talking about various topics, usually nothing relevant to the game. A pleasant group, but generally not what you wanted in a PvP match.

    Flaggers
    This type of player went for the flags immediately. Rarely spoke, didn't kill anything and was only there for flags. This is the type that would end 1v1 matches prematurely, even though everyone in the room would say wait! While there was nothing inherently wrong with this player, it usually meant that you were clashing 4v5, and that your time in the room was going to be limited by however long it took to deliver all flags. I suspect that this group is what caused the free-flagging phenomenon, since it became apparent that to get onto the leaderboard, you needed to get 10k flags, and since everyone else was doing it, many rooms just turned into free flag rooms.

    Guild Groupies
    This is the group that typically responded to the KDR Obsessed calls for support. This is the player that would join your team and not participate in clashes because they wouldn't kill guildies. Worse, these are also the players that joined, died, and never respawned or respawned and never left the room. Ultimately, these turned into the spot blockers that we all loathe these days.


    Unfortunately, the Friendly Pro's have become a very small population in the game, and with their decline, PvP in this game has devolved into gank rooms. There are still a bunch of very respectable players that PvP, but they are the clear minority and the majority that are left over from the early days seem to have a win at all costs mentality. This behavior is the source of all the "PvP Drama".

    To be honest, I don't think that there is anything that can be done to improve the situation. As long as people are obsessed with kills, KDR, flag count, guild wars, etc., this can never change without fundamental changes to how PvP is structured. Until STS makes a change to the basic mechanics of PvP, and introduces two different rooms, one where players and teams are completely anonymous (ie., no names, you can't choose your team, auto-rebalancing, etc.) and another room where it is invite-only, our current brand of PvP will remain.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GoodSyntax View Post
    I stopped PvP many seasons ago (back when Nordr first came out).

    To be honest, I found that there were several types of PvPers:

    Friendly Pro's
    This group not only enjoyed PvP, but wanted to build friendships, wanted to improve their skills, was willing to fight or team with anybody, was willing to teach and rarely, if ever, talked trash. At the time, this was a large group, and they were loosely connected in that they respected each other and often balanced out teams simply to enjoy a good fight. This was the group that generally kept PvP matches fun and exciting.

    KDR Obsessed
    This group only cared about their KDR. This was the group that usually joined with a pack of Warriors, or always joined the team with more players. You could find this type of player spawn farming, hunting exclusively in packs, killing the winner of 1v1 fights, etc., These players were quick to talk trash when they were winning and were equally quick to call in guildmates/friends to stack the deck if they got killed (didn't matter if they lost in a 1v1 or a clash) or thought they could have lost in a battle. Many of these players turned to kill farming to pad their stats out even more, which ultimately made the PvP leaderboards a joke.

    PvP Noobs
    This group usually came in undergeared, didn't understand how to fight a clash, often ran off on their own (hence were easy pickings), had starter or low end pets, and generally hurt their team instead of helping. Because of their freshness in PvP, these players clearly didn't understand how to fight in a group and generally led to team wipes in clashes. Some of these players kept at it without ever improving, many quit PvP altogether, and a handful joined up with high-powered PvP guilds for protection and typically turned into one of the KDR Obsessed players.

    Casual PvPers
    This group was usually not the most skilled, but enjoyed joining PvP matches for the camaraderie, were usually pleasant, friendly players, and half the time wound up staying in PvP rooms to chat (weird, I know). You would know what you were joining the moment you entered the room and got a bunch of friend requests, private messages and a fully spammed out chat. Matches with this group usually devolved into a 1v1 room and someone free-flagging with the rest standing around and talking about various topics, usually nothing relevant to the game. A pleasant group, but generally not what you wanted in a PvP match.

    Flaggers
    This type of player went for the flags immediately. Rarely spoke, didn't kill anything and was only there for flags. This is the type that would end 1v1 matches prematurely, even though everyone in the room would say wait! While there was nothing inherently wrong with this player, it usually meant that you were clashing 4v5, and that your time in the room was going to be limited by however long it took to deliver all flags. I suspect that this group is what caused the free-flagging phenomenon, since it became apparent that to get onto the leaderboard, you needed to get 10k flags, and since everyone else was doing it, many rooms just turned into free flag rooms.

    Guild Groupies
    This is the group that typically responded to the KDR Obsessed calls for support. This is the player that would join your team and not participate in clashes because they wouldn't kill guildies. Worse, these are also the players that joined, died, and never respawned or respawned and never left the room. Ultimately, these turned into the spot blockers that we all loathe these days.


    Unfortunately, the Friendly Pro's have become a very small population in the game, and with their decline, PvP in this game has devolved into gank rooms. There are still a bunch of very respectable players that PvP, but they are the clear minority and the majority that are left over from the early days seem to have a win at all costs mentality. This behavior is the source of all the "PvP Drama".

    To be honest, I don't think that there is anything that can be done to improve the situation. As long as people are obsessed with kills, KDR, flag count, guild wars, etc., this can never change without fundamental changes to how PvP is structured. Until STS makes a change to the basic mechanics of PvP, and introduces two different rooms, one where players and teams are completely anonymous (ie., no names, you can't choose your team, auto-rebalancing, etc.) and another room where it is invite-only, our current brand of PvP will remain.
    Nothing more then the treuth


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    Quote Originally Posted by GoodSyntax View Post
    I stopped PvP many seasons ago (back when Nordr first came out).

    To be honest, I found that there were several types of PvPers:

    Friendly Pro's
    This group not only enjoyed PvP, but wanted to build friendships, wanted to improve their skills, was willing to fight or team with anybody, was willing to teach and rarely, if ever, talked trash. At the time, this was a large group, and they were loosely connected in that they respected each other and often balanced out teams simply to enjoy a good fight. This was the group that generally kept PvP matches fun and exciting.

    KDR Obsessed
    This group only cared about their KDR. This was the group that usually joined with a pack of Warriors, or always joined the team with more players. You could find this type of player spawn farming, hunting exclusively in packs, killing the winner of 1v1 fights, etc., These players were quick to talk trash when they were winning and were equally quick to call in guildmates/friends to stack the deck if they got killed (didn't matter if they lost in a 1v1 or a clash) or thought they could have lost in a battle. Many of these players turned to kill farming to pad their stats out even more, which ultimately made the PvP leaderboards a joke.

    PvP Noobs
    This group usually came in undergeared, didn't understand how to fight a clash, often ran off on their own (hence were easy pickings), had starter or low end pets, and generally hurt their team instead of helping. Because of their freshness in PvP, these players clearly didn't understand how to fight in a group and generally led to team wipes in clashes. Some of these players kept at it without ever improving, many quit PvP altogether, and a handful joined up with high-powered PvP guilds for protection and typically turned into one of the KDR Obsessed players.

    Casual PvPers
    This group was usually not the most skilled, but enjoyed joining PvP matches for the camaraderie, were usually pleasant, friendly players, and half the time wound up staying in PvP rooms to chat (weird, I know). You would know what you were joining the moment you entered the room and got a bunch of friend requests, private messages and a fully spammed out chat. Matches with this group usually devolved into a 1v1 room and someone free-flagging with the rest standing around and talking about various topics, usually nothing relevant to the game. A pleasant group, but generally not what you wanted in a PvP match.

    Flaggers
    This type of player went for the flags immediately. Rarely spoke, didn't kill anything and was only there for flags. This is the type that would end 1v1 matches prematurely, even though everyone in the room would say wait! While there was nothing inherently wrong with this player, it usually meant that you were clashing 4v5, and that your time in the room was going to be limited by however long it took to deliver all flags. I suspect that this group is what caused the free-flagging phenomenon, since it became apparent that to get onto the leaderboard, you needed to get 10k flags, and since everyone else was doing it, many rooms just turned into free flag rooms.

    Guild Groupies
    This is the group that typically responded to the KDR Obsessed calls for support. This is the player that would join your team and not participate in clashes because they wouldn't kill guildies. Worse, these are also the players that joined, died, and never respawned or respawned and never left the room. Ultimately, these turned into the spot blockers that we all loathe these days.


    Unfortunately, the Friendly Pro's have become a very small population in the game, and with their decline, PvP in this game has devolved into gank rooms. There are still a bunch of very respectable players that PvP, but they are the clear minority and the majority that are left over from the early days seem to have a win at all costs mentality. This behavior is the source of all the "PvP Drama".

    To be honest, I don't think that there is anything that can be done to improve the situation. As long as people are obsessed with kills, KDR, flag count, guild wars, etc., this can never change without fundamental changes to how PvP is structured. Until STS makes a change to the basic mechanics of PvP, and introduces two different rooms, one where players and teams are completely anonymous (ie., no names, you can't choose your team, auto-rebalancing, etc.) and another room where it is invite-only, our current brand of PvP will remain.
    Yeah, and the best part pvp was fairer than what it is atm at end gaming. Miss those fair days but now the challenge...wow, lol.

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    I never have tried end game PvP becuase I have never been able to fund a top geared player.
    Back when the Nordr expansion came out, I made a top geared rogue twink. Back then, there were far viewer twinks and many of them were undergeared/ had little experience. I really enjoyed it and never turned down an opportunity to 1v1 anyone. I was so succesful that i managed to get a 756/8 KDR. Never once did I gang or ever got ganged. I eventually got bored with PvP and focused more on end game Pve. About a year later, I decided to try PvP again for fun and made a same lvl as earlier top geared rogue (didn't use an arcane pet). Anyway, I was shocked at how much things had changed. I was constantly getting ganged and there was trash talk every where I went. I was barely able to maintain a 2:1 KDR even though I had the best gear for my lvl. Eventually I got so frustrated I quit PvP for good and now only play for events/ Pve. Pvp is no longer fun at twink lvls, and I'm guessing end game because it's gang or be ganged. It blows my mind how friendly and fun PvP used to be and now is so hostile it shocks me that there are actual people behind those toons. Anyway, I completly agree with your frustrations with PvP Raw, but I think it may be too late to change as there are just too many players that abuse the system.

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